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[goldlion054]

Only difference about Katrina and this is the refs won't bail them out anymore.

I'll believe it when I see it.

 

[squicken]

Fisher is on the Competition Committee, so he's seen all the evidence. But he's also long time bros with Williams. Anyway, cover up?

When I asked Fisher why his friend Williams had lost his way by behaving so terribly in New Orleans, the coach offered a lengthy and cryptic response:

"There's a great deal of information out there that we will never know," Fisher said. "And so I can't really comment on the specifics of that, and place blame on anybody. This was a very extensive investigation. And there's a lot out there that I would assume will not be disclosed.

"So I think I have to reserve comment on that. Because I know that never at any time as far as I've been with him (did Williams) disrespect this game, from the standpoint of you try to hurt someone on purpose.

"So I think there's a lot out there that probably will be locked up in a drawer someplace."

Read more: http://www.stltoday.com/sports/colu...d48-5ceb-b2ec-1d74c1231abf.html#ixzz1pp4Fdngm

edit: They aren't going to have an official DC? It will be a collective effort?

"I'm not going to name a defensive coordinator. Most likely it will be a collective effort. But we have a lot of things we have to sort out as you can imagine."

"I'll remind you that the playbook that Gregg has, originated in my office. So I have a pretty good feel for the defense," Fisher said. "At this point, I'm not at liberty to say who's going to make the calls and the decisions, but it'll get done. It'll get done effectively."

Williams was Fisher's defensive coordinator for four seasons, from 1997 through 2000, when Fisher was head coach of the Oilers-Titans. Cecil was Fisher's last defensive coordinator in Tennessee, running the Titans' defense in 2009-'10. Interestingly, Fisher fired Cecil after the 2010 season, before Fisher and the Titans decided to part ways. And the defensive staff that will be asked to carry the load includes linebackers coach Blake Williams, who is Williams' son.

Read more: http://www.stltoday.com/sports/foot...7d6-55ce-8ba3-5e92ac72ebd6.html#ixzz1pp5VQlTc

God Chuck Cecil as part of the braintrust ugh. But if he, Fisher, and McGinnis are all collectively running the defense, then doesn't that mean the offense is basically left up to

 

[squicken]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=36245675&postcount=18664

Re-posting on the new page so the morning crew can see it and not wait around



With the first pick of the 2nd Round, the Rams select Stephen Hill, WR, Georgia Tech

In their quest to do nothing to help the offense in 2012, and able to get clear of Sam Bradford's giant rookie contract after the season, the Rams proceed with their own QB exit strategy. No player selected in the first two rounds will be less prepared to play his position in 2012 than Hill, but his potential is enormous. With a good coaching staff, he has the explosiveness, size and speed to be an elite WR in a couple of years. Much like the selection of Robert Quinn in Round #1 of 2011, Hill is a very raw player with a very high ceiling. Also like Quinn, he has a very low floor, and could flame out very quickly if he is unable to correct his issues with route running and drops, or transition from a college option offense to the rather elaborate digit system run by offensive coordinator Brian Schottenheimer. Also like Quinn, maturity issues are a concern. All that said, I'd be super excited if he was available here

 

[jbug617]

What did Sapp say that pissed Shockey off?

Sapp called him the snitch in Bounty Gate

 

[overcast]

The Rams say they had minimal interest in Tebow, and were trying to see what the market would free up as far as backups once he got traded. And though I don't believe them, they have been desperately searching for a backup. They've had contact or visits with 5 guys and haven't landed a single one. So it's ever so slightly plausible that they aren't lying.

With FA, I said earlier it was a tactical error on Fisher's part. He clearly has final say, and put on the press for Finnegan, when he should have realized Finnegan would have waited, and pursued one of the WRs. Getting Meachem or Manningham was going to take overpaying, since the Rams suck, and no one wants to play there. That and Fisher getting blindsided by Williams are blemishes on his tenure.

As far as Blackmon, it wouldn't upset me if they took him, though I just don't think he'll ever be a true #1. Can you really draft a guy #6 overall if you don't think he'll be an elite player at his position? It's very much like the Chris Long pick where you draft a safe player at a need position, but with a limited ceiling.

I hope, but also think, the Browns take Tannehill. So the Rams should have a choice on Richardson or Blackmon. If they keep it, as much as I hate taking RBs first round, at least Richardson is supposed to be a special player. SJAX will still get his carries, but he's long since been a home run threat. And his current usefulness on 3rd down is limited.

If I had to wager on it, I think they trade down again. Tell me Cincy wouldn't be a lot more dangerous with Richardson at RB? Gresham, Richardson, and Green? That's fucking stacked

Yeah, definitely a Fisher decision. Not a good one. Feels a LOT like Spags. Scary..

I can see what you're saying about Blackmon, I also don't like him being 6'1. Supposedly he is quite the athlete though. I would want Richardson if he was available, as weird as that may be. I think trading down is the best option as well.

I hope Fisher has more say on offense than fucking Schottenheimer.

 

[Drakeon]

Yeah, definitely a Fisher decision. Not a good one. Feels a LOT like Spags. Scary..

I can see what you're saying about Blackmon, I also don't like him being 6'1. Supposedly he is quite the athlete though. I would want Richardson if he was available, as weird as that may be. I think trading down is the best option as well.

I hope Fisher has more say on offense than fucking Schottenheimer.

I totally forgot you guys hired schottenheimer. Holy shit, rams are going to be a shitshow this year too.

 

[firen]

Alex Smith intervew:










lololol @ some of those responses. harbs has taught alex well! I LOVE YOU ALEX!!!

 

[ThatCrazyGuy]

The lack of care from Payton and Loomis when told that the league was investigation is either an indication that they didn't think it was a big deal or were just brazen idiots.

Saints fans should be pissed off at their FO and coaching staff for bringing this down on their team rather than on the league office.

part of me thinks maybe they didn't think it was a big deal. Remember a lot of players making light of the situation when the story first broke. Some were like whatever, it happens.

but mostly they were being idiots I think. Or probably arrogant. The lying brought the hammer down more than the act itself.

 

[Dutch Gronk]

Report: Jets promised Drew Stanton they wouldn’t add another QB

When free agent quarterback Drew Stanton signed with the Jets, he was penciled in as No. 2 on the depth chart. That lasted less than a week.

When the Jets traded for Tim Tebow, General Manager Mike Tannenbaum proclaimed Tebow the No. 2 quarterback. And according to Jason La Canfora of NFL Network, that directly contradicts what Tannenbaum promised Stanton — and that promise to Stanton was the primary reason he agreed to sign with the Jets.

“The person they just signed to be their No. 2 quarterback, Drew Stanton, he was promised by General Manager Mike Tannenbaum that they weren’t going to get any other quarterbacks, that they weren’t going to draft a quarterback or get a Tim Tebow,” La Canfora said on NFL Network. “That’s how they lured Stanton there, with the allure of ‘You’re our No. 2.’ There’s a very good chance Drew Stanton asks for his release or a trade.”

So Stanton will be the latest player to learn what many players have learned before: No one is promised a job in the NFL, and if you think you’ve been promised a job, your team will only keep that promise until the day they can get someone they think is better. The only thing that’s truly promised to a free agent is whatever money is fully guaranteed in his contract. Verbal promises are empty.

La Canfora also said that Mark Sanchez doesn’t want Tebow in New York. If the Jets return to Hard Knocks, the quarterback meetings promise to be awkward and fascinating.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...sed-drew-stanton-they-wouldnt-add-another-qb/

Oh you silly Jets.

 

[Brinbe]

Jest gonna Jest... And that last line is the bigger story, Sanchize knows he's already done.

 

[TheLegendary]

Oh you silly Jets.

So good.

 

[Bolt Vanderhuge]

So who's the biggest shit show in the AFC East at this point, Dolphins or Jets?

 

[Buckethead]

I don't think he was ever going to be a great to QB but goddamn if Drew Stanton hasn't gotten jobbed by every team he's ever played for.

Funny in the Pagliaccian sense of the word.

 

[red13th]

La Canfora also said that Mark Sanchez doesn’t want Tebow in New York.

lol really, I wonder why.
Not to sure what to wish for. That Tebow plays like shit so I don't feel bad for this trade, or that Tebow does well because I like him.

 

[Bolt Vanderhuge]

I don't think he was ever going to be a great to QB but goddamn if Drew Stanton hasn't gotten jobbed by every team he's ever played for.

Funny in the Pagliaccian sense of the word.

He should of gone to a Harbaugh. They've made making middling quarterbacks look like winners a calling card. I'd take him in Baltimore to back up Flacco for when that unibrow finally caves in his big, empty skull.

 

[Fatalah]

Sanchez will play better with Tebow lingering. It will keep Mark motivated and focused - dude has gotten lazy.

 

[truly101]

part of me thinks maybe they didn't think it was a big deal. Remember a lot of players making light of the situation when the story first broke. Some were like whatever, it happens.

but mostly they were being idiots I think. Or probably arrogant. The lying brought the hammer down more than the act itself.

This, I'm not mad at the league office at all. It sucks but its the bed the team made. If they admitted the bounties (might as well have, not like it helped the shitty defense anyway) then you get fines, lose a couple of draft picks, maybe some game suspensions but not a whole year.
But they lied, and they tried to make Goodell look like a fool. You knew he was going to make the Saints pay for that alone. It is what it is.

 

[talisayNon]

Tebowiites have flocked to TGG.com. fuk me

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

Round Two.

Vikings are next.

St. Louis (2-14) - squicken - WR - Stephen Hill - In their quest to do nothing to help the offense in 2012, and able to get clear of Sam Bradford's giant rookie contract after the season, the Rams proceed with their own QB exit strategy. No player selected in the first two rounds will be less prepared to play his position in 2012 than Hill, but his potential is enormous. With a good coaching staff, he has the explosiveness, size and speed to be an elite WR in a couple of years. Much like the selection of Robert Quinn in Round #1 of 2011, Hill is a very raw player with a very high ceiling. Also like Quinn, he has a very low floor, and could flame out very quickly if he is unable to correct his issues with route running and drops, or transition from a college option offense to the rather elaborate digit system run by offensive coordinator Brian Schottenheimer. Also like Quinn, maturity issues are a concern. All that said, I'd be super excited if he was available here.

Indianapolis (2-14) - LukeSmith, Narag (skipped) LJ11 - CB - Stephon H
Gilmore - It'll be a small miracle if he gets here, I know they need offensive weapons and some linemen, but he's by far the best player. Shutdown Sam Watkins, can run, and one of the best corners. In reality he'll never be here.

Minnesota (3-13) - Slo -

Tampa Bay (4-12) - I H8 Memes -

Cleveland (4-12) - Wes, hiryu -

Jacksonville (5-11) - Tamanon -

St. Louis (2-14) - squicken -

Carolina (6-10) - Bowser -

Buffalo (6-10) - LJ11 -

Miami (6-10) - Junie12 -

Seattle (7-9) - Canuck76, Bluemax -

Kansas City (7-9) - Futurevoid -

Dallas (8-8) - Sviatoslav -

Philadelphia (8-8) - yankeehater, Brinbe, JABEE -

New York Jets (8-8) - darkside31337, Fatalah -

New England (13-3) - Dutch Patriot, Alligatorjandro, Case, ActStriker, Bread -

San Diego (8-8) - Nightz -

Chicago (8-8) - yacobod, cuevas, PhD. -

Philadelphia (8-8) - yankeehater, Brinbe, JABEE -

Tennessee (9-7) - MOB and sf2fanatic -

Cincinnati (9-7) - eznark - DT - Devon Still -

Detroit (10-6) - Doorman, goldlion054, Plinko, beast786, Agent Icebeezy, PhoenixDark -

Atlanta (10-6) - DCX, RBH

Pittsburgh (12-4) - DeaconKnowledge, chuckddd, AngmarsKing701 -

Denver (8-8) - Godslay - DT - Jerrel Worthy -

Houston (10-6) - Vyer -

New Orleans - (PICK REMOVED)

Green Bay (15-1) - eznark, Buckethead, mastershake, TheLegendary, brentech, Greg, wienke -

Baltimore (12-4) - BaltimoreLarry, Nakazato -

San Francisco* (13-3) - methodman, FrenchMovieTheme, LevelNth -

New England (13-3) - Dutch Patriot, Alligatorjandro, Case, ActStriker, Bread -

New York Giants* (9-7) - Futurevoid, Wellington, Striker, BigAT, The Frankman

On the clock - Vikings. Cutoff - 3PM

 

[Fatalah]

Tebowiites have flocked to TGG.com. fuk me

Tailored Graphics Global? Say it ain't so!

DeaconKnowledge - I'm a Jets fan. Usually in NBA GAF, but visit here on occasion.

 

[ActStriker]

Lord Brady restructured his contract to save the Pats $7 million against this year's salary cap

http://articles.boston.com/2012-03-21/sports/31221103_1_salary-cap-cap-number-tom-brady

 

[darkside31337]

Lol Sanchez already bitching already. For once in his life Sanchez will actually have to outplay somebody to keep his job. Welcome to the NFL.

I think the thing that annoys me the most is the overvaluation of a 4th round pick. Jets fans are so damn delusional, a bunch of Kiper sheep really.

Does a 4th round pick help? Sure you can get a decent backup at that round. But all you have to do is take a cursory look at the last 10 drafts and see that 4th round picks are not going to get you even NFL starters on any kind of consistent basis. Jets have had 46 fouth round picks as a franchise and only 1, Leon Washington, has ever made the pro bowl. The overwhelming majority of them were never starters for any team.

And Drew Stanton got his feelings hurt. Oh the travesty.

 

[jmdajr]

So it's official huh. Still surprised Tebow didn't go back home.

Guess he wants a "new environment."

When does Hardknocks start?

 

[LegendofJoe]

I missed the first pick dammit, glad we're doing a second round.

If we really intend to implement some 3-4 schemes this year I'm thinking it might be smart for us to go after the best OLB available. We could also use some help at the Guard and Cornerback positions. Luckily, the 2nd round is pretty deep talent wise when it comes to outside linebackers and cornerbacks. I like Bruce Irvin and Shea McClellin the most at OLB. I like Stephon Gilmore and Josh Robinson at CB. But what do you think Bowser and Cleveland?

 

[BigAT]

Lol Sanchez already bitching already. For once in his life Sanchez will actually have to outplay somebody to keep his job. Welcome to the NFL.

I think the thing that annoys me the most is the overvaluation of a 4th round pick. Jets fans are so damn delusional, a bunch of Kiper sheep really.

Does a 4th round pick help? Sure you can get a decent backup at that round. But all you have to do is take a cursory look at the last 10 drafts and see that 4th round picks are not going to get you even NFL starters on any kind of consistent basis. Jets have had 46 fouth round picks as a franchise and only 1, Leon Washington, has ever made the pro bowl. The overwhelming majority of them were never starters for any team.

And Drew Stanton got his feelings hurt. Oh the travesty.

Just because the Jets draft like shit year in and year out doesn't mean there isn't value to be had in the fourth. There are definitely starters to be found there and at the very least, high quality backups. Depth is extremely important in a league where injuries are something to be expected.

I would be pissed if the Giants ever spent a 4th and a 6th on a backup QB or gimmick player. I would be even more furious if they lost a 4th and a 6th and then had to pay the player a relatively high salary in addition to giving up draft picks.

 

[talisayNon]

Lol Sanchez already bitching already. For once in his life Sanchez will actually have to outplay somebody to keep his job. Welcome to the NFL.

I think the thing that annoys me the most is the overvaluation of a 4th round pick. Jets fans are so damn delusional, a bunch of Kiper sheep really.

Does a 4th round pick help? Sure you can get a decent backup at that round. But all you have to do is take a cursory look at the last 10 drafts and see that 4th round picks are not going to get you even NFL starters on any kind of consistent basis. Jets have had 46 fouth round picks as a franchise and only 1, Leon Washington, has ever made the pro bowl. The overwhelming majority of them were never starters for any team.

And Drew Stanton got his feelings hurt. Oh the travesty.

Lets start with you giving me a list of 4th round draft picks the Jets have made since 2004, troll.

 

[Fox318]

Lets start with you giving me a list of 4th round draft picks the Jets have made since 2004, troll.

2004:Jerricho Cotchery
2004:Adrian Jones
2005:Kerry Rhodes
2006:Brad Smith
2006:Leon Washington
2008wight Lowery
2010:Joe McKnight
2011:Bilal Powell

 

[red13th]

So it's official huh. Still surprised Tebow didn't go back home.

Guess he wants a "new environment."

He denied that he had a say on where he would be traded.

 

[hiryu]

No way the Browns draft Tanneheil at 4. Heckert does not have a history of reaching on picks. The pick will either be Clairborne, Richardson, Blackmon, or a trade back a few spots. I'm hoping for Richardson or Blackmon.

I'd really like Blackmon at 4, Martin at 22 or 37 and a RT in the first 3 picks.

 

[jmdajr]

He denied that he had a say on where he would be traded.

I see. So Jets just gave Broncos a better deal? Anyone know what the Jags offered?

edit: Listening to radio, supposedly Jags didn't REALLY want Timmy. The coach didn't want him, but the owner knew it would put butts in seats.

 

[Fox318]

I see. So Jets just gave Broncos a better deal? Anyone know what the Jags offered?

Higher 4th round pick and $5 million cash for Tebow contract.

 

[darkside31337]

Just because the Jets draft like shit year in and year out doesn't mean there isn't value to be had in the fourth. There are definitely starters to be found there and at the very least, high quality backups. Depth is extremely important in a league where injuries are something to be expected.

I would be pissed if the Giants ever spent a 4th and a 6th on a backup QB or gimmick player. I would be even more furious if they lost a 4th and a 6th and then had to pay the player a relatively high salary in addition to giving up draft picks.

2011 - James Brewer
2010 - Philip Dilliard
2009 - Andre Brown
2008 - Bryan Kehl
2007 - Zak DeOssie
2006 - Barry Cofield, Guy Whimper
2005 - Brandon Jacobs
2004 - Reggie Torbor
2003 - Rod Babers
2002 - N/A
2001 - Cedric Scott, Jesse Palmer

So at least the last time they spent a 4th round pick he ended up on the Bachelor. Tebow has already gone on the record saying he's never doing that shit. So already better.

 

[jmdajr]

Interesting comments by Joe Nammeth on the whole deal. Sounds right to me though.

 

[Futurevoid]

Just because the Jets draft like shit year in and year out doesn't mean there isn't value to be had in the fourth.

Brandon Jacobs, Barry Cofield and even Reggie Torbor - a depth player who made noise in the playoffs and helped the Giants in their Super Bowl run in '07 come to mind. All fourth rounders.

2011 - James Brewer
2010 - Philip Dilliard
2009 - Andre Brown
2008 - Bryan Kehl
2007 - Zak DeOssie
2006 - Barry Cofield, Guy Whimper
2005 - Brandon Jacobs
2004 - Reggie Torbor
2003 - Rod Babers
2002 - N/A
2001 - Cedric Scott, Jesse Palmer

In ten years the Giants grabbed two starters, their entrenched long snapper (DeOssie), a possible replacement for McKenzie in a developmental player like James Brewer and depth guys like Reggie Torbor and Guy Whimper on the offensive line. Oh yeah and Andre Brown is on the teams practice squad and may move into the lineup now with Brandon Jacobs release.

Yep, no value at all. At this point, I have to wonder if you're just trolling or you really don't fundamentally understand the purpose of late round picks and how good/successful teams use them.

 

[yankeehater]

Interesting comments by Joe Nammeth on the whole deal.

I thought he sounded like such an asshole this morning. Why the fuck does he feel the need to give his opinion on every move the Jets make. He isnt the GM, hi ass isnt on the line, he comes out and says he woudlnt have done this or that, but what moves would he make then? It is easy to say you are against a move, if he is right he looks like he knows better, and if he is wrong no one will call him on it because no one cares what he thinks.

 

[jmdajr]

I thought he sounded like such an asshole this morning. Why the fuck does he feel the need to give his opinion on every move the Jets make. He isnt the GM, hi ass isnt on the line, he comes out and says he woudlnt have done this or that, but what moves would he make then? It is easy to say you are against a move, if he is right he looks like he knows better, and if he is wrong no one will call him on it because no one cares what he thinks.

I didn't know he was that involved. So what is he doing these days? Is he rich? Back then you didn't get paid all that much.

 

[darkside31337]

I thought he sounded like such an asshole this morning. Why the fuck does he feel the need to give his opinion on every move the Jets make. He isnt the GM, hi ass isnt on the line, he comes out and says he woudlnt have done this or that, but what moves would he make then? It is easy to say you are against a move, if he is right he looks like he knows better, and if he is wrong no one will call him on it because no one cares what he thinks.

He's just one of the old players who can't let it go. Everything still revolves around him in his own world.

I honestly have no idea why anybody even cares what that hack has to say. One of the most overrated players in the history of the NFL.

 

[Futurevoid]

I honestly have no idea why anybody even cares what that hack has to say. One of the most overrated players in the history of the NFL.

...and amusingly the only QB who's ever taken the Jets anywhere.

 

[ZZMitch]

I would be pretty happy if I was a Jets fan. You traded two relatively late picks for a QB that led his team into the divisional round of the Playoffs after taking over a 1-4 team in his first year as a full time starter. Say what you want about his abilities or whatever, but last year still happened. I think he is worth that trade.

 

[darkside31337]

...and amusingly the only QB who's ever taken the Jets anywhere.

He didn't take the Jets anywhere. You'd think as a Giants fan you would understand the concept of a football team carrying your garbage QB to a championship.

 

[JaseMath]

Higher 4th round pick and $5 million cash for Tebow contract.

I thought the Jets offered a 4th and 6th round and $2.5 mil where the Jags offered a higher 4th round and $3 mil. If that's the case, then the Jags had the better deal. Either way, I don't know why it's being spun out of the Broncos camp that Tim had a say in the matter. He himself said he was just "told where to go."

 

[Futurevoid]

He didn't take the Jets anywhere.

Ok then. Enjoy. I don't even see a point in responding to nonsense.

You'd think as a Giants fan you would understand the concept of a football team carrying your garbage QB to a championship.

:jnc :jnc :jnc You're a fucking joke, dude.

 

[levious]

He didn't take the Jets anywhere. You'd think as a Giants fan you would understand the concept of a football team carrying your garbage QB to a championship.

are you basing this opinion on watching footage or just looking at his numbers and figuring out how much success he'd have in your fantasy league?

 

[Fox318]

He's just one of the old players who can't let it go. Everything still revolves around him in his own world.

I honestly have no idea why anybody even cares what that hack has to say. One of the most overrated players in the history of the NFL.

Joe is a sports analyst. Nobody says shit about Theisman.

 

[Dutch Gronk]

In ten years the Giants grabbed two starters, their entrenched long snapper (DeOssie), a possible replacement for McKenzie in a developmental player like James Brewer and depth guys like Reggie Torbor and Guy Whimper on the offensive line.

Yep, no value at all. At this point, I have to wonder if you're just trolling or you really don't fundamentally understand the purpose of late round picks and how good/successful teams use them.

2004 - Dexter Reid, Cedric Cobbs
2005 - James Sanders
2006 - Garrett Mills, Stephen Gostkowski
2007 - Kareem Brown
2008 - Jonathan Wilhite
2009 - Rich Ohrnberger
2010 - Aaron Hernandez
2011 - No picks

So the biggest names are Gostkowski, James Sanders and of course Aaron Hernandez. Plus when you look a little further you see that people like Jared Allen and Elvis Dumberville were also 4th rounders, so I think it's a fairly high price for the Tebow.

He didn't take the Jets anywhere. You'd think as a Giants fan you would understand the concept of a football team carrying your garbage QB to a championship.

Ghegheghe...

ELI SUCKS!

 

[Futurevoid]

Ghegheghe...

ELI SUCKS!

Shhh. He's garbage. It was the defensive line that completed the pass to Mario Manningham and rallied the team for 7 comeback victories during the season (most of them when the defense was shit) including the Super Bowl.

Anyways, moving from troll land and into news:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...ld-49ers-he-wants-more-than-larry-fitzgerald/

That’s the word out of San Francisco, where the 49ers had interest in signing Wallace until they found out how much money he wanted. Matt Barrows of the Sacramento Bee reports that Wallace wants a contract that surpasses the eight-year, $120 million deal that Larry Fitzgerald signed with the Cardinals.

Wide receivers can be funny in how they value themselves.

 

[eznark]

I love that the darkside downward spiral seems to have shifted into overdrive.

:jnc

 

[darkside31337]

I love that the darkside downward spiral seems to have shifted into overdrive.

Nah I'm cool with everything. Theres still months to go until even the preseason. Everybody has their own opinion on Tebow but really its just best to wait till everything shakes out.

 

[Bowser]

RE: Wallace's contract demands

LOL

 

[ActStriker]

:jnfuckingc at Mike Wallace's demands