I too find it funny how he confuses "popular" with "good"
Wii U Speculation Thread The Third: Casting Dreams in The Castle of Miyamoto
- Thread starter AceBandage
- Start date
I too find it funny how he confuses "popular" with "good"
Apophis2036
Banned
I understand that but we were expecting next gen third party games at 1080p full HD, and it seems the console cant even do current gen cross platform games at those settings.
For a console released in almost 2013 that is shocking imo, as i said if i can get a 360 for £100 by then (they are £150 brand new in the UK right now and i expect a price drop from both Sony and MS to combat Wii U), i wont be paying anymore than £200 for a system that plays multi platform games at exactly the same settings.
I would essentially be paying £250 to play and complete Pikman then be waiting years for the other big exclusives.
If it is £200 then my Wii U will be for Nintendo only games and i think it will be a while before we see a proper 3D Mario game, Zelda, Mario Kart and Smash Bros ...
Maybe my hopes were just too high but i fully expected them to make a system that could run current gen cross platform games like low to mid range PC versions (1080p / better framerates, textures, lighting, effects) and maybe next gen cross platform games at 720p.
An engine is more than graphics, but even so, it doesn't specify the resolution developers can choose. Sure there will be minimum hardware requirements, but that is moreso related to the technology generation (e.g. multicore/threaded CPU, DX11-compliant GPU).
they definitely deter
I can't play more than one level at a time!
Hopefully they patch in dual analog Circle Pad Pro support. That would be awesome.
Apophis2036
Banned
Yeah my bad was it not Samaritan that was leaked to be running on Wii U at GDC (i thought it ran on UE4, but your right its the latest version of UE3).
People on here were saying that it would require 2.5 terraFLOPs of computing power to run and the 360 is 0.25 terraFLOPs so you can imagine what kind of power increase most were expecting (10 times a 360) and now we find out it will be running cross platform games at exactly the same settings as PS360.
ShockingAlberto
Member
Get better at them.
radioheadrule83
Banned
I know you don't realise this, but this is absolute bollocks. We've heard something vaguely like this from one developer regarding one game they were already building for other platforms and got up and running on Wii U in a few weeks. I'm not even going to go further into why you're jumping the gun, as other people here can do that more effectively, and there's only 2 months until the truth will out anyway.
I don't think you'll be disappointed, based on what you've said. Although many developers may still choose 720p and maybe even sub HD if it means fancier effects..
Actually since bg is here and since we are talking about TFLOPs again, can i ask if the "AMD said that >1TFLOP" came from game.watch?
I tried to google it, but i only seem to find other places with GAF posters talking about it haha, and the way i read it, it distinctly says that the estimation is not from an AMD source?
The word they used throws me off a bit, so Dcharlie (or anybody else, really) might be able to confirm better, if it matters at all.
I tried to google it, but i only seem to find other places with GAF posters talking about it haha, and the way i read it, it distinctly says that the estimation is not from an AMD source?
The word they used throws me off a bit, so Dcharlie (or anybody else, really) might be able to confirm better, if it matters at all.
I think it was from the marketing division of AMD? I forget.
Apophis2036
Banned
Fair enought mate and i hope your right, im just so disappointed tbh if the Darksiders 2 theme continues.
I had envisaged playing all of my multi platform games looking like the PC versions on Wii U, with the added extra of two or three big Nintendo exclusives every year.
It now seems like it's going to be sitting gathering dust as soon as i complete the first party launch game and launch window game, which i don't mind, but only if it's £200 (im expecting £300 in the Uk).
I will not pay £300 just to play two games, esp when there is no proper Mario / Zelda / Metroid at launch and it will prob be Pikman and one of three Starfox / Donkey Kong / F - Zero as the 'launch window' game.
-Pyromaniac-
Member
I can't play any 3DS game that forces a stylus on you full time. I just can't do it. Fuck those zelda games that made you do it as well. TERRRRRRIBLE. Alternate control schemes should be mandatory for all games.
AceBandage
Banned
The Wii U version of DS2 will look like the PC version though.
IE, they'll both be lazy ports.
Just like the first DS.
Someone on the Kid Icarus thread asked me to post this here, so here you are:
I work at Target and the Nintendo rep came in today. We talked about Kid Icarus' sales for awhile and then he went on to say that Nintendo is preparing for a re-reveal of the Wii U and that it's name will almost CERTAINLY change. Like I said on the Uprising thread I have no idea how "in-the-know" this guy is, but I sure thought it was interesting how confident he was about it.
I work at Target and the Nintendo rep came in today. We talked about Kid Icarus' sales for awhile and then he went on to say that Nintendo is preparing for a re-reveal of the Wii U and that it's name will almost CERTAINLY change. Like I said on the Uprising thread I have no idea how "in-the-know" this guy is, but I sure thought it was interesting how confident he was about it.
Apophis2036
Banned
Im not greedy and im not talking BF3 Ultra PC version
, but multi platform games running at 1080p, 30 fps locked, improved textures and effects (even the equivalent of medium on a low to mid range gaming PC).I don't think that is too much to ask from a console launching in Nov / Dec 2012 tbh.
The thing im most annoyed about is that im going to have to fork out for a PS4 or 720 now to play multi platform games at PC settings.
Have tried playing PC exclusively but i miss the console exclusives too much and i thought this would finally be the generation we would at least get 1080p native as standard on every game.
I know Nintendo believe very strongly in the tactile superiority of buttons (and I feel similarly), but I'd like to see a new Nintendo game design based around the touch screen as the primary means of input on Wii U.
Since the screen is so much bigger than the DS, there's some very interesting potential.
Since the screen is so much bigger than the DS, there's some very interesting potential.
AceBandage
Banned
Ehhh, I wouldn't put TOO much faith in reps.
They know basically as much as we do.
Im not greedy and im not talking BF3 Ultra PC version
I don't think that is too much to ask from a console launching in Nov / Dec 2012 tbh.
The thing im most annoyed about is that im going to have to fork out for a PS4 or 720 now to play multi platform games at PC settings.
Have tried playing PC exclusively but i miss the console exclusives too much and i thought this would finally be the generation we would at least get 1080p native as standard on every game.
Just get a PC, because consoles will always be well below PCs. The Wii U IS capable of better effects, textures and resolution. That's not the problem with multiplatform games. It's the effort that developers put into the ports. Which is going to be minimal outside of a few games.
LOL yeah I know. I just thought I'd post it here to see what you guys thought about it.
What, why. Is it the same for you on DS?
I don't have a 3DS yet, just asking because i absolutely love stylus play on the DS.
Hrm, was it from the press release where they boasted about market-leading blabla, because it seems that was quoted in that article. The part that bgassassin once quoted in regard to the 1TFLOP in my eyes says that info is from a different source, while the google translate botched it and reads "[...] with AMD saying [...]" so that made me curious.
I might be seeing things though i have the biggest headache in history :3
It doesn't have to be radical, i would like 'Wii Universe', Wii was for the casuals now Wii Universe is for everyone !.
.
Wii Universe ? NO.
Super Wii FTW
AceBandage
Banned
Also, you can play Kid Icarus without the Stylus, if you want to.
If the Wii U GPU alone were capable of an honest teraflop, we'd be in good shape.
GameplayWhore
Member
Yeah, it's really important to note that for any console to match a truly high end PC in performance, it would have to draw an insane amount of power and therefore generate a prohibitive amount of heat, far too much to fit inside anything smaller than (as I was joking about yesterday) a microwave oven. Unless PC graphics cards somehow stop evolving, we are pretty much forever past the days where a console can possibly trump a desktop computer.
Yeah, as long as the PS3 and/or the Xbox 360 are sold in stores, the Wii U is likely to get up ports from them, even if it's closer in performance to the forthcoming consoles from Microsoft and Sony. It's just vastly cheaper to do it that way instead of to downport from a faster machine.
radioheadrule83
Banned
I'd love to see them get Draw Something on their app store. Drawing with my fingers on my phone is horrible (albeit amusing) - I bet we'd see some amazing stuff from a stylus version! It'd be so much fun with a gaming friends list too... A lot like swap note.
AceBandage
Banned
Oh JOY
Apophis2036
Banned
As i have said i have tried mate, i have played on consoles for over 25 years tho so it just doesn't feel 'right' and i would miss the big console exclusives (esp Nintendo's) far too much.
If i was Nintendo and i had at least 1 years head start on the 720 / PS4, i would be forcing third party developers to make every game they made for Wii U look dramatically better as it would be another hook for people to buy the system.
Im sure a lot of people would buy a Wii U just to play Assasins Creed 3, Farcry 3, Resi 6, Medal of Honor 2 and GTA 5 *IF* they looked a lot better compared to the PS360 versions and had extra features using the new controller.
Also regarding the PC version of DS2, you will always be able to crank the resolution up to 1080p no matter how lazy the port is and it will blow the 720p version away from clarity alone.
I wouldnt even care if they looked any better tbh, i just dont want my HDTV to have to stretch the image of my games by over twice the size which just shows off all the jaggies ect even more.
I beg of you Nintendo full 1080p HD for EVERY game as standard !
.I don't even know why i'm riding on the hypetrain with you guys, i won't even be able to afford the thing 'till kingdom comes *rollingonfloor....crying*
That said here's one more for PC+Nintendo, it's about the most reasonable thing (good thing Atlus never gets around to releasing Persona 5 to make me reconsider).
Honestly i don't get the preoccupation with res. What TV do you have that makes such a big difference between 720p with shittons of AA+AF and 1080.
It seems like a silly tallking point, where even graphic whores on pc don't make remotely the big fuss about it compared to consolites.
Is it because PS360 don't really AA+AF so the difference is more apparent?
AceBandage
Banned
As i have said i have tried mate, i have played on consoles for over 25 years tho so it just doesn't feel 'right' and i would miss the big console exclusives (esp Nintendo's) far too much.
If i was Nintendo and i had at least 1 years head start on the 720 / PS4, i would be forcing third party developers to make every game they made for Wii U look dramatically better as it would be another hook for people to buy the system.
Im sure a lot of people would buy a Wii U just to play Assasins Creed 3, Farcry 3, Resi 6, Medal of Honor 2 and GTA 5 *IF* they looked a lot better compared to the PS360 versions and had extra features using the new controller.
Also regarding the PC version of DS2, you will always be able to crank the resolution up to 1080p no matter how lazy the port is and it will blow the 720p version away from clarity alone.
I wouldnt even care if they looked any better tbh, i just dont want my HDTV to have to stretch the image of my games by over twice the size which just shows off all the jaggies ect even more.
I beg of you Nintendo full 1080p HD for EVERY game as standard !
Sadly (luckily?) that isn't an option for any one company.
radioheadrule83
Banned
I've grown to like the name Wii U... I was thinking, they'd probably have neat ways of working it into game titles... A party game called "U and Mii" for example, a buzz style quiz game or brain age puzzler called "U-reka", a sharing app called U Share, a chat app called U talk, a branding campaign that rolls a bunch of U <verb> statements up into one advertisement that closes on the words U play.
Or something like: U Play, Wii all Play. Wii U, only $249.99
I hope they've made a big thing of TV-less play and utility / functionality without using a TV generally, seamlessly jumping between... Because that really looks like a game changer to me.
If theyve got a new name I hope its a good one.
I hope so.
Relaunching the system with new branding could actually help shift a lot of people's perception. It's just a psychological thing, but it can go a long way.
If there's a new name, I expect we'll hear it in mid-late May, giving third parties enough time to adjust and update their marketing materials in advance of E3.
UDraw
But yeah, hopefully if there's new branding it's something that reflects the strongest points of the system.
Apophis2036
Banned
I understand 1080p full HD puts a far greater strain on the GPU but my Radeon HD 5670 can run 99% of multi platform games at 1080p and high settings @ 30 fps locked and it doesnt give off a lot of heat at all and is a pretty small card.
That GPU is available for £50 online now ...
For your second point -
Arent all multi platform games developed first on a workstation PC then 'downgraded' to consoles ?, thats why 360 games always look and run better than on PS3 because its so much more like a gaming PC, hardware wise.
If so then Wii U should be top of the chain and receive the least ammount of 'downgrades' when compared to PS360.
If its going to be a case of lazy developers then Nintendo shouldnt stand for it.
AceBandage
Banned
facepalm.jpg
Grampa Simpson
Banned
The rep wouldn't know, but he may have buddies that do. I'd give it slightly higher credibility than a poster here, but corporate directions can change daily so even if it were a highly likely thing today, it might not be a month from now.
GameplayWhore
Member
That's from this presentation, by the way. My currently standing suspicion (also based on that legendary AMD Engineer quote, whose origin is lost in the mists of time) is that Nintendo has been prodded by Epic towards being able to run the demo at 720p and that Epic will try to pretty Microsoft to get it running at 1080p. If they both end up at precisely these points, then we would have a situation, mind you, where the Wii U is much closer in performance to the next Xbox than it is to the 360, at least by that one particular metric.
The Radeon HD 5670 is also a lot slower than the Wii U is rumoured to be (at least in that FLOPS department, which is all we've really heard anything resembling word on).
AceBandage said:
Now behave. Always give the explicit reasons why somebody may be mistaken or erroneous with what they are saying. Always educate, never look down upon.
Apophis2036
Banned
I play on a 50" Samsung 1080p HDTV and when you compare lets say BF3 on 360 to the PC version with every graphical effect turned off but running at 1080p it looks like a different game.
It's twice the detail and sharpness, i understand not everyone cares, id say its the same difference from DVD to Blu Ray but i thought these new consoles would all be 1080p as standard esp as Reggie was going on and on about 1080p at last years E3 regarding Wii U, esp at the post interview with GTTV.
I actually think Nintendo has downgraded the hardware somewhere along the way this year, whether it was because of overheating (the V4 Dev kits were reported to be crashing due to heat ?) or cost but we have went from games looking like the Zelda tech demo and talk of a 'full HD experience' to Darksiders 2 looking exactly the same as it does on what will be last gens consoles.
Apophis2036
Banned
That's from this presentation, by the way. My currently standing suspicion (also based on that legendary AMD Engineer quote, whose origin is lost in the mists of time) is that Nintendo has been prodded by Epic towards being able to run the demo at 720p and that Epic will try to pretty Microsoft to get it running at 1080p. If they both end up at precisely these points, then we would have a situation, mind you, where the Wii U is much closer in performance to the next Xbox than it is to the 360, at least by that one particular metric.
The Radeon HD 5670 is also a lot slower than the Wii U is rumoured to be (at least in that FLOPS department, which is all we've really heard anything resembling word on).
Thanks for the info mate, more helpful than a facepalm lol
I was under the impression the 5670 was an awful out of date GPU that as i said is available for £50 in the UK so i imagine Nintendo could buy something similar in bulk for $30 a pop.
I have a GTX 550Ti now (£100 in the UK) and it can still only handle BF3 on medium at 1080p / 30fps, i think my expectations are just far too high for the next gen consoles, but thanks all for your input
I will continue reading until E3, keep the hype train going !!! choo choo.
GameplayWhore
Member
Ooooooh, I haven't heard that snippet about the V4 kits. Got a link for that? A downgrade is certainly not impossible. I'm not quite ready to believe it, but I'd like to hear when word broke of those stability issues.
Never trust PR. Most of the time they'll be telling half-truths or truths that don't pertain to what you're thinking. Supporting 1080p output is certainly quite different from rendering at 1080p.
Apophis2036
Banned
I read it in this thread mate, from one of the reliable guys who apparently leak info, not sure if it was Dev Kit 4 he said but there was defo talk of heat related problems in one of the dev kits.
Sorry i dont have a direct link
.AceBandage
Banned
The only overheating I've heard of where in the V2 kits.
We're unlikely to see either on Wii U near launch, because they're developing it for 3DS. Looks more like Paper Mario/TYD than SPM.
Twenty7KVN
Member
Don't be surprised if only a few xbox3/ps4 games don't run at 1080p.Devs are going to find a way to squeeze as much out of the systems while cutting back on things people don't notice.You really need to get off this full HD thing those are just buzz words Nintendo threw around because it sounds good,the system is capable of 1080p just don't hold your breath for 1080p at launch from 3rd parties,new hardware plus lazy devs = corners cut to get games out.
Twenty7KVN
Member
That doesn't mean they downgraded the hardware.Nintendo never really promised all this stuff you hoped for so i don't know why you're so disappointed.I read it in this thread mate, from one of the reliable guys who apparently leak info, not sure if it was Dev Kit 4 he said but there was defo talk of heat related problems in one of the dev kits.
Sorry i dont have a direct link
GameplayWhore
Member
Thanks for the info mate, more helpful than a facepalm lol
AceBandage is a good guy*. We just got a recent super influx of (no offense intended) Junior Members who aren't used to the particular conversational style of NeoGAF (you've been totally good with this, imho) and who tend more towards believing as truth every rumour of late they hear (which is understandable, but the presentation is often along the lines of that "When will this FUCKEN company learn?" meme). So people tend towards reactions of "Oh gawwwwd noobs!".
As I mentioned earlier, the only rumours about the Wii U GPU have been concerning GFLOPS, which is only one of several important metrics. However, this is what we've heard here and there (none are actual quotes):
A) From an AMD engineer or a press release or something that we really need to track down again, "The Wii U GPU offers greater than 1 TFLOPS performance"
B) From ... somewhere, possibly wishful thinking, "The Wii U is expected to be good enough to run the Samaritan Demo at 720p" (this would put it around 1.11 TFLOPS)
C) Recently, like less than a week ago, somebody of import suggesting a particular RADEON series which happens to be ~960 GFLOPS (might've been the Radeon HD 4770, looking at Wikipedia now, but fook if I know!)
The Xbox 360's GPU does 240 GFLOPS. Your 5670 does 620 GFLOPS. In this particular metric, if the above rumours are true, then the Wii U's video chip in that specific metric would be between 4x and 4.63x the Xbox 360's Xenos chip's performance and between 1.55x and 1.79x your video card's performance.
My entire post, of course, falls completely apart were there a downgrade or had Nintendo not actually pursued a GPU of that general performance level. My intuition suggests they could reach that level and still stay within a very comfortable power/heat range, especially since they didn't supercharge the CPU.
* I assume guy.... I never checked under the kilt
AceBandage
Banned
Yeah, it's not anything against you in particular, Apo.
I'm just tired of explaining why you can't compare NewEgg prices for off the shelf parts to what will be in the Wii U.
I'm just tired of explaining why you can't compare NewEgg prices for off the shelf parts to what will be in the Wii U.
Grain of salt, but I love hearing things like this.
One of my most fervent wishes for this year is that Uprising does incredibly well to the point where Nintendo cannot help but realize that the Icarus needs a huge, epic, sprawling home console adventure - and that it deserves to take its rightful spot on the top shelf of Nintendo IPs, right alongside Mario, Zelda, and Metroid.
Apophis2036
Banned
I defo read it in this thread or maybe part 2 of the thread and i have only been reading since Jan / Feb this year so it was a long time after last June's E3.
I might have been way off the mark with Dev Kit 4 tho, as i said i think it was one of the main three or four (leakers) who was talking about it about a month ago.
I'd guess Dev Kit V2 or V3, either way it could have been downgraded from the Zelda tech demo which to the best of my knowledge was running at 1080p native.
To go from that to DS2 looking like a last gen console is very strange to me.
Anyway im prob 99% wrong, don't want to start a bad rumour, just my thoughts.
Maybe i saw too much in the Zelda demo, i just didnt think it would be possible on the PS360, same for the bird demo.
I just have to understand they have a budget they have to stick to and if it means all games are 720p instead of 1080 then so be it, im sure Nintendo games will look great whatever the HD resolution
.First time posting in this thread, always an enjoyable lurk.
About Nintendo's secrecy: from a PR perspective I suppose it's fine, but I don't see it as the Willy-Wonka-chocolate-factory type secrecy: that brilliant surprises are in store.
It's a frustrating coyness that I find is more due to a lack of confidence, like we saw this last year at E3 where Nintendo could hardly come out and just say anything concrete. It feels like the secrecy only surrounds the disappointing information. No fun in that.
About Nintendo's secrecy: from a PR perspective I suppose it's fine, but I don't see it as the Willy-Wonka-chocolate-factory type secrecy: that brilliant surprises are in store.
It's a frustrating coyness that I find is more due to a lack of confidence, like we saw this last year at E3 where Nintendo could hardly come out and just say anything concrete. It feels like the secrecy only surrounds the disappointing information. No fun in that.