CrazyDogg77
Member
Dude what's the point of this?
Family of Florida boy killed by Neighborhood Watch seeks arrest
- Thread starter Dram
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Dude what's the point of this?
His following the 'banning cycle' like the other brave martyrs before him.
Dreams-Visions
Member
Zimmerman's "black friend" is a fucking nutjob.
http://newsone.com/nation/nomul6/trayvon-martin-case-2/
My mind is blown.
http://newsone.com/nation/nomul6/trayvon-martin-case-2/
My mind is blown.
SirButterstick
Banned
I get a sense that this guy has been put up to this by the PR/damage control firm representing the PD. He's too . . . convenient.
Baconsammy
Banned
That elderly couple should sue the shit out of everyone that willfully endangered their lives. What happened to Trayvon doesn't make other acts of fucking stupidity ok.
empty vessel
Member
No, white people are. If you understand that what causes blacks to commit crimes disproportionately to whites is systemic in nature, and you also recognize that whites have the power within that system, then you must understand that it is whites who perpetuate black stereotypes. You can't have it both ways. Either blacks are responsible for their collective lot, including the higher rate at which they commit crimes, or they are not. If they are not, you cannot point your finger at black "culture" when trying to affix responsibility for white stereotypes about blacks. You are blaming the victim of white racism for white racism itself. Point your figure in the direction of American conservatives who steadfastly refuse to fix, and even promote, a system that victimizes people based on race.
Dreams-Visions
Member
I don't understand it, man. "coonass" is a term of endearment, anywhere in the world? and we should use that position to conclude that Zimmerman isn't a racist for saying it (if that's what he said)?
I gon ly dow now
Which one?
1) Walking home alone
2) Wearing a hoodie
3) Carrying skittles
I dunno, man - but perhaps you need to check with a shrink if you think any of these actions might or might not be justifiable in Zimmerman shooting him.
Or perhaps you should just cut the B.S. and just state that being black might or might not be justifiable in your twisted bigot mindset that someone deserves to be shot because of it.
Big Baybee
Member
Actually it is here. I'm from Louisiana, and the country/backwoods/cajun whites refer to themselves as coon asses. Quite common.
Dreams-Visions
Member
well shit. going to ly dow at the very notion.
(though still, it's not something said here in Florida. It was an epic stretch.)
Big Baybee
Member
Yea, its only a Louisiana thing, and obviously Zimmerman wouldn't be using coon in that context. Bullshit defense for his racism. That black dude is a sad individual.
Rice-Eater
Member
Gorechylde
Member
I've got a couple of issues with this case I'm hoping can get cleared up. Mainly Zimmerman's initial call to report Martin.
About 2 mins into the recording, Zimmerman says "he's running"(referring to Martin). Zimmerman stops his car and begins following Martin. The operator asks Zimmerman if he is following Martin. Zimmerman says "yes". The dispatcher tells Zimmerman "We don't need you to do that", to which Zimmerman replies "Ok". Now, to my ears, it sounds like Zimmerman breaks off his pursuit. His breathing steadies and he continues giving the dispatcher his personal info and a description of his location. I don't see him being able to run and talk steadily at the same time as I can't do that. Zimmerman states that he is returning to his SUV and requests the dispatcher have the patrolmen meet him there. Now, as he is walking back to his SUV, the dispatcher asks him his address. Zimmerman starts to give the dispatcher his address and suddenly stops, stating "Oh crap, I don't want to give it all out. I don't know where this kid is."
Zimmerman hangs up the phone shortly after that exchange. Was that the only call Zimmerman made to the police that night? I've looked around and it seems the next call in the sequence of events is the neighbor reporting the screaming outside and the gunshot that followed. If so, do we know how much time elapsed between the end of Zimmerman's call and the beginning of the neighbor's call?
From Zimmerman's call, it sounds like he lost Martin and began returning to his vehicle. If that is the case, how did they end up running into each other again? Where did they encounter each other the second time? Were there any witnesses to the second encounter, if indeed there were 2 separate encounters, that saw what transpired prior to the scuffle that allegedly left Zimmerman with a bloody nose and the lacerations to the back of his head?(Did Zimmerman spot Martin and give chase again or did Martin double back and approach Zimmerman)?
Sorry, I have alot of questions and haven't been able to find any difinitive answers.
About 2 mins into the recording, Zimmerman says "he's running"(referring to Martin). Zimmerman stops his car and begins following Martin. The operator asks Zimmerman if he is following Martin. Zimmerman says "yes". The dispatcher tells Zimmerman "We don't need you to do that", to which Zimmerman replies "Ok". Now, to my ears, it sounds like Zimmerman breaks off his pursuit. His breathing steadies and he continues giving the dispatcher his personal info and a description of his location. I don't see him being able to run and talk steadily at the same time as I can't do that. Zimmerman states that he is returning to his SUV and requests the dispatcher have the patrolmen meet him there. Now, as he is walking back to his SUV, the dispatcher asks him his address. Zimmerman starts to give the dispatcher his address and suddenly stops, stating "Oh crap, I don't want to give it all out. I don't know where this kid is."
Zimmerman hangs up the phone shortly after that exchange. Was that the only call Zimmerman made to the police that night? I've looked around and it seems the next call in the sequence of events is the neighbor reporting the screaming outside and the gunshot that followed. If so, do we know how much time elapsed between the end of Zimmerman's call and the beginning of the neighbor's call?
From Zimmerman's call, it sounds like he lost Martin and began returning to his vehicle. If that is the case, how did they end up running into each other again? Where did they encounter each other the second time? Were there any witnesses to the second encounter, if indeed there were 2 separate encounters, that saw what transpired prior to the scuffle that allegedly left Zimmerman with a bloody nose and the lacerations to the back of his head?(Did Zimmerman spot Martin and give chase again or did Martin double back and approach Zimmerman)?
Sorry, I have alot of questions and haven't been able to find any difinitive answers.
I can confirm this. But this is very much southern Louisiana colloquial slang and would not apply in this situation to my knowledge. That said, it's still used in a derisive fashion more oft than not.
Saint Gregory
Member
Trayvon was also on a phone call at the time and if the reports are to be believed his girlfriend on the other end of the call heard Zimmerman confront him.
Now for my question. Why in the world would a scared 17 year-old in an unfamiliar neighborhood being chased by a strange man who was following him in an SUV do this?
BruiserBear
Banned
This is where I'm at with it.
So many people pushing their own agenda's upon this story, looking for an opportunity to make a bigger argument, even when it has nothing to do with this situation that unfolded in Florida. So irritating to watch, and it makes the rational part of my brain hurt badly.
Dreams-Visions
Member
to be completely objective (as much as I can be in this story): I think it's more likely than not that this dude is found not guilty if it goes to trial. Not because I think he's innocent, but because the burden of proof is high and the police fucked this investigation from the very beginning. The more we find out about what the police refused to do, the sadder it becomes. I truly feel like critical due dilligence wasn't done, and that will be used to create just enough "reasonable doubt" to get him to walk.
We won't get definitive answers to your questions because there are no witnesses that saw the entire drama unfold. Just people who saw bits and pieces. Even though I feel like we can reasonably assemble a timeline that infers guilt, there's enough reason for doubt for him to walk.
That's been my opinion since the first day we talked about this case. When you think back to how significant police misconduct was in the OJ Simpson case (and many others, certainly)...and how much more significant it was here...I think there is going to be a very sad outcome in this case. That's what my objective side tells me.
I see politicians have gotten involved for God knows what reason, but most here aren't pushing an agenda or making a bigger argument. People here are frustrated that with all the shadiness and misconduct surrounding this investigation, an injustice is happening. Outrage is warranted on account of misconduct alone.
Dude Abides
Banned
To find out why he was being followed?
Open Source
Banned
It's not necessarily one or the other. There are many ethnic groups that suffer disproportionately large poverty rates but that don't have the same violent crime rates and that don't have the pervasive "thug" subculture.
At the same time, any group that was displaced and enslaved is going to have a hard time of things even generations later, so I certainly understand that factor. I'm certainly not saying that white racism and institutional racism against blacks don't exist - they have diminished but have not been eradicated yet.
I don't think it's helpful, though, to attribute racism as a motive in this case until the facts come out in an investigation and potential court case. The eagerness to do so is, I think, counterproductive, especially when it turns out not to be true, as in the Duke lacrosse case.
I fear the worst from both sides if he walks.
Saint Gregory
Member
This all got really ugly and political after President Obama decided to weigh in on the case. He's definitely my guy but I really wish sometimes that he would think these things through before getting involved. He had to know that the moment he said anything other than "we should step back and let the authorities handle this situation" Trayvon was going to become a politcal football and get his name dragged through the mud just like every unfortunate person he connects himself to... ever.
God I hate modern politics
We must live in vastly different realities. I'm 6'6', weigh 250lbs and consider myself to be very brave but there's no way I'd do something like that in my own neighborhood, much less some place I wasn't familiar with.
BruiserBear
Banned
You could have just said "we don't know what happened right after Zimmerman hung up the phone", since that is the correct answer to his question.
All we do know is that after he hung up that phone, within a minute or two there was a physical altercation with Trayvon, and then the gunshot rang out.
I think a lot of people weighing in on this have an agenda. Some are more sinister than others, but all look equally silly in my eyes when they're pushing it.
Open Source
Banned
empty vessel
Member
Zimmerman almost certainly went looking for Martin after the call. He initially agreed to meet police officers by the mailboxes at the request of the operator, but soon changes his mind and instead asks that the police call him when he gets there. This is because he had formed an intent to look for Martin and so did not know where he would be when police arrived.
Yeah, I think he'll walk too, if this goes to trial. I just don't understand why the police botched this case so badly. Is it because Zimmerman has contacts in the police? I mean he did try to become a police officer, and his father was a judge. So I'm wondering if they knew him and that's why they covered for him.
DonasaurusRex
Online Ho Champ
This all got really ugly and political after President Obama decided to weigh in on the case. He's definitely my guy but I really wish sometimes that he would think these things through before getting involved. He had to know that the moment he said anything other than "we should step back and let the authorities handle this situation" Trayvon was going to become a politcal football and get his name dragged through the mud just like every unfortunate person he connects himself to... ever.
God I hate modern politics
We must live in vastly different realities. I'm 6'6', weigh 250lbs and consider myself to be very brave but there's no way I'd do something like that in my own neighborhood, much less some place I wasn't familiar with.
what did he say that was ill advised i only heard the snippet of him saying that if he had a son he'd look like trayvon and that we had to let the authorities do their job. There a new clip?
Dude Abides
Banned
I'm 6'6" 290 and when I was 17 and impetuous, I might have said to myself, in a moment where irritation got the better of prudence, "What the fuck is this guy's problem? I'm going to ask him."
Why do you think Martin decided to turn around (assuming he actually did)?
Baconsammy
Banned
Trayvon didn't just hang up with his girlfriend and confront Zimmerman. He also called 911. Why has that call not been released?
Saint Gregory
Member
Here's the Youtube clip. You can tell that he really cares about the case and when I was watching it live I knew that things were suddenly going to get a whole lot worse :/
Is there any evidence that Trayvon turned around? It sounds like, again if the account his families' lawyer says is true, that he was on the phone until he was confronted. Even if you don't believe his girlfriend I'm sure that the cell records will show if he doubled back while on his call.
Whoa! What?!?!?!
That's all it took
"If I had a son he'd look like Trayvon Martin"
BruiserBear
Banned
That may well be true.
However, if Zimmerman ended up with a gash on the back of his head, it's also possible he was jumped from behind after that phone call ended.
None of us really know at this point.
This is what really bothers me. and honestly if an asshole like that confronted me, and I was doing nothing wrong I would confront them right back.
The way this thing is getting heated though is very dangerous.
Exactly.BruiserBear said:
empty vessel
Member
Got a citation for that? Or are you going to try to tell me that, e.g., there is no "thug" Latino subculture.
They have diminished? So what fraction of the disproportionate black crime rate is due to the inherent criminality of blacks? What fraction of the disproportionate black poverty rate is due to the inherent laziness of blacks?
It depends on what you mean by motive. That Zimmerman was motivated by Martin's race, i.e., that Martin's race was one thing--and maybe the only thing--that made Trayvon "suspicious" to him, is unquestionable. There are reams of studies showing the ridiculously enormous effect that race has on people's assumptions and the inferences they make. The race effect is so great, in fact, that it even affects blacks. That Zimmerman made assumptions based on Martin's race--which he without doubt did unless he is a genuinely rare American--doesn't necessarily mean that Zimmerman consciously hates black people, but the tragedy of this story does not require him to be an overt racist. Whether or not Zimmerman is an overt racist, Martin's death was still caused by his race and by racism.
All that said, I would bet dollars to donuts that vigilantism and overt racism correlate highly.
Dude Abides
Banned
I thought you were saying he did and questioning why, not stating it was implausible that he would. My mistake.
Saint Gregory
Member
I keep asking this and I still haven't seen a reasonable answer. Why would Trayvon do this? What motivation would he have to not simply get back to his family as soon as possible?
We already know based on his 911 calls that Zimmerman is a paranoid wackjob so why is his account more credible than common sense?
No need to apologize, I must have misunderstood you too.
That's just fucked up in too many ways to count... the fact that this is how the kids death is being dealt with by the media...
BruiserBear
Banned
Why would he do this? I don't know, but a lot of young guys might think "I'm gonna teach this guy a lesson for staring me down".
If I had to bet on it, I'd bet Zimmerman chased him down, but I don't feel confident enough to say that for sure, so I'm simply stating that we really don't know at this point.
So a single cartoon artist's depiction represents the "media's" opinion of this case? That's a weird way of looking at it.
Is that what your quoting me on, because I didn't specify what type of media I was talking about?
I'm not that worried of offending an entire organization paid to reflect the news in whatever stroke they want and to whatever cause they wish....
Saint Gregory
Member
I'm really not directing this at you, but one of the many troubling things to come out of this tragedy is I'm starting to realize that there's a fair segment of my caucasian bretheren who are walking around thinking that the average black person wants nothing more than to open a can of whoopass on whatever white person they happen to come across alone.
There's really no other explaination. It would certainly explain the terror they seem to feel about us and the shoot-first-ask-questions-later mentality. Perhaps it also explains the 14% of black people who believe that Zimmerman shouldn't be arrested since they do dream about beating up white people.
Maybe I'm just funny this way but I always try to avoid conflict... with strangers... at night... in a strange neighborhood... while walking with iced tea and skittles... and missing the All-Star game.
Zimmeramn and why he was following me would be the last thing I'd care about.
Gorechylde
Member
Is there evidence to support this? In the tape, Zimmerman tells the dispatcher to have the patrolmen "go past the mail boxes and look for his truck" then he asks to have them call him when they get there. I took it as Zimmerman wanting to walk the patrolmen through finding his location, not that he wouldn't be where he said he would be. I very well could be wrong though. Do we have a layout of the neighborhood?(would the directions be something that he would want to give out in real time? I do that sometimes when trying to direct people to my house so they don't have to memorize a bunch of turns)
Do we know if Zimmerman got back in his SUV and continued the search or was searching on foot? Zimmerman states that it is raining in the beginning of the call so I don't see him going on foot, but I could be wrong. Also, does anyone know where exactly the shooting took place with regards to the original location that Zimmerman gave the dispatcher?(I want to know where Zimmerman initially stopped, got out of his vehicle and began following Trayvon before losing him and where that relates to the location of the shooting. That could give us some insight as to whether Zimmerman did renew his search or not.)Also, when did the altercation take place(time of day)? Has that been in any of the articles and I'm just glossing over it?
Xenon
Member
I am so sick of hearing this bullshit... It took the news at least a week to mention that Zimmerman and Trayvon got into an altercation. Wearing a hoodie and walking in a gated community were reasons why he was being followed but it WAS NOT WHY HE WAS SHOT! For some reason many at NeoGAF had no problem with important details being left out of the media coverage for the first week or so. I would say that many of the outraged were completely ignorant of the complete details of the case. Hell my wife came home and said " Did you hear about the boy who got shot for holding Skittles?" After I gave her more details,she was surprised because from what she heard on the news it seemed like the shooter mistook Skittles for a gun. wtf.
I know most here don't care but Ill give my take on it any way.
1. When you carry a gun you have a certain responsibility for bringing lethal force into a situation. Zimmerman needs to be held accountable for this.
2. I believe this tragic result of two people who mistook the other intentions. Trayvon getting away from some creepy guy following him was misread as a criminal trying to escape.
3. We will never know what really happened between the two people.
4. A young man was robbed of his life and deserved more respect and diligence from the local police. The fact that Zimmerman was bloodied and called 911 in the first place may have been a factor but it should be a matter of policy to bring the shooter into the station.
5. Instead of actually learning anything from this people are going to gravitate to ignorant positions that ignore many facts from the case.
CrazyDogg77
Member
How did Martin misinterpret Zimmerman's intentions?
That's all it took
Yeah them are crocodile tears. What would this black president know about racial injustice. He fucking became president! :/ What a racist comic.
Saint Gregory
Member
I'm curious about this too. Isn't the purpose of a neighborhood watch to observe and report? Since when did that involve chasing and detaining people? I've read several statements on other sites that made it sound as if Trayvon had some duty to respect him as the neighborhood watch captian. Since when did that come with arrest rights?
That's what his lawyer says the girlfriend said. Is there some significance to that?
Zoe
Member
Wasn't Martin suspicious of Zimmerman before Zimmerman had a chance to get out of the car?
BruiserBear
Banned
Well, that non specificity is one of the things that bothers me most when stories like this start stirring up people's emotions. They start making generalizations.
Such as people and the media saying things like "What kind of an unjust country do we live in where a man can be shot for no reason, and the shooter is not charged".
My thoughts go something like this. "Man, what a fucked up police department they must have in that town this happened in".
I don't jump to massive conclusions about an entire country full of 300 million people, and thousands of police departments over one case. Those giant generalizations irk me to no end.
I'm very confident that if this exact situation played out in 10 different locations in America, 9 of those times the shooter would have been immediately charged with a crime. It just so happened this occurred at just the right place, with the wrong people in charge, and it's turned into a mess. I do not see this as some sort of statement about the entire United States of America. Just like I don't see that cartoon as anything more than one jackasses cartoon.
This has nothing to do with race. I would be saying the exact same thing if it was a white kid who was shot here. Young men will sometimes let their emotions get the best of them, myself included, so I could relate to someone wanting to know what this dude's problem was. Everyone is different.
Xenon
Member
Do whe even know if he knew Zimmerman was part of the neighborhood watch? If he did why would he be trying to get away?
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