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*Double post*

 

[guit3457]

They're so paranoid the competition will copy them. Guys, they're gonna copy you anyway. May as well get developers in the loop.

They are paranoid for a very good reasons. It's not the same if they copy you in 2 years than at launch.

 

[frankie_baby]

They ran slower. I had the opportunity to check that by myself (I had a pal N64 wioth Mario 64 and my friend, who is american, had the NTSC-U one...)

I remember an article stating that the PAL games run slower aswell due to poor PAL optimization of the HW.

Some (most) pal games ran slower, that is not the same as the system running slower

 

[cyberheater]

Not really true, the pal n64 ran at the same speed just most games werent optimised for pal tvs

What makes you say that. I'm pretty sure that the US version of SM64 run significantly faster then the PAL version.

 

[ColdBlooder]

Some (most) pal games ran slower, that is not the same as the system running slower

Name one that dosent. I havent found a single one...

 

[comedy bomb]

PS/N64 to Dreamcast was a pretty substantial jump. I doubt Wii U has that kind of advantage over PS3/360.

 

[IceDoesntHelp]

PS/N64 to Dreamcast was a pretty substantial jump. I doubt Wii U has that kind of advantage over PS3/360.

Stop. Let me live for 30 minutes thinking the Wii U has a decent bump over the PS360.

 

[frankie_baby]

What makes you say that. I'm pretty sure that the US version of SM64 run significantly faster then the PAL version.

I know it does, i didnt say that it didnt

 

[Disorientator]

My god the thread picked-up the pace again.

Sorry if someone/wsippel already replied (didn't find anything) but:

GCADPCM is Nintendo's proprietary sample format. And yes, decompression is done on the fly by the DSP. If the hardware decompression didn't work (or isn't used) for whatever reason, the additional load would be quite significant - memory consumption and bandwidth goes up several hundred percent, and the CPU wastes cycles doing something the DSP was supposed to do.

Cool but I'm asking if this sample format got carried over to the WiiU just for backwards compatibility OR it can/will be actively used.

Wouldn't an upgraded audio interface (WiiU's DSP) "require" an upgraded sample format to take advantage of it's upgraded capabilities? (5.1 support, etc)

Any ideas?

 

[EatChildren]

You dorks are going to need a new thread soon.

 

[IceDoesntHelp]

You dorks are going to need a new thread soon.

Take that back, you....you big meanie head!

 

[cyberheater]

I know it does, i didnt say that it didnt

I see what you're saying that the hardware was at the same speed but if the game code is locked to the screen refresh rate then the inevitable happens.

 

[frankie_baby]

Name one that dosent. I havent found a single one...

Of the top of my head i couldnt, i had a pal n64 i lived with it, sometimes though the effort of the pal conversion used to get a mention in reviews and sometimes i remember them saying they ran at full speed, which games though i cant remember now

 

[cyberheater]

Name one that dosent. I havent found a single one...

I do remember RARE optimising some games for the PAL markets. Can't remember which ones though.

 

[ColdBlooder]

I see what you're saying that the hardware was at the same speed but if the game code is locked to the screen refresh rate then the inevitable happens.

N64 just on par with PS1 on PAL land confirmed? 8-O

 

[Log4Girlz]

You dorks are going to need a new thread soon.

The child has already been named.

 

[ColdBlooder]

I do remember RARE optimising some games for the PAL markets. Can't remember which ones though.

Well lets just be happy that those times are behind us

 

[bgassassin]

Just a reminder... Could you imagine what a company that made THIS :



on an overclocked Gamecube, could do on a machine with a power greater than PS360?

My take continues to be this...

plus this...

will get us closer to this...

With extra emphasis on closer.

 

[cyberheater]

Talking of RARE. My 7 year old son is currently playing Kameo (we are on holiday) and I'm still amazed how good that game looks. One of the best looking launch titles of all time on any system.

 

[ColdBlooder]

With extra emphasis on closer.

I would make it bold, inverted and underlined. Someone might think you are at least expecting this from WiiU

Remember, on GAF people only read what suits them the most

 

[ColdBlooder]

Talking of RARE. My 7 year old son is currently playing Kameo (we are on holiday) and I'm still amazed how good that game looks. One of the best looking launch titles of all time on any system.

Not surprising because it was originally a Gamecube game

See whats coming to ya with the WiiU

 

[BurntPork]

The next 3D Mario will leave our jaws on the floor. Maybe our pants as well.

I think this will be a great E3.

 

[bgassassin]

I would make it bold, inverted and underlined. Someone might think you are at least expecting this from WiiU

Remember, on GAF people only read what suits them the most

This is true, haha.

 

[z0m3le]

Well, just read that 16core IBM processor rumor for Xbox 720... why stop there, lets give them all 4 threads, and now you have a 64threaded machine...

http://www.fudzilla.com/home/item/26730-durango-to-pack-16-core-cpu

It's far more likely that the 16"cores" are threads, IBM knows how to do 4-way SMT, so with 4cores, you'd end up with 16threads.

If this is truly the case, Wii U could end up with 4-way SMT too, giving it 12 threads, I wouldn't be against it, especially if the 2 GPUs in xb3 and ps4 are true (AMD themselves went to consoles and pushed opencl and HSA back in feburary)

Anyways, a 4 core XB3 makes plenty of sense, 16 threads would thus be possible, and gives this rumor some context that doesn't blow the expectations outside the realm of logic.

 

[cyberheater]

Not surprising because it was originally a Gamecube game

See whats coming to ya with the WiiU

In a bizzaro world. I'd love for RARE to develop for Ninty again. Shame it's never going to happen.

 

[monome]

EDIT: Come to think of it, maybe not with SNES, but the PAL NES CPU ran at a bit slower speed at least compared to the NTSC NES.

My friend, playing Super Mario Kart SNES vs Super Nintendo is comparing the Sun to a dead Planet.

60Hz is GodHerz.

 

[Sponge]

In a bizzaro world. I'd love for RARE to develop for Ninty again. Shame it's never going to happen.

It's a shame Nintendo was only allowed to keep DKC after the buyout. Banjo probably wouldn't have suffered if it was handled by someone else akin to Retro doing DKCR.

 

[cyberheater]

Anyways, a 4 core XB3 makes plenty of sense, 16 threads would thus be possible, and gives this rumor some context that doesn't blow the expectations outside the realm of logic.

Add in a generous quantity of fast ram and a 79XX class GPU and you'll have a system that would be mind blowing. I don't believe it for a second.

 

[cyberheater]

It's a shame Nintendo was only allowed to keep DKC after the buyout. Banjo probably wouldn't have suffered if it was handled by someone else akin to Retro doing DKCR.

Yeah. I have to agree. I just didn't get the whole vehicle assembly bit. The game did look lush though but I really didn't enjoy the gameplay of the demo.

 

[ColdBlooder]

Well, just read that 16core IBM processor rumor for Xbox 720... why stop there, lets give them all 4 threads, and now you have a 64threaded machine...

http://www.fudzilla.com/home/item/26730-durango-to-pack-16-core-cpu

It's far more likely that the 16"cores" are threads, IBM knows how to do 4-way SMT, so with 4cores, you'd end up with 16threads.

If this is truly the case, Wii U could end up with 4-way SMT too, giving it 12 threads, I wouldn't be against it, especially if the 2 GPUs in xb3 and ps4 are true (AMD themselves went to consoles and pushed opencl and HSA back in feburary)

Anyways, a 4 core XB3 makes plenty of sense, 16 threads would thus be possible, and gives this rumor some context that doesn't blow the expectations outside the realm of logic.

But its nowhere near some insane GAFers expectations... This will be a bitter day for some people when their "16 core" bubble bursts!

Its funny how we, "Nintendrones", or "Ninthings", or "NTards" called Nintendo fans have mostly a fairly reasonable expectation on hardware AND 3rd party support and the other groups have, by far, the most outlandish expectations you could have...

 

[Sponge]

Yeah. I have to agree. I just didn't get the whole vehicle assembly bit. The game did look lush though but I really didn't enjoy the gameplay of the demo.

Neither did I, the game would have worked so much better as a new IP. Maybe Microsoft will outsource the Bear and Bird to someone great one day, but I highly doubt that.

 

[monome]

Add in a generous quantity of fast ram and a 79XX class GPU and you'll have a system that would be mind blowing. I don't believe it for a second.

Only way for MS to promote a super XBOX is to make it very app friendly, and with powerfull apps at that. If MS tries to control the PC multimedia market with its XBOX, then they have a reason for pushing a slightly bigger box and promote its usefullness.

 

[z0m3le]

Add in a generous quantity of fast ram and a 79XX class GPU and you'll have a system that would be mind blowing. I don't believe it for a second.

I don't think 4-way smt would be power conscious, but it's miles more realistic than 16cores with at least 2-way smt.

I do think XB720 will be more powerful than the other consoles, by a small amount, MS is in the best position to launch a powerful console.

 

[Gravijah]

Because designing software is very different from designing hardware?

this is retro we're talking about. how hard is it to cram some pc parts in a box and glue it all together? the men and women there are geniuses.

 

[cyberheater]

Only way for MS to promote a super XBOX is to make it very app friendly, and with powerfull apps at that. If MS tries to control the PC multimedia market with its XBOX, then they have a reason for pushing a slightly bigger box and promote its usefullness.

When you say powerful apps. Are you talking about things like word processors and spreadsheets or are you talking about multimedia apps like easy to use video editors and music creation programs.

 

[bgassassin]

But its nowhere near some insane GAFers expectations... This will be a bitter day for some people when their "16 core" bubble bursts!

Its funny how we, "Nintendrones", or "Ninthings", or "NTards" called Nintendo fans have mostly a fairly reasonable expectation on hardware AND 3rd party support and the other groups have, by far, the most outlandish expectations you could have...

The issue also is those same people think the Nintendo fan's realistic expectations are still unrealistic. According to them you'd think Nintendo fans are expecting Wii U to be the most powerful console next gen with tons of support.

 

[Bagu]

this is retro we're talking about. how hard is it to cram some pc parts in a box and glue it all together?

...

the men and women there are geniuses.

Yes they are, when it comes to making games.

 

[ColdBlooder]

When you say powerful apps. Are you talking about things like word processors and spreadsheets or are you talking about multimedia apps like easy to use video editors and music creation programs.

Isn't Microsoft thew one that wants the "Does it all" box for the living room?

I think they will build a box that does so much that you would say "oh and it plays games!" when you show it off to someone...

Would go something like this:

"You can watch tv, record it, cut videos, listen to music, radio, record it, cut the audio clips, look at images and edit them, play blu rays, organise your music/image/video library, call friends, make an ass out of yourself with star wars kinect 2: waggle to the max!... OH and it plays games!"

 

[ColdBlooder]

The issue also is those same people think the Nintendo fan's realistic expectations are still unrealistic. According to them you'd think Nintendo fans are expecting Wii U to be the most powerful console next gen with tons of support.

Let them dream. We know we are betting on the right horse with our modest expectations!

I FULLY expect the troll invasion on E3 saying "HAHA the multiplat titels look exactly like xbox 360 and ps3! Its just on par you suckers!!!" and of course they would totally ignore anything from Nintendo that looks better than xbox 360/ps3 or claim that it would TOTALLY be doable without sacrifices on PS360!

That will happen on E3 no matter what will be shown and how good it looks!

Trolls are gonna troll. You cant stop it...

Please mark this post to slap in every trolls face come E3. So they can see we predicted their movements 2 month ahead of time

 

[DCKing]

I think Microsoft could accomplish 16 cores if they used the Xenon cores on 28nm. Those cores are really tiny, and would make 100% backwards compatibility possible. Add in the old Xenos GPU ("two GPUS!"), and they have the perfect system for backwards compatibility.

All they have to do next is find something useful to do for all those 32 threads.

 

[cyberheater]

I don't think 4-way smt would be power conscious, but it's miles more realistic than 16cores with at least 2-way smt.

I do think XB720 will be more powerful than the other consoles, by a small amount, MS is in the best position to launch a powerful console.

I'm surprised that MS don't use a 8 core (or more) ARM processor (if available). It would be a good fit for a console and allow devs to develop code for Win8 on tablets and next gen Xbox.

 

[DragonSworne]

OoO and SMT, aren't they two different things?

A core can't both be OoO and SMT, right?

 

[cyberheater]

Isn't Microsoft thew one that wants the "Does it all" box for the living room?

I think they will build a box that does so much that you would say "oh and it plays games!" when you show it off to someone...

Would go somewthing like this:

"You can watch tv, record it, cut videos, listen to music, radio, record it, cut the audio clips, look at images and edit them, play blu rays, organise your music/image/video library, call friends, make an ass out of yourself with star wars kinect 2: waggle to the max!... OH and it plays games!"

Yeah. That's what I'm thinking. A couplete eco system with the whole lot synchronised to multiple Win8 devices via the cloud.

 

[lunchwithyuzo]

It's a shame Nintendo was only allowed to keep DKC after the buyout. Banjo probably wouldn't have suffered if it was handled by someone else akin to Retro doing DKCR.

They also held on to Star Fox Adventures. Uh, yeah.

I was fine with the amicable split. Nintendo has enough of their own properties that are being overlooked (F-Zero, Advance Wars, Mother, Star Tropics, Detective Club, etc, etc) the last thing I'd want is them to also taking stewardship over Rare's cheap knockoffs.

 

[z0m3le]

I think Microsoft could accomplish 16 cores if they used the Xenon cores on 28nm. Those cores are really tiny, and would make 100% backwards compatibility possible. Add in the old Xenos GPU ("two GPUS!"), and they have the perfect system for backwards compatibility.

All they have to do next is find something useful to do for all those 32 threads.

4 newer cores with even 2 threads could out perform it in a lot of ways, but the real problem with going that route would be Xenos would be useless, you can't use it for OpenCL, because it's not designed for it, they need a newer GPU in there for that.

 

[Gravijah]

the last thing nintendo needs is more ips to neglect

also why do people always bring up star tropics? we need a new mach rider instead.

 

[DCKing]

OoO and SMT, aren't they two different things?

A core can't both be OoO and SMT, right?

Out-of-order execution means that a processor can rearrange the order of instructions it executes for maximum efficiency. SMT means that one single processing core can process multiple instruction streams (threads) at the same time. They are perfectly doable at the same time. IBM's POWER7 does it (OoOE with 4-way SMT), as does every Intel CPU with HyperThreading (OoOE with 2-way SMT). Nitpick edit: Intel Atoms are in fact in-order with HT.

4 newer cores with even 2 threads could out perform it in a lot of ways, but the real problem with going that route would be Xenos would be useless, you can't use it for OpenCL, because it's not designed for it, they need a newer GPU in there for that.

I do think Xenos can be used for OpenCL, as its level of programmability is on par with later GPU designs (right blu?). Even if that's not the case, it could assist graphics operations and do post-processing as well.

Spoiler

Or render tablet graphics :X

 

[ColdBlooder]

Yeah. That's what I'm thinking. A couplete eco system with the whole lot synchronised to multiple Win8 devices via the cloud.

I smell another 599 US DOLLAR meltdown...

That will SO not be cheap!

 

[cyberheater]

They also held on to Star Fox Adventures. Uh, yeah.

I was fine with the amicable split. Nintendo has enough of their own properties that are being overlooked (F-Zero, Advance Wars, Mother, Star Tropics, Detective Club, etc, etc) the last thing I'd want is them to also taking stewardship over Rare's cheap knockoffs.

Shots fired!

On a platform that didn't exactly have a huge raft of quality 3D platformers. Banjo-Kazooie was a welcome and polished addition.

 

[DragonSworne]

Out-of-order means that a processor can rearrange the order of instructions it executes for maximum efficiency. SMT means that one single processing core can process multiple instruction streams (threads) at the same time. They are perfectly doable at the same time. IBM's POWER7 does it, as does every Intel CPU with HyperThreading.

These threads within a single core, can they execute instructions from different processes? Or is the core and all it's thread dedicated to a single running process, and the threads are used to process the instructions of the process faster?