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Dota 2 Beta Thread: [Brewmaster]

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She's easily gankable early game and has no escape mechanism. In pubs this is less of an issue because the level of coordination is much lower than competitive games. She can work in certain team comps, most notably aura strats, but otherwise there are better, and safer, carries.

I hear you, but I can't quite vibe with that reasoning just yet. I think of these points:

1.) Lifestealer, AM, Jugg, Morph, Clinkz, Void and Brood are the only carries that have a real escape mechanism before level 6...and 2 of those get cancelled out with Sentry Wards. That's out of...I think 24 carries in the current game? So the vast majority of carries are going to be easily gankable early game by nature. I don't see anything special here that suggets Drow's susceptibility to ganks that is any higher than most carries have. It's not like her armor is 0. If you're getting ganked successfully before you can afford boots, you have bigger problems, as Drow should be able to farm reasonably well against just about anybody in her lane.

2.) Isn't the threat of early ganks the reason why we ward early if not immediately? Almost all carries are squishy early, making them vulnerable to ganks. Only the aforementioned carries can successfully escape a 3 person gank that they didn't see coming. Everyone else is dead if caught. And if the ganking person brought sentry wards, some of them are dead too.

3.) In my experiences, because I've warded I see ganks coming and can retreat to a safe distance, which is what I'd do with any hero. But if they're going to get the attempt off (say they simply have an angle on me), casting silence usually buys enough time to finish the retreat.

4.) In my experience, almost all early game ganks are skill dependent, and silence shuts that shit down for a meaningful period of time. If my health was low during a gank,the death was my fault anyway. Playing with low health for an extended period of time is akin to asking to be ganked sooner or later no matter what character you're playing as.


Idunno. I'm just not seeing all of those weaknesses as problems unique to Drow. In fact, they're the standard more than the exception among carries, but her range, level 4 aoe silence, built-in armor, and slow wins games for teams mid and late. I can think of a couple of better carries, but not a lot of them that don't come with their own laundry lists of weaknesses too. but idk, i'm a noob.


Does it start at 6 seconds? It seems about on par with Riki: too fucking long.
haha no, sir. it starts at 2. but even that's enough if cast on the right people in a team fight, and certainly enough to facilitate a quick escape if you're not pushed too far away from you're tower and are in the process of getting jumped.

Takes her a while to hit her stride. And for really hard carries, there's better carries than her.

I don't feel like it takes that long. She's usually good to go by level 8 or 9, imo. If I plan on early ganking (say if I started mid), I go with 3 frost arrows, 2 (or 3) aura and at least 1 silence. Depending on the enemy team comp and which lane I need/want to gank first. As long as my team is ready to move in when I get there, we're getting kills. I do a slightly different build if I'm side laning, or if the team isn't warding properly (2 silence relatively early for survivability + aura and just 1 frost until later).
 
I wish all these pro streams didn't happen when I'm at work....so tempted to watch..

Open in a new browser and just listen. When you start to hear something good pop over for a bit then just go back to listening. Unless your work has a problem with streaming, or you can't just listen :p
 
I just got the DOTA 2 beta a couple days ago and thought I'd check the beta thread; I have to say the last few pages are really offputting as someone that isn't immersed in the community. It doesn't seem like the place I'd like to pop in and ask some questions. A whole lot of very negative people yelling at someone for posting patch notes, like wtf?

That's my take on it.
 

Those points seem fair but make some assumptions about the level of play you will face. You would typically have to get free-farm or massively outplay your opposing lane in order to succeed as a drow.

The silence is a very unreliable skill for facilitating an escape, especially with how slow the hero turns around. A good silence cast might be better followed by facing off with the would-be ganker and just auto-attacking him to death. 2 seconds of silence isn't going to delay the inevitable or prevent a determined enemy from chasing you till after the silence wears off. Leveling up silence too early means you're not maximizing your damage for last hitting which probably means you giving up your only definitive edge while laning which is your increased attack damage for denying/last hitting.

If you're drow, even on the sidelane, then you shouldn't be warding even though you want to be a team player. You would have picked Windrunner or maybe Venomancer instead with that line of thinking. The way you play is definitely correct, but that applies when using any hero. Drow isn't intrinsically bad, but it's just that dota has way better heroes that can do more given the same amount of farm and at lower levels to boot.
 
Synderen subbing in for Western Wolves, and what seemed like a fair number of standins for mtw a few days ago (with Synd). Potential shakeup in the wind, perhaps?

It's pretty hard to get ganked if you see it coming ahead of time and respond accordingly. Also, you never stand still as a squishy. Ever. It is all about map awareness, positioning, and mobility.
Those are key, but the lack of an escape ability will be taken advantage of if you're against a team that makes it a point to shut you down, be it by diving you to get the kill or endangering you to the point where lane farm isn't safe. Whichever happens is good, because you'll begin to fall behind in gold and levels either way. Shadow Fiend and Drow at least offer utility larger than one-one-one affairs (aoe burst damage and an aoe silence, respectively), Sniper is so narrowly focused with single target skills (bar a tiny terrain aoe) that he can be a bit unconventional in games where push and aoe is so powerful.
 
I'd rather they keep releasing heroes at this pace or even slower. My head is spinning enough from learning what every hero does on the current roster.

While I applaud the effort and final product of the heroes, it still seems pretty slow given that they're already designed. It's more a comment on how Valve doesn't even meet their own deadlines let alone the fans expectations. If the only complaint of the company is that they're slow, though, then they're really in a fantastic position.

Synderen subbing in for Western Wolves, and what seemed like a fair number of standins for mtw a few days ago (with Synd). Potential shakeup in the wind, perhaps?

That's what I was thinking when watching. Wouldn't be all that bad of an idea either. They were doing really well. I'm glad to see Tinker getting more love too and not just for the Ancient camp stacking trick.
 
I just got the DOTA 2 beta a couple days ago and thought I'd check the beta thread; I have to say the last few pages are really offputting as someone that isn't immersed in the community. It doesn't seem like the place I'd like to pop in and ask some questions. A whole lot of very negative people yelling at someone for posting patch notes, like wtf?

That's my take on it.

It wasn't patch notes, it was large segments of datamined code. I'm sure you haven't seen someone who asks a question be mocked, given the discussion of Drow's viability in the past page.

And Kirby, if you don't like bokr, bzm, and kappy's trolling, ignore those three posters and don't subject the rest of the thread to walls of code that are mostly, well code, rather than content. Have the decency to either pastebin it or pseudocode it to make it actually meaningful.

For example, instead of: (exceptionally superfluous code bolded)
"Hero_Brewmaster.PreAttack"
{
"channel" "CHAN_WEAPON"
"volume" "1"
"pitch" "95, 105"
"soundlevel" "SNDLVL_75dB"
"pitch" "95,105"
"rndwave"
{

"wave" "weapons/hero/earthshaker/fist_swing1.wav"
"wave" "weapons/hero/earthshaker/fist_swing2.wav"
"wave" "weapons/hero/earthshaker/fist_swing3.wav"
}
"soundentry_version" "2"
"operator_stacks"
{
"start_stack"
{
"import_stack" "dota_preattack_block_dist"
}
}
}

Could have been replaced with:

Added three wind-up sounds for brewmaster's attack that, interestingly, coincide with earthshaker's sounds.

And gone on to say that the other sounds "added" for brewmaster overlap with other heroes suggesting that unique sounds have yet to be added, and we can look forward to it in the future.

No one would've found issue with this sort of post, it would've been more informative and concise, and many will actually read it rather than skipping it.

I am also against splitting the thread, even though I don't post here much, because it would do little to resolve the main problem, which is skill/knowledge gap. People come in here asking questions and are answered by both new players and experienced players with information that applies to their brackets. For example, sorry Irish, if someone were to come in and ask about good pushing heroes and was told by a new player that Sniper was a great pusher, they would believe it and add it to their bank of dota knowledge. More experienced players know that Sniper is not a pusher at all, and is awful when compared to actual pushers (Brood, Chen, Lesh, SS, etc), but the player asking the question may have already come and gone and left with misinformation that he will go on to tell other people before he corrects it, in all likelihood. But there's nothing we can do to resolve this other than discuss it in the thread, and keeping the thread together and having more people look at it increases this discussion to the benefit of everyone involved.

It's easy to ignore posters that you don't like, and please avoid labeling and blaming people for trolling or joking around in the thread, do remember that your OP is part of teh dreaded HoNGAF. And when IHL rolls around, I'll bet it will be one of us that gets it started.
PROVE ME WRONG PLEASE OH GOD

There will be typos I don't have time to read this again leaving for 8 hours won't respond for a while brb
 
http://dota2.cyborgmatt.com/gifs/DotA2_HU-RunInjured.gif

Never realized just how well modeled huskar is, his texture work is crazy good.

So gyro has to be soon right? They put in his subtitles.

The last time they did that lycan was released the patch after, same case with syllabear.

Not that I care for gyro, just seems like people are brushing that aside in favor of brew.

also I like picking sniper as a complimentary character. I think he's excellent with faceless void. MoM sniper + FV, 2good.

Possibly, but we have had PA subs for ages. I wonder what is taking her so long.
 
Quote:
"Hero_Brewmaster.PreAttack"
{
"channel" "CHAN_WEAPON"
"volume" "1"
"pitch" "95, 105"
"soundlevel" "SNDLVL_75dB"
"pitch" "95,105"
"rndwave"
{
"wave" "weapons/hero/earthshaker/fist_swing1.wav"
"wave" "weapons/hero/earthshaker/fist_swing2.wav"
"wave" "weapons/hero/earthshaker/fist_swing3.wav"
}
"soundentry_version" "2"
"operator_stacks"
{
"start_stack"
{
"import_stack" "dota_preattack_block_dist"
}
}
}

Oh man what a shit update we got this week, fucking Valve.
 
And Kirby, if you don't like bokr, bzm, and kappy's trolling, ignore those three posters and don't subject the rest of the thread to walls of code that are mostly, well code, rather than content. Have the decency to either pastebin it or pseudocode it to make it actually meaningful.

If we hold people to those standards we might as well agree that people who don't like those walls of code should ignore Drkirby instead of him stopping to post them.
 
Welp, joinDOTA's stream is postponed due to StarSeries. Or Ladder. Idunno.

...

Is there any english cast of said StarSeries on right now?
 
If we hold people to those standards we might as well agree that people who don't like those walls of code should ignore Drkirby instead of him stopping to post them.

Unless you would actually appreciate the content of them without the terrible format.
 
DotA2_HU-RunInjured.gif

Huskar's got a bit of a pimp strut going..
 
Hopefully 2GD has had alot of practice since their meeting :lol

Ye, from what I've seen he isn't the greatest, but I think they'll put on a good show :p

edit: oh, CWM joining through skype :)
and I think waga is gonna cast the tourney they're having this weekend
 
Ye, from what I've seen he isn't the greatest, but I think they'll put on a good show :p

edit: oh, CWM joining through skype :)
Yeah but it's also hard to gauge his exact skill since he tends to play with alot of high-skilled people like SingSing. Yeah I'm just hoping for an entertaining show :lol
 
What I should have done is posted them on paste bin, which I didn't think of at the time, and with it being more then 100 posts back, I likely won't do it for these. I had work coming up pretty shortly, so for the bulk of the changes I didn't have too much time to read though the full thing and analyze them, so I simply posted the full thing. I'll make use of Paste Bin in the future so not to clog up to much screen space.


Also, I just filed a bug report on the Dev Fourms, am I wrong with how the Haste Rune should work?

http://dev.dota2.com/showthread.php?t=30539&p=176408#post176408
 
Also, I just filed a bug report on the Dev Fourms, am I wrong with how the Haste Rune should work?
You can't be slowed under any circumstances when you have a haste rune, the tooltip is probably wrong. Although, I always thought it was just maximum MS during the duration of the buff similar to Dark Seer Surge, never took the time to calculate the math behind the numbers.
And he didn't think of that back when he wrote his feelings out? -.-
He probably didn't think the competitive scene would deteriorate as fast as it did / didn't want to piss off his sponsor. He may have been doing a "this is bigger then me" stance, he's a big deal.
 
You can't be slowed under any circumstances when you have a haste rune, the tooltip is probably wrong. Although, I always thought it was just maximum MS during the duration of the buff similar to Dark Seer Surge, never took the time to calculate the math behind the numbers.

This topic I found answers both questions, and backs me up. Its 2 years old, so there may be a change I don't know about:
http://www.playdota.com/forums/showthread.php?t=228239


Hate rune is a 100% speed buff, you should be able to be slowed by it.
Lycan's Max move speed and Dark Seer's Max move speed are 1000% buffs, but I think for Dota 2 Valve can and will make them just hard capped 522 move speeds, since they were made purposely too high to ever be practically slowed in a real game.
 
Tooltip is wrong, Haste giving capped movement speed is the intended effect.
 
Is there a penalty for abandoning a game?

If it isn't at least an hour block or more they should definitely introduce it.

The last two games I've had I was the last one on my team and I only noticed it way too late.
(Pushing towers while they were out ganking. Or apparently being ganked more like it.)
 
Is there a penalty for abandoning a game?

If it isn't at least an hour block or more they should definitely introduce it.

The last two games I've had I was the last one on my team and I only noticed it way too late.
(Pushing towers while they were out ganking. Or apparently being ganked more like it.)

You get put in low priority for 24 hours for every abandon, which means you have to wait longer to find games. Though I think you need 2 in a day for that to happen.
 
Is there a penalty for abandoning a game?

If it isn't at least an hour block or more they should definitely introduce it.

The last two games I've had I was the last one on my team and I only noticed it way too late.
(Pushing towers while they were out ganking. Or apparently being ganked more like it.)
You'll get put into low priority queue at a certain point.
 
Hate rune is a 100% speed buff, you should be able to be slowed by it.
Lycan's Max move speed and Dark Seer's Max move speed are 1000% buffs, but I think for Dota 2 Valve can and will make them just hard capped 522 move speeds, since they were made purposely too high to ever be practically slowed in a real game.
Just tested in game on CM (280) with Viper Bite (80%), Poison Attack (40%), Icy Vortex (30%), Upheavel (84%), and Ice Wall (140%)

Had no effect, you still maintain the 522 MS, the tooltip is wrong should just say, you gain maximum movement speed, similar to Lycan / Surge
 
Is there a penalty for abandoning a game?

If it isn't at least an hour block or more they should definitely introduce it.

The last two games I've had I was the last one on my team and I only noticed it way too late.
(Pushing towers while they were out ganking. Or apparently being ganked more like it.)


to add to what others said, I believe it may also be a percentage threshold. I have 6 abandons out of 600 games and have never been put in low priority.
 
fnatic doing everything in their power to shut down WW's Antimage. Impressive coordination and focus.

Getting their money's worth out of those Scythes.
 
to add to what others said, I believe it may also be a percentage threshold. I have 6 abandons out of 600 games and have never been put in low priority.
It's within a certain amount of time.
fnatic doing everything in their power to shut down WW's Antimage. Impressive coordination and focus.
I felt Nova's pain when he used Ravage on air, done that twice in the past 2 days because of misclicks, good to see that Fnatic have adjusted well to dota 2 though.

So the SK lineup was

Sayuri
Col.Jeyo
Pusher Street
PaintItGold
Korok ( ?? )
 
Just tested in game on CM (280) with Viper Bite (80%), Poison Attack (40%), Icy Vortex (30%), Upheavel (84%), and Ice Wall (140%)

Had no effect, you still maintain the 522 MS, the tooltip is wrong should just say, you gain maximum movement speed, similar to Lycan / Surge
Did you test in Dota 1 or 2?
 
I hear you, but I can't quite vibe with that reasoning just yet. I think of these points:

1.) Lifestealer, AM, Jugg, Morph, Clinkz, Void and Brood are the only carries that have a real escape mechanism before level 6...and 2 of those get cancelled out with Sentry Wards. That's out of...I think 24 carries in the current game? So the vast majority of carries are going to be easily gankable early game by nature. I don't see anything special here that suggets Drow's susceptibility to ganks that is any higher than most carries have. It's not like her armor is 0. If you're getting ganked successfully before you can afford boots, you have bigger problems, as Drow should be able to farm reasonably well against just about anybody in her lane.

If you are going to count garbage tier carries like Juggernaut and Clinkz, then you forgot a lot of much better carries and semicarries like Mirana, Riki, Weaver, Spectre, Slardar, Nature's Prophet, Invoker, QoP, Destroyer, and Bounty Hunter (barely better). There, I doubled your collection of carries with escapes before 6.

Thats not including things that aren't technically escapes but can kind of count if you are lucky or very skilled (similar to how drow can silence and slow possible gankers), like huskar (kill everyone), Nightstalker (silence one, slow another), Lone Druid (put your bear in the way), and Sven (stun everyone).

The carries that have no real protection against a big gank are Shadow Fiend, Sniper, Viper, Bloodseeker, Lycan, Razor, Silencer (protected against combo based gankers, but not anybody else), Skeleton King, Dragon Knight and Doom (the last three just have to hope they are tanky enough to survive).

Drow definitely doesn't get the credit she deserves as a carry, quite strong.
 
Did you test in Dota 1 or 2?
Dota 2, don't have WC3 installed, maybe Milk or 1.09 can test it in Dota 1.
Drow definitely doesn't get the credit she deserves as a carry, quite strong.
Drow in comparison to her contemporaries ( other ranged agility carries ) is pretty decent, her problems just lie in the fact that she can get constantly ganked with very little ability to prevent her death, and I know you listed a lot of heroes that can't such as Doom, SK, etc, but lots of those heroes save for Shadow Fiend, Sniper have some ability to escape death, either Movement Speed bonuses, innate tankiness or ultimates that deter the chase ( Doom / Rupture ). She doesn't get picked more because of how ridiculously good Morphling is, not being able to stop Morph is ridiculous.

She does snowball pretty well once you get a bkb though, or if an early Yasha can be made.
 
So the SK lineup was

Sayuri
Col.Jeyo
Pusher Street
PaintItGold
Korok ( ?? )

If SK disbanded Quantic, I can't see this lineup lasting more than 2 weeks at this rate.



Skadi and Diffusal on morphling...I guess he doesn't want the mana burn, only the purge effect and the additional stats? Curious to see if he'll pick a HotD since that stacks with Skadi
 
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