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[brotkasten]

Much like Alonso.

 

[Myoclonic Jerk]

I knew watching the Sky build up would prove useful, shame that was the only point that was worth hearing.

last year it was to easy to pass, this year to hard until tires went off, whats the bet the DRS will be put half way between last years start point and this years start point next year?

I know this might sound crazy, but I'd suggest a new way to use the DRS

Once the driver triggers the DRS detection point and he qualifies to use it, he's given a time just like KERS and he could use it anywhere during the next lap until he reaches the detection point again

 

[Foliorum Viridum]

I know this might sound crazy, but I'd suggest a new way to use the DRS

Once the driver triggers the DRS detection point and he qualifies to use it, he's given a time just like KERS and he could use it anywhere during the next lap until he reaches the detection point again

It could be fun to see who pushes too hard on an exit of a corner and goes flying into a wall.

 

[Psychotext]

It could be fun to see who pushes too hard on an exit of a corner and goes flying into a wall.

Thing is... if they're trusted to do it in qualifying, then I can't really see any reason why not as long as it's not in the first few laps of the race / after a SC restart.

 

[Myoclonic Jerk]

Thing is... if they're trusted to do it in qualifying, then I can't really see any reason why not as long as it's not in the first few laps of the race / after a SC restart.

Exactly. I think 5-6 seconds should be more than enough

 

[frontieruk]

I know this might sound crazy, but I'd suggest a new way to use the DRS

Once the driver triggers the DRS detection point and he qualifies to use it, he's given a time just like KERS and he could use it anywhere during the next lap until he reaches the detection point again

See I like that idea, it gives 2 bites at the apple and an element of surprise as everyone knows that once the current DRS zone is reached the leader hits on the KERS and the car behind hits the DRS and KERS, allowing it anywhere in the lap ala KERS would make interesting viewing.

 

[Myoclonic Jerk]

Where's FiA's suggestion box? lol

We should submit this and sign it GAF1

 

[Foliorum Viridum]

Thing is... if they're trusted to do it in qualifying, then I can't really see any reason why not as long as it's not in the first few laps of the race / after a SC restart.

Yeah, I agree. You push just as hard trying to get the perfect lap time in quali as you do trying to catch the car ahead.

 

[AndyD]

Thing is... if they're trusted to do it in qualifying, then I can't really see any reason why not as long as it's not in the first few laps of the race / after a SC restart.

In qualifying there is no need to be X many seconds behind another car. In a race, how do you measure when they are close enough, not close enough? Or do you mean just look at time difference across the finish line and decide for the entire lap whether DRS is allowed or not? Then deactivate once a pass is made and remeasure at the next finish line pass.

 

[frontieruk]

In qualifying there is no need to be X many seconds behind another car. In a race, how do you measure when they are close enough, not close enough? Or do you mean just look at time difference across the finish line and decide for the entire lap whether DRS is allowed or not? Then deactivate once a pass is made and remeasure at the next finish line pass.

I read it as once over the detection point, if the requirements are met the driver then has the x seconds to use the DRS anywhere for that lap after the activation point.

 

[Myoclonic Jerk]

I read it as once over the detection point, if the requirements are met the driver then has the x seconds to use the DRS anywhere for that lap after the activation point.

That.

I swear we could come up with better solutions than FiA's stupid trial and error approach

 

[Foliorum Viridum]

I think KERS/DRS should depend on how good your car is, eg:

McLaren/Mercedes - 3 seconds of KERS, DRS in a designated zone
Force India/Sauber - 6 seconds of KERS, DRS for half a lap from a designated point
HRT - Infinite KERS, DRS for the entire race, three horses pulling the car for extra speed.

All that for a HRT joke. Ba dum tish.

 

[ReadingRambo]

I say DRS available all the time ala Quali.

 

[frontieruk]

That.

I swear we could come up with better solutions than stupid FiA's trial and error approach

I think the problem is though we think it's a great idea, how the drivers would utilise it would be different, we see it probably how KERS was envisioned as a means to get alongside for and overtake into a corner, instead it ended up being used by everyone at the same point on track so the advantage was fairly evenly spread though some packages performed better than others.

 

[Myoclonic Jerk]

I think the problem is though we think it's a great idea, how the drivers would utilise it would be different, we see it probably how KERS was envisioned as a means to get alongside for and overtake into a corner, instead it ended up being used by everyone at the same point on track so the advantage was fairly evenly spread though some packages performed better than others.

The less than 1 sec rule still applies. The driver in the front won't be able to use it to defend his position

I think even KERS should have some limitations. Like once every 2 laps or so

 

[RomanticHeroX]

KERS already has a limitation in the amount of time it can be used per lap. The thing is KERS is much more effective when used to defend than pass, so both systems are made a little redundant. I've said it before, but the solution in my mind is to scrap both and go back to the days when passes were made on balls and talent.

 

[pegaso]

KERS already has a limitation in the amount of time it can be used per lap. The thing is KERS is much more effective when used to defend than pass, so both systems are made a little redundant. I've said it before, but the solution in my mind is to scrap both and go back to the days when passes were made on balls and talent.

You mean when there were none? I'll only allow it if we get steel brakes and way less aero grip.

Spoiler

And V10s.

 

[RomanticHeroX]

They were fewer and far between, I give you that, but they mattered. Where's the drama in a pass that's possible because you suddenly can go 20 kph quicker?

 

[Foliorum Viridum]

The drama is trying to keep a gap above/below 1 second.

 

[ReadingRambo]

It just feels so "gamey" if that makes sense. The turbo button is bad enough, but the whole "activation zone" stuff is just silly.

 

[Myoclonic Jerk]

It just feels so "gamey" if that makes sense. The turbo button is bad enough, but the whole "activation zone" stuff is just silly.

I agree with that.

 

[Adam Scott Aukerman]

I know this might sound crazy, but I'd suggest a new way to use the DRS

Once the driver triggers the DRS detection point and he qualifies to use it, he's given a time just like KERS and he could use it anywhere during the next lap until he reaches the detection point again

Not only would that make it much harder to follow for viewers, but it would further blur the lines between the two systems, increasing the redundancy of having two systems to begin with.

They should just ditch DRS altogether and move to a more powerful, standardised (yes, you heard) KERS.

 

[pegaso]

They were fewer and far between, I give you that, but they mattered. Where's the drama in a pass that's possible because you suddenly can go 20 kph quicker?

The drama is trying to keep a gap above/below 1 second.

The DRS gives an advantage, but it doesn't feel cheap. Just enough to overcome the aero disturbances that made overtaking impossible (and actually dangerous) two years ago. If it were so disruptive we would have constant overtaking between similar cars, and that doesn't happen. I think it actually increased drama: you don't need a huge pace difference to try and get your nose ahead of the other into the bend, and that leads to lovely, lovely acceleration duels. It happened like five or six times yesterday. Was it Maldonado the one that actually touched rims with other car?

It just feels so "gamey" if that makes sense. The turbo button is bad enough, but the whole "activation zone" stuff is just silly.

Yes, it's very unnatural. I thought it was ridiculous when it was revealed, but I actually like it now.

 

[Psychotext]

I actually prefer the "use it anywhere" idea mentioned by Jerk to that of vanilla DRS. With the DRS zone you know exactly where the overtake is coming from, and it's either easy to defend from or impossible (usually based on the track). With S-DRS (Sneaky DRS!) a driver with skill could choose exactly where to attack (and combine it with a full dose of KERS) leading to a far more varied bunch of overtakes.

 

[AcridMeat]

I'll sign that petition, I'd love to see the fight come from other parts of the track and not just the straights. As mentioned, the circuit determines the effectiveness of DRS more than anything, which should be rectified.

edit: Not that there isn't overtaking elsewhere, last race had some great passes.

 

[SunhiLegend]

There was some pretty awesome overtakes last year which didn't include DRS.

 

[Dilly]

There was some pretty awesome overtakes last year which didn't include DRS.

It had to be Alonso being overtaken thrice. >_>

 

[Edmond Dantès]

DRS has helped the spectacle of F1 in the short-term regardless of how artificial it may seem, but in the long-term I'd like to see a return to a reliance on mechanical grip rather than aero based grip.

Powerful engines, turbos, larger tyres and small front wings or none at all. Ground effects... maybe, but still very dangerous.

 

[Sleeplessnights]

Alonso overtaking Button on the outside of turns 6 and 7 in the Brazilian GP.

Credit SunhiLegend of course.

 

[brotkasten]

It had to be Alonso being overtaken thrice. >_>

Alonso is so awesome, even when he gets overtaken, it's an awesome moment.

 

[Dilly]

Alonso overtaking Button on the outside of turns 6 and 7 in the Brazilian GP.

Awesome

Credit SunhiLegend of course.

Alonso is so awesome, even when he gets overtaken, it's an awesome moment.

 

[brotkasten]

You mean when there were none? I'll only allow it if we get steel brakes and way less aero grip.

Spoiler

And V10s.

Last time they tried "less aero", we ended up with shitty looking rear wings.

 

[AcridMeat]

DRS has helped the spectacle of F1 in the short-term regardless of how artificial it may seem, but in the long-term I'd like to see a return to a reliance on mechanical grip rather than aero based grip.

Powerful engines, turbos, larger tyres and small front wings or none at all. Ground effects... maybe, but still very dangerous.

I hope the turbo engines bring back the small front wings, but anything that makes the cars less safe isn't going to happen I'm afraid.

 

[Edmond Dantès]

Last time they tried "less aero", we ended up with shitty looking rear wings.

They got it wrong last time and they'll get it wrong in 2014.

They should have gone ahead with ground effects. It would have been the most significant change in F1 car design philosophy for over a decade.

I hope the turbo engines bring back the small front wings, but anything that makes the cars less safe isn't going to happen I'm afraid.

F1 has come a long way since the eighties. Tubs are much safer places for a driver to be, circuits are also far safer with generous run-off areas, safety in other areas, like crumple zones and the Hans device. F1 with a reliance on mechanical grip could work without loss of life.

 

[frontieruk]

They got it wrong last time and they'll get it wrong in 2014.

They should have gone ahead with ground effects. It would have been the most significant change in F1 car design philosophy for over a decade.

F1 has come a long way since the eighties. Tubs are much safer places for a driver to be, circuits are also far safer with generous run-off areas, safety in other areas, like crumple zones and the Hans device. F1 with a reliance on mechanical grip could work without loss of life.

seeing as some of the nastiest accidents in the sport are attributed to ground effect aero I can see why they didn't go that way tbh

 

[Edmond Dantès]

Modern day versions of these, yes please.

 

[pegaso]

F1GAF, you dissapoint me. Ground effect is terrible, nostalgia of an embarrassing era. The equivalent of 90s comics in motorsports. It makes the cars look silly, it's unacceptably dangerous and it actually makes the races less spectacular, you either turn stuck to the ground with no drama at all or you spin out of control. What we need is cars that with less aero grip so that we can have occasional four wheel drifting in the best Stirling Moss tradition.

And worse brakes. Braking separates the men from the children (just look at MotoGP), and we really can't appreciate it with the insane bite of the carbon discs. Also let's bring back that Ayrton Senna guy.

 

[ANDY_098]

One bit of nostalgia I would like to bring back is H pattern gears and clutch pedals. Also to get rid of 99% of the buttons on the steering wheel, the driver cannot change fuel mixes, diff settings etc during a race. One button for radio and another for drinks is all they would have.

Edit: And for 2014 the fuel flow limit should not apply in qualifying, let's see who can get the most boost without blowing their engine up.

 

[Dilly]

One bit of nostalgia I would like to bring back is H pattern gears and clutch pedals. Also to get rid of 99% of the buttons on the steering wheel, the driver cannot change fuel mixes, diff settings etc during a race. One button for radio and another for drinks is all they would have.

Actually, that's stuff I like about F1.

 

[frontieruk]

One bit of nostalgia I would like to bring back is H pattern gears and clutch pedals. Also to get rid of 99% of the buttons on the steering wheel, the driver cannot change fuel mixes, diff settings etc during a race. One button for radio and another for drinks is all they would have.

This! the car is set up and the driver has to work with it.

 

[Edmond Dantès]

F1GAF, you dissapoint me. Ground effect is terrible, nostalgia of an embarrassing era. The equivalent of 90s comics in motorsports. It makes the cars look silly, it's unacceptably dangerous and it actually makes the races less spectacular, you either turn stuck to the ground with no drama at all or you spin out of control. What we need is cars that with less aero grip so that we can have occasional four wheel drifting in the best Stirling Moss tradition.

And worse brakes. Braking separates the men from the children (just look at MotoGP), and we really can't appreciate it with the insane bite of the carbon discs. Also let's bring back that Ayrton Senna guy.

Hardly think the example posted above looks silly.

Also, regarding the iron rotors proposal. The differences in breaking distances would be negligible as evidenced by other open wheel racing.

 

[pegaso]

Hardly think the example posted above looks silly.

I do. I really don't like the cars of that era, as much as I love the John Player livery. That's just aesthetics anyway, I hate ground effect for the way the cars have to be driven.

Also, regarding the steel brakes proposal. The differences in breaking distances would be negligible as evidenced by other open wheel racing.

Steel discs fade, or at least behave differently according to their temperature. They also require a different tact. I'm not saying they'd start braking 200m sooner, but it would make it a little bit more challenging. It doesn't matter anyway, steel brakes are never happening because they're not as safe.

 

[brotkasten]

Hardly think the example posted above looks silly.

Also, regarding the iron rotors proposal. The differences in breaking distances would be negligible as evidenced by other open wheel racing.

Those cars look terrible. It's like the drivers are sitting in a bathtub.

 

[Big Takeover]

I don't want to see the replication of any of the past eras. I'd like to see the rules and cars move forward with new and interesting ways to do motor racing. For example, I think the ACO (Le Mans) rules foster much more interesting racing cars these days. The current formula of F1 is getting stale. They need to take more risks.

Audi is fielding a diesel-electric quattro car at Le Mans this year. That should be an F1 car. That's the pinnacle of race engineering, not these goofy aero systems like blown diffusers, and double DRS. They're interesting ways to skirt the rules, but that's about it.

 

[frontieruk]

I don't want to see the replication of any of the past eras. I'd like to see the rules and cars move forward with new and interesting ways to do motor racing. For example, I think the ACO (Le Mans) rules foster much more interesting racing cars these days. The current formula of F1 is getting stale. They need to take more risks.

Audi is fielding a diesel-electric quattro car at Le Mans this year. That should be an F1 car. That's the pinnacle of race engineering, not these goofy aero systems like blown diffusers, and double DRS. They're interesting ways to skirt the rules, but that's about it.

I kinda wish A1 GP had made a bigger impact, the last I saw they were running some sort of eco engines

 

[RomanticHeroX]

The most interesting advancements in the past decade or two were snuffed out before they could proliferate. If things like adaptive suspension and other computer assists could've been allowed to mature F1 cars would be truly incredible things now indeed. Not that I think that'd necessarily be great for the spectacle, but it'd make some amazingly fast cars.

 

[Edmond Dantès]

I don't want to see the replication of any of the past eras. I'd like to see the rules and cars move forward with new and interesting ways to do motor racing. For example, I think the ACO (Le Mans) rules foster much more interesting racing cars these days. The current formula of F1 is getting stale. They need to take more risks.

Audi is fielding a diesel-electric quattro car at Le Mans this year. That should be an F1 car. That's the pinnacle of race engineering, not these goofy aero systems like blown diffusers, and double DRS. They're interesting ways to skirt the rules, but that's about it.

Hybrid F1 cars would be very interesting indeed. Although many would complain above the noise and going against the traditions of F1.

I've always maintained that LMP1 racing is the pinnacle of motorsport on a technical level and recently Moto2 the pinnacle of entertainment.

F1 hasn't got much going for it these days except the reputation of having the best drivers, which is also debatable as top tier rally drivers can be put forward as the best in the world.

 

[Tempy]

Not sure what the Bonus Question is actually asking.

 

[ANDY_098]

Not sure what the Bonus Question is actually asking.

From the options I guess they are asking who the shortest driver is.

 

[Edmond Dantès]

Hadn't realised that Mark is close to seven foot tall, truly a god amongst men.