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[Shiggy]

Could someone please explain to me why the certification process on WiiWare takes so long? His WiiWare criticism is certainly true as we've heard the same things from other developers. But why are so many studios report about failing the lotchecks again and again?

From what we know, things have changed with the eShop though.

 

[Lord_Byron28]

Oh, I definitely think Nintendo will get their shit together for the Wii. I hope so at least.

Well the Wii U is going to be offering full retail games for download according to Iwata so the limit will likely be suspended

This shit will bite Nintendo in the ass. I don't see the point for such daft measures.

Y'see, this is the sort of nonsense that makes me realise why devs tend to dance around talking about the Wii-U.

Most of this stuff is only detrimental to small/indie/garage developers not to big name developers who have been asked about the Wii U. Also Sony and Microsoft offer similar measures just not as extreme. I believe Microsoft has done the most to court small/indie developers.

I think we can all agree that Nintendo's ecosystem for Wii DD titles was objectively bad.

This. I thought it was good for it's launch but it quickly spiraled and unraveled out of control. Hopefully Nintendo learns from this. If not prepare for another gen of irrelevant digital content from Nintendo.

 

[Criminal Upper]

No, I don't think it's sensible. But I can understand his bitterness, to a point. I'd probably feel the same way. Will developing for future Nintendo platforms bring more money to his business? Sure, that's always a possibility. Will not developing for them hurt his company? Likely not, there are plenty of other platforms out there. Everyone loses, really - Nintendo loses a potential developer it treated poorly, and the developer loses out on opportunities.

I REALLY doubt that's the case.

 

[JaxJag]

I'm not sure if I want to support a guy like this anymore. Was going to buy Baldur's Gate Enhanced Edition, but after such ridiculous claims, he doesn't deserve a sale from me. Sure some of that is reasonable critisism, but with claims like Wii is a toy and no one buys more than one game for it is ridiculous.

But you'll support Nintendo with their policy that basically scams hard working developers out of money if they don't reach a arbitrary goal?

Makes sense.

 

[Father_Brain]

The long certification process and sales quota are legitimate concerns, but otherwise this guy's assuming the system won't change at all with the Wii-U. I can't imagine WiiWare on Wii-U having a 40mb limit. Does the 3DS eShop even have a 40MB limit?

Unchained Blades is being released on the eShop, and I believe the PSP version is over 700MB. So, no.

 

[Baron]

Just so everyone's aware, the only thing this company put on the Wii was that awful port of MDK2.

You know, that revivla of the well-known killer franchise that everyone was anticipating?

With a 40 meg file size limit, how could it be anything but awful? The dev should have just moved the project to Playstation with Move or something.

 

[Deadly]

He used to be from Bioware. Past experience must be from that Sonic RPG that bombed hard

 

[Speevy]

Guys come back, it's 80 MB now!

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

Guys come back, it's 80 MB now!

2gb on eshop and likely no limit on the wiiU (I presume) since they are selling full retail games.

 

[walking fiend]

em, who is he?

2gb on eshop and likely no limit on the wiiU (I presume) since they are selling full retail games.

later it was corrected that 2gb was not confirmed (though, Speevy wasn't serious either)

 

[Criminal Upper]

With a 40 meg file size limit, how could it be anything but awful? The dev should have just moved the project to Playstation with Move or something.

Well, they should complain to Interplay. It was their choice to put the game on the service. I really doubt Nintendo courted them for that super hot port that all the other digital services were after.

 

[Instro]

2gb on eshop and likely no limit on the wiiU (I presume) since they are selling full retail games.

I thought that was a misquote?

 

[Glass Rebel]

No, I don't think it's sensible. But I can understand his bitterness, to a point. I'd probably feel the same way. Will developing for future Nintendo platforms bring more money to his business? Sure, that's always a possibility. Will not developing for them hurt his company? Likely not, there are plenty of other platforms out there. Everyone loses, really - Nintendo loses a potential developer it treated poorly, and the developer loses out on opportunities.

Well, if that's his way of managing a company (i.e. based on personal grudges) I wish him all the luck he can get because he will need it.

 

[Drencrom]

"I can't make a game that will sell 6,000 copies so Nintendo is stoopid"

It's still a pretty shitty thing of them and it scares away smaller devs. It doesn't help that sales on the nintendo store are lower compared to other services too.

 

[Criminal Upper]

Guys come back, it's 80 MB now!

Way to show your ignorance.

 

[Fantastical]

em, who is he?

OH MY GOD WHY DOES THIS FUCKING MATTER?

I'm sorry, but these responses are so old. He's a developer. Dude makes legitimate criticisms about the WiiWare service, and you're basically saying what he says doesn't matter because you've never heard of him.

 

[cws]

"My problems with Nintendo are: requiring 6,000 unit sales before payment, a certification process that took us 9 months, and a 40MB limit," Oster said.

And they didnt knew that before developing their WiiWare title ? Blame yourself.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

I thought that was a misquote?

some call it backtracking because they're not allowed to say

 

[Htown]

I wouldnt mind knowing this either. I dont follow Nintendo very much so their sales performance is a mystery to me.

Last I'd heard, the attach rate was around 1-1.5 games less than PS3 or 360, but that was a while ago.

Also, let's put the MDK 2 complaints in perspective.

It was the third re-release of a 12 year old B-tier game that was cut down to fit WiiWare's size limit and was like 40% more expensive than the PC version, which was already on GOG. Yeah, Nintendo has some dumbass downloadable policies, but let's not act like their game was poised to set the world on fire.

 

[BorkBork]

A case of being burned once and not willing to give Nintendo a second chance. Fair comments though about the ridiculousness of Wiiware development.

 

[Grymm]

Let me answer that by asking you a question. Is it sensible to not port a game to Wii U because of restrictions that exist on the predecessor?

Not saying he's obliged to port it but his reasoning is poor at best.

So what you're asking is

Is it sensible to pass on something because of a dislike of something about the people who made it?

Spoiler

looks at Fez dev comments thread

 

[Pachterballs]

I can see how off putting nintendo can be to 3rd parties. They're dinosaurs in the 3rd party relationship front.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

I think we can all agree that Nintendo's ecosystem for Wii DD titles was objectively bad.

yes, we can.

 

[Terrell]

It's still a pretty shitty thing of them and it scares away smaller devs. It doesn't help that sales on the nintendo store is significantly lower compared to other services too.

Doesn't hurt iOS development, which also has a payout cap, albeit less restrictive. But a cap nonetheless.

 

[AceBandage]

It's still a pretty shitty thing of them and it scares away smaller devs. It doesn't help that sales on the nintendo store is significantly lower compared to other services too.

Most devs have been very pleased with their eShop sales, actually.

 

[Reuenthal]

His complaints about that service are legitimate but he kind of makes it harder to take him seriously with the other stuff he said.

 

[Shadow Hog]

Well, I guess that means that purported port of Descent to WiiWare is never gonna happen, then?

Not like it matters, since I bought both that and MDK2 off of GOG already (which is why I didn't bother with a WiiWare port).

 

[NeoRausch]

Guys come back, it's 80 MB now!

Ahahaaahaaahaaahahahahaaaha........

...

:/ funny...

 

[LiK]

em, who is he?

in the OP.

 

[Gvaz]

The toy comment was dumb, and it will only undermine the rest. Especially here.

Despite the fact I bought a wii day one, i have to agree with him.

 

[phosphor112]

Hasn't heard of Wii U?

This thing?

Spoiler

I'm sure he won't have a changed opinion on them

 

[Somnid]

I thought that was a misquote?

3DS is designed for DD of retail games, there is probably not much of a hard limit. However, having a big game will probably make it more expensive on the eShop so that 2GB game will need a $20 price tag.

 

[Slayven]

You would think the dude insulted Japanese games in this thread.

 

[Glass Rebel]

So what you're asking is

Is it sensible to pass on something because of a dislike of something about the people who made it?

Spoiler

looks at Fez dev comments thread

That's the best analogy you could have come up with? Please, you can troll better, I've seen your work in that thread!

 

[ctrayne]

.

 

[Pachterballs]

The fact that he said that certification took 9 months; should indicate how fucked up it is on that front. I mean, you make a game, you want to sell it and get some revenue, and fucking nintendo (or insert other company name) holds back your product that long. You've invested all this time and money. And your product is in limbo

That's why he doesn't want to do business with them. Nothing wrong at all.

 

[blu]

Do any other companies have a limit of how much you can sell before you make money?

Apple do (or at least they used to, dunno about their present payment rules).

 

[Instro]

some call it backtracking because they're not allowed to say

Ah thats certainly possible. Either way I imagine whatever the limit is, it must be pretty high.

 

[walking fiend]

OH MY GOD WHY DOES THIS FUCKING MATTER?

I'm sorry, but these responses are so old. He's a developer. Dude makes legitimate criticisms about the WiiWare service, and you're basically saying what he says doesn't matter because you've never heard of him.

eh, it does matter?

If he is not someone important, why should I care? There are lots of persons out there with bad experiences with Nintendo; if they are not top in the decision making chain, let them stay bitter; their loss

Also, his criticism is very sensational and irrational "Hey, Nintendo online once used to suck, so even if they fix it, I won't make a game cause it sucked before..." We know these don't hold true even for 3DS

 

[SoulPlaya]

When people say it's changed with the Wii U, do they mean just the 40 mb limit, or the 6,000 sales and long certification process? Cause I'm sure the 40 mb limit wasn't his main gripe.

 

[Plinko]

1. He has a legitimate complaint about Nintendo's old dealings with devs.

2. The rest of his comments make him sound incredibly childish.

3. His comment about the Wii being "a toy" is laughable, as EVERY console is a toy.

 

[Grymm]

That's the best analogy you could have come up with? Please, you can troll better, I've seen your work in that thread!

I'm just pointing out that in one thread I've seen you say you'd pass on a game because of a dislike of a developer.

And yet here in this thread you're making a stink because a developer is passing on Nintendo because they dislike their methods.

If he doesn't like them he doesn't like them. That should be enough. It seems to be enough for you.

 

[SykoTech]

and people still expect wiiU to turn things around for 3rd parties.

Quiet you!

It be different. This time for sure. You'll see....

 

[v1oz]

If that's true. Then that's seriously bad on Nintendo's part.

For years they've been saying they are trying to improve relations with third parties. Seriously it shouldn't take 9 months to approve any downloadable game. A then don't get paid a dime if the game flops.

 

[SapientWolf]

eh, it does matter?

If he is not someone important, why should I care? There are lots of persons out there with bad experiences with Nintendo; if they are not top in the decision making chain, let them stay bitter

Also, his criticism is very sensational and irrational "Hey, Nintendo online once used to suck, so even if they fix it, I won't make a game cause it sucked before..." We know these don't hold true even for 3DS

It matters because if this dev feels comfortable saying these things in public, then how many devs are saying the same thing private? Nintendo has a ton of catch up work to do to achieve parity with other platforms in the DD space.

 

[Speevy]

Way to show your ignorance.

Uhhh...way to have a sense of humor.

 

[Windom Earle]

Nintendo certification has always been shit, they REALLY need to speed things up for WiiU.

 

[7threst]

If this was their experience then its an absolutely fair and reasonable criticism to offer. Absolutely. I can understand why such difficulties would put anyone off.

But isn't something like this clear before you release anything on WiiWare? If you then go ahead to do something on WiiWare and fail to be succesfull, it's a bit strange to complain about the rules you clearly were okay with when you developed something for WiiWare.

 

[ElFly]

WiiWare has some really terrible problems.

Not being able to set your own price is the big one, followed by the apparent complete mystery of when Nintendo will actually release your game, (edit) followed by the minimum sales to get any money from it (/edit), followed by the certification nightmares, followed by file size, followed by everything else.

Nintendo really needs to get their shit right on DD like now. Dunno if they have advanced anything in the 3DS, but I think the big problems are still there.

But isn't something like this clear before you release anything on WiiWare? If you then go ahead to do something on WiiWare and fail to be succesfull, it's a bit strange to complain about the rules you clearly were okay with when you developed something for WiiWare.

That's irrelevant, though. The guy is pointing out the problems with WiiWare, mentioning that he knew what he was getting into does nothing to solve the real problem of WiiWare sucking compared to nearly every other DD platform.

We should appreciate people being able to be this earnest about it, instead of the usual PR useless talk we always get.

 

[v1oz]

Yeah, he has some very legit complaints. He should have stopped with those - then all the whining ITT would have no ammo. But he just had to call it a toy.

Can't you work around the 40MB limit by making your game episodic? Like sell additional levels for 99c.