Marvel's The Avengers |OT| (Dir. Joss Whedon) [Spoilers unmarked]

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Salvor.Hardin said:
So I saw it last night for the second time, and I really do not like how Cap has been characterized kind of like a naive goody two-shoes dumb blonde. I understood some of those moments were used as a means to create a lighter mood, but it just made him look more out of place than usual.

Often he seems lost and airy. Apart from the two checklist-item scenes of Cap giving orders and spouting some strategic positions, he doesn't at all come off as the military leader you expect Captain America to be like.
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He sounds similar to the Captain America in Ultimates (the plot of the Avengers movie, afaik, has a lot in common with Mark Millar's Ultimates 2)
 
duckroll said:
I'm not saying that he has more heroic scenes than the others. I'm saying his position and intention in the battle is that of a steel willed leader who leads from the front, and demands only as much of others as he would give of himself. Every character had their "badass" moments, but the Captain America owns the scenes where he shows leadership and self-sacrifice. He's clearly not in it for the glory, which is why he doesn't have as many moments where he does something "cool", but rather he has the scenes where he is the voice of reason, or the leader, or the guy getting a grenade in the face instead of civilians.

I will also add that Captain America when he is in the Avengers, is always a slightly different character from who he is when he is on his own missions in his own comic. I feel his characterization here is spot on, and if you want to see Captain America just do a ton of cool things like pose after throwing a shield for a money shot and so on, there'll probably be a TON of that in his next movie. As the leader of the Avengers he is more reserved in his pure heroics, because he feels he has to, and he tends to speak up a lot more because no one else in the team tends to like talking.
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I agree, in all honesty I wouldn't have wanted a single scene in the movie of him doing what he did to be taken out for something else more extravagant. His stuff had its place and it served pretty well.

But yeah, I really want his character to expand greatly in CA2, not just the same 'ol. I want him to be on a different mental level by the end of that movie. More confident and determined; "belong".

Also, Evans need to beef up again. He really isn't on the same level as in the early part of CA1, he seems to have declined. His tone was already in question, so I hope he gets that ball rolling by CA2.
 
thetrin said:
He sounds similar to the Captain America in Ultimates (the plot of the Avengers movie, afaik, has a lot in common with Mark Millar's Ultimates 2)
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Ultimates 1 is definitely more similar. Ultimate Cap was more of a jingoistic asshole - which I loved - than a goody two shoes. He was an angry grandpa that killed people with his bare hands.
 
Sentry said:
I agree, in all honesty I wouldn't have wanted a single scene in the movie of him doing what he did to be taken out for something else more extravagant. His stuff had its place and it served pretty well.

But yeah, I really want his character to expand greatly in CA2, not just the same 'ol. I want him to be on a different mental level by the end of that movie. More confident and determined; "belong".

Also, Evans need to beef up again. He really isn't on the same level as in the early part of CA1, he seems to have declined. His tone was already in question, so I hope he gets that ball rolling by CA2.
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I agree. CA2 really needs to allow Rogers to feel confident and grounded in the modern day, and for him to truly be able to accept the world he is living in now and embrace his role in it. In a way, he is in a really unique position here, because all the other Marvel hero movies have this safeness in them where each sequel is just the character being that character, since they were already in their element. The potential for growth here makes him a much more interesting character.

And yes, I do feel that Evans kinda... lost some of the bulk here. I excuse it because he probably lost shape while sleeping for decades. *cough* No excuses for CA2 though, he needs to look the part, especially knowing about the sort of threats the world now could face.
 
Mr. Sam said:
Ultimates 1 is definitely more similar. Ultimate Cap was more of a jingoistic asshole - which I loved - than a goody two shoes. He was an angry grandpa that killed people with his bare hands.
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We don't need that Cap at all- there's already enough douchebaggery on the team from Stark and Thor alone, without making Cap a tool too.
 
Green Scar said:
We don't need that Cap at all- there's already enough douchebaggery on the team from Stark and Thor alone, without making Cap a tool too.
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Yeah. I think that sort of Cap can be left to something much later on if they want to explore that sort of psychology. It's not very realistic that Rogers would have that sort of mindset coming out of the Captain America movie.
 
thetrin said:
He sounds similar to the Captain America in Ultimates (the plot of the Avengers movie, afaik, has a lot in common with Mark Millar's Ultimates 2)
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Cap from Ultimates is a complete badass. The CA from the Marvel films is like the polar opposite.

I mean, he doesn't even endear to anyone in the film. We're constantly told how smart and funny Stark is through volleyball verbal exchanges, but Steve gets almost no recognition from the rest of the characters.
 
Oh no issue or doubt how well Cap was portrayed as the personification of 'Hero' or as a selfless leader.

I was just commenting on how the impact of his
resolve in the face of injury or his glorified 'human' side is lessened when you have two 'also humans' in the form of BW and Hawk seem completely impervious to anything and to laugh at danger like it's a thrill ride. Takes you out of it for a second and I think does make Cap look a bit 'weaker' by comparison. Not that his SCENE was 'weak,' it just would have been more powerful if the contrast between Cap and Hulk/Thor/IM was more stark without the other two swaying the balance toward 'super hero' (little to no humanity) and 'hero' (human who rises above).

But, I get it. You have to do that to BW and Hawk, otherwise no one would care about them in this movie
 
duckroll said:
I agree. CA2 really needs to allow Rogers to feel confident and grounded in the modern day, and for him to truly be able to accept the world he is living in now and embrace his role in it. In a way, he is in a really unique position here, because all the other Marvel hero movies have this safeness in them where each sequel is just the character being that character, since they were already in their element. The potential for growth here makes him a much more interesting character.

And yes, I do feel that Evans kinda... lost some of the bulk here. I excuse it because he probably lost shape while sleeping for decades. *cough* No excuses for CA2 though, he needs to look the part, especially knowing about the sort of threats the world now could face.
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Bingo. I really hope they don't drop the ball on CA2. There's a lot of time for them to get it right though, I have faith. And I think his costume really helped hide the loss, tbh. Needs more shirtless action!

Mr. Sam said:
Ultimates 1 is definitely more similar. Ultimate Cap was more of a jingoistic asshole - which I loved - than a goody two shoes. He was an angry grandpa that killed people with his bare hands.
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That's not really how I remember him in Ultimates at all... maybe a little bit, under the right circumstances, but he wasn't too different from the 616 version either.
 
Green Scar said:
We don't need that Cap at all- there's already enough douchebaggery on the team from Stark and Thor alone, without making Cap a tool too.
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I actually totally agree. I don't like Cap in Ultimates at all. I like 616 Cap a LOT more.

Sentry said:
Bingo. I really hope they don't drop the ball on CA2. There's a lot of time for them to get it right though, I have faith. And I think his costume really helped hide the loss, tbh. Needs more shirtless action!


That's not really how I remember him in Ultimates at all... maybe a little bit, under the right circumstances, but he wasn't too different from the 616 version either.
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It must have been a while for you, but he's VERY different in Ultimates. I liked him more in Ultimates 1 when he was just a lost man out of time. In 2, he's very much a jingoistic asshole.
 
Salvor.Hardin said:
Cap from Ultimates is a complete badass. The CA from the Marvel films is like the polar opposite.

I mean, he doesn't even endear to anyone in the film. We're constantly told how smart and funny Stark is through volleyball verbal exchanges, but Steve gets almost no recognition from the rest of the characters.
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He doesn't need recognition. He has respect.
 
Saw it the other day. Didn't care for any of the individual movies except for the first Iron Man, but I loved this. It was big, dumb, and very entertaining. It was exactly what it needed to be. I don't see how they could have made a film about braindead american trash any better than this. The only big downside was that the villain himself wasn't much of a threat.

4/5
 
Truant said:
Saw it the other day. Didn't care for any of the individual movies except for the first Iron Man, but I loved this. It was big, dumb, and very entertaining. It was exactly what it needed to be. I don't see how they could have made a film about braindead american trash any better than this. The only big downside was that the villain himself wasn't much of a threat.

4/5
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"Braindead American Trash"

Comics, finally getting the recognition they deserve!
 
Salvor.Hardin said:
Cap from Ultimates is a complete badass. The CA from the Marvel films is like the polar opposite.

I mean, he doesn't even endear to anyone in the film. We're constantly told how smart and funny Stark is through volleyball verbal exchanges, but Steve gets almost no recognition from the rest of the characters.
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Yeah, I don't really like him in the films. I like his character (i.e. hitting people with shields and whatnot), but Evans is bland, and the character is bland. I think it should have been someone older, 35-40. I know its written as he commands respect but I don't really believe in it. At least not in The Avengers.
 
I thought the characters worked well in the ensemble setting, and I liked that they were at odds for a while. None of them are super interesting, except for The Hulk. They really nailed the casting, and Ruffalo was great. Wish they did a Hulk film with him.
 
John Harker said:
Oh no issue or doubt how well Cap was portrayed as the personification of 'Hero' or as a selfless leader.

I was just commenting on how the impact of his
resolve in the face of injury or his glorified 'human' side is lessened when you have two 'also humans' in the form of BW and Hawk seem completely impervious to anything and to laugh at danger like it's a thrill ride. Takes you out of it for a second and I think does make Cap look a bit 'weaker' by comparison. Not that his SCENE was 'weak,' it just would have been more powerful if the contrast between Cap and Hulk/Thor/IM was more stark without the other two swaying the balance toward 'super hero' (little to no humanity) and 'hero' (human who rises above).

But, I get it. You have to do that to BW and Hawk, otherwise no one would care about them in this movie
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I feel that out of the three, in terms of coolness factor Black Widow came out of it tops. She was fighting with Cap side by side, and then she gets to ride the vehicle which she controlled by stabbing the pilot and steering the body, and in the end she's the one who closes the portal.

In comparison, Hawkeye got a few cool scenes with arrows, and he got to "blow up" Loki (lol!), but in the end when overwhelmed, he jumped off the building and escaped with a grappling hook arrow like a wuss.

I think there's definitely something which makes it look like both of these characters are more "larger than life" than Captain America as you mention it, because they laugh in the face of danger and they're supremely confident, but they are also characters who are only confident because they only have themselves to worry about. I don't think Captain America is concerned about his own well-being, but he's the sort who would beat himself up about it if he's too late to save some people he doesn't even know. He's more invested into everything, and I guess that is his "weakness".

And yeah, they gave BW and Hawkeye tons of character development AND cool scenes probably because they have to make the audience care about characters who don't have their own movies. Oh and probably to sell toy sets. Lots and lots of toys. Lol. :D
 
thetrin said:
It must have been a while for you, but he's VERY different in Ultimates. I liked him more in Ultimates 1 when he was just a lost man out of time. In 2, he's very much a jingoistic asshole.
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I'm not saying he isn't different, just that that's not how I remember Cap from Ultimates. But I see you're talking about Ultimates 2, where he definitely was more aggressive.

Truant said:
I don't see how they could have made a film about braindead american trash any better than this.
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tumblr_lazm8oeMtP1qd0v72o1_500.gif
 
Truant said:
Saw it the other day. Didn't care for any of the individual movies except for the first Iron Man, but I loved this. It was big, dumb, and very entertaining. It was exactly what it needed to be. I don't see how they could have made a film about braindead american trash any better than this. The only big downside was that the villain himself wasn't much of a threat.

4/5
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Sad since Captain America shits all over the rest of the Marvel studios movies.
 
They needed to sell Renner's Hawkeye to me in terms of both his character and his fighting style. I know the comic Hawkeye is a badass but I wasn't feeling great about MCU Hawkeye, if only because, well... he's a dude with a bow. That's all Hawkeye seemed like to me before I saw the film.

Hawkeye as a character isn't really all that interesting (for reasons that become obvious early in the film) but he more than held his own in the city brawl, so in that regard, Hawkeye was a success. I do really like EMH Hawkeye though- was hoping for some quipping or such.
 
I always thought Cap had a pretty middling reviews from the general public but reading this thread, GAF has a pretty polarizing view on it.
 
I'm on the "Captain America is kitschy and full of heart" side.

I wasn't recommending Ultimate Cap be in the film, by the way, just expressing my admiration for him. "Surrender? SURRENDER!? You think this A on my head stands for 'France'!?"
 
duckroll said:
Nah he has is pretty right.
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Let's do this.

Thor - Very fun, dumb ride, but a great, very Branaugh vibe throughout. The earth bits are dull, and the final fight is lame. The Asgard sequences - namely Hiddlestone and the silly band of men save it.

X-Men First Class - McAvoy and Fassbender are phenomenal. It captured Professor X and Magneto as well as Sirs McKellan and Stewart. The Argentina scene is the best scene in the series not in X2. With the exception of the quick ending, which I'll chalk up to the less than 12 month production schedule, it's the second best X-Men film behind X2.

Iron Man - Most polished Marvel film by far. No huge pitfalls in it, other than the disappointing villain.

Iron Man 2 - Not as good as the first. Action was still very good. Howard Stark Sr. was the most memorable part out of it - other than ScarJo.

Captain America - The action was just bad. Storming factories - explosions in the background. That pretty much sums it up. I actually really liked the secondary characters - Band of Brothers guy and such - and Evans was fine as Captain America. This, more than any other Marvel film, felt like a SyFy channel production - particularly the final sequence starting with the hangar chase scene and so on.
 
That's my problem with CA2. The second half is all action but it's done poorly. Avengers is it done well.

anyway, don't know if posted, apologies if so - http://www.guardian.co.uk/film/film...battleship-uk-box-office?intcmp=ILCMUSTXT9384

Iron Man has always been potent at the UK box office, but would adding relative commercial weaklings Thor, Captain America and the Hulk to the formula increase or detract from the character's appeal? That question has now been answered in resounding fashion, as Avengers Assemble explodes at the UK box office with £15.78m, including Thursday previews of £2.55m. That's more than double the openings of Iron Man (£5.47m including previews of £667,000) and Iron Man 2 (£7.66m including previews of £877,000) from early May 2008 and late April 2010 respectively. The Avengers takings are also more than the entire runs of last year's franchise extensions Thor (£14.05m) and Captain America: The First Avenger (£9.48m) as well as both of the last decade's Hulk movies, which took £8.43m (Ang Lee's The Hulk, starring Eric Bana) and £8.28m (Louis Leterrier's The Incredible Hulk, starring Edward Norton).

Disney is trumpeting the result as the biggest superhero-movie opening of all time. The Dark Knight debuted with £11.19m including £2.50m in previews. Spider-Man 3 kicked off with £11.83m (all from the Friday-Sunday period, no previews) in May 2007. Disney is also celebrating it as the second-biggest four-day weekend ever (behind Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix, with £16.49m). However, this achievement loses some of its lustre when you consider certain three-day opening results, notably Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows: Part 1 (£18.32m) and Part 2 (£23.75m). Coming off the disappointment of the over-budgeted John Carter, which has failed to crack £5m in total in the UK, Disney will have regained some much-needed spring in its step. Positioning Avengers Assemble as the first major tentpole of summer (unless you count Battleship, which opened 11 April) has proved a smart move, with no major competition for fans of event-movie spectacle. The downside is that by opening outside of a school holiday, audiences are not so available on weekdays to see it, but with such a whopping opening weekend, the Avengers won't need much in the way of midweek grosses to achieve a huge total. Meanwhile, Battleship has fallen from first to sixth place, with a drop in takings of 61% from the previous weekend
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Talon- said:
Let's do this.
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Fuck yeah!

Captain America - Really fun flick shot in a period retro style like Rocketeer. The characters are great and there's a campy feel throughout which is enjoyable and unique to comic book movies. The action sequences were done in a very traditional way, and might have lacked ambition, but it was filled with heart all the way to the end.

Iron Man - Solid origin story movie for a hero who hasn't been represented in film before. Amazing casting, and solid production values. The villain was pretty lame but the actors elevated it above the material. Also, robots are cool.

Thor - Fun fantasy action adventure ride. Costumes and sets had this really weird super-campy look to them which goes way beyond Captain America's retro look. It looked more SyFy than anything else in the Marvel movies, but again the great casting elevated it. The villains were actually cool in this movie, which helps a lot, but the actual fights were kinda boring.

Iron Man 2 - Amazing casting and really compelling villains. Unfortunately the story is unfocused and tries to do way too much. The intention is good but the execution was flawed. Pacing had issues. The race track action set piece was amazing, but the final battle was a letdown given the scale promised.

Incredible Hulk - Unoffensive film with a decent script. The villains had a chance to be compelling, but the performances weren't really there. Out of all the films in terms of scope and ambition this felt the most TV-like, even though the production values were pretty good. It felt like a longer movie version of the sort of story we might find in a TV series for the Hulk. Enjoyable for comic fans, but a weak piece of cinema.
 
duckroll said:
Fuck yeah!

Captain America - Bland actor who I feel is too young for the part when trying to command respect is the lead. Solid opening which, when actually getting to the meat of the story and the conflict between CA and Red Skull, is let down by poor direction and writing. The action sequences are really very bad and made me lose interest in the entire film, considering the second half was mostly action.

Iron Man - Lead is brilliant, rest of the cast are good as well. Up until the climactic battle it's great, and then loses steam. Fortunately the rest is good so it doesn't matter.

Iron Man 2 - Casting for the two villains completely wasted on one being a non-entity in terms of threat level and the other having nothing to do. Lead still great but without half the quality of lines to work with as in the first. Pretty bad overall.

Incredible Hulk - Should have been a great lead but somehow wasn't, the direction was workmanlike and just seemed to be set towards putting out a film where Hulk destroys things rather than an actual good film. Climactic fight and villain were poor. Just a non-entity, really. Possibly the only one of the four I've seen that I would say isn't required viewing.
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Changed to reflect my views.
 
Cap is my favorite marvel movie tied with Iron Man 1 (not counting Avengers). It was great and spot on in every way. Hugo Weaving as Red Skull is casting heaven.
 
richiek said:
Avengers is now at 94% on RT. There's now 5 negative reviews. One's from the Miami Herald, so it doesn't seem to be trolling for clicks.

http://www.miami.com/039the-avengers039-pg-13-article
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Why has The Avengers elicited such rabid, near-unanimous pre-release love from critics and audiences? I’m not sure, but consider this: At a recent preview screening, a short scene during the end credits elicited a roar of surprised hoots and hollers (including mine) from the audience. But later, talking to people in the lobby, I couldn't find anyone who knew what we had just seen in that teaser. Why did everyone get so excited and cheer then? Maybe it’s because we love these characters so much, we’re willing to embrace anything Whedon serves us, because he has obvious respect and affection for the material. We want the movie to be great. Good intentions, though, aren’t enough.
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This bit is funny.
 
SalsaShark said:
sure i could have used more, but build up! he's probably signed for multiple marvel stuff
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True! Going by Iron Man 2 and probably 3's mashing up of plots, I reckon Cap 2 will have both the Winter Soldier plot and some stuff with Red Skull and H.Y.D.R.A.. They've got to reintroduce the latter at some point, it's a key part of Marvel. And Red Skull is basically floating around the Nine Realms so they can easily enough pull some plot mumbo jumbo out of their arse to bring him back into the modern-day fold.

DoctorWho said:
This bit is funny.
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It's a hilarious way of basically calling the people who love this film dirty fanboys.
 
Talon- said:
Let's do this.

Thor - Very fun, dumb ride, but a great, very Branaugh vibe throughout. The earth bits are dull, and the final fight is lame. The Asgard sequences - namely Hiddlestone and the silly band of men save it.

X-Men First Class - McAvoy and Fassbender are phenomenal. It captured Professor X and Magneto as well as Sirs McKellan and Stewart. The Argentina scene is the best scene in the series not in X2. With the exception of the quick ending, which I'll chalk up to the less than 12 month production schedule, it's the second best X-Men film behind X2.

Iron Man - Most polished Marvel film by far. No huge pitfalls in it, other than the disappointing villain.

Iron Man 2 - Not as good as the first. Action was still very good. Howard Stark Sr. was the most memorable part out of it - other than ScarJo.

Captain America - The action was just bad. Storming factories - explosions in the background. That pretty much sums it up. I actually really liked the secondary characters - Band of Brothers guy and such - and Evans was fine as Captain America. This, more than any other Marvel film, felt like a SyFy channel production - particularly the final sequence starting with the hangar chase scene and so on.
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X-Men First Class isn't a Marvel Studios movie.

Marvel Studios made:

Iron Man
The Incredible Hulk
Iron Man 2
Thor
Captain America: The First Avenger
 
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