Marvel's The Avengers |OT| (Dir. Joss Whedon) [Spoilers unmarked]

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yea, iirc, he had a lil bit of control so he added the failsafe to it without Loki knowing.

Maybe Loki did have him put in a fail safe just in case things turned on him. It was clear (at least to me) Loki wasn't doing this attack completely of his own free will. The Chitauri clearly had some control, over him. I think he was playing along until with the Chitauri until he could find away to turn the tables. The mountain talk between him and Thor and later Coulson's line that Loki "lacks conviction" adds to that. "The mortals think we are invincible" speech before Thor drops him, hints that Loki has run into some badasses (Thanos). He has learned that Thor and himself can be killed by others.

I kinda agree with earlier posters idea that this is part of a long term Loki plan- known that Thanos/the Chitauri real threat, he may be trying to manipulate both sides- "helping" the Chitauri while bring together warriors outside of Asgard to fight back. (Kinda like how Loki played the Frost Giants in Thor). If the Avengers had failed, Loki likely would have used the fail safe himself to wipe out as many Chitauri as possible before sneaking back into Asguard himself to prepare a second line of defense.

Being captured at the end works to his benefit too- being taken as prisoner to Asgard, Loki is safe temporally due to the Bitfrost being down. He can plot on his own or since fans love Hiddleson's Loki, he could do a temporary face turn for Avengers 2. Remember, Loki not just about gaining power- deep down he just wants to be recognized as being worthy to leader in his father's eyes. Given Asguard's warrior culture, Loki interpreting that as taken down threats to Asguard.
 
"To be in the red" generally means you are in debt. All she was saying was that there was a lot of stuff from her past from before she was with SHIELD that she feels like she needs to make up for by doing good.

O cool that makes sense my Wife was like what she talkin about im like dunno. I just saw Scarlet Johanson didnt' really care about what she was saying lol

Thnx @Evlar too
 
VERY SERIOUS QUESTION:

As a matter of fact, my wife noticed it. Why does Hulk SAVE Iron Man at the end? Doesn't he HATE everything? They built up a premise that he was 'uncontrollable', didn't explain how he could control it, yet he visibly was at the end. Didn't even attack Thor or Cap while Iron Man was down for the count.

Please, someone shed some light. It ruins the movie for me.

How are people missing this very obvious part of the movie?

Banner can control Hulk, the reason he's uncontrollable on the Helicarrier is Loki's influence+Explosion.
 
"To be in the red" generally means you are in debt. All she was saying was that there was a lot of stuff from her past from before she was with SHIELD that she feels like she needs to make up for by doing good.

When accountants write debits into a financial ledgers they use red ink. "I have red in my ledger and I need to wipe it out" means she owes a debt to someone and wants to repay it. The implication is she's done a lot of bad shit, and she wants to do something heroic to make up for it.

I took it as a double-meaning with that, plus she's killed a lot of people before she joined SHIELD, and red=blood.
 
VERY SERIOUS QUESTION:

As a matter of fact, my wife noticed it. Why does Hulk SAVE Iron Man at the end? Doesn't he HATE everything? They built up a premise that he was 'uncontrollable', didn't explain how he could control it, yet he visibly was at the end. Didn't even attack Thor or Cap while Iron Man was down for the count.

Please, someone shed some light. It ruins the movie for me.

go read back a page or two.
 
VERY SERIOUS QUESTION:

As a matter of fact, my wife noticed it. Why does Hulk SAVE Iron Man at the end? Doesn't he HATE everything? They built up a premise that he was 'uncontrollable', didn't explain how he could control it, yet he visibly was at the end. Didn't even attack Thor or Cap while Iron Man was down for the count.

Please, someone shed some light. It ruins the movie for me.

No, in the past movie they touched on that. Banner is still in there, somewhere. Hulk is pure emotion...usually rage, but also does things impulsively. Like punching Thor for no particular reason. In cannon, Banner has been separated from Hulk a few times, and THAT Hulk would just kill, eat and shit out the entire world.
 
The movie was amazing! Felt like a great story that was more true to the comic/shows. Felt like it was the best marvel made movie yet. Joss whedon did an amazing job and I love how he is able to handle a big team of characters. The two scenes after the credits made me go wild haha.
 
So he is able to distinguish that Iron Man is the scientist who liked him? What about Black Widow? doesn't make sense within the movie.

Im not familiar with the comics but im gonna take a stab at it

With black widow, he accidentally transformed, basically in a panicked rage.

with the end battle he controlled his transformation and thus remained in control of the hulk
 
VERY SERIOUS QUESTION:

As a matter of fact, my wife noticed it. Why does Hulk SAVE Iron Man at the end? Doesn't he HATE everything? They built up a premise that he was 'uncontrollable', didn't explain how he could control it, yet he visibly was at the end. Didn't even attack Thor or Cap while Iron Man was down for the count.

Please, someone shed some light. It ruins the movie for me.

Hulk does still have a mind(in most incarnations) and make his own choices. He will usually smash the bad guy just so folks will leave him alone.
 
That isn't in the movie. But he is 'worthy' to lift it, at least in the comics.

Hulk, on the other hand, is all "fuck being worthy" and just lifts it anyways (through much effort and anger, of course).

Thanks for clearing that up.
Would have been a nice touch.
 
So he is able to distinguish that Iron Man is the scientist who liked him? What about Black Widow? doesn't make sense within the movie.

Yeah, it does. When he transforms on the carrier, he's A) under Loki's influence and B) Does it on accident and C) Doesn't have a lot of time to calm down.

Later, he controls the transformation somewhat, isn't under Loki's influence and has a bit of time to work out some of the rage and was likely in greater control.
 
You know I really have to commend how the Widow character was handled and how Johansson portrayed her. There have been comments previously about how ridiculously underpowered both she and Hawkeye are in comparison to the others, but to me this came out as a tremendous strength. Throughout the movie you really got the feeling that she felt overwhelmed by everything around her, from facing off against the Hulk to the final battle. I think it makes the character and movie better when she's trust into situations with people out of her power-level and still fights unwaveringly. It would have been a miss to only have super-powerful characters without any grounding.
 
Yeah, I think it's pretty clear that when the transformation is intentional, Banner can control the Hulk. If his secret is that he's "always angry," then it stands to reason that the Hulk can be summoned. He's not strictly a slave to provocation anymore.

The thing with him attacking Natasha was that he had just come out of an intense argument with Fury and the Avengers, combined with Loki's manipulation, then the explosion, that transformation was not intentional, thus he couldn't control it.
 
Banner even gives his secret to controlling his anger.

Hulk is his anger.
He's always angry.
Banner presumably has some control.

And then the while Loki manipulation thing.
 
You know I really have to commend how the Widow character was handled and how Johansson portrayed her. There have been comments previously about how ridiculously underpowered both she and Hawkeye are in comparison to the others, but to me this came out as a tremendous strength. Throughout the movie you really got the feeling that she felt overwhelmed by everything around her, from facing off against the Hulk to the final battle. I think it makes the character and movie better when she's trust into situations with people out of her power-level and still fights unwaveringly. It would have been a miss to only have super-powerful characters without any grounding.
One of my small (main?) beefs with the film was the dress up of female characters. I swear, every woman in there was wearing some sort of high heels. Widow wore wedges for the most part, I think.
 
Mark VII can actually tie into Iron Man 3 really well if they're basing it on Extremis. The whole suit up process takes too long and Mark VII was a solution Tony came up with. And it's still not good enough.

Stark putting his armor on and off with all the *bzzzt* and *clang* and *whirrr* in the most elaborate ways is the best part of the IM movies, I hope it will stay that way.
 
AVENGERS FAQ (because we keep going in circles):

  • Why was Hulk not uncontrollable at the end?
    Banner's second transformation into Hulk was voluntarily. It's been established, in the comics and in The Incredible Hulk, that a voluntary transformation makes Hulk more controllable and means he can distinguish between friend and foe. Banner's first transformation was involuntary, and thus Hulk was much more volatile.
  • How did Thor get back to Earth? Wasn't that rainbow bridge thingy destroyed?
    Thor got back to Earth thanks to Odin using dark magic to teleport him there. Loki mentions this when Thor abducts him. It's implied that this is a very difficult process and a one way ticket - the tesseract is needed to teleport Thor and Loki back to Asgard.
  • What did Hulk say--
    Hulk says "Puny god" after smashing Loki. I'm sorry the audience was too loud.
  • Who was that after the end credits?
    Thanos: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thanos
  • What's shawarma?
    No idea.

Anything I forgot?
 
AVENGERS FAQ (because we keep going in circles):

  • Why was Hulk not uncontrollable at the end?
    Banner's second transformation into Hulk was voluntarily. It's been established, in the comics and in The Incredible Hulk, that a voluntary transformation makes Hulk more controllable and means he can distinguish between friend and foe. Banner's first transformation was involuntary, and thus Hulk was much more volatile.
  • How did Thor get back to Earth? Wasn't that rainbow bridge thingy destroyed?
    Thor got back to Earth thanks to Odin using dark magic to teleport him there. Loki mentions this when Thor abducts him. It's implied that this is a very difficult process and a one way ticket - the tesseract is needed to teleport Thor and Loki back to Asgard.
  • What did Hulk say--
    Hulk says "Puny god" after smashing Loki. I'm sorry the audience was too loud.
  • Who was that after the end credits?
    Thanos: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thanos
  • What's shawarma?
    No idea.

Anything I forgot?

AGENT COULSON IS DEAD, MOTHERFUCKS!
 
Question about the Black Widow wanting to be in the fight. She said she was "compromised" and had "red in her ledger" that needed to be wiped out. Basically, she was saying she cared deeply for hawkeye, and wants revenge. And at the same time she'll feel better about her past deeds if she helps save the world.

I got it correct, right?
 
One of my small (main?) beefs with the film was the dress up of female characters. I swear, every woman in there was wearing some sort of high heels. Widow wore wedges for the most part, I think.

I actually appreciated that her outfit wasn't that overly sexy. I mean sure, it was pretty much eye candy, but in comparison how skin-tight it could have been, it's actually far more conservative than I anticipated.
 
This guy is the real villain of the piece, I doubt he's bought Galaga for SHIELD hardware.

FG4V
 
AVENGERS FAQ (because we keep going in circles):

  • Why was Hulk not uncontrollable at the end?
    Banner's second transformation into Hulk was voluntarily. It's been established, in the comics and in The Incredible Hulk, that a voluntary transformation makes Hulk more controllable and means he can distinguish between friend and foe. Banner's first transformation was involuntary, and thus Hulk was much more volatile.
  • How did Thor get back to Earth? Wasn't that rainbow bridge thingy destroyed?
    Thor got back to Earth thanks to Odin using dark magic to teleport him there. Loki mentions this when Thor abducts him. It's implied that this is a very difficult process and a one way ticket - the tesseract is needed to teleport Thor and Loki back to Asgard.
  • What did Hulk say--
    Hulk says "Puny god" after smashing Loki. I'm sorry the audience was too loud.
  • Who was that after the end credits?
    Thanos: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thanos
  • What's shawarma?
    No idea.

Anything I forgot?

WHERE IS SPIDERMAN?!!!
 
This guy is the real villain of the piece, I doubt he's bought Galaga for SHIELD hardware.

FG4V

Thoughtout the whole Helicarrier sequence I kept thinking about how shitty Shield's security is, from Captain America breaking into the secret stash, to Hawkeye infiltrating their airspace with a jet, etc... But that one guy hilariously serves as a good enough explanation.
 
AVENGERS FAQ (because we keep going in circles):

  • Why was Hulk not uncontrollable at the end?
    Banner's second transformation into Hulk was voluntarily. It's been established, in the comics and in The Incredible Hulk, that a voluntary transformation makes Hulk more controllable and means he can distinguish between friend and foe. Banner's first transformation was involuntary, and thus Hulk was much more volatile.
  • How did Thor get back to Earth? Wasn't that rainbow bridge thingy destroyed?
    Thor got back to Earth thanks to Odin using dark magic to teleport him there. Loki mentions this when Thor abducts him. It's implied that this is a very difficult process and a one way ticket - the tesseract is needed to teleport Thor and Loki back to Asgard.
  • What did Hulk say--
    Hulk says "Puny god" after smashing Loki. I'm sorry the audience was too loud.
  • Who was that after the end credits?
    Thanos: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thanos
  • What's shawarma?
    No idea.

Anything I forgot?

If you stick around after credit (it's Marvel movie, of course you all did), all the Avengers went out to the diner serving Shawarma.
 
AVENGERS FAQ (because we keep going in circles):

  • Why was Hulk not uncontrollable at the end?
    Banner's second transformation into Hulk was voluntarily. It's been established, in the comics and in The Incredible Hulk, that a voluntary transformation makes Hulk more controllable and means he can distinguish between friend and foe. Banner's first transformation was involuntary, and thus Hulk was much more volatile.
  • How did Thor get back to Earth? Wasn't that rainbow bridge thingy destroyed?
    Thor got back to Earth thanks to Odin using dark magic to teleport him there. Loki mentions this when Thor abducts him. It's implied that this is a very difficult process and a one way ticket - the tesseract is needed to teleport Thor and Loki back to Asgard.
  • What did Hulk say--
    Hulk says "Puny god" after smashing Loki. I'm sorry the audience was too loud.
  • Who was that after the end credits?
    Thanos: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thanos
  • What's shawarma?
    No idea.

Anything I forgot?

Is Shwarma that unpopular in the US?
There's a lot of Amerigaffers who have no idea what Shawarma actually is.
It's really popular everywhere else in the world.
 
Thoughtout the whole Helicarrier sequence I kept thinking about how shitty Shield's security is, from Captain America breaking into the secret stash, to Hawkeye infiltrating their airspace with a jet, etc... But that one guy hilariously serves as a good enough explanation.

It's SHIELD, if our not a named agent you will suck and get owned somehow.
 
Question about the Black Widow wanting to be in the fight. She said she was "compromised" and had "red in her ledger" that needed to be wiped out. Basically, she was saying she cared deeply for hawkeye, and wants revenge. And at the same time she'll feel better about her past deeds if she helps save the world.

I got it correct, right?

Loki compromised her. She played off that scene like she was fine, but clearly wasn't. She does have feelings for Hawkeye, but the red ink in her ledger is all the bad stuff she had done before joining Shield. She was a spy long before joining the good guys.
 
Sometimes, in various canons, the Hulk and Banner are two totally different personalities, but the Hulk is kinda a sound guy, just with, well, anger issues. (See: EMH.) Whilst this didn't go that far, people who are familiar enough with the character should be able to swallow the Hulk doing a good deed easily enough.
 
AVENGERS FAQ (because we keep going in circles):

  • Why was Hulk not uncontrollable at the end?
    Banner's second transformation into Hulk was voluntarily. It's been established, in the comics and in The Incredible Hulk, that a voluntary transformation makes Hulk more controllable and means he can distinguish between friend and foe. Banner's first transformation was involuntary, and thus Hulk was much more volatile.
  • How did Thor get back to Earth? Wasn't that rainbow bridge thingy destroyed?
    Thor got back to Earth thanks to Odin using dark magic to teleport him there. Loki mentions this when Thor abducts him. It's implied that this is a very difficult process and a one way ticket - the tesseract is needed to teleport Thor and Loki back to Asgard.
  • What did Hulk say--
    Hulk says "Puny god" after smashing Loki. I'm sorry the audience was too loud.
  • Who was that after the end credits?
    Thanos: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thanos
  • What's shawarma?
    No idea.

Anything I forgot?

Black Widow's Ledger
Hulk unable to lift Mjolnir
 
I love how the movie was actually funny at parts. Forgot to mention that earlier! Also the Hulk was handled so well, I am glad Iron Man wasnt the centre of the movie, and the non super powered Avengers had major roles too!
 
Is Shwarma that unpopular in the US?
There's a lot of Amerigaffers who have no idea what Shawarma actually is.
It's really popular everywhere else in the world.

Doner kebab is a much more popular equivalent in the UK. Otherwise, I knew pretty much what it was - I was being obtuse.
 
Is Shwarma that unpopular in the US?
There's a lot of Amerigaffers who have no idea what Shawarma actually is.
It's really popular everywhere else in the world.

Mostly known in urban centers, or something similar (gyro, doner kebab). Depends on where you live.
 
I love how the movie was actually funny at parts. Forgot to mention that earlier! Also the Hulk was handled so well, I am glad Iron Man wasnt the centre of the movie, and the non super powered Avengers had major roles too!

"He's adopted."


That line killed at my theater.
 
I love how the movie was actually funny at parts. Forgot to mention that earlier! Also the Hulk was handled so well, I am glad Iron Man wasnt the centre of the movie, and the non super powered Avengers had major roles too!

I thought Captain America would get overshadowed by all the big leagues, but damn, that's a nice job with the characterization. The "Why the hell should I follow your order" and "Hulk Smash" scenes got me. "A voice that can command a God... and does", indeed.
 
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