You're right. We should take games and price out of the equation when comparing consoles. It's the only way that makes sense.
Worldwide Vita Sales Revealed in Sony Earnings Call (1.8 million)
- Thread starter Deadly Cyclone
- Start date
You're right. We should take games and price out of the equation when comparing consoles. It's the only way that makes sense.
yurinka
Member
For western markets (specially Europe) yes, but not for Japan.
outunderthestars
Banned
Zelda OoT and Mario Kart say hello.
ChiefofCitadelSecurity
Member
Thing needs games, seems like a good product just cake with no icing.
Sony gotta bring the goodies at E3
Sony gotta bring the goodies at E3
Sho_Nuff82
Member
Should have spaced it out. 2 games a week instead of 15 titles going straight to the bomba bin because they didn't sell like Uncharted/FIFA. You get more store traffic that way as well, which spreads WOM.
ThisWreckage
Banned
Their launch line up was fine. Almost everything after that is the problem.
Solid software isn't the issue, the Vita's complete library right now compares well with the 3DS library, they're just missing huge name IPs like Mario to help push the system. This been been somewhat of an issue for the PS3 and PSP early in their life spans. The PSP really benefited by weak competition at the time with no smartphones and a weak entry for the DS.
At the current price point and cost of memory sticks, 1.8 million isn't terrible. Plus Sony is making money on those units sold. Until they see sales completely dry up Sony is fine sitting on this while slowly building up the gaming library to improve mass appeal.
I really think Sony isn't try to get huge sales numbers anymore, but get just enough of a core consumer base that buys software to make it decently profitable. This is going to be a slow process.
At the current price point and cost of memory sticks, 1.8 million isn't terrible. Plus Sony is making money on those units sold. Until they see sales completely dry up Sony is fine sitting on this while slowly building up the gaming library to improve mass appeal.
I really think Sony isn't try to get huge sales numbers anymore, but get just enough of a core consumer base that buys software to make it decently profitable. This is going to be a slow process.
staticneuron
Member
Back in the mid 80's games weren't "That" much more sophisticated that no one would want to play it. Besides tetris is an enjoyable game, it plays well on a handheld and at home. To me recent comparisons can be drawn to a title like lumines.
Your first issue is comparing a sony handheld to a nintendo one. Each base is different. A glance over at a list of best selling PSP games show titles that are better suited for console play (monster hunter, crisis core) and/or already have a larger and flashier console counterpart (GTA, Wipeout, Midnight club, gran turismo, tekken, hot shots golf etc). It torpedoes the idea that what works for nintendo needs to work for sony but that shouldn't be a surprise considering the fans have seemingly always been opposed in terms of preference.
The thing about the DS and the 3DS is that alot of the shifts in gameplay and franchise choices are because of the unique hardware first. It is hard to argue whether the differences are really what make them stand out or is it the following nintendo has gained over the years , simply accepting what has already been set in stone.
It's arguable that MonHun is better suited on a handheld than it is on a home console.
PopcornMegaphone
Banned
Aren't most launches like this? Lot's of games upfront, then a dry period? Vita's launch doesn't seem so different to me.
Sure, more and better software would help, but I think Sony's value proposition for Vita is fundamentally flawed.
ThisWreckage
Banned
Yes, most hardware launches are like that. Like I said earlier, I think it is a terrible business practice. I'm not asking Sony or Nintendo flood the market with six triple A titles per month, but for the first year after launch it is imperative of them to have at least 1 solid release per month. I don't think that's asking a lot.
One announcement at E3 could help them a lot. If Kojima makes a Vita exclusive or if Capcom makes a Resident Evil Vita then I could see that turning heads.
outunderthestars
Banned
THIS. Most launches have a dry spell. I think the bigger problem is trying to sell a $250 -$300 handheld With a memory card and game, most people are walking out of the store well over $300 lighter. I just don't know how much of a market there is for a $300 + handheld platform.
glaringradio
Member
Sony needs to go back 6 months, release the Vita with microSD support, lower the price by £100, then give some sort of incentive to buy into the system... Say "your top 5 PSP games? You can get them for free on the PSVita!".
It's going to be pretty awful watching Sony try to sell the Vita over the next few years. Given that the company itself can't really afford a loss leader.
It's going to be pretty awful watching Sony try to sell the Vita over the next few years. Given that the company itself can't really afford a loss leader.
Mario Kart was a new title and that game is well suited to handheld play. OoT...not so much. Needed a save anywhere feature desperately.
I find that the required play sessions are too long. Everything takes half an hour. Maybe that's why it's mostly geared towards LAN play, so that the session is pre arranged and won't be interrupted. Unfortunately, gamers seem to be moving away from that kind of experiance.
Edit: The problem Vita has is not so much that there are no big hitting games out, but that there aren't many even announced. When 3DS came out a fair chunk of Nintendo's next year or so was announced, thus building hype.
glaringradio
Member
They won't pick up until a price drop is announced... I get the feeling that there are millions of people absolutely wanting a Vita, but they can't justify spending the money on it. In the handheld market, it is simply far too fucking expensive!
Not at all or else it would sell much better. Vita games are not unique. You can play a better version of them on PS3. And I don't think PSVita will ever have enough games. The release schedule will always be sparse, akin to N64. I don't think the industry can handle 4 HD systems and 6 next year.
PopcornMegaphone
Banned
I don't think Vita's problems are just price, although that's part of it. Vita feels like a system designed by neogaf (hardcore gamers). Great graphics and a second analog stick isn't something most people care about or notice, particularly with handhelds.
To be frank, I think Sony's value proposition with Vita is terrible.
UncleSporky
Member
Previous page:
Nintendo's "home console IP" on their portables are nearly always new and different entries in the series. They are also typically preceded by a good 2-3 year break since the previous console entry, long enough for people to be done with it and looking forward to the next entry.
They always have a unique reason to exist.
Look at PSP's best selling "home console IP" games. GoW Chains of Olympus was a unique game. Daxter was unique. MGS Peace Walker was unique.
Uncharted Golden Abyss is unique, but it's also only one game, and as popular as the series is, it's now evident that it doesn't have enough clout to carry an entire platform.
staticneuron
Member
Monster Hunter has proven time and time again that it sells. There is nothing in the game itself, nor pokemon that requires it to be a handheld experience only. I would even state that MonHun might play better on home consoles(or maybe vita) than PSP because of ram.
yurinka
Member
As I remember Nintendo EU numbers doesn't cover EMEA numbers, they only cover some few main best selling EU countries. Same goes with US numbers, do they cover non US American numbers (Canada, Central America, South America)? And do their JP numbers cover the rest of Asia (in some countries the release was closer to JP than to EU/US) numbers?
Not saying that all these other markets can get 350K until March 2012, but it would close. Maybe when Sony says sold it means sold.
These are estimated numbers for entire Europe.
Mammoth Jones
Member
More like "Hey, it's be nice to play this awesome game wherever".
Personally it's "Holy shit, I can play a full featured console game on the train!"
Great games, an aggressive price, and good support (i.e. competitive price w/ mini's/comparable type games) will move units. Always has.
yurinka
Member
As I remember these were the 5 o 6 best selling European countries (UK, France, Germany Spain and some more I think using GFK numbers). Europe has a lot of countries more, and sometimes they for this market not only Europe, they also include Australia, Middle East countries, etc (some companys call it PAL or EMEA).
Edit : I found it.
http://72.52.200.148/forum/showthread.php?t=450015 (example of Nintendo's European numbers)
http://72.52.200.148/forum/showthread.php?t=450015&page=6 (post 282 says UK + Germany + France + Spain in 2011 (Gfk/Chart-Track/Media-Control)
Edit 2 : Reading the page 6 of this thred I think I'm wrong. Looks like it's Nintendo's estimates for all EU but maybe using these numbers as partial reference. Even I'd
bet they did it before as I explained.
Edit 3 :
Even if they are originally home console IPs and most aren't straightports or new games, same goes with the main PSP and Vita games that are from popular home console IPs, and people never mention it when trolling with "PSP/Vita haz only home console game".
So Mario, Mario Kart, Animal Crossing, Zelda, Metroid, Monster Hunter, Ridge Racer, Pilotwings, Mario Party, Ace Combat, Resident Evil, Street Fighter, Tekken, Blazblue, Dead or Alive, Metal Gear, F1, FIFA, Harvest Moon, Kid Icarius, Lego, Luigi's Mansion, Mario Tennis, Ninja Gaiden, Pro Evolution, Pro Yakkiu, Gundam, Rayman, Shinobi, Sims, Star Fox and Smash Bros should be counted as home console games.
Same goes with a shit ton of similar DS games, with the difference that it wasn't able to hold contemporany gen games.
People come to CoD for the multiplayer and you won't be doing that on a train over 3G as it won't be supported and the ping is dreadful anyway. You won't be doing it with public wi-fi ping either.
UncleSporky
Member
Not at all. Compare to the DS numbers further up the page.
DS best sellers start at 26.88 million and end at 5 million.
PSP best sellers start at 4.12 million and end at 1 million.
The PSP's best selling game couldn't beat DS's 14th best selling game.
Perhaps if Sony had worked to get one of those Nintendo-like experiences on their portable, it could've sold just as well. But they didn't. The best they've got are Monster Hunter games, which you're currently arguing are better suited to home consoles. That's exactly why they couldn't compete.
The unique hardware first? NSMB is DS's best selling game and the dual screen is minimally used. Same for Mario Kart DS, the Pokemon games and Mario 64 DS. The games they made that most center around the unique hardware are things like Phantom Hourglass, which was critically panned by Zelda fans for being unwieldy.
The 3D in OoT 3D is no better than in any other company's game. Nintendo hasn't done anything with 3D that nobody else could do.
"The hardware is designed around Nintendo's games" is something commonly quoted that doesn't often bear out if you look at their most popular games.
And the argument that "Nintendo's sheeplike following buys everything the company shits out" is laughable. Look at Skyward Sword, long anticipated, yet released to disappointing sales. Other M was a wet dream at announcement and everyone hated it once it came out, and again, disappointing sales.
Nintendo's games sell on their own merits, same as Sony's. Any "Nintendo following" would be identical to the "Sony following," but history shows us that followings don't mean much. Gamecube was third place and PS2 was first. Fortunes reversed this gen, and they may do the same next time around. The experiences offered by the company are first and foremost in consumers' minds, and Sony's portables simply haven't offered the kind of portable experiences consumers are looking for. Sales have proven this. Call of Duty will fail to save the system and prove this once again.
Admiral Bone to Pick
Banned
Edit: Wrong thread.
outunderthestars
Banned
I think the Vita would do much better at $199.99 with an 8GB memory card. Sadly Sony cannot afford to drop the price due to their fatal flaw: feature bloat.
The Vita doesn't need a bunch of cameras, rear touch, 3g, etc. I think the market would have preferred a simpler device at a lower price, rather than what we ended up getting
fluffydelusions
Member
I've only seen one ad for Vita and it was that MLB 12 one...saw it like 2 times.
Admiral Bone to Pick
Banned
Actually I meant to make my post in the other thread (more Sony's financial standing), but I'll address this:
I absolutely agree with you. I think the Vita would greatly benefit from a stripped down SKU with fewer features and a more affordable price point (plus a bundled memory card as you mentioned). They're just not going to be able to compete with Apple in features.
chickdigger802
Banned
It still doesn't make it good though
But to be fair, mario 64 ds was pretty great. And that metroid prime hunters demo alone sold me on a ds.
UncleSporky
Member
You're too focused on the fact that people say "home console games" are the problem.
I'm saying that's not the problem. Nobody cares whether it's a home console game or not. Sure, your list is fine. I don't know if you can really state that "Mario games" are home console games, but whatever. That's not what matters.
What matters is if the game is unique and/or a proper new entry in the series after it's had a chance to rest for a few years. There has to be breathing room to get the public excited.
Mario 3D Land is quite unique and we haven't had a Mario game in a while. Uncharted Golden Abyss was released 3 months after Uncharted 3. You've heard of "sent to die," right? Same situation with Silent Hill HD Collection, Downpour, and Book of Memories.
Give the public a chance to want more, and give them something different.
yurinka
Member
Ok thanks
Portugeezer
Member
How to save vita:
announce this:
or this:
heck even this will do:
So basically ports?
outunderthestars
Banned
This. The best PSP versions of existing franchises were the ones who tried to do something really different while still existing in the franchises universe: Daxter, Secret Agent Clank, Prinny, Killzone Liberation etc
So far the Vita has lacked that. The games like Uncharted, Wipeout, Uncarted, Little Big Planet, Modnation, Killzone, etc all seem way too similar to their console counterparts.
I adore my Vita, but don't own a single vita game for it. So far I've only used it as a Super PSP.
Sony, where the hell is my new Ape Escape? If ever a game was a perfect fit for a platform......
yurinka
Member
Considering the main PSP shooters, Monster Hunter and main GTA PSP games, not exactly.
Dacvak
No one shall be brought before our LORD David Bowie without the true and secret knowledge of the Photoshop. For in that time, so shall He appear.
This is just history sort of repeating itself. The Vita will be fine - it'll probably do about as well as the PSP did, maybe a bit less. The 3DS will probably do about as well as the DS / DS Lite did. Both will be fine.
yurinka
Member
Here we agree. Even if Uncharted GA is a brand new game separated from the PS3 ones and it makes (maybe too much) use of the new controls its release was too close to U3 so maybe stealed a good portion of sales.
Obviously I still didn't played Killzone or LBP, and skipped Modnation because I heard it sucks, but Uncharted is a brand new game that uses a lot the touchscreen (maybe too much) for touchscreen based puzzles, throw grenades, shitty QTE, easier climbing and others. It also even uses the camera for a cool trick and the motion sensor to aim and others.
Wipeout is a totally new game with stuff like Near, an on-line campaign, all new tracks and ships (excluding the WOHD ones are limited just for the crossplay PS3&PSV multiplayer), weapons separated in attack and defense item pods, touch / motion stuff (that I never use), the upcoming AR museum, etc.
And well for Modnation and LBP the level editors using touchscreen look great.
It still doesn't make it good though
But to be fair, mario 64 ds was pretty great. And that metroid prime hunters demo alone sold me on a ds.
That's why I don't take you seriously. Mario 64 DS was a piece of shit. MPH demo didn't sell the console.
DS had a shitty launch line-up. It's the best handheld ever for another set of reasons, the launch line-up definitely isn't it. And it's not better than Vita's line-up, neither PSP line-ups.
bigtroyjon
Member
lol, the Vita and 3DS put together won't do as much as the DS.
staticneuron
Member
But of course.... except every single bestseller on the DS list with the exception of one title (Dragon Quest IX ) is Nintendo IP.
Lets break it down even further.
Out of 14 titles
3 are from the brain age series
4 are pokemon
4 are mario titles
And there is nintendogs and animal crossing thrown in for good measure.
Like I said before, the nintendo fans follow franchises. It is not about just the experience and Sony would be amiss to try to follow them because they would alienate their current base going after a base who's needs are already fulfilled.
And nintendo titles tend to be heavily skewed towards very recognizable franchise and titles and historically the playstations never were like than. The tastes of the fans are to varied. Examples? Despite the playstation 1 and playstion 2 selling well over 100 million units NOT ONE of their best sellers surpass 18 million. Yet nintendo, constantly has titles that surpass 20 million even with a smaller install base. Which systems are known to have a healthier balance with third parties? I prefer the consoles with the more varied libraries. And so do millions of other people. Because nintendo carved out their corner in stone, doesn't mean that "any" company can or should attempt to do the same.
There is so much here that is very false. I already have addressed sales and historical leanings above. And the way "you" frame the discussion for nintendo followers are very different from what I would say. I am not sure why you are even trying to project that on me.
People have preferences. Nintendo caters to those preferences very well. I grew up playing nintendo consoles and I KNOW people are following the franchises thanks to quality in addition to established names. That doesn't make a person sheep, that makes them smart.
But again, nintendo caters to a wide crowd and numberwise it is fairly large.
Sony has offered experiences that their fans were looking for but in terms of the PSP, they dropped the ball the first few years and that was enough for it to go out of some gamers minds. Added that with repeated misconceptions about the library and its no mystery why the software sales look like that. Alot of PSP owners in certain regions stopped paying attention to the library.
Sony is offering their own thing and that needs to be different from nintendo. Now once you understand that all consumers do not have nintendo preferences then you would understand that trying to compare the two is always a recipe for failure.
fabricated backlash
Member
When has Sony ever reported sold to customer numbers?
staticneuron
Member
NONE of the big 3 do that unless they are quoting an independent tracker (NPD, Chartrack, MC, famitsu)
Brofist
Member
As great as that sounds in your head in reality the number of people thinking that is probably fewer than you think.
Ummmm, 3DS is crushing DS right now. (lifetime to this point) And 3DS has only one holiday, DS had two by the 14 month mark.