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[Fbh]

Square Enix management when they realize the gamers who played Final Fantasy VII in 1997 might want to play something made for grown ups in 2025.

Square aseems to still hold this outdated view that they can't challenge their players or make games too complex (at least the AAA ones), because it will scare away the casual players and it won't appeal to literally everyone on the planet and they will sell less because of it.

Meanwhile more complex games that actually trust their players enough to challenge them and give them more in depth mechanics, like Elden Ring and Baldur's Gate 3 , are selling gangbusters. It's almost as if the main audience playing on traditional consoles and/or PC and willing to spend $70 on an RPG is more experienced players, and not people who saw an ad on youtube and decided to jump from Candy crush to FF16.

Even fucking Zelda, a franchise known for exhausting tutorials and treating players like retards, realized they could ease up a bit and make a more challenging game that allows players to figure out some stuff on their own (and sold better than ever doing so). But Square seems to double down on building mainline FF games from the ground up to be as "accessible" as possible.

 

[DarkstarRising13]

In my opinion yes but the game just did not vibe with me at all and I love JRPGs.

Glad to see smaller developers find success though. It's a great success for their size. All the jabs at Square Enix are weird though; FF7 Remakes and FF16 didn't sell "poorly" because they're bad games. They sold poorly because they were morons and signed a deal with Sony.

Those deals you people on echo chamber online sites like Reddit and here on Neogaf criticize were made years in advance, long before the thought of "poor" sales even registered in Square Enix and various other developers' minds. Plus, Square Enix is going to regret giving the finger to Sony because if I were an executive working at Sony and saw those out-of-touch executives at Square Enix criticize us for helping them out over the years and giving them development help and funds all because they are not happy with the sales nuymbers, I would cut ties with that company in an instant

Additionally, I'm unsure if the individuals in this echo chamber, like you, and those on Reddit, are aware that games like the FF7 Remake Trilogy wouldn't have been made without Sony funding projects like this. I betcha Square Enix wouldn't have greenlit the project because of their fear of the high cost of making it.

The only people who bitch about exclusive are - again - Xrats and PC gamers who need to shut their f'ing mouth before they spray their acid mouth on the internet. Oh, if the FF7 Remake trilogy turned out to be - god forbid - Xbox exclusivity, then these people would just admit that they're Xrats.

 

[Scrawnton]

Those deals you people on echo chamber online sites like Reddit and here on Neogaf criticize were made years in advance, long before the thought of "poor" sales even registered in Square Enix and various other developers' minds. Plus, Square Enix is going to regret giving the finger to Sony because if I were an executive working at Sony and saw those out-of-touch executives at Square Enix criticize us for helping them out over the years and giving them development help and funds all because they are not happy with the sales nuymbers, I would cut ties with that company in an instant

Additionally, I'm unsure if the individuals in this echo chamber, like you, and those on Reddit, are aware that games like the FF7 Remake Trilogy wouldn't have been made without Sony funding projects like this. I betcha Square Enix wouldn't have greenlit the project because of their fear of the high cost of making it.

The only people who bitch about exclusive are - again - Xrats and PC gamers who need to shut their f'ing mouth before they spray their acid mouth on the internet. Oh, if the FF7 Remake trilogy turned out to be - god forbid - Xbox exclusivity, then these people would just admit that they're Xrats.

I bought them on PS4/5. But apparently Sony gamers didn't show up and its fair for Square to not be happy about the situation. The fuck are you even talking about? Daddy Herman is proud of you. I'm sure you'll get your dinner invitation in the mail soon.

I can't stop laughing at this post.

 

[yogaflame]

Well deserve. Congratulations. It will be a big challenge for them for there next project since Ex33 is very good. Expectations are high.

 

[ReBurn]

That sounds like it's probably good

 

[DarkstarRising13]

I bought them on PS4/5. But apparently Sony gamers didn't show up and its fair for Square to not be happy about the situation. The fuck are you even talking about? Daddy Herman is proud of you. I'm sure you'll get your dinner invitation in the mail soon.

I can't stop laughing at this post.

Herman Hulst can go f himself. The man's already on thin ice, and I won't be surprised if he resigns sometime this year. I'm not siding with that douchebag or Sony's board of directors for their obsession with live service. What I'm trying to say is Square Enix is going to be burning bridges with a publisher/developers that has stood by their years of mismanagement, all because they are not happy with sales numbers. A decision they are going to regret, as without Sony's backing, they'll have to sell even more copies to break even, as Sony was covering their marketing budget and optimization. It's bad enough they can barely do with it one console; add in PC, Nintendo, and maybe Xbox, then... well, I wouldn't want to be in their situation.

Quit laughing because I'm stating the facts. FF7 Remake Trilogy would not have existed without Sony's funding. And Square Enix would be more stupid than they already are if they were to put the trilogy as an Xbox exclusive - that Remake trilogy would have been cancelled immediately after the first part flopped.

FF fans were not happy with the story changes that the developers did for the Remake and were NOT happy about splitting it into three parts. That's the reason for the lower than expected sales.

 

[WoJ]

Even fucking Zelda, a franchise known for exhausting tutorials and treating players like retards, realized they could ease up a bit and make a more challenging game that allows players to figure out some stuff on their own (and sold better than ever doing so).

Okay this made me laugh out loud. Just needed to say that lol.

Well deserved to Sandfall. I just finished Act 1 last night and love the game so far. As others have said, what I've seen so far in this game is what I thought we'd be getting from Final Fantasy and other JRPGs post FFX. I really hope developers take notice of what this game does right.

 

[ProtoByte]

FF fans were not happy with the story changes that the developers did for the Remake and were NOT happy about splitting it into three parts. That's the reason for the lower than expected sales.

I think it's mostly to do with the fact that the FF7 stone doesn't have any more blood to squeeze out of it. It's practically an IP in itself that's been overexposed for more than 20 years.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

This game will easily blow thru 5 million sold even before it wins GOTY at TGA

Then we'll see what the fuck is up after the TGA boost

 

[Hypereides]

very well deserved. I'm blown away at what they accomplished. I really think it's a masterpiece of game design.

This is the kind of thing I wish Square-Enix would've shifted 25 years ago instead of the infantile Tetsuya Nomura cringe shit.

The irony is that the older Squaresoft games actually had more mature undertones and look to them, like FFVI for instance. The people who took over Squaresoft, along with Enix upon the merger, had no understanding of the craftsmanship that went into the IPs they acquired and inherited from Squaresoft's glory days.

 

[DarkstarRising13]

Congrats to Sandfall Interactive. I've been anticapting Clair Obscur: Expedition 33 since I first saw its trailer last year, and I was so happy that we were getting the closest thing to a spiritual successor to Lost Odyssey. And - oh boy - did this game not disappoint. Everything about it was like wine in a bottle that had emerged from decades in storage. Gorgeous graphics, outstanding art direction, a beautiful story and character development, and an intriguing gameplay that combines the best of previous turn-based games such as Lost Odyssey, Legend of the Dragoon, Shadow Hearts, and FF8/10.

3.3 million copies sold on a budget estimated to be around 20 million dollars, give or take.

 

[Brigandier]

Yeah okay great, let's not make a thread for each sale now, 3+ million is already a good spot to celebrate, 3.3 million a bit less

You could always just simply scroll past instead of coming into the thread and start whining.

very well deserved. I'm blown away at what they accomplished. I really think it's a masterpiece of game design.

This is the kind of thing I wish Square-Enix would've shifted 25 years ago instead of the infantile Tetsuya Nomura cringe shit.

I totally agree, SE are so out of touch it's not even funny anymore, FFXVI was a step in the right direction character wise but the rest? Not so much, I think a lot of people feel the same way, I liked Rebirth but some of the clown behaviour with a lot of the characters was just cringe.

We got the news for 500k, for 1 million, for 2 million, now for 3.3 million

Making a thread each time to have the same type of response, eh.

I know I won't be here for the thread about 3.76 million units

That's great news now kindly

 

[GateofD]

32 devs did not make Clair Obscur by themselves. They outsourced all the animations to a South Korean company and Lord knows what else was outsourced

Every studio does this and outsources some stuff. The 500 dev team studios does as well. You don't count the Uber eats driver that brings the team bagels and coffee every morning as part of your core team.

 

[Lionel Richie]

I think you missed my point.

Possibly friend, what was your point?

 

[Haint]

32 devs did not make Clair Obscur by themselves. They outsourced all the animations to a South Korean company and Lord knows what else was outsourced

Every game outsources everything to China and Korea though so the relative headcount is still a valid point.

 

[Raven117]

Possibly friend, what was your point?

The point isnt' to have "copycats." The point is the moving away from the infantile. That there is a market thirsty for games that treat them like adults, that explore real themes, leaves things up to interpretation.

There used to be a discussion about whether video games were art. That has fallen by the way side as games were really only ways to monitize you as a player going forward. This..this is a revisiting that games can be Art.

 

[MSduderino]

The point isnt' to have "copycats." The point is the moving away from the infantile. That there is a market thirsty for games that treat them like adults, that explore real themes, leaves things up to interpretation.

There used to be a discussion about whether video games were art. That has fallen by the way side as games were really only ways to monitize you as a player going forward. This..this is a revisiting that games can be Art.

Well put. E33 is refreshing in many ways, not least of which is the artistry.

 

[Majukun]

I personally think it will be. This game's success will be difficult for anyone (or any company) making games to ignore.

it won't

it is a critic success and it made some money.

but big execs don't want just some money, they want all of the money

and for that they need to squeeze their players dry with monetization.

it will probably give courage to some indie developers to aim higher and that it can be done if you are smart and passionate

 

[Lionel Richie]

The point isnt' to have "copycats." The point is the moving away from the infantile. That there is a market thirsty for games that treat them like adults, that explore real themes, leaves things up to interpretation.

There used to be a discussion about whether video games were art. That has fallen by the way side as games were really only ways to monitize you as a player going forward. This..this is a revisiting that games can be Art.

Dark Souls did that? It feels like revisionism, I don't remember many discussions about how it moved games "away from the infantile" and DS isn't particularly deep compared to a lot of games that came before it.

 

[Raven117]

Dark Souls did that? It feels like revisionism, I don't remember many discussions about how it moved games "away from the infantile" and DS isn't particularly deep compared to a lot of games that came before it.

Are you an idiot?

Dark Souls was a moment in time when everything about the industry was skewing towards the very casual. 12-15 hour experiences, super casual. Dark Souls was a watershed moment where it showed developers that difficulty could be a feature in games.

Expedition 33 could be another watershed moment where it shows the industry that there is a market for games that are not "infantile" and that mature and deep themes can be explored.

 

[Nydius]

I wish they could get a reliable pipeline of physical copies to market. I want to buy this and contribute to their sales success but this is a game I feel deserves to be owned and shown off in a physical collection. No way in hell am I paying what people on eBay want for it.

 

[MSduderino]

I personally think it will be. This game's success will be difficult for anyone (or any company) making games to ignore.

I hope you are right, but the problem is Sandfall is independent and that gave them more creative freedom. For big publishers to learn from this, they need to give more creative control to the devs, which will provide uncertainty to shareholders.

 

[Last Hearth]

it won't

it is a critic success and it made some money.

but big execs don't want just some money, they want all of the money

and for that they need to squeeze their players dry with monetization.

it will probably give courage to some indie developers to aim higher and that it can be done if you are smart and passionate

Slap the name FFXVI on this game and it would have sold 10 million copies.

 

[sendit]

My penis is 3.3 inches fully structured and i have exactly 33 hours played in this game.

 

[MonkD]

Good word of mouth will keep the sales up for a while longer. I'd be interested to see what a GotY award could do for it too. And a sale.

 

[GateofD]

People will see the $45 price tag and think it's already on sale

 

[manfestival]

beat this game the other day and I played it on gamepass. Fantastic experience overall and without a doubt the best frpg I have ever played

 

[Sanepar]

33 devs this game probably cost less than 50 mi to be made. They will make a lot of money. I hope they don't be stupid to inflate the studio with more than 100 devs for next project.

 

[GateofD]

They will make 3-4 more bangers till they get bought out by a big studio and killed like every acquisition in the past 15 years. And then the survivors will form their own small studio. And Tomorrow Comes

 

[Unknown Soldier]

They will make 3-4 more bangers till they get bought out by a big studio and killed like every acquisition in the past 15 years. And then the survivors will form their own small studio. And Tomorrow Comes

WHEN ONE FALLS, WE CONTINUE

 

[Lionel Richie]

Are you an idiot?

Dark Souls was a moment in time when everything about the industry was skewing towards the very casual. 12-15 hour experiences, super casual. Dark Souls was a watershed moment where it showed developers that difficulty could be a feature in games.

Expedition 33 could be another watershed moment where it shows the industry that there is a market for games that are not "infantile" and that mature and deep themes can be explored.

First of all, suck my big fat balls man, there's no need for hostility because I questioned your view on this, you're attributing to Dark Souls and now Clair Obscur something that was done before in the industry recently, be it the exploration of "real themes" or the concept of difficulty. Clair Obscur has terrific writing and yeah, every game should have terrific writing, but we rarely get that. Dark Souls has terrific level design and difficulty balance and once again, every game should have that.

My point is that instead of applying the design philosophy of DS into other games, we got copycats. We got "soulslike" that distil that into a repeatable formula. Considering the bad history of the industry with learning the right lessons from its influential games, I fully expect Expedition 33 to spawn the new age of parrying in turn based combat while ignoring everything else the game does right.

 

[Lokaum D+]

it won't

it is a critic success and it made some money.

but big execs don't want just some money, they want all of the money

and for that they need to squeeze their players dry with monetization.

it will probably give courage to some indie developers to aim higher and that it can be done if you are smart and passionate

Say that to Suicide and Concord ( and many others ) executives, they would be 100% more happy with some money then No money.

 

[Black_Stride]

We. Continue!!!!!

 

[Majukun]

Say that to Suicide and Concord ( and many others ) executives, they would be 100% more happy with some money then No money.

the guys who burned (allegedly) 400 mln dollars on a new IP chasing "the future of playstation" would not even consider the project.
they are ok with faling 4 times if the 5th is a fortnite..slow and steady growth is not in their vocabulary

 

[Evil Calvin]

Yeah okay great, let's not make a thread for each sale now, 3+ million is already a good spot to celebrate, 3.3 million a bit less

Whoooosh!!

 

[Evil Calvin]

Sales look great.

Not sure if it will entice SE to make next Final Fantasy like this.

But at least they should up the budget for their smaller titles.

I initially read it as 'titties' and thought....that checks out

 

[GloveSlap]

very well deserved. I'm blown away at what they accomplished. I really think it's a masterpiece of game design.

This is the kind of thing I wish Square-Enix would've shifted 25 years ago instead of the infantile Tetsuya Nomura cringe shit.

It totally feels like a Squaresoft game from some alternate reality where they took a much better path.

 

[mckmas8808]

beat this game the other day and I played it on gamepass. Fantastic experience overall and without a doubt the best frpg I have ever played

Sad that you didn't purchase it.

 

[playbignbox]

They deserve much more, the game is spectacular.

 

[Zacfoldor]

I guarantee you they got an extra million in sales purely because it is a 50$ title

There has to be SOME reason this is doing so much better than Doom, right?

 

[BennyBlanco]

Sad that you didn't purchase it.

Uhh why? The devs made a gamepass deal. Do you feel the same way about people streaming movies that you like?

On topic, how incredible is this OST? I finished the game weeks ago and still can't stop listening to it.

 

[Gaiff]

Expedition 33 could be another watershed moment where it shows the industry that there is a market for games that are not "infantile" and that mature and deep themes can be explored.

I thought TLOU did that already?

 

[mckmas8808]

Uhh why? The devs made a gamepass deal. Do you feel the same way about people streaming movies that you like?

For movies that I feel are some of the best of all time...............yeah buy them.

 

[DonkeyPunchJr]

I thought TLOU did that already?

True, there have been plenty of games with mature stories. It'd be more accurate to say Clair Obscur shows that JRPGs don't have to be written for teens and weebs.