Marvel's The Avengers |OT| (Dir. Joss Whedon) [Spoilers unmarked]

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Wheeljack539 said:
That bit seemed like it was more directed with Tony and Steve and it affected Tony a lot more. Bruce never knew him not to mention Thor was not even on the ship for Fury's card push.
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Still LOL.

Black Widow said Loki had killed what, 80 people, in the last few days; that wasn't enough to get these "heroes" to band together and take some action? The death of some agent who knowingly put himself in harms way is what bands them together? "This is for Phil!", really? What about the tons of other innocent lives that perished as a result of your inability to behave like an adult? Fuck you, Iron Man.

EviLore said he felt embarrassed for the film using Coulson's death as a device to get them to assemble, I agree. It's offensively stupid; can't really blame Whedon for that one though because apparently Marvel Studios shoehorned that in? Just another example of them exerting too much control over a film and negatively effecting it.
 
Did anyone else feel like they were setting a slight "civil warish" tone at the end of the film during the news reels? There was an awful lot of conflicting good and bad backlash.
 
Auron_Kale said:
I never got the loathing for the guy, to be honest. He was this quirky, persistent guy that seemed to be annoying Tony in IM, but you kinda had a feeling up until he reveals that he's with S.H.I.E.L.D. that he was going to be important. He definitely became a favorite for me after Thor as well as his one-shots.

The way he died, definite shock to me and my friends.

Hopefully we find out about the cellist in Portland.
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Quint: I don’t know about that, but I think that’s why a lot of people are grabbing on to these Vision rumors and they are grasping at straws admittedly like “Wanda was a cellist in one of the books, so maybe that’s the in” or all of that stuff.

Clark Gregg: Scarlet Witch?

Quint: Yeah. I don’t know, I think it could be done well…
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:)
 
Platy said:
The internet says that ""The Avengers" is an American sentai show."

Wich means Scarlet is the pink ranger and Hulk is .....the giant robot.
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THE AVENGERS is a movie we always wanted that we finally got. Not some other shitty film imitation group of superheroes like the shitty Fantastic Four or the cruddy old x-men movies. We got a movie of the big league superheroes we always wanted.

Sentai? I think not, cause this is predating Sentai by a good 20 years.
 
Good Job Bob said:
Still LOL.

Black Widow said Loki had killed what, 80 people, in the last few days; that wasn't enough to get these "heroes" to band together and take some action? The death of some agent who knowingly put himself in harms way is what bands them together? "This is for Phil!", really? What about the tons of other innocent lives that perished as a result of your inability to behave like an adult? Fuck you, Iron Man.
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I don't see how loki destroying the PEGASUS base in the beginning had anything to do with IM or Cap. Cap was looking to take down Loki, team or not, because of the Cube and IM was not dismissing Loki either. The "push" was them losing someone they both knew and coming to the realization that even if they don't get along, they have to put their differences aside to bring down the bad guy. The key here is someone they knew.
 
G-Fex said:
THE AVENGERS is a movie we always wanted that we finally got. Not some other shitty film imitation group of superheroes like the shitty Fantastic Four or the cruddy old x-men movies. We got a movie of the big league superheroes we always wanted.

Sentai? I think not, cause this is predating Sentai by a good 20 years.
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Marvel help create sentai.
 
Iron Man with the nuke was the greatest slam dunk ever.

Platy said:
The internet says that ""The Avengers" is an American sentai show."

Wich means Scarlet is the pink ranger and Hulk is .....the giant robot.
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You could go past Sentai and say it's American Gojira, with hapless people trying to stop it

But comic books are better anyways. Bring on Giant Man
 
Nesotenso said:
I don't see how loki destroying the PEGASUS base in the beginning had anything to do with IM or Cap. Cap was looking to take down Loki, team or not, because of the Cube and IM was not dismissing Loki either. The "push" was them losing someone they both knew and coming to the realization that even if they don't get along, they have to put their differences aside to bring down the bad guy. The key here is someone they knew.
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The guy killed a bunch of people and made his plans for world destruction pretty clear, but yeah, nothing to do with Captain America and Iron Man at all. :lol

..but the death of straight-edge humorous SHIELD agent they barely knew? HOLY SHIT THIS LOKI GUY'S SERIOUS WE HAVE TO TAKE HIM DOWN!
 
Tobor said:
:)
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If it is Scarlet Witch, hopefully they at least acknowledge the character without the wrath of Fox in subsequent movies.

But yes, hopefully there's another one-shot of him in the Avengers BD. I'd strangely love for it to be of him looking through the files of his S.H.I.E.L.D. charges (probably Hawkeye & BW) after someone calls him out on being their handler, since he is just that amongst other things.
 
Good Job Bob said:
Still LOL.

Black Widow said Loki had killed what, 80 people, in the last few days; that wasn't enough to get these "heroes" to band together and take some action? The death of some agent who knowingly put himself in harms way is what bands them together? "This is for Phil!", really? What about the tons of other innocent lives that perished as a result of your inability to behave like an adult? Fuck you, Iron Man.
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Not really, those 80 were the ones who got trapped or left behind when that base collapsed on itself. Those were SHIELD agents and soldiers, no one gets up in arms when someone dies during a war/catastrophe.

They do, however, when it's in your backyard and with a key figurehead, in this case the guy basically one step below Fury got killed in his own home, so to speak.

It isn't that outrageous, tbh.
 
BannedEpisode said:
Disney buying Marvel is the best thing that has ever happened to that company. They need to find a way to wrangle the rest of the Marvel IP's back.
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Will not happen unless Disney offers illegal amounts of money to Sony and Fox. If Im not mistaken, they dont even have the theme parks rights for a number of heroes, as Universal Studios grabbed those up.
 
Sentry said:
Not really, those 80 were the ones who got trapped or left behind when that base collapsed on itself. Those were SHIELD agents and soldiers, no one gets up in arms when someone dies during a war/catastrophe.

They do, however, when it's in your backyard and with a key figurehead, in this case the guy basically one step below Fury got killed in his own home, so to speak.

It isn't that outrageous, tbh.
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GJB is right. Goddamn Marvel for giving that Disney page creative control.
 
Auron_Kale said:
If it is Scarlet Witch, hopefully they at least acknowledge the character without the wrath of Fox in subsequent movies.

But yes, hopefully there's another one-shot of him in the Avengers BD. I'd strangely love for it to be of him looking through the files of his S.H.I.E.L.D. charges (probably Hawkeye & BW) after someone calls him out on being their handler, since he is just that amongst other things.
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It's grasping at straws, like Quint said. I just thought it was funny how deep people will go with looking for Easter eggs.
 
It felt like the push was more for Tony than Cap. Stark knew Coulson for years, and was clearly on friendly terms with him. He didn't care until he died. He was clearly grieving. The Cap cards were just to drive the point home.
 
Good Job Bob said:
The guy killed a bunch of people and made his plans for world destruction pretty clear, but yeah, nothing to do with Captain America and Iron Man at all. :lol

..but the death of straight-edge humorous SHIELD agent they barely knew? HOLY SHIT THIS LOKI GUY'S SERIOUS WE HAVE TO TAKE HIM DOWN!
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Do you even read what you type ?

Your initial post was about how people died and how somehow Cap's and IM's inability to behave like adults was the cause. This is just stupid they weren't even involved in Fury's plan at that time. They barely knew argument doesn't hold because Coulson was bugging Stark in both IM movies and for Cap he was only one of the SHIELD agents he knew in the present and who clearly idolized him.
 
Sentry said:
Not really, those 80 were the ones who got trapped or left behind when that base collapsed on itself. Those were SHIELD agents and soldiers, no one gets up in arms when someone dies during a war/catastrophe.

They do, however, when it's in your backyard and with a key figurehead, in this case the guy basically one step below Fury got killed in his own home, so to speak.

It isn't that outrageous, tbh.
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That's funny, because I remember a specific scene in Iron Man where Tony literally got up in arms to save people on the other side of the planet. Also, Steve Rogers spent half of Captain America talking about how important is was for him to go out and serve in a war.
 
I thought it wasn't just that Coulson died, but that they were partly responsible for it that was the point. They knew Loki was going to try turn them against each other, yet they still let their egos get in the way, played right into his hands and therefore put Coulson in his line of fire.
 
Good Job Bob said:
That's funny, because I remember a specific scene in Iron Man where Tony literally got up in arms to save people on the other side of the planet. Also, Steve Rogers spent half of Captain America talking about how important is was for him to go out and serve in a war.
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They didn't disagree the Loki wasn't a threat and needed to be apprehended. They didn't like working together until Coulson's death caused them to put their differences aside.
 
Good Job Bob said:
That's funny, because I remember a specific scene in Iron Man where Tony literally got up in arms to save people on the other side of the planet. Also, Steve Rogers spent half of Captain America talking about how important is was for him to go out and serve in a war.
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Nice selective bolding there, but read the one word before that... those were all civilians, my point was soldiers dying in an unfortunate leveling of a military base isn't exactly the same a Coulson getting killed on the helicarrier.
 
Nesotenso said:

Do you even read what you type ?

Your initial post was about how people died and how somehow Cap's and IM's inability to behave like adults was the cause.
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My initial post was about how it is stupid and contrived for them to be motivated into action by the death of SHIELD agent they barely knew when their were plenty of others who died and also their's the whole threat of world destruction/enslavement..

They barely knew argument doesn't hold because Coulson was bugging Stark in both IM movies and for Cap he was only one of the SHIELD agents he knew in the present and who clearly idolized him.
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Oh, Coulson bugged Stark for a few minutes in both IM movies? Sounds like they really knew eachother well then.

Coulson asked Capt to sign a few of his trading cards? What a great relationship.


Tobor said:
They didn't need motivation to fight Loki. They needed motivation to work as a team.
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Sure, and the death of Coulson motivating them is a mightily contrived and dumb plot device.

I mean, the guy literally said something along the lines of "..They need something to motivate them.." as he died. COME ON.

Sentry said:
Nice selective bolding there, but read the one word before that... those were all civilians, my point was soldiers dying in an unfortunate leveling of a military base isn't exactly the same a Coulson getting killed on the helicarrier.
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Except Coulson was a soldier/agent that put himself in harms way as well?
 
Tony even says right after Coulson dies that he was stupid for going up against Loki alone and that he should have waited for backup. And that's the point - they knew Loki was powerful enough to be a threat, they knew he allowed himself to be captured and they still fell victim to his plan to keep them divided and distracted. Coulson dying and the attack on the carrier was a slap in the face, a reminder that they needed to stop bickering and get on the same page. I think his death works fine.
 
Good Job Bob said:
Oh, Coulson bugged Stark for a few minutes in both IM movies? Sounds like they really knew eachother well then.
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Coulson helped cover up Stane's death, thus basically saving Stark's ass. And that's just IM1.

Avengers pretty clearly shows that both Pepper and Tony know Coulson, know him well, and have for years.
 
BronsonLee said:
Coulson helped cover up Stane's death, thus basically saving Stark's ass. And that's just IM1.

Avengers pretty clearly shows that both Pepper and Tony know Coulson, know him well, and have for years.
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I seem to recall Stark being shocked at how informal Pepper was with Coulson, going on to say his first name is 'Agent' clearly implying they've never interacted outside of a formal relationship.
 
Good Job Bob said:
My initial post was about how it is stupid and contrived for them to be motivated into action by the death of SHIELD agent they barely knew when their were plenty of others who died and also their's the whole threat of world destruction/enslavement..
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Barely knew argument doesn't hold for Stark. As far as Cap is concerned the only people he probably knew in the present are SHIELD agents/ liaisons and he was aware of how the person who died looked up to him.

Coulson asked Capt to sign a few of his trading cards? What a great relationship.
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there was a fucking point to this scene

Sure, and the death of Coulson motivating them is a mightily contrived and dumb plot device.
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We just disagree here. Coulson's death hit close to home and was what made them work together. The fact that Loki needed to be taken down wasn't an issue.
 
Good Job Bob said:
I seem to recall Stark being shocked at how informal Pepper was with Coulson, going on to say his first name is 'Agent' clearly implying they've never interacted outside of a formal relationship.
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And yet Tony was offering him to fly him out to Portland to see that cellist. That's a bit too nice for an informal relationship.
 
Good Job Bob said:
I seem to recall Stark being shocked at how informal Pepper was with Coulson, going on to say his first name is 'Agent' clearly implying they've never interacted outside of a formal relationship.
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We're going a bit too down the rabbit hole here for my tastes, but I'll bite;

He was more confused as to why Pepper (his girlfriend) was referring to Coulson in that way. Also, in what I'm sure is shocking news, Stark is a smartass.

The cellist thing kept coming up because Stark and Pepper were both talking to him about it as well. You usually don't talk about relationships with people you're doing business with, no?
 
Good Job Bob said:
Still LOL.

Black Widow said Loki had killed what, 80 people, in the last few days; that wasn't enough to get these "heroes" to band together and take some action? The death of some agent who knowingly put himself in harms way is what bands them together? "This is for Phil!", really? What about the tons of other innocent lives that perished as a result of your inability to behave like an adult? Fuck you, Iron Man.

EviLore said he felt embarrassed for the film using Coulson's death as a device to get them to assemble, I agree. It's offensively stupid; can't really blame Whedon for that one though because apparently Marvel Studios shoehorned that in? Just another example of them exerting too much control over a film and negatively effecting it.
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Well if Evilore said it...

I look at it like this. It wasn't really about Coulson's death but their failure as a team to prevent Coulson's death. Their in-fighting lead to distractions and a lack of focus which lead to his death so of course they're going to take it personally. That is something they could've prevented if they hadn't been fucking around.

In a sense, they were butt hurt about the whole thing. 80 people died but there wasn't much they could do to prevent that. It wasn't personal and it didn't happen a couple yards away from them.
 
Coulson represented all the people that needed the Avengers to work together. His death wasn't just about him.

He had no real means to, but he stood up for Thor anyways. He reminded the Avengers of what they needed to be.

Phil. =(
 
Good Job Bob said:
Still LOL.

Black Widow said Loki had killed what, 80 people, in the last few days; that wasn't enough to get these "heroes" to band together and take some action? The death of some agent who knowingly put himself in harms way is what bands them together? "This is for Phil!", really? What about the tons of other innocent lives that perished as a result of your inability to behave like an adult? Fuck you, Iron Man.

EviLore said he felt embarrassed for the film using Coulson's death as a device to get them to assemble, I agree. It's offensively stupid; can't really blame Whedon for that one though because apparently Marvel Studios shoehorned that in? Just another example of them exerting too much control over a film and negatively effecting it.
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How is 80 people different from people who die in wars they don't put themselves into everyday? We're talking about a threat to the entire planet and their head still wasn't in the game. They needed a personal push. They're not soldiers and they've been accustomed to serving themselves (well, Cap is more used to being listened to than being made fun of as of late). Plus it's something for the audience to latch on to as well, which is why it's effective. Tons of movies do this and they did it with out something like 3 films of build up to it too.
 
Coulson's death simply didn't work for me --- if you say it like this:

I look at it like this. It wasn't really about Coulson's death but their failure as a team to prevent Coulson's death. Their in-fighting lead to distractions and a lack of focus which lead to his death so of course they're going to take it personally. That is something they could've prevented if they hadn't been fucking around.
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..sure, it sounds good but it didn't come off as the tiniest bit emotionally moving to me in the film and that's coming from someone who genuinely thought Coulson was one of the enojyable pieces of the cold MCU cog machine.

No one gasped at my theater either.
 
Good Job Bob said:
Coulson's death simply didn't work for me --- if you say it like this:



..sure, it sounds good but it didn't come off as the tiniest bit emotionally moving to me in the film and that's coming from someone who genuinely thought Coulson was one of the enojyable pieces of the cold MCU cog machine.

No one gasped at my theater either.
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Who gasps at deaths in superhero movies? My theater fell silent is all. I wasn't all sad when he died personally but you're asking (I think) why that pushed them to stop the BS and finally get together, not why was it super sad.
 
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