Dating-Age |OT3| Positivity, Confidence, and Not Being a "Nice" Guy

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Dammit, the truth hurts. I figured cause she was working at those games is why she didn't want to go with me. But yeah, looking back I guess I was wrong.

Rule of Thumb is that if a girl is interested, then she WILL make time for you. Never doubt this.

Working full-time, going to college full-time, taking care of her parents/family/etc....none of it will be too time consuming for her if she likes you. She will make time for you.
 
I will do as you say and read the first post.

I will say that finding a woman has never been an 'ultimate goal' as you say - up until a couple of years ago I was enjoying my life, giving it occassional thought, but never making it a priority. Work friends (male - I have no friends that are women) even thought I was gay because I never even touched on the topic of women.

Now, however, it has completely taken over my thoughts, because I've realised something must be drastically wrong with me. It's fucking me up completely. People may call me a loser, or laugh at my situation. Society and the media enforce this popular opinion. Why should I feel like this when I am already unfortunate enough to end up this way? I feel doubly fucked over.

Those are my feelings, and cannot change them.

People say that these things come when you don't try, or when you are least expecting it, but that is the biggest load of bullshit ever. I've been doing that the majority of my life, with no hint of success.

I am getting older, and the clock is ticking. How can I possibly put this out of my mind now, as I have already sunk down far enough into this way of thinking? My experiences with women only compound the problem.

Again though, I shall look over the first post. Thanks.

I'm about to run out the door to class, but real quickly you are absolutely right about the bolded part. Things do not just fall into place. Some people have it come to them easier than others, but nobody gets to the top in any endeavor without a serious fucking work ethic.

I think where you're going wrong is not with recognizing this fact, but by being so pessimistic and dismissive of what it means. Yes, media and popular culture do emphasize some pretty unrealistic ideas of what makes someone a success, and a lot of people do buy into that bullshit, but you have to understand that most people are walking around with some kind of story, burden, experience, or general feeling of unease that makes them look outside of their lives for support or an escape.

Everyone is vulnerable in some way, and recognizing that is the first step to opening yourself up to a more fulfilling social experience with others. You can be someone who others turn to for that escape. If you make someone laugh when they're having a run of the mill day, you will stand out. If you make a small effort to be a little bit more fun to be around than the average person, even if you aren't feeling particularly great yourself, then you will be noticed. The healthy relationships with women are simply a byproduct of this attitude.

There is a lot of stupid bullshit out there, but if you think you're the first person to recognize that fact, then you are delusional. Believe it or not there are some really smart people out there who also see the world for what it is but don't wallow in self pity over it.
 
Hmmmmm, you do have a point. I might just be blunt and and do that, just to be 100% sure, who knows. Not sure if it's worth the effort at this point. Arrrrrgh! FUCKFUCKFUCK!!!

Not worth the effort? It takes two minutes.

If by 'not worth the effort' you really mean 'i'm too scared to make a move' then yeah.
 
Rule of Thumb is that if a girl is interested, then she WILL make time for you. Never doubt this.

Working full-time, going to college full-time, taking care of her parents/family/etc....none of it will be too time consuming for her if she likes you. She will make time for you.
"Interested girls act interested."

Always keep it simple fellas. :)
 
I will do as you say and read the first post.

I will say that finding a woman has never been an 'ultimate goal' as you say - up until a couple of years ago I was enjoying my life, giving it occassional thought, but never making it a priority. Work friends (male - I have no friends that are women) even thought I was gay because I never even touched on the topic of women.

Now, however, it has completely taken over my thoughts, because I've realised something must be drastically wrong with me. It's fucking me up completely. People may call me a loser, or laugh at my situation. Society and the media enforce this popular opinion. Why should I feel like this when I am already unfortunate enough to end up this way? I feel doubly fucked over.

Those are my feelings, and cannot change them.

People say that these things come when you don't try, or when you are least expecting it, but that is the biggest load of bullshit ever. I've been doing that the majority of my life, with no hint of success.

I am getting older, and the clock is ticking. How can I possibly put this out of my mind now, as I have already sunk down far enough into this way of thinking? My experiences with women only compound the problem.

Again though, I shall look over the first post. Thanks.

I think people say this because when a girl is giving off signals that she's interested, it's honestly pretty easy to move things forward with her (90% of the time, you still have to be the one to initiate, though). The thing is, you have to make yourself attractive first. A lot of things factor in to your overall attractiveness (god-given looks, clothes, body, confidence, humor, height, etc.). Some of these things you can't change (I'm relatively short, for example) so you just have to make up for this by working on the other things. Also, girls differ on what they find attractive so don't get too down on yourself if some girls don't pay attention to you
 
I think where you're going wrong is not with recognizing this fact, but by being so pessimistic and dismissive of what it means. Yes, media and popular culture do emphasize some pretty unrealistic ideas of what makes someone a success, and a lot of people do buy into that bullshit, but you have to understand that most people are walking around with some kind of story, burden, experience, or general feeling of unease that makes them look outside of their lives for support or an escape.

Everyone is vulnerable in some way, and recognizing that is the first step to opening yourself up to a more fulfilling social experience with others. You can be someone who others turn to for that escape. If you make someone laugh when they're having a run of the mill day, you will stand out. If you make a small effort to be a little bit more fun to be around than the average person, even if you aren't feeling particularly great yourself, then you will be noticed. The healthy relationships with women are simply a byproduct of this attitude.
I didn't see your post earlier, but you are right.

I may be touched in the head in my own ways, but the fact I can make people smile and genuinely feel good makes me feel fucking incredible. I can make people laugh, and I can make people feel loved--and the most crucial thing about all of it is that I do it without expecting anything in return, I just enjoy being a good person.

My friends say the fact I'm "sweet" (in girls' words) is what cripples me in dating... but I know what genuinely cripples me isn't that I'm a legitimate nice guy, rather it's because I'm not the best person physically I can be. Got a lot of weight loss to make myself more attractive. Which segues into...
I think people say this because when a girl is giving off signals that she's interested, it's honestly pretty easy to move things forward with her (90% of the time, you still have to be the one to initiate, though). The thing is, you have to make yourself attractive first. A lot of things factor in to your overall attractiveness (god-given looks, clothes, body, confidence, humor, height, etc.). Some of these things you can't change (I'm relatively short, for example) so you just have to make up for this by working on the other things. Also, girls differ on what they find attractive so don't get too down on yourself if some girls don't pay attention to you
...dating is marketing. It's really that simple. You're selling the product [you, the sexy man-beast] to the consumer [her, the succulent female].

Some people rely on deception or canned strategies to sell their otherwise lackluster product [acting like an asshole, using PUA, etc], and some are just so genuinely high-quality they can just give a spartan pitch and find a buyer [good guys]. But the common ground is that experience, practice, and advice (with a little natural talent) is central to becoming a good dater (and a good salesman).

...I apologize for the liberal bracket use and analogies, but my point remains. :p
 
I had the same feeling and she turned it around on me. I have a suspended license and I drove around last night and told her and she flipped out on me. I said it was a stupid risk and that I wouldn't do it again but I just needed to go somewhere.

Anyway, she said she wasn't mad at me (this was last night) but that she was going to bed. I didn't reply because I was at work so at 6AM I wrote "night babe, ttyl". Well she replied an hour later, back to bitching about what I did.

She said "good thing we're only seeing each other and not dating". I asked wtf that meant and she said "when you do things like that when dating it effects both people". So right away it's like she's just been waiting for a reason to hang a negative over my head to use as a breakup excuse.

So since we were headed down that road I asked things like, why aren't we dating anyway, we've been seeing each other a hell of a lot for two months to which she replied "i just need to be sure". I asked "sure of what" and then she turned it on me and said I was being too pushy and she couldn't handle it and that "you're perfect, but I just can't be with you".

She's 21, emotional mess and doesn't know wtf she wants. I was extremely stupid to put so much into it. She's the first woman I've been with for about a year or so (maybe two) and I think I wanted it too much. We clearly didn't want the same thing.

I'm still not feeling the pain yet, but I liked her a lot so I'm sure it's going to hit sooner or later. But i'm going to move on and continue to look because if anything this has made me realize I want to be with someone.

Always be casual and cool, let a girl steer how serious the relationship is. If she says "oh we were just seeing each other" well that's what was going on then, don't ask "What do you mean??". If it wasn't the answer you want to hear, you bail.

If you ever hear a girl say she's not sure of her emotions. BAIL

You are not her boyfriend, she does not love you, you are a rebound toy.
 
Pretty successful first year of college, girl wise. Last weekend of school I went out with this girl, 3 years older than me, and went back to her place, made out, and realized she was on her period. Not wanting to dive into the red sea, I eventually left. A few days later I text her and she never replies. I'll text her one more time tonight/tomorrow, and if I don't get another reply, I'm done. Shame, I thought we connected. Oh well, ya gotta move on.

With school over, summer work beginning, I'm afraid I won't have as many opportunities to snag girls, what with work and a summer class. So I joined OKCupid. I like it. I've already started messaging some girls in my area. But here is ONE RULE EVERYONE SHOULD FOLLOW:

Do not, I repeat, DO NOT, rely on sites such as PoF and OKCupid as your main source for potential dates. It should be a supplement to real world encounters. Relying too much for an online service will drastically degrade your real world persona, etc etc.
 
I agree that contract work would be really good for someone who's still unsure about their career ambitions and wants a more flexible work schedule. The downside is that it can be unpredictable, so if you want to work you may not get any (and vice versa). However, it's a good way to network and get experience (which would be invaluable when applying for more permanent positions).

Also, don't view a job as a trap. A bad job is just like a bad relationship: you can leave, and you can find something better. Don't stick it out and risk hurting yourself emotionally.

Anyway, it's great that you're so dedicated to accomplishing so much. Hope things work out for you.
Thanks for the advice dude! I've just gotta keep going for what I want to do in life, and ensure I do it.

I'm fed up of this fear I have, and it just gets me down knowing where things went wrong in the past.

You would be surprised how many girls are looking for something casual with no strings attached dude.

So many are occupied by their education, work, private life and friends that they're not directly looking for something serious.

Besides, in a world where sex has become so accessible, love has become much harder to find.
True.

I just can't visualize how to go about it in my current state, and out of college.

It almost seems like a thing that'll never happen, especially since I'm really struggling to break out of my shell.

I really wish I lived in a dorm during college, since it really would've helped build up my confidence and independence as a person.

*sigh* Just got to stay positive I guess.
 
Feeling pretty miserable at the moment.

I don't know how people even come to have sex or end up in relationships. Seriously.

Not having experienced these at 26 is driving me mad. I am SO frustrated.

I work in a retail environment, so I see couples together all day. I see attractive women too that aren't with a man.

Everytime I try to make eye contact, or smile, I get blank looks, or they'll look through/past me. Why are women so cold and indifferent towards me? Yet I can get a smile back from a little old lady.

Nobody flirts with me. No women interact with me in this way. Colleagues are the same.

I sit alone in the canteen.

I am so fucking tired of it. I am going to turn into a bitter, lonely man at this rate. People say being single is great, but most of these are people that have likely had plenty of fun already, and could enter into another relationship at the drop of a hat. The single life is absolutely not nice from where I am standing.

While I'm not much of a fan of Eastern philosophies, one thing I do like out of Lao Tzu for instance is the saying that the one that is most true to the Tao of Nature (path of nature or enlightenment) is the one that does not care.

Stop caring about your negative thoughts, what might have been or what is, and forget how people feel about you. Forget it now and forever.

Are relationships and dating tiring? It can be, but forget the emphasis and biological drive. Forget about the way society may be like today or the expectations you have to prove.

Since it's Spring/Summer, I recommend this: Get at least 2-3 hours of Sunlight a day, more positive people will need less. This means actually going out and doing something outdoors even if it's just biking or walking or whatever. You'll feel better and the world will feel more open. Negative thinking may lead to various forms of depression and sunlight will counteract that somewhat.

Then start to self-improve, but not because you want to be more attractive but because this is life and you'll have wasted it by being that nobody retail guy that does nothing that nobody else notices. Being someone requires effort else we are all just mindless drones in an uncaring machine.

Work out because it improves your life and try walking/jogging/running daily depending on your fitness level. Bring more organization into your life by dressing well, cleaning up, and keeping things tidy in your life. A messy habit brings a messy life. Ultimately, this is all to learn one thing. Discipline.

Look at all the times in your life where you're playing games, listening to music or otherwise killing time and letting your life pass by without notice. Decrease that. Yes, there's something to be said about having hobbies but since you only live once, make room for trying a variety of things and doing only the most enjoyable of those.

Start multi-tasking. One less game a year can translate into 4-5 significant works by the worlds greatest men from which you can learn from, and you can read these on the way to work, sitting on the can, eating dinner, etc. My favorite is The Meditations by Marcus Aurelius, I suggest reading that.

Once you have that discipline and self-worth down, your confidence will flow from it and that will help you through pretty much everything life can throw at you. You don't have to be a jerk or a player, but try to be virtuous and when I mean that I mean the Roman concept of virtue, from the root virs "of men".

Aspire to be great and proudly claim what you're good at. Treat all other people and things in life as equal to you or lesser but never greater. Never bow or scrape to anyone regardless of their position of power or threats and never sit in silence where you can speak your mind.

Once you are done growing up to being in active control of your own life, all the things you want in terms of sociability will be yours to take simply because everyone else will be too lazy to have done what you just did.

Assemble a circle of good friends or people you can talk to. This thread can be helpful to that but nothing beats one on one interaction, since we evolved for that.
 
Is there a chance that a girl has a change of heart over a period of a year? I know a girl who is doing some really weird things right now. Not sure if I'm willing to share specifics in this thread but I'm open to PMs for anyone willing to give advice.
 
Sideeffects of Cialis are sometimes a headache and stuffy nose, which go away in a couple of hours. That seems to be unless you have a heart-condition of some kind. I'd recommend it over Viagra or Levitra because they both need to be taken half an hour or so before the action, and last about 3-4 hours, while Cialis lasts for 36 hours (I've found that that's quite pessimistic; more like 48 at least) and so you can take it at the beginning of a weekend, say, rather than thinking 'I will have sex in half an hour, I need to take something!'

Psychologically, just knowing you've done it might be the biggest hurdle overcome. And once you've tried to and know it works, you might be relaxed enough with foreplay, knowing there's some nearby in case you need it, that it works fine without. That's just my opinion on the subject!

EDIT: have you had sex before, with your current girlfriend or with anyone else? or would this be your first time?

No, haven't had sex before. She would be my first time, but we haven't gotten that far because of the problems I was talking about.
 
I feel like navigating through OKCupid at this point is way easier if I just assume every girl in my area is fucking out of their mind unless they prove otherwise. Because the alternative is thinking that I'm going out of my mind.

Flakes.

So many flakes.
 
I feel like navigating through OKCupid at this point is way easier if I just assume every girl in my area is fucking out of their mind unless they prove otherwise. Because the alternative is thinking that I'm going out of my mind.

Flakes.

So many flakes.
I know that feel... sorry flaked out on the response. But 'tis true man.
 
One of the reasons I've never believed in these self help motivating speeches is because you listen to them and you get hyped up and confident feeling good. Then you actually step out into the real world and you still have to face reality. All the time I gotta deal with either rejection or the cold shoulder. My so called "friends" even though I wouldn't go that far joking about how girls don't want to be with me and so on. I don't let it get to me too much but it's still the reality of my situation.
 
Nah, feels good man.
Sorry man but you dun goofed. The best thing you could have done was to just leave her alone and act as if you don't care. She flirted with you but you don't know what her intentions are so why burn that bridge? Could have been a misunderstanding... Could have not. But calling her out makes you look bad and gives her power.
 
I've decided to lessen my courseload this summer and just explore myself more and try to add to or fine tune my repertoire of talents. Lately I've been getting myself back into writing and started a blog to facilitate that. I don't have much to write about, but online dating is definitely one topic I feel I always have something to say about.

I wrote this quick little piece on what I find really wrong with the entire idea of online dating and wonder if you guys feel this makes any sense.

http://www.timemuffin.com/post/23155309379/wheres-the-human

I know that feel... sorry flaked out on the response. But 'tis true man.
It's a baffling feel, and a frustrating one too, because you're left with no idea what happened and where or if you went wrong.
 
So I met this girl recently after walking her home (we live a block away from each other, as it turns out) following our professor's end-of-the-semester party. We smoked outside of her house for awhile, and eventually she let me in after which we talked until 5AM. We hung out again the next day for a similarly absurd amount of time (though we started earlier) and I haven't seen her since. This was Saturday.

Now, I've been "out of the game" for nearly a year now (bad breakup), so this whole thing has me extremely anxious. I like this girl a lot, and I almost wish I didn't. We've texted here and there since, but I have yet to ask her to hang out. Do I dare try asking her within the next few days, or should I let her make the move? Her family is in town for graduation at the moment so I won't necessarily have to worry about it yet . Part of me feels like its better to be assertive, but at the same time if I let her ask then I'll get a better sense if she's interested or not.

I loathe this process.
 
So I met this girl recently after walking her home (we live a block away from each other, as it turns out) following our professor's end-of-the-semester party. We smoked outside of her house for awhile, and eventually she let me in after which we talked until 5AM. We hung out again the next day for a similarly absurd amount of time (though we started earlier) and I haven't seen her since. This was Saturday.

Now, I've been "out of the game" for nearly a year now (bad breakup), so this whole thing has me extremely anxious. I like this girl a lot, and I almost wish I didn't. We've texted here and there since, but I have yet to ask her to hang out. Do I dare try asking her within the next few days, or should I let her make the move? Her family is in town for graduation at the moment so I won't necessarily have to worry about it yet . Part of me feels like its better to be assertive, but at the same time if I let her ask then I'll get a better sense if she's interested or not.

I loathe this process.

Just do it. Just think, for all you know she could be going through the same mindset, waiting for you to do something, so just do it.
 
@Jimmy Stav

Grab a beer or coffee, and see where it goes. Preferably beer though. Most truths come out better that way.

Hopefully youre only on the edge of the friendzone. Thats what it sounds like from your description. You ought to act fast before you just become another one of her guy friends.
 
So I met this girl recently after walking her home (we live a block away from each other, as it turns out) following our professor's end-of-the-semester party. We smoked outside of her house for awhile, and eventually she let me in after which we talked until 5AM. We hung out again the next day for a similarly absurd amount of time (though we started earlier) and I haven't seen her since. This was Saturday.

Now, I've been "out of the game" for nearly a year now (bad breakup), so this whole thing has me extremely anxious. I like this girl a lot, and I almost wish I didn't. We've texted here and there since, but I have yet to ask her to hang out. Do I dare try asking her within the next few days, or should I let her make the move? Her family is in town for graduation at the moment so I won't necessarily have to worry about it yet . Part of me feels like its better to be assertive, but at the same time if I let her ask then I'll get a better sense if she's interested or not.

I loathe this process.

It's scary, yeah, but just ask her. Make the leap. You'll be glad you did.
 
I recently met again a girl after something like 8 years. We spent almost one hour talking last time. She already was with a guy - and he wasn't her boyfriend. I recognized her, went to say "hi" and the conversation started and went so well that at a point the guy left for a while because we were both focused on each other.

We exchanged phone numbers, she called me and now I'm going to see her again this saturday evening for a drink together. I noticed last time many significant signals. For example, she was often touching my hand during conversation. We really had fun drinking and talking.

She is 27 years-old (like me), beautiful, tall (185 cm, about 6 feet, like me), fit - also btw with great boobs and ass. And she has a fantastic smile, smart and enjoy conversation.

Problem is that she has a boyfriend and he has the cancer right now. WTF. I went in the same shit when I was a kid and I know the hell he's now into. I know it very well unfortunately. So, for that reason I'm going to enjoy the night with her the best I can, but I have no intention to try anything with her. I would really feel like an asshole.

Am I crazy?
 
I've decided to lessen my courseload this summer and just explore myself more and try to add to or fine tune my repertoire of talents. Lately I've been getting myself back into writing and started a blog to facilitate that. I don't have much to write about, but online dating is definitely one topic I feel I always have something to say about.

I wrote this quick little piece on what I find really wrong with the entire idea of online dating and wonder if you guys feel this makes any sense.

http://www.timemuffin.com/post/23155309379/wheres-the-human

It's a baffling feel, and a frustrating one too, because you're left with no idea what happened and where or if you went wrong.

I think the lack of humanity is a symptom of society in general, not just dating. Everything is so compartmentalized these days people rarely see more than just a snippet of one's personality. Everyone starts turning into that classmate you only see in class or that coworker you only see at work. You see one persona, and you'll form an impression, and that impression won't likely change. It's too bad that we are more connected than ever, yet as people we're increasingly distant from each other. Maybe it's the lack of time or the plethora of easily accessible distractions.
 
It's been a few months since things broke off with my ex of 2 years, so I'm trying out the online scene for the first time.

I started messaging someone on POF last night. We're going through the "knowing a bit more about you" pleasantries, and she replies pretty soon after I send a message. The tone of the conversation is good, and I don't think she'd reply if she didn't want to, but she's hardly asking me any questions at all. Any ideas? It's not the end of the world - she's the first person I've spoken to, just wondering if I should keep replying or not... thanks!
 
@Jimmy Stav

Grab a beer or coffee, and see where it goes. Preferably beer though. Most truths come out better that way.

Hopefully youre only on the edge of the friendzone. Thats what it sounds like from your description. You ought to act fast before you just become another one of her guy friends.

One thing I forgot to mention in my last post is that she's decidedly sober (she had a problem in high school, I guess). This makes flirting, etc. very difficult; I generally only get anywhere with women after a few drinks, but this girl is sharp enough that I'd feel extremely self-conscious.

I will, at the behest of those who responded, "make a move" the next time we hang out--what do I have to lose?
 
One thing I forgot to mention in my last post is that she's decidedly sober (she had a problem in high school, I guess). This makes flirting, etc. very difficult; I generally only get anywhere with women after a few drinks, but this girl is sharp enough that I'd feel extremely self-conscious.

I will, at the behest of those who responded, "make a move" the next time we hang out--what do I have to lose?

Seems like you really like this one, so you DON'T want her to be drunk enough for you to score. You want to see how you guys interact normally. If it doesn't work out, then it doesn't. Onto the next.

People say that these things come when you don't try, or when you are least expecting it, but that is the biggest load of bullshit ever. I've been doing that the majority of my life, with no hint of success.
.

The point of that phrase is that the opposite will make you seem like a desperate creep that will fall for the first girl that gives attention. You don't want to give off that vibe. Speaking of vibe, would you post a pic of yourself? I only ask because you say that people seem to ignore you or not want anything to do with you. You must be saying something with the way you carry yourself.

If you don't want to post the pic for some advice, simply work on things like posture, take care of yourself better, smile and be friendly with others. Eye contact by itself can be creepy, so don't expect to magically have connections with others with this.
 
It's been a few months since things broke off with my ex of 2 years, so I'm trying out the online scene for the first time.

I started messaging someone on POF last night. We're going through the "knowing a bit more about you" pleasantries, and she replies pretty soon after I send a message. The tone of the conversation is good, and I don't think she'd reply if she didn't want to, but she's hardly asking me any questions at all. Any ideas? It's not the end of the world - she's the first person I've spoken to, just wondering if I should keep replying or not... thanks!

Escalate to an in-person meet-up. If she's interested she'll say yes, if not she'll stop responding.
 
I just read the OP about asking a chick out sooner rather than later; it feels like I'm sunk. I've been lurking in this thread for a while since I last posted (gave advice, rather than asked for advice). So let me get to the point: There's a a chick in my one of art classes who I didn't ask out before Spring Break despite her sending me signals of interest (which I was aware of but didn't act on it *face palm*).

So fast forward to yesterday, she popped her head into the critique room to say hi to me. I told her there was free food and to take. Any way, fast forward 25 minutes later, I'm back in the studio talking to her and stuff.

Now I'm kind of oblivious to when a woman is sending out signals of interest. For instance, she mirrored my body language when I examined my art work, laughed at my jokes, didn't get repulsed when I touched her (in the safe spots obviously), and asked me about myself after I asked her questions. I teased her and stuff.

Any way, I asked my friend if she's interested in me, he said yes and told me to go for her number next time I see her which will be either today (Thursday; it's 3:03AM) if she's in the studio or tomorrow (Friday) in the last class. What do you guys think?

For the most part guys, I've been talking to chicks in my classes just to talk to them without the intention of getting their numbers. It's mostly to practice my conversational skills and to get comfortable talking to women.
 
Any way, I asked my friend if she's interested in me, he said yes and told me to go for her number next time I see her which will be either today (Thursday; it's 3:03AM) if she's in the studio or tomorrow (Friday) in the last class. What do you guys think?

Why not? What have you got to lose? And think of what you could gain. Do it.
 
I just read the OP about asking a chick out sooner rather than later; it feels like I'm sunk. I've been lurking in this thread for a while since I last posted (gave advice, rather than asked for advice). So let me get to the point: There's a a chick in my one of art classes who I didn't ask out before Spring Break despite her sending me signals of interest (which I was aware of but didn't act on it *face palm*).

So fast forward to yesterday, she popped her head into the critique room to say hi to me. I told her there was free food and to take. Any way, fast forward 25 minutes later, I'm back in the studio talking to her and stuff.

Now I'm kind of oblivious to when a woman is sending out signals of interest. For instance, she mirrored my body language when I examined my art work, laughed at my jokes, didn't get repulsed when I touched her (in the safe spots obviously), and asked me about myself after I asked her questions. I teased her and stuff.

Any way, I asked my friend if she's interested in me, he said yes and told me to go for her number next time I see her which will be either today (Thursday; it's 3:03AM) if she's in the studio or tomorrow (Friday) in the last class. What do you guys think?

For the most part guys, I've been talking to chicks in my classes just to talk to them without the intention of getting their numbers. It's mostly to practice my conversational skills and to get comfortable talking to women.

Go for it.
 
So that girl I thought who flaked on me a couple of weeks ago? Apparently it turns out she might've been just legitimately really busy. She's been texting me on and off since then in scattered bursts, but we finally had a phone chat tonight that lasted 3 full hours. We're finally meeting up on Friday.

I don't want to have high hopes, and I kind of still don't, but at the same time, I can't help but feel a tiny bit of it.

Goddammit emotions. Shut the fuck up.
 
Oh man I know this feeling, I actually think I'm going insane. This is meant to be fun, but I can't help stressing about it all.
t210768_i-know-that-feel.png
 
I always feel like I've got a hold over my emotions but usually something comes and puts be back a few steps. i guess that's life!
 
SpectreFire: does she really have a reason for meeting up after talking to you for THREE hours on the phone? O_o Sounds like a nice date to me instead.
 
While I'm not much of a fan of Eastern philosophies, one thing I do like out of Lao Tzu for instance is the saying that the one that is most true to the Tao of Nature (path of nature or enlightenment) is the one that does not care.

Stop caring about your negative thoughts, what might have been or what is, and forget how people feel about you. Forget it now and forever.

Are relationships and dating tiring? It can be, but forget the emphasis and biological drive. Forget about the way society may be like today or the expectations you have to prove.

Since it's Spring/Summer, I recommend this: Get at least 2-3 hours of Sunlight a day, more positive people will need less. This means actually going out and doing something outdoors even if it's just biking or walking or whatever. You'll feel better and the world will feel more open. Negative thinking may lead to various forms of depression and sunlight will counteract that somewhat.

Then start to self-improve, but not because you want to be more attractive but because this is life and you'll have wasted it by being that nobody retail guy that does nothing that nobody else notices. Being someone requires effort else we are all just mindless drones in an uncaring machine.

Work out because it improves your life and try walking/jogging/running daily depending on your fitness level. Bring more organization into your life by dressing well, cleaning up, and keeping things tidy in your life. A messy habit brings a messy life. Ultimately, this is all to learn one thing. Discipline.

Look at all the times in your life where you're playing games, listening to music or otherwise killing time and letting your life pass by without notice. Decrease that. Yes, there's something to be said about having hobbies but since you only live once, make room for trying a variety of things and doing only the most enjoyable of those.

Start multi-tasking. One less game a year can translate into 4-5 significant works by the worlds greatest men from which you can learn from, and you can read these on the way to work, sitting on the can, eating dinner, etc. My favorite is The Meditations by Marcus Aurelius, I suggest reading that.

Once you have that discipline and self-worth down, your confidence will flow from it and that will help you through pretty much everything life can throw at you. You don't have to be a jerk or a player, but try to be virtuous and when I mean that I mean the Roman concept of virtue, from the root virs "of men".

Aspire to be great and proudly claim what you're good at. Treat all other people and things in life as equal to you or lesser but never greater. Never bow or scrape to anyone regardless of their position of power or threats and never sit in silence where you can speak your mind.

Once you are done growing up to being in active control of your own life, all the things you want in terms of sociability will be yours to take simply because everyone else will be too lazy to have done what you just did.

Assemble a circle of good friends or people you can talk to. This thread can be helpful to that but nothing beats one on one interaction, since we evolved for that.

Nice post!
 
The point of that phrase is that the opposite will make you seem like a desperate creep that will fall for the first girl that gives attention. You don't want to give off that vibe. Speaking of vibe, would you post a pic of yourself? I only ask because you say that people seem to ignore you or not want anything to do with you. You must be saying something with the way you carry yourself.

If you don't want to post the pic for some advice, simply work on things like posture, take care of yourself better, smile and be friendly with others. Eye contact by itself can be creepy, so don't expect to magically have connections with others with this.

I don't know if I'd post a picture, but I do know that I feel I look unnatural and 'stiff' in pictures that have been taken of me even when I am not posing or expecting a picture. I have a unibrow, too. Would that really stop people chatting to me, though?

One of the reasons I've never believed in these self help motivating speeches is because you listen to them and you get hyped up and confident feeling good. Then you actually step out into the real world and you still have to face reality. All the time I gotta deal with either rejection or the cold shoulder. My so called "friends" even though I wouldn't go that far joking about how girls don't want to be with me and so on. I don't let it get to me too much but it's still the reality of my situation.

You sound much like me. My reality is what I experience when I go out the front door. There's a reason I am a lonely man, or perhaps many reasons. I am who I am. Clearly people are not attracted to me, perhaps because of my looks and lack of social development. I don't know.

I even had a woman tell me to "Fucking move" simply because I passed by in front of her as she was leaving the store! A customer. That absolutely crushed my confidence, and I couldn't stop thinking about it all night. I didn't retaliate, but I watched on and saw her shaking her head as she continued out.

My work friend tells me that there's no women suited to me in my workplace, or even the area I live in! Then where are they?! In imaginary mythical land?

While I'm not much of a fan of Eastern philosophies, one thing I do like out of Lao Tzu for instance is the saying that the one that is most true to the Tao of Nature (path of nature or enlightenment) is the one that does not care.

Stop caring about your negative thoughts, what might have been or what is, and forget how people feel about you. Forget it now and forever.

Are relationships and dating tiring? It can be, but forget the emphasis and biological drive. Forget about the way society may be like today or the expectations you have to prove.

Since it's Spring/Summer, I recommend this: Get at least 2-3 hours of Sunlight a day, more positive people will need less. This means actually going out and doing something outdoors even if it's just biking or walking or whatever. You'll feel better and the world will feel more open. Negative thinking may lead to various forms of depression and sunlight will counteract that somewhat.

Then start to self-improve, but not because you want to be more attractive but because this is life and you'll have wasted it by being that nobody retail guy that does nothing that nobody else notices. Being someone requires effort else we are all just mindless drones in an uncaring machine.

Work out because it improves your life and try walking/jogging/running daily depending on your fitness level. Bring more organization into your life by dressing well, cleaning up, and keeping things tidy in your life. A messy habit brings a messy life. Ultimately, this is all to learn one thing. Discipline.

Look at all the times in your life where you're playing games, listening to music or otherwise killing time and letting your life pass by without notice. Decrease that. Yes, there's something to be said about having hobbies but since you only live once, make room for trying a variety of things and doing only the most enjoyable of those.

Start multi-tasking. One less game a year can translate into 4-5 significant works by the worlds greatest men from which you can learn from, and you can read these on the way to work, sitting on the can, eating dinner, etc. My favorite is The Meditations by Marcus Aurelius, I suggest reading that.

Once you have that discipline and self-worth down, your confidence will flow from it and that will help you through pretty much everything life can throw at you. You don't have to be a jerk or a player, but try to be virtuous and when I mean that I mean the Roman concept of virtue, from the root virs "of men".

Aspire to be great and proudly claim what you're good at. Treat all other people and things in life as equal to you or lesser but never greater. Never bow or scrape to anyone regardless of their position of power or threats and never sit in silence where you can speak your mind.

Once you are done growing up to being in active control of your own life, all the things you want in terms of sociability will be yours to take simply because everyone else will be too lazy to have done what you just did.

Assemble a circle of good friends or people you can talk to. This thread can be helpful to that but nothing beats one on one interaction, since we evolved for that.

I like the sound of this, but I'd have to adopt the mindset of "I am such a great person, I enjoy my own company, even though others don't enjoy my company." "That girl that just ignored me missed out on a great guy."

If I was a man that had had relationships, and had a woman/women express interest in me and enjoy being with me, I'd find that so much easier. I'd be able to refer to those experiences with women in my mind, and know that any woman that rejects me missed out on somebody that has showed other women a great time.

I can keep telling myself that I am a great guy, that they missed out. That I enjoy my own company all of the time, and that I am developing myself. But they really haven't missed out on anything. They meet a funny, smart guy that is relatively, or really good looking, and then they're happy. I am still that non-entity that they take no interest in because I walk funny, appear meek or timid, or am just plain ugly. Or all three.

They have not missed out on anything.

I feel that to develop myself in the manner you describe, I'd need to have or have had healthy relationships. I'd need to have those emotional connections.

I think people say this because when a girl is giving off signals that she's interested, it's honestly pretty easy to move things forward with her (90% of the time, you still have to be the one to initiate, though). The thing is, you have to make yourself attractive first. A lot of things factor in to your overall attractiveness (god-given looks, clothes, body, confidence, humor, height, etc.). Some of these things you can't change (I'm relatively short, for example) so you just have to make up for this by working on the other things. Also, girls differ on what they find attractive so don't get too down on yourself if some girls don't pay attention to you

I don't initiate conversation because women's behaviour around me is awkward or equivalent to holding a trash can lid up in front of her face with the words 'Don't talk to me' written on it.

I'm about to run out the door to class, but real quickly you are absolutely right about the bolded part. Things do not just fall into place. Some people have it come to them easier than others, but nobody gets to the top in any endeavor without a serious fucking work ethic.

I think where you're going wrong is not with recognizing this fact, but by being so pessimistic and dismissive of what it means. Yes, media and popular culture do emphasize some pretty unrealistic ideas of what makes someone a success, and a lot of people do buy into that bullshit, but you have to understand that most people are walking around with some kind of story, burden, experience, or general feeling of unease that makes them look outside of their lives for support or an escape.

Everyone is vulnerable in some way, and recognizing that is the first step to opening yourself up to a more fulfilling social experience with others. You can be someone who others turn to for that escape. If you make someone laugh when they're having a run of the mill day, you will stand out. If you make a small effort to be a little bit more fun to be around than the average person, even if you aren't feeling particularly great yourself, then you will be noticed. The healthy relationships with women are simply a byproduct of this attitude.

There is a lot of stupid bullshit out there, but if you think you're the first person to recognize that fact, then you are delusional. Believe it or not there are some really smart people out there who also see the world for what it is but don't wallow in self pity over it.

Again, great post. I will try to take what you say on board.

That's because you keep telling yourself it's bullshit. It's as easy as that. Like he said, it's all mind set. Like with so many others, it wouldn't do you any harm to see some new perspectives on this stuff.

Edit:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIX6V_Cpyq8
This was me almost a year ago, to the day. Your argument is invalid :)

I'd love a new perspective on this. Perhaps then I'd feel like I can get on with my life.

I could indulge entirely in other activities, I guess. Forget women, focus on enjoying myself doing my own thing. But to do that I'd have to be comfortable with the reality that I've always been a loner, and the thought of being alone forever, while I look on at the happy couples and attractive women around my place of work. I don't know if I can get over that barrier.
 
I've learned to kill my feelings.
Share how please.

I ended up removing and blocking the girl I was seeing. on FB. I just kept going on her page and it was like all that time we spent meant nothing to her (even though she also kind of said that). But literally since the day we called it quits she's added like 10 guys and has been posting all shit like she's not feeling a thing and hasn't messaged me or anything, which is fine. It just sucks that it's like I meant nothing to her and she's already moved on. Anyway I removed and blocked her on FB, which will prob help since I spend a lot of time on there. Some women can be cold as ice!
 
I ended up removing and blocking the girl I was seeing. on FB. I just kept going on her page and it was like all that time we spent meant nothing to her (even though she also kind of said that). But literally since the day we called it quits she's added like 10 guys and has been posting all shit like she's not feeling a thing and hasn't messaged me or anything, which is fine.

Is this the girl who had/has a ton of guy friends? The girl who was like 10yrs younger than you? Am I remembering this correctly?

If so, then her behavior is quite normal for a girl who has a ton of guy friends; They date 1 of these guys, flirt with the rest, and basically hop from guy/relationship to guy/relationship until their mid-to-late 20s when their biological clock starts to tick and they decide to settle down. They don't really mourn the end of any 1 relationship because they have plenty of Plan B guys who are more than willing to shower her with attention/gifts.

Like the saying goes: The best way to forget about an ex is to find another GF.
 
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