LOST |OT|

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Blader5489 said:
Off the top of my head, there is only one thing in the show that went completely unexplained, insofar as it was neither specifically answered or given context clues that the viewer can piece together themselves -- that one thing being the cabin. It's pretty clear that when the writers came up with that, they hadn't finalized how they were going to characterize Jacob.
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Yes, honestly the cabin is the only thing that nags me that I didn’t get enough information to make even an educated guess. Between the ambiguity of who was initially in the cabin (Man In Black seems like the most obvious answer), the ring of ash that was broken, it moving around, and getting burned down, etc., it seemed like they had an initial idea of what they were doing with it but quickly changed their minds, leading to confusion. Even people that I know have done their research with the show struggle to explain that piece.

But I’m totally in the camp of feeling like some things are better off left unanswered and up for debate. I think Across The Sea made that very clear that some answers, at least the ones they felt forced into answering, were not important to the overall story.
 
Solo said:
I still immensely enjoyed the overall series, but S5 and S6 are the reasons why I can't really picture myself ever doing a rewatch.
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Didn't you enjoy a lot of Season 6? I seem to remember you enjoying it as it was airing in Season 6 threads, or at least that it wasn't the clusterfuck you thought Season 5 was. Season 6 is a mixed season for me. There are quite a few very strong episodes, and a few weak ones. One or two very weak, but it was mixed up. I think it's easier to watch than Season 2 and the first half of Season 3 which just had stretches of very boring episodes.
 
Solo said:
I still immensely enjoyed the overall series, but S5 and S6 are the reasons why I can't really picture myself ever doing a rewatch.
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Same. Has to be the only instance for me where an entire series was ruined in retrospect because of the finale and this is why it fell flat for me. I could even do a BSG re-watch semi easily.

With a story like this, I should immediately want to do a re-watch so I can take note of all the bread crumbs they left throughout the story that would make the ending seem clever and intentional. But that doesn't happen in LOST. Instead of:

"AH-HA! So THAT'S why etc etc"

we get:

"Wait but what about…?"

The Adam and Eve mystery comes to mind. In the end, we learn that they were two people who were alive centuries ago yet earlier in the series Jack tells us the bodies were dead for about 30 years or so? Little inconsistencies like that irk the hell out of me. You can't wave a carrot in front of your audience for six years then cut the carrot from it's string, stomp on it and say "Forget the Carrot". It doesn't work that way. The fact that there are still so many apologists astounds me.
 
InaudibleWhispa said:
Didn't you enjoy a lot of Season 6? I seem to remember you enjoying it as it was airing in Season 6 threads, or at least that it wasn't the clusterfuck you thought Season 5 was. Season 6 is a mixed season for me. There are quite a few very strong episodes, and a few weak ones. One or two very weak, but it was mixed up. I think it's easier to watch than Season 2 and the first half of Season 3 which just had stretches of very boring episodes.
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I enjoyed it as it aired, yes. But after a few weeks (and then a few months and then a few years), I really soured on it.
 
Erigu said:
... Why would he do that? What's the point?
And why those 6 numbers? What was so special about that point when there were 6 candidates left that those numbers actually traveled back in time (to somehow fix DHARMA's Swan blunder, among other things)?
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He'd do it, because he can. He recognized that the light shone brighter in these candidates and used those numbers to influence them, perhaps specifically to draw Hurley's attention (it was always him).

Erigu said:
For one thing, the Others did a bit more than lying to the crash survivors, unfortunately for them.
Then, while they did lie indeed, I find it a bit hard to connect the dots between the fake beards and the survival of the island.
And as for that scene between Jack and Locke, it was about another lie altogether, one that was supposed to... achieve... something, I guess. I mean, what was it? Were they really afraid people would believe their crazy stories? Or was the lie just intended for Widmore, i.e. the guy who knows damn well where they've been anyway?
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The fake beards were just another layer of lies, to entirely hide the nature of the island. If they could convince these survivors that it was a "normal" desert island, which would more likely have desheveled inhabitants if any, then they would. And whilst Jack and Locke's scene was specifically referring to Widmore, it spelled out the importance of keeping the island secret, and illustrated the lengths those in the know have to go to in order to do so.

Erigu said:
I'm not sure what could be, then. Sounds like the writers got themselves a free pass.
Again, internal consistency, blah blah, just because it's fantasy / science fiction, blah blah...
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Blah blah all you like man, but isn't appreciating internal logic absolutely pivotal to enjoying anything? If you chose not appreciate the world in which Lost exists and instead choose to nitpick logic holes in a show that is submerged in science fiction fantasy, your loss. The cabin moves because only those who need to find it can find it. Same as the light. It makes enough sense, if only because it's tied to Jacob, who clearly has supernatural abilities.
 
I think the show is perfect as it lays. Never was there before or since such an ambitious show that was just as good as any high budget Hollywood summer action/comedy/suspense flick.

I love everything about the show, and feel fortunate that I was able to watch it all in one run instead of having to wait years between episodes and cliff hangers. It would have literally killed me, and I think it made me appreciate the "bad" episodes more than the slow and steady viewer. Even if there was a subpar episode, many episodes still raised and answered questions, and if one wasn't up to the LOST standard, the next would.

I am in the camp of die hard lost fans now, having watched the whole show through a little after it ended two years ago. I still rewatch episodes at random on Netflix, and eagerly await ABC's next move with the franchise. (I do like how elements of this show pop up in Flash Forward, Once Upon a Time, and some other upcoming show I saw a trailer for..but another full on Island Mystery Show in this universe would be great. Maybe there is ANOTHER mysterious island in a different setting with different conditions.)
 
Chopper said:
I don't think we ever saw Jacob anywhere near the hut. It was made clear in the last series that MiB had been using it. But yeah, the visualization when Locke and Ben first went there sure was ambiguous?
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You can a blink-and-you-miss-it flash of an old man (ghost?) in "The Man Behind the Curtain." There was a pretty clear implication from that episode that Jacob was some kind of spirit that Ben was keeping trapped in the cabin.

I know it has since been retconned that MIB was being kept in the cabin, but that doesn't make sense either, as he can't be trapped in there while simultaneously roaming the island as the smoke monster and people's dead relatives.
 
Blader5489 said:
You can a blink-and-you-miss-it flash of an old man (ghost?) in "The Man Behind the Curtain." There was a pretty clear implication from that episode that Jacob was some kind of spirit that Ben was keeping trapped in the cabin.
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But Ben later admits he was talking to an empty chair. It is where he was told Jacob resided, but had in fact never seen him. The flash of a man looks more like Christian Shepherd than anyone, which ties into the MiB having taken up residence.

Blader5489 said:
I know it has since been retconned that MIB was being kept in the cabin, but that doesn't make sense either, as he can't be trapped in there while simultaneously roaming the island as the smoke monster and people's dead relatives.
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He's not trapped. The ash has been broken.
 
I can honestly say I have no idea how I would rank the seasons

And two years? That means tomorrow marks the two-year anniversary of 24 ending :(

I'll be sure to finally watch "New Man in Charge" later today since I've never seen it yet >_>
 
Chopper said:
He'd do it, because he can.
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??
That's... not exactly a good reason.

He recognized that the light shone brighter in these candidates and used those numbers to influence them, perhaps specifically to draw Hurley's attention (it was always him).
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Well, all the collateral damage just got even more gratuitous, and the "giving the candidates the choice" dealio even sillier...

The fake beards were just another layer of lies, to entirely hide the nature of the island.
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Because otherwise...?

(and I'm not sure there's a fake beard large enough to mask all the weird stuff that keeps happening anyway on the supposedly totally-normal-island-seriously-guys, but oh well)

If they could convince these survivors that it was a "normal" desert island, which would more likely have desheveled inhabitants if any, then they would.
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In order to...?
I mean, what was the danger, there? Were they concerned those crash survivors would somehow find that magical light you can't reach unless the protector of the island guides you there? Or that Sayid would go from fixing a walkie-talkie to building another Swan station?

(also, "normal" deserted islands tend to not have inhabitants... but the Others were having too much fun messing with the survivors to go there, I guess)

And whilst Jack and Locke's scene was specifically referring to Widmore
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Kinda silly, right? The guy had already gone through the trouble of planting a fake 815 airliner (because of reasons) and sending a bunch of mercenaries and scientists, so that one lie couldn't help much at that point.

it spelled out the importance of keeping the island secret, and illustrated the lengths those in the know have to go to in order to do so.
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Once again, you're saying that as if that somehow explained the behavior of the Others on the island, when the situation is quite different... How were they "protecting the island" by harassing the survivors?

If you chose not appreciate the world in which Lost exists and instead choose to nitpick logic holes in a show that is submerged in science fiction fantasy
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I guess my "blah blah"s were too cryptic after all...
Right. One shouldn't mind inconsistencies in science fiction / fantasy. Because it's science fiction / fantasy. Okay.
Yeah, I don't think we'll reach an agreement, there. I'm not exactly surprised, but at this point, it seems pretty damn clear is all I'm saying...

The cabin moves because only those who need to find it can find it.
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Wasn't the Smoke Monster pulling the strings, at that point, though?
I mean, that's what was going on at that point, according to the later seasons (even if that also means the Smoke Monster somehow gave Locke that dream of Horace? ... okay?).

It makes enough sense, if only because it's tied to Jacob, who clearly has supernatural abilities.
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And they're so well-defined, too. Makes for great drama when you don't know what's possible and what isn't, and the rules keep changing without rhyme nor reason anyway.
 
Solo said:
I enjoyed it as it aired, yes. But after a few weeks (and then a few months and then a few years), I really soured on it.
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I soured on a lot of the Jacob/MIB stuff (and some stuff that happened in the temple), but there are a lot of great character moments and episodes that still stand out during a re-watch and are up there with many episodes from the other seasons. I think several episodes and moments might have tainted your overall view of the season. You're seeing it through shit tinted specs.
 
InaudibleWhispa said:
I soured on a lot of the Jacob/MIB stuff (and some stuff that happened in the temple), but there are a lot of great character moments and episodes that still stand out during a re-watch and are up there with many episodes from the other seasons. I think several episodes and moments might have tainted your overall view of the season. You're seeing it through shit tinted specs.
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S6 was good from a character perspective, but wretched from a plot perspective. The show had been a 50/50 balance for 6 seasons and then it decided at the very end to go 100/0, and that's where the hurt lies. Nice character moments at the expense of a completely unsatisfying story conclusion.
 
For me it's probably:
S4 (mostly because of The Constant)>S1>S3(had some weak eps but ended amazingly)>S2(I thought this season had a strong start but a weaker middle/end)>S5>S6
 
Erigu said:
I guess my "blah blah"s were too cryptic after all...
Right. One shouldn't mind inconsistencies in science fiction / fantasy. Because it's science fiction / fantasy. Okay.

And they're so well-defined, too. Makes for great drama when you don't know what's possible and what isn't, and the rules keep changing without rhyme nor reason anyway.
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There's "without rhyme nor reason", and there's "clearly acceptable within this fictional universe". I fall into the latter take on things because I don't need specific, scientific, black and white answers to everything, particularly when said universe uses magic light and "being special" as reasons for magical occurences. You either buy into it, or you don't.

The fact that you don't tells me that you should spend less time talking about it man. It's not like your relentlessly sour opinions will benefit us fans in any way. It's been two years since this show you hate finished. It's time to let go.

I appreciate this is a long thread, and Lost's history here on Gaf is a rich one. As a result, this post has probaly been made before. To those disheartened at having to read through another conflict with Erigu, I apologize.
 
InaudibleWhispa said:
I soured on a lot of the Jacob/MIB stuff (and some stuff that happened in the temple), but there are a lot of great character moments and episodes that still stand out during a re-watch and are up there with many episodes from the other seasons. I think several episodes and moments might have tainted your overall view of the season. You're seeing it through shit tinted specs.
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I've grown to like that stuff way more than S1's survivalist wank, which has made getting through Season 1 take me literally 2 years. I'm glad I came to the show about 2/3rds into the first season or I don't know how I would have survived.

Ha! Get it?
 
Chopper said:
There's "without rhyme nor reason", and there's "clearly acceptable within this fictional universe".
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When the show goes "I can't kill you because rules!", and then Ben shoots Widmore dead anyway, for example, it's inconsistent. Simple as that.

I fall into the latter take on things because I don't need specific, scientific, black and white answers to everything, particularly when said universe uses magic light and "being special" as reasons for magical occurences. You either buy into it, or you don't.
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More like you either care about the plot making some kind of sense or you don't...

The fact that you don't tells me that you should spend less time talking about it man.
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I... tend to notice these things while I'm watching. I'd say the above example is kinda hard to miss, for instance.
 
The show's been over for two years, and erigu's still at his pathetic anti-Lost crusade.

I wonder if he'll ever be able to let it go.
 
Chopper said:
There's "without rhyme nor reason", and there's "clearly acceptable within this fictional universe". I fall into the latter take on things because I don't need specific, scientific, black and white answers to everything, particularly when said universe uses magic light and "being special" as reasons for magical occurences. You either buy into it, or you don't.

The fact that you don't tells me that you should spend less time talking about it man. It's not like your relentlessly sour opinions will benefit us fans in any way. It's been two years since this show you hate finished. It's time to let go.

I appreciate this is a long thread, and Lost's history here on Gaf is a rich one. As a result, this post has probaly been made before. To those disheartened at having to read through another conflict with Erigu, I apologize.
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I always think that people who post things like this are big fat liars who should stop kidding themselves. When the show was on the air, there wasn't a single fucking person anywhere ever who touted the "All about the characters, bro. I don't want any answers." bullcrap. They only appeared after the show was done, which paints this entire thread into an example of the five stages of grief where Erigu has moved on to anger while everyone else is still at denial. The mystery of the island was the entire point of the show.

I'm anti "All about the characters" people about as much as Erigu is anti-Lost.
 
Ventilaator said:
an example of the five stages of grief where Erigu has moved on to anger while everyone else is still at denial.
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My anger would be directed at the showrunners because I'm not fond of charlatans. Not a matter of grief as far as I'm concerned, just one of principles.
(and I think some people genuinely don't care or notice the inconsistencies, readily accept whatever bullshit the writers throw at them, be it on the actual show or in interviews, and actually drink the "it was all about the characters!" kool-aid... in fact, if they couldn't keep track of what happened / was said on the show, it probably shouldn't be surprising that they'd kinda forget how they used to approach the show themselves!)
 
Erigu said:
Kinda sad how some people just don't get it, huh?
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Get what? That you think Lost is bad? Whoopdee fuckin' doo! There are a ton of shows that I think are bad. You know what I do? I don't watch them. I don't go into their threads and talk about how horrible they are and insult the people who enjoy it. I won't continue going out of my way to do those things for years after those shows are finished. If it comes up in conversation, yeah, sure, I'll feel free to let people know that I didn't like it so I don't watch it. But it's not something I will go out of my way to do.

You know why? Because I have better things to do with my life. Because a normal person doesn't subject himself to six seasons of a show he doesn't like for the sole purpose of being able to discuss how bad he thinks it is on an internet message board.

I could understand someone who at one point liked the show being as angry at it as you are. I could understand that person continuing to watch in the hope that it would turn around at some point, and then feeling betrayed by the ending. I could understand the frustration that something he enjoyed did not go in a direction that he appreciated. But you? You claim to have never liked the show. If you were anything approaching a normal, sane, reasonable human being, you would have stopped watching after a few episodes.

But you're not. You're creepily obsessed with your hatred of the show. You think you're accomplishing something by repeating the same points to the same people over and over again on an internet message board for years after the show has ended. And the saddest thing about it all? You don't even understand how pathetic it is.
 
Ventilaator said:
I always think that people who post things like this are big fat liars who should stop kidding themselves. When the show was on the air, there wasn't a single fucking person anywhere ever who touted the "All about the characters, bro. I don't want any answers." bullcrap. They only appeared after the show was done, which paints this entire thread into an example of the five stages of grief where Erigu has moved on to anger while everyone else is still at denial. The mystery of the island was the entire point of the show.

I'm anti "All about the characters" people about as much as Erigu is anti-Lost.
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Dude, I never said it was all about the characters. Of course, there's an element of truth to it, but it's not an excuse. I'm totally with you that the point of the show was the mystery of the island. Hence I embrace it rather than pick holes in it.

I don't much appreciate being called a liar though.
 
TrAcEr_x90 said:
Hate it or Love it, there just has not been a show to this caliber since....
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Fringe is the closest that resembles a similar style of sci-fi and mystery that has come close, but yes I agree that nothing has reached the same level. However, Breaking Bad (although this debuted while LOST was still on the air), has done an excellent job filling the hole that LOST left in me. Obviously not the same genre, but it has done an excellent job of making me wanting to pull my insides out when certain episodes end, or finales. If that show ends with an excellent season 5, I think overall it will go down as stronger show than LOST, many would argue it already has. So good.
 
KevinCow said:
Get what?
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That Lost had seriously shitty writing.

There are a ton of shows that I think are bad. You know what I do? I don't watch them.
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That's fascinating.
As for me, I watch and read bad stuff fairly often, mostly for laughs. Crazy, that.

I don't go into their threads and talk about how horrible they are and insult the people who enjoy it.
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Hey, I enjoyed it. I'm just saying it was horribly dumb. And explaining why.

I have better things to do with my life. Because a normal person doesn't subject himself to six seasons of a show he doesn't like for the sole purpose of being able to discuss how bad he thinks it is on an internet message board.
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Would that same normal person write all the stuff you just posted? Throw a butt-hurt fit over some internet guy's negative criticism of a TV show?
Hey, we're on NeoGAF: no need to pretend we're "normal people"!
 
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