Support NeoGAF

[NathanMcMahon]

They (the creators) don't really have to deal with anything. They are most likely blissfully unaware of the minor nitpicking from the rabid fans. It's interesting how there seems to be a level of snobbish disdain for the non-readers who apparently don't know what they are missing out on. Those non-readers don't care and will never know or care. The show they get to see is outstanding to them as the numbers prove. It is a huge success and therefore the show has succeeded. The majority of the viewers do not care about the books so the books really are not important for the majority when they analyze the show. Whether that is good or bad is obviously a worthwhile discussion with its varied opinions but really, this show was made for them and not the book fans.

 

[PantherLotus]

Maybe I'm being too forgiving.

Something none of you are acknowledging is how much time GRRM spent in each book reminding us of what happened in the previous book. The idea that 90%/50% made it each season is silly.

Even if you thought the "missing" 40% was really great (and it wasn't mostly background, world-building, and welcome-back-exposition), which parts have been left out that significantly change the point of the book?

Arya's changes are most significant, but I think we can all name three reasons off the top of our heads (hint: 1. children 2. on 3. television). Jon's changes are for the worse, but they're not completely indefensible.

 

[frequency]

I don't even mind "made up" stuff. I barely remember anything from the books anyway. I can't even tell you what's from the books and what's made up. It's been many many many years since I read the books.

But many story lines this season just... dragged.

The Arya/Tywin thing was fun at first but it really went on forever and didn't go anywhere. I didn't get a better sense of either Arya or Tywin as characters after the first scene or two.
The Dany stuff is dumb. All she does is yell and act "entitled" about everything. She's not very nice.
The Jon stuff also dragged and spent like two episodes barely going anywhere with it. All it managed to do was show me that Jon is apparently very dumb.
The Robb stuff is worse. He's supposed to have been fighting all season and moving towards King's Landing right? I don't get that sense at all. All he ever seems to do is sit around at camp and play at love with some random stranger.

We finally got some sense of progression last episode with Stannis actually on a boat and moving. And Tyrion actually trying to prepare defenses.

The season started sprinting out the gate. Lots of progress and lots of stuff happened. But in the middle, stuff stopped happening... The only progression was really from Theon. I don't think they handled the show very well when the best character this season is Theon.

Season 1 was all about rooting for the Starks for me. Even Tyrion. Season 2 is... um... I guess Tyrion? He doesn't have enough screen time though. I want to love Jon, but the way he is in the show is really... well... dumb.


It's still a good show, but I feel like there was soooooooo much time wasted on the most boring and pointless stuff.

Also, stop giving Dany screen time! I think she's the only character that has been on every episode this season. Or at least almost every episode. I hate her so much. Stop yelling about your stupid dragons and acting like you deserve to have everything given to you.
People said earlier in the thread she's like her brother. I agree. I don't get the sense that she's a good person or would make a good leader like Jorah says she would. I get the sense that she's the female version of her brother. An entitled and whiny jerk.

 

[JGS]

Also, stop giving Dany screen time! I think she's the only character that has been on every episode this season. Or at least almost every episode. I hate her so much. Stop yelling about your stupid dragons and acting like you deserve to have everything given to you.
People said earlier in the thread she's like her brother. I agree. I don't get the sense that she's a good person or would make a good leader like Jorah says she would. I get the sense that she's the female version of her brother. An entitled and whiny jerk.

I think she would be the best leader, but I'm also starting to think she may be a bit loco too.

I don't think she thinks things are given to her. She has without a doubt had a tough life and her kindness is what has made things tough for her and her people. From the beginning of the first season to now she has grown quite a bit but now she is stuck on one note - again a sign that she is obsessed/loony with the dragons or the writers are allowing her story to wade and play catch up after this season.

 

[Vyer]

All of the complaints are valid because there's countless new scenes which are weaker than the removed scenes we're bitching about. Given the choice between Arya scolding the gods for not saving Ned or a long boring exposition story on why Talisa decided to become a nurse, the answer is obvious. Or Arya asking Gendry to help her kill the guards vs Arya giving exposition on the history of Harranhal. What insane person would choose the latter?

You could just as easily pick the good Arya/Tywin, Tyrion/Varys or any other number of additions that have worked well. And pointing to something that works in the book doesn't automatically tell us anything about how it would work in the show. They aren't the same. Period. Your criticisms are focused primarily on the fact that the show isn't the book, which has never been and never will be logical.

 

[Kosmo]

Spoil it for me - how long is the timeline in the books. Am I actually going to ever see dragons flying and ripping shit up? A simple yes or no will do.

 

[Anton Sugar]

I don't even mind "made up" stuff. I barely remember anything from the books anyway. I can't even tell you what's from the books and what's made up. It's been many many many years since I read the books.

But many story lines this season just... dragged.

The Arya/Tywin thing was fun at first but it really went on forever and didn't go anywhere. I didn't get a better sense of either Arya or Tywin as characters after the first scene or two.
The Dany stuff is dumb. All she does is yell and act "entitled" about everything. She's not very nice.
The Jon stuff also dragged and spent like two episodes barely going anywhere with it. All it managed to do was show me that Jon is apparently very dumb.
The Robb stuff is worse. He's supposed to have been fighting all season and moving towards King's Landing right? I don't get that sense at all. All he ever seems to do is sit around at camp and play at love with some random stranger.

We finally got some sense of progression last episode with Stannis actually on a boat and moving. And Tyrion actually trying to prepare defenses.

The season started sprinting out the gate. Lots of progress and lots of stuff happened. But in the middle, stuff stopped happening... The only progression was really from Theon. I don't think they handled the show very well when the best character this season is Theon.

Season 1 was all about rooting for the Starks for me. Even Tyrion. Season 2 is... um... I guess Tyrion? He doesn't have enough screen time though. I want to love Jon, but the way he is in the show is really... well... dumb.


It's still a good show, but I feel like there was soooooooo much time wasted on the most boring and pointless stuff.

Also, stop giving Dany screen time! I think she's the only character that has been on every episode this season. Or at least almost every episode. I hate her so much. Stop yelling about your stupid dragons and acting like you deserve to have everything given to you.
People said earlier in the thread she's like her brother. I agree. I don't get the sense that she's a good person or would make a good leader like Jorah says she would. I get the sense that she's the female version of her brother. An entitled and whiny jerk.

I pretty much agree with this. I am not a big "the show is bad because it doesn't fall the book" guy, but there is SO MUCH good material in the book that is replaced or just not utilized at all.

Is Arya ever gonna be the cold-blooded badass that she is in the book? (CoK)

Spoiler

HOLY SHIT SHE JUST STRAIGHT SLIT THAT GUARD'S THROAT

 

[endre]

Spoil it for me - how long is the timeline in the books. Am I actually going to ever see dragons flying and ripping shit up? A simple yes or no will do.

Spoiler

Near the end of the last book there are some dragon burning shit up scenes. But in the way you think. For their use in battles we all have to wait.

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

I'm fine with inventing (good) storylines for the show. I'm not fine with putting multiple characters in a holding pattern and stalling things out - which is basically what has happened with Jon, Dany, Robb, and Arya to a lesser extent. Dany's dragons were stolen what, two episodes ago? Most of her khalasar was murdered, she knows who did it too. And yet she's casually walking around Qarth like nothing happened, and demanding Jorah...pull out a magic wand and return her dragons.

Jon walks around the wilderness with Ygritte for an episode and a half, and somehow Quorin cannot find him. despite being able to see wildlings miles away through a snow storm. Robb hangs around at camp talking with Talisa, and doesn't seem to be planning much of anything; he has yet to react to the Renly news, doesn't seem to know Stannis is about to attack King's Landing, doesn't seem to be planning much for the Lannisters, etc. Meanwhile Arya has been happily serving uncle Tywin for half the season; I like the scenes, but a lot of good stuff was cut to have a bunch of dialogue scenes between them that bleed together.

I don't want to be "That Book Guy" who complains about every little thing, I just ask: how many of these changes improve or exceed the storylines from the novel? Is Jon walking through the snow with Ygritte better television than him and Quorin hunting and being hunted by wildlings? Is Arya's summer internship with Tywin better television than her horrific Harenhel experience in the novel?

You hit the nail on the head.

Yeah, pretty much. Not a fan of what they've done with Jon/Qhorin.

Man, he's been so disappointing. The actor they got was great. Really don't understand what they're doing with that storyline.

 

[Fuzzy]

Also, stop giving Dany screen time! I think she's the only character that has been on every episode this season. Or at least almost every episode. I hate her so much.

Agreed. For someone who hasn't done anything all season there's no reason that she had to be in 7 of the 8 episodes so far.

 

[theignoramus]

the core of the source material is just so overwhelming they have time to put in memorable characters like Ros and have a scene with joffrey tormenting prostitutes.
yeah. the writers can include more of the (superior) source material, they choose not to. And im not just talking about budget inflating battle scenes.

 

[planar1280]

I never read the books apart from the first book comic after it aired but I still think Season 2 while very good is not even close to the tension, the quality of season 1. I am caring a lot less about the characters in S2 than S1. I don't have that 'Cant wait to see what happens next weekend' like I did in S1

 

[Fuzzy]

the core of the source material is just so overwhelming they can put in oh so memorable characters like Ros and have a scene with joffrey tormenting prostitutes

That scene was in there so they wouldn't have to have the Sansa beat-down scene be so graphic.

 

[Lothar]

You could just as easily pick the good Arya/Tywin, Tyrion/Varys or any other number of additions that have worked well.

Why would I pick a scene that worked well to suggest a scene that should have been replaced?

And pointing to something that works in the book doesn't automatically tell us anything about how it would work in the show. They aren't the same. Period. Your criticisms are focused primarily on the fact that the show isn't the book, which has never been and never will be logical.

Um no, they're focusing on that these missing scenes would be way better than what we got. If you disagree, feel free to say why but a vague response just saying I'm wrong and it's not like the book isn't adding anything to the thread.

 

[aceface]

They (the creators) don't really have to deal with anything. They are most likely blissfully unaware of the minor nitpicking from the rabid fans. It's interesting how there seems to be a level of snobbish disdain for the non-readers who apparently don't know what they are missing out on. Those non-readers don't care and will never know or care. The show they get to see is outstanding to them as the numbers prove. It is a huge success and therefore the show has succeeded. The majority of the viewers do not care about the books so the books really are not important for the majority when they analyze the show. Whether that is good or bad is obviously a worthwhile discussion with its varied opinions but really, this show was made for them and not the book fans.

Bryan Cogman, who is the story editor of the series, writes one episode a season, and is the main assistant to Benioff and Weiss just shut down his twitter account because he couldn't take all the nitpicking from book fans. So yes, they are aware.

 

[aceface]

That scene was in there so they wouldn't have to have the Sansa beat-down scene be so graphic.

Word, in the book she's half nude.

 

[theignoramus]

That scene was in there so they wouldn't have to have the Sansa beat-down scene be so graphic.

what? sorry, this is an itch I gotta scratch. by that time, it was already well established that Joffrey beat Sansa (or had his men do it for him) and that he was a psychotic little prick.
I mean, they showed her getting beat up at the end of the last season. then they showed Joff showing Sansa Ned's severed head. then they showed another scene of Sansa getting beat up. what purpose did that serve, when we already know he's the child from hell?

 

[Cornballer]

A couple very short items from this morning:

- WiC.net's compilation of Twitter commentary on the last episode
- WiC also notes that the S2 soundtrack release date has been moved:

Looks like the release of the season two soundtrack has been pushed back to June 19.

- E!Online with a quick comment from Eugene Simon (Lancel) re: next episode:

Spoiler

While most people are anxiously awaiting "Blackwater," one of the show's stars is looking forward to what comes after the battle. "I'm looking forward to his breakdown really," Eugene Simon tells us of Lancel, who will be fighting in the battle. Not giving too much away, viewers will be seeing a very different side of the Lannister after the episode. "It's a very beautiful change, even if it's not necessarily a healthy one," he teases.

 

[NathanMcMahon]

Bryan Cogman, who is the story editor of the series, writes one episode a season, and is the main assistant to Benioff and Weiss just shut down his twitter account because he couldn't take all the nitpicking from book fans. So yes, they are aware.

First he isn't their main assistant, Kat is, so you should get the info straight before you post it as fact. Second, that isn't Dan and Dave (who I said). He's a story editor. I guarantee that any discussion about what the diehard fans think is dismissed as mostly bullshit because they don't matter. You really missed the entire point of the post.

 

[Zeliard]

I'm still truly baffled as to why they invent stuff just for the show, when there is more than enough stuff from the book to include (better stuff). Why do more work for yourselves? Like I truly want to ask them this question so I can understand. I can't wrap my head around it. I'm not even whining or yelling at then, I am genuinely curious as to the reasoning for this. Do they think that perhaps they know better? As in they know what's better for a show.

Uh yeah, they do. Unlike some people, they understand that they're set with the difficult task of having to adapt a massive 1,000 page novel under the constraints of a television show, which is not only a very different medium, but forces them to have to make every decision work within a limited budget, a limited shooting schedule, and a total of 10 episodes. Not to mention having a large (expensive) cast and various shooting locations to work with.

GRRM, having been forced to work under similar types of (though far less severe) constraints in the past, knows the score.

 

[Jibbajabbawockky]

This has to happen as the mediums of film and television tell stories very, very differently to literature. They're not interchangeable without overhauling the way the story is told.

I think the most frustrating thing for book readers is how certain plots on the show (like Jon's) are just so much better dramatically and thematically in the book and it seemingly wouldn't need a bunch of huge big budget changes to make it work for TV. Its basically just people walking/running/being pursued in the snow, not much different than what you had with Jon and Ygritte in terms of filming. And yet instead of having Qhorin look like the total badass he is supposed to be and Jon seem like he's actually learning things, we have Qhorin and Jon looking like the biggest losers in Westeros.

I did like the last episode for the most part but they've done a few things so far that are just inexcusable.
-Watering down Arya's character.
-Not focusing more on the war on previous episodes. What sense does it make for Tyrion to only now start preparing when Stannis is two days away?
-Having the series be so slow and uneventful thus far. The House of Dying should have already happened. They've pushed it back to the finale. It's making her story incredibly dragged out. I think even non-book readers are annoyed at how long it's taking for things to happen. And they shouldn't be because the House of Dying should have already happened. Arya rescuing the prisoners was something that was eventful but was scrapped.

Yeah, Arya and Jon's storylines have suffered the most I think in the adaptation so far. Arya's mainly for her lack of real progression and her lack of agency in actually doing things on her own and not just having her magic friend do everything for her. Her time in Harrenhal should be when she starts taking matters into her own hands, literally, and we haven't really seen that yet. Which might make her later events more unbelievable, IMO.

And I'd also agree on timing and things being dragged out. Because it seems like they feel compelled to have Dany in every episode even though its only about once scene. And barely anything is happening. I'd much rather they just leave her out of a couple episodes and then give her a more meaningful episode where they can give her more than a single 60 second scene that seems to be there just to remind people she still exists. More often than not, those kinds of scenes just seem to make the episodes feel disjointed.

 

[Twilight Princess]

I was going to read the books, but then I heard after A storm of swords the series went to shit. I'm glad they aren't afraid to change things up, and hopefully the show won't become a borefest after season three.

 

[dave is ok]

what? sorry, this is an itch I gotta scratch. by that time, it was already well established that Joffrey beat Sansa (or had his men do it for him) and that he was a psychotic little prick.
I mean, they showed her getting beat up at the end of the last season. then they showed Joff showing Sansa Ned's severed head. then they showed another scene of Sansa getting beat up. what purpose did that serve, when we already know he's the child from hell?

What purpose does it serve to show Don Draper cheat on his wife more than once, I mean we already knew he did that.

 

[aceface]

First he isn't their main assistant, Kat is, so you should get the info straight before you post it as fact. Second, that isn't Dan and Dave (who I said). He's a story editor. I guarantee that any discussion about what the diehard fans think is dismissed as mostly bullshit because they don't matter. You really missed the entire point of the post.

Oh I'm sorry, I forgot how pedantic this thread was.

Cogman worked on the Game of Thrones pilot as a writing assistant and on the full series as a script-editor and writer. He has also written the fourth episode of the first season and the third episode of the second[1], as well as many of the 'history' special features on the Season 1 DVD/Blu-Ray set. He also serves as the unofficial 'keeper of the mythos' for the show. He also wrote the series bible outlining character and background information for other writers, actors and crew to consult.

http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/Bryan_Cogman

Ok, so he's not the "main assistant" my apologies there. He's just a writing assistant who wrote the series bible that actors and crew consult and the "keeper of the mythos" for the show. On show commentaries it sounded like Dave and Dan worked closely with him on story issues. I don't know if he particularly mentions every nitpick but he is someone highly involved in the show who yes, is aware of the fans issues.

 

[bengraven]

Spoil it for me - how long is the timeline in the books. Am I actually going to ever see dragons flying and ripping shit up? A simple yes or no will do.

Spoiler

It's about 2 or maybe three years?

But as for dragons, they grow fast: yes.

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

They (the creators) don't really have to deal with anything. They are most likely blissfully unaware of the minor nitpicking from the rabid fans. It's interesting how there seems to be a level of snobbish disdain for the non-readers who apparently don't know what they are missing out on. Those non-readers don't care and will never know or care. The show they get to see is outstanding to them as the numbers prove. It is a huge success and therefore the show has succeeded. The majority of the viewers do not care about the books so the books really are not important for the majority when they analyze the show. Whether that is good or bad is obviously a worthwhile discussion with its varied opinions but really, this show was made for them and not the book fans.

There's no "snobbish disdain". You come in the middle of a conversation about problems people are having about the show saying that you haven't read the books and think the show is great. I don't think many people here actively hate the show, but there are many valid complaints at the questionable decisions that the showrunners have made. And most of those problems you wouldn't see because you haven't read the books. You don't know where these characters are going. Of course they could change things so drastically where what they've done works fine. But I don't think so.

Obviously this is an adaptation. But there's a lot missing in the show that should have been there in some form (even if not identicle to the books). Changes are welcome, but the changes they've made don't do justice to the characters. We got week after week of Arya and Tywin in Harrenhal. The scenes were great, but ultimately they've lead to nothing. Arya has had a pretty leisurely stay at Harrenhal since Tywin arrived. We don't get her character progression at all in the TV series. It pretty much boils down to, oh shit, Uncle Tywin is leaving better get the fuck out of here.

There's valid criticisms that people who have read the books can see that others can not. And it's not criticisms on the level of "Why the fuck aren't Dany's eyes purple", "Why is Tywin not bald?".

Still a good show, but not what it could have been. Maybe next season they'll get they're act together.

 

[Lothar]

First he isn't their main assistant, Kat is, so you should get the info straight before you post it as fact. Second, that isn't Dan and Dave (who I said). He's a story editor. I guarantee that any discussion about what the diehard fans think is dismissed as mostly bullshit because they don't matter. You really missed the entire point of the post.

I would hope that they care about pleasing all fans. If they dismiss what any groups of fans think, that would be sad.

 

[The Elite]

I was going to read the books, but then I heard after A storm of swords the series went to shit. I'm glad they aren't afraid to change things up, and hopefully the show won't become a borefest after season three.

To shit?

Hardly.

A Feast for Crows slows down a bit after SOS but some good shit happens towards the end of that book that got me really excited. ADWD started off great but has slowed a bit in the middle. Still some good stuff. I hear the ending picks up again though.

Honestly, most of the books have their slow bits of world building or information you just don't care about but there hasn't been a bad book in the series.

The problem is, everything after SOS is getting weighed against SOS. The book I enjoyed the least might have been ACOK.

Agreed. For someone who hasn't done anything all season there's no reason that she had to be in 7 of the 8 episodes so far.

No different than the book. lol. She gets her fair share of chapters but nothing really comes of her story until the end.

 

[NathanMcMahon]

Oh I'm sorry, I forgot how pedantic this thread was.



http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/Bryan_Cogman

Ok, so he's not the "main assistant" my apologies there. He's just a writing assistant who wrote the series bible that actors and crew consult and the "keeper of the mythos" for the show. On show commentaries it sounded like Dave and Dan worked closely with him on story issues. I don't know if he particularly mentions every nitpick but he is someone highly involved in the show who yes, is aware of the fans issues.

You can dismiss your mistake as me being pedantic but you were wrong and it's good that you understand that. I'm proud of you for learning your place,

I would hope that they care about pleasing all fans. If they dismiss what any groups of fans think, that would be sad.

Once again, someone misses the point. They care about pleasing the most fans they can, the overly critical book fans are a minority and for the most part cannot be entirely appeased. The main fans of the show, are loving it as proved by the numbers, so it is an unmitigated success. I asked this question earlier but no one answered. Who is quitting the show because they no longer like it?

 

[theignoramus]

I'm holding off judgements about what they did with Arya until I see Valar Morghulis.

Spoiler

just the fact that that episode is named that tells me the showrunners feel Arya's penultimate moments of the season will be about more than an expensive special effects trick and a gold coin.

What purpose does it serve to show Don Draper cheat on his wife more than once, I mean we already knew he did that.

you'd have a point of the show was a character study about Joffrey Baratheon.

 

[Gregorn]

I was going to read the books, but then I heard after A storm of swords the series went to shit. I'm glad they aren't afraid to change things up, and hopefully the show won't become a borefest after season three.

You're going to skip 3 amazing books because the 4th and 5th aren't as good? That makes absolutely no sense.

Please read the books, they will make your life more enjoyable.

 

[aceface]

You can dismiss your mistake as me being pedantic but you were wrong and it's good that you understand that. I'm proud of you for learning your place,

And I'm proud of you for finally making me come to the realization that this thread is shit! I'm checking out.

 

[NathanMcMahon]

And I'm proud of you for finally making me come to the realization that this thread is shit! I'm checking out.

No problem, you will be missed... baby

 

[frequency]

I think she would be the best leader, but I'm also starting to think she may be a bit loco too.

I don't think she thinks things are given to her. She has without a doubt had a tough life and her kindness is what has made things tough for her and her people. From the beginning of the first season to now she has grown quite a bit but now she is stuck on one note - again a sign that she is obsessed/loony with the dragons or the writers are allowing her story to wade and play catch up after this season.

It's not just about being obsessed with dragons. She's just... not very nice.
She treats Jorah poorly, even though he does everything for her. She spent all season yelling at people about "taking back what is [hers]". She threatens people with death-by-dragon if they don't give her what she wants.

When I look at her, I don't think "what a kind-hearted woman - she would make a great leader!" I think the exact opposite.

She's both crazy and mean.

Maybe I'm forgetting something. What examples are there of her kindness? She is nicer to some of the people in her Khalasar, but that doesn't make her kind. Robert Baratheon was nice(-ish) to Ned and his. Stannis is nice to Davos. Renly was nice to Loras. I wouldn't call any of them kind.
If anything, the only kind person is Robb.

But I guess there aren't a whole lot of options right now. Stannis might be okay. He's hard, but I get the sense that he's fair. Although he did assassinate his own brother to take his forces...
Robb doesn't seem interested and doesn't really come off as a good leader to me (probably because they shoved him into some bad love story this season).

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

No problem, you will be missed... baby

Wow, awesome how this has devolved to childish namecalling.

 

[dave is ok]

You can dismiss your mistake as me being pedantic but you were wrong and it's good that you understand that. I'm proud of you for learning your place

Are you an actual human being?

 

[Fuzzy]

No different than the book. lol. She gets her fair share of chapters but nothing really comes of her story until the end.

She got 5 chapters in the book and they dragged out the first 3 over 8 episodes and that was with them almost completely ignoring her Red Waste journey. Her season could've been a lot better if where she is now happened in episode 5 or 6.

 

[Lothar]

No problem, you will be missed... baby

Can this kid get banned already? His only contribution to the thread is incredibly moronic posts saying that the show creators don't give a shit about the book fans. Now he's chasing actual good posters out.

 

[Cornballer]

I'm holding off judgements about what they did with Arya until I see Valar Morghulis.

Spoiler

just the fact that that episode is named that tells me the showrunners feel Arya's penultimate moments of the season will be about more than an expensive special effects trick and a gold coin.

[ACoK]

Spoiler

Agreed. I'm waiting on the end of the season to see where they're taking this. I wouldn't be surprised if they have her kill someone before she gets the coin at the end of the season.

You can dismiss your mistake as me being pedantic but you were wrong and it's good that you understand that. I'm proud of you for learning your place,

No problem, you will be missed... baby

You want to dial it down a notch? You're making some useful points, but it's getting lost in the vitriol.

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

[ACoK]

Spoiler

Agreed. I'm waiting on the end of the season to see where they're taking this. I wouldn't be surprised if they have her kill someone before she gets the coin at the end of the season.

I can live with this. I'm doubting it will happen, but hopefully they'll surprise me.

 

[Cornballer]

A few things off of WiC.net's tumblr:

- NPR: Peter Dinklage On 'Thrones,' And On His Own Terms (audio plus text interview)

Also, Roose Bolton is judging you:

 

[Anton Sugar]

LOL at anyone who thinks Jon, Dany, or Arya have had much character development this season. Their plotlines have had no pulse for the majority of the season. Arya/Tywin have some spectacular moments, but it doesn't really add up to anything.

EDIT: Roose Bolton's casting is perfect. Love the actor--I'm actually glad he's less "slimy" than he is in the book. (CoK)

Spoiler

maybe it's the lack of leeches.

 

[bengraven]

God damn this thread.

Going to say as a reader of the series (twice) that I love almost all of the changes and as a writer I can understand the necessity of adapting a thousand+ page book into a 10 episode series. They did the best they could, I'm sure they're learning from some of the negative feedback and since Storm has more going on they'll likely not change too much more.

Robb, Dany, Sansa didn't have much going on in this book: Robb was all in the background, Dany fucked around in ruins then just hung out in Qarth most of the book, and Sansa had more story than both. But Robb and Dany were popular characters (believe it or not, since the people who are fans of them don't usually populate a videogame forum) and Sansa, obviously, was not. So her story gets downplayed, Robb's story gets fleshed out, and Dany just gets a few facetime shots each episode asking where her dragons are or telling Jorah she doesn't want to go to the House of the Undying. Understandable. I like Robb's story, I like this Talisa better than quiet little Jeyne Westerling with her child-bearing hips. I wish we had more of Sansa's story - we've had bits of her, but I can understand her not being a popular character so they're sparse - I just hope it doesn't take away from her story going forward, which is going to get much more interesting. I dunno, maybe I'm secretly a little girl in the snow making castles.

So yeah, I can understand where people might be getting annoyed, but it's getting kind of ridiculous in here, so I think I'll calm down my viewing of this thread for a while. It's reminding me too much of the websites and forums created just to bitch about when GRRM is going to write the next book and despite having visited and enjoyed those sites because I was also angry, the negativity gets eye-rolling at times.

 

[LuchaShaq]

I think both Robb and Cat come off less of the idiots that they are in the book. I like the changes.

So far HBO Robb is much cooler character than HBO Jon Snow.

They have made a major changes to the Arya character however, I think by skipping the horrible things Arya had to do the book HBO has made Arya a much more conventional character than the one in the book. I think they need to find more screen time for Arya next season in order to justify the change they made to this character.

I don't mind either way. I think GRRM hadn't made up his mind about the Arya plot when he was writing book 3 and 4.

On Robb/Cat I can't disagree more.

At least in the books their actions are somewhat understandable because they were AFTER hearing about the deaths of Bran/Rickon.

In the show? They just seem like idiots/selfish fools no better than anyone.


Agree 100% on Srya though, I'm really annoyed at how much they toned down her story. Not sure why they are so hesitant to let her get her hands dirty.

 

[Jibbajabbawockky]

I was going to read the books, but then I heard after A storm of swords the series went to shit. I'm glad they aren't afraid to change things up, and hopefully the show won't become a borefest after season three.

???

I think a lot of the negativity toward A Feast for Crows comes from people that were waiting 5+ years for the book to come out, and it was a book that features a lot of world building and setup of plots, plus how its split character wise with A Dance with Dragons. People were expecting another action packed, event laden book like A Storm of Swords and they got a setup heavy half of a book, with the other half not coming out for another 5+ years when A Dance with Dragons came out last year.

The series certainly hasn't "gone to shit" after A Storm of Swords, the last two books are just sort of resetting the board after A Storm of Swords basically changed up so much of the status quo within the world. I'd say the chapters involving the North in A Dance with Dragons are some of the better material GRRM has written in A Song of Ice and Fire. Now, if The Winds of Winter doesn't start to have some payoff moments, then I'd be more skeptical of the series.

Never mind that for the show, they're splitting A Storm of Swords into 2 seasons, so 3 and 4 should be quite good.

 

[Vyer]

Why would I pick a scene that worked well to suggest a scene that should have been replaced?

Um no, they're focusing on that these missing scenes would be way better than what we got. If you disagree, feel free to say why but a vague response just saying I'm wrong and it's not like the book isn't adding anything to the thread.

Meaning that picking and choosing scenes to try and support the 'they should have used this scene from the book' is tenuous at best and illustrates exactly the sort of problem with not judging each medium on its own merit. You are framing the question as choosing a book event over a scene that doesn't work. We have no way of knowing if that was the case. What if Arya blaming the old gods was for sake of Tywin/Arya or any other number of scenes that have worked? Who knows.

In addition, to those very 'legitimate' complaints of acting, directing, budget, sets, etc. etc; would exist regardless. You are assuming that they would 'be way better' simply because you think it's a good scene in the book. That is something of a contradiction; those 'legitimate' problems generally don't go away because Arya is doing X instead of Y.

There are some very good criticisms in this thread, and some I don't agree with. But they primarily are judging the TV show itself. There's nothing even wrong with a comparison. But when we get to the point where we are accepting that everything would be 'way better' for no other reason than it was good in the other medium, that's where IMO the problems come up and *that* really adds nothing to the thread.

 

[theignoramus]

A few things off of WiC.net's tumblr:

- NPR: Peter Dinklage On 'Thrones,' And On His Own Terms (audio plus text interview)

Also, Roose Bolton is judging you:

book spoilers

Spoiler

the guy definitely looks like hes up for inflicting some pain and torture on a man.those eyes look merciless.

 

[The Lamonster]

Hey guys, make more predictions about the next couple episodes plz. I love it

 

[Cornballer]

Hey guys, make more predictions about the next couple episodes plz. I love it

I predict you'll realize you meant this for the other thread, and then when you repost it over there I'll chastise you for it and post the spoiler rules again.

 

[bengraven]

A thread about Ice and Fire that's derailing to the negative isn't complete until someone brings up Feast for Crows.

George's Law states that "as discussion grows longer, a comparison to Feast for Crows will inevitably happen".