I mean without parries, Chun would be unstoppable against those characters.
Remy would jump up the tiers hardcore, though, so there would be a plus.
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Fighting Games Weekly | May 21-27
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I mean without parries, Chun would be unstoppable against those characters.
Remy would jump up the tiers hardcore, though, so there would be a plus.
SolarPowered
Member
I wish we could get another Street Fighter with parries. I'd buy that game in a heartbeat even if it looks like ass.
RockTurtle
Member
Being a Q player, you don't know the love and appreciation i have for parries. I don't have wakeup punishers like dragon punches or the short, all my attacks save for jabs come out as slow as molasses, all my combos are situational.
If i get stuck in the corner without a meter full, i can literally get stuck with no way to retaliate against a ken/dudley/chun li. seriously. ALL of their simple attacks will cancel anything and everything i can throw out.
BUT GODDAMN DO I LOVE THIS GAME AND THAT CHARACTER>
EDIT:
Hey guys i was thinking. Neogaf has a decent sized FGC that loves 3rd strike, but i'm sure many of us find it hard to get a good room without a steady flow of friends and a timezone agreement. There is always someone online in ranked, but sometimes the quality of players/connections can be a daunting experience. And for sure, i learned in sf2 on xbox live that sometimes practicing against a consistent player will def help iron out your skills, specially if you fight someone decent. you learn more trying to apply new moves on the same person, than praying it works and not seeing the fruits of your labor on a random aspect like ranked match.
Would some of you guys be open to a once a week thing where we meet on xbox live/PSN and make rooms to practice with fellow gaffers?
I WOULD CALL IT "3rd STRIKE THURSDAYS": Every Thursday at 7pm EST/6PM Central/4 PM PST! any ideas?
If i get stuck in the corner without a meter full, i can literally get stuck with no way to retaliate against a ken/dudley/chun li. seriously. ALL of their simple attacks will cancel anything and everything i can throw out.
BUT GODDAMN DO I LOVE THIS GAME AND THAT CHARACTER>
EDIT:
Hey guys i was thinking. Neogaf has a decent sized FGC that loves 3rd strike, but i'm sure many of us find it hard to get a good room without a steady flow of friends and a timezone agreement. There is always someone online in ranked, but sometimes the quality of players/connections can be a daunting experience. And for sure, i learned in sf2 on xbox live that sometimes practicing against a consistent player will def help iron out your skills, specially if you fight someone decent. you learn more trying to apply new moves on the same person, than praying it works and not seeing the fruits of your labor on a random aspect like ranked match.
Would some of you guys be open to a once a week thing where we meet on xbox live/PSN and make rooms to practice with fellow gaffers?
I WOULD CALL IT "3rd STRIKE THURSDAYS": Every Thursday at 7pm EST/6PM Central/4 PM PST! any ideas?
Rice-Eater
Member
Hmm, what if Capcom doesn't ban any characters? Will we see people tier whore and use Gill in 3S and Akuma in HDR? Oh that would be so lovely. Come on Capcom, do it.
not really. I guess when he was talking to Fubarduck he hinted he was suppose to be on the podcast with Aris and Magus but he was busy at the time.
Tizoc
Member
Ooooh yeah you're right, my bad for not understanding ^_^;;;
...Hmm aren't parries the subject of debate among FGers? There are those who are for it and those who are against it.
I would say in an FG where things are balanced, a Parry system is not needed. ...but that's a theory for another day @_@
Karsticles
Member
Some people tend not to like that fireballs are less useful in parry systems, but I don't think anyone outright hates them. People do hate 3S for other reasons, though.
scytheavatar
Member
Haven't you read the long ass article Viscant wrote about how parries killed the positional aspects of SF2 and dumbed down 3S tremendously? Agree with him or not it's pretty undeniable that parries caused 3S to play nothing like any other fighting game, and for that reason it's unlikely they will ever make a return.
Rice-Eater
Member
I thought the parry system was the greatest thing in the world when I first saw the Daigo parry video. It makes for some really exciting matches, especially when used in to make comebacks. But when I started playing SF4 seriously and learned how to appreciate every facet of the game like zoning and anti-air, I started disliking the idea of parries in a SF game. I think the parry system would still be good for a fighting game, I just don't want it in another SF game. Imagine playing Dhalsim in SF4 with the SF3 parry system. He'd have a losing match up against everybody in the game because everybody could get in on him lol.
TheThunder
Member
Parries are my favorite mechanic in any street fighter game ever.
Nothing like landing a lucky parry then somehow confirming into a combo off of it. Makes you walk around feeling like a badass japanese 3rd Strike god.
Tizoc
Member
So what a fighting game being vastly different from other fighting games isn't a good thing?
There's some standard all FGs must bide to or some such?
I'm not trying to be rude or offensive here BTW, apologies if my questions insinuate such; I just think that each fighting game needs to be it's...well it's 'own' style that is for the most part unique, for lack of a better word on my part, if possible than other games.
Oh and here's YOU taking out a Yun-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=JZk_PrCsxqg#t=1215s
EDIT: Oh wait here's Part 2 lol ^_^;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15IqgY3OWes&feature=plcp
scytheavatar
Member
That's my point, SF3 is unique and no other SF game will play like it, just like how a SF5 is not going to play like SF4 and probably wouldn't have ultras and focus attacks back. SF3 is defined by parries, and parries really is an all or nothing mechanics. Either you make it powerful and force everyone to use it or you make it too difficult to pull off till it becomes gimmicky. With Capcom under pressure to make their fighting games more accessible and not have a huge barrier like parries preventing people from enjoying their games it becomes unlikely they will put parries back.
While it's true that parries in SF3 made projectiles much less useful zoning tools than they had been before, I have no problem with the mechanic, itself. Not only does it lend itself to some amazing counter-combos and setups, but it ensures that there's always that chance for a comeback no matter how dire the situation is. Daigo's comeback on Justin at Evo 2k4 was just one of many examples of this that we've seen in high-level play.
Parries are comeback mechanics that require actual skill, as opposed to Ultras in the SF4 series.
Despite my love for parrying, I think that the focus system was a fair replacement in SF4. It's a more forgiving risk-reward proposition for baiting an attack and then countering, and all of the multi-hit and/or armor-breaking moves that every character has make focus attacks less infallible than parries ever were.
Since projectiles and zoning are tenants of the Street Fighter 2 series (and now SF4), I don't expect parries to ever return to the SF series. That being said, I welcome them in other fighting games. I always liked the Deflect button in the Last Blade games as well.
Parries are comeback mechanics that require actual skill, as opposed to Ultras in the SF4 series.
Despite my love for parrying, I think that the focus system was a fair replacement in SF4. It's a more forgiving risk-reward proposition for baiting an attack and then countering, and all of the multi-hit and/or armor-breaking moves that every character has make focus attacks less infallible than parries ever were.
Since projectiles and zoning are tenants of the Street Fighter 2 series (and now SF4), I don't expect parries to ever return to the SF series. That being said, I welcome them in other fighting games. I always liked the Deflect button in the Last Blade games as well.
Stabby McSter
Member
sup guys, I've been sick
this whole week. What'd I miss? D:
and playing Diablo III
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
Parry is the worst comeback mechanic to grace a Capcom fighter.
Oh come on, now. X-factor? Ultras?
Parry is easily worse.
The only game that did the mechanic correctly is Battle Fantasia (I don't think you could parry projectiles in that, and parries had a whiff animation)
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
X-factor is pretty dumb, but I don't think it renders entire character archetypes irrelevant at high-level play.
I have to ask, what makes parry a comeback mechanic? Comeback mechanics usually become available and become more powerful in a match after certain criteria are met. In 3rd Strike each player has parry whether they're at 100% or 1%.
Seraphinianus
Banned
awesome, my new gaming rig will probably arrive on Saturday, right in the middle of UFGT.
Episode 3 of Tekken Busters is up on Youtube:
http://www.avoidingthepuddle.com/news/2012/5/24/tekken-busters-s1-episode-3.html
http://www.avoidingthepuddle.com/news/2012/5/24/tekken-busters-s1-episode-3.html
Streaming rig IMO.
Seraphinianus
Banned
i'm scheduled to play right around the time it would arrive.
I don't really care about missing MVC3 or AE, have not practiced at all.
it's mystery game I don't wanna miss.
As a fellow SFxT fan, I somewhat agree. One of the things that keeps me from loving UMvC3 is one of the worst system mechanics ever
and it isn't x-factor.
Someone should make a fighting game design discussion thread.
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
Its only purpose is to turn the agressor's momentum around on him. It's even more of a strictly comeback mechanic than something like X-factor, because the latter can be used to put a match away early just as much as it can be used to make a comeback. It takes what would have been a disadvantageous situation in any other fighter (via corner traps, fireball traps, anti-air positioning, etc.) and gives you an out that can be used at any time, in any position, for no meter or resource management.
Ultradavid mentioned once that his absolute least favorite situation in any fighting game is when his opponent in SF3 is waking up from a knockdown and has very little life remaining because it just leads to guess-and-win results.
Seraphinianus
Banned
is this an announcement of an announcement or some shit?
spit it out!
also, no need for a separate thread. the only people who can come close to having a rational discussion about that are regulars in this thread. If you open it up to general gaf, it'll get derailed by "I hate the FGC" complainers and people who think Killer Instinct was a good game and needs to be ported to Kinect and that there's nothing wrong with making fighters more casual...and if not all that, then smash bros fans. /jaded
Karsticles
Member
What I mean is that people might not like parries as they were in 3S, but I don't think anyone is against the general concept of a parry. For example, BlazBlue uses a parry system that is well-liked AFAIK.
If you're thinking TACs, I agree with you.
FG discussion thread= more bans then a console war thread.
Everyone has different ideas and none of them are compatible, and we're all fanatics about it.
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
To me a comeback mechanic lets you "comeback." While x-factor can end a round faster, parry can make someone get a perfect by guessing right. To me parry is like super meter, it can be used for comebacks, but isn't a comeback mechanic in and of itself.
Someone read my mind.
I don't remember a parry system in Blazblue (admittedly I didn't play the game for very long). I mean, it has IB I guess, but... are you sure you aren't talking about Guilty Gear?
Melty Blood has a parry system as well. Sometimes I agree that projectile characters would be better off without it, but pressure is so strong in that game that you basically need it. It also has a whiff animation and gets counter hit, so...
I'm not a SFxT fan.
But the hate it gets relative to MvC3 is absolutely ridiculous.
Either SFxT gets hated on too much or MvC3 doesn't get hated on enough.
Seraphinianus
Banned
yeah, me getting Team Aerial'd = I mash directions time and hope I counter. Honestly have not paid enough attention to the mechanic to make any call on it though.
I like parries. I just think the window in 3S was just a bit too wide for them. Shorten it by one frame, and you have real reads, not just anticipation.
Also there's so much going against SFxT at this point that it being shunned is no surprise to me. The time to be shocked about it is over.
Also there's so much going against SFxT at this point that it being shunned is no surprise to me. The time to be shocked about it is over.
Seraphinianus
Banned
MVC3 gets plenty of hate. it also just happens to get the most viewers, which offsets the hate. I believe MVC2 got the same kind of pass.
If I'm honest with myself, I'm nowhere near qualified to call any of these games amazing or broken. if it's super obviously broken, like SF:The Movie, then I can make a good call. If it's too complex (or just has too many variables like MVC's million characters and team balance dynamics) for me to spend enough time to learn in and out, then I just don't know and follow my heart with what's fun to play. I've hardly won a match at locals, but I will play UMVC3 all night and be as happy as 10 year old me discovering SF2.
A lot of SFxTK's hate isn't game-related.
That said- MVC3 is a perfectly fine kusoge fighter, SFxTK can't even accomplish that.
FindMyFarms
Member
I think most people are ok with parries, just not 3S parries. Relative to other game, 3s parries are way too good. No whiff animation, you can get them passively (i.e. not have deliberate attempt to parry something and still get it due to random down/forward inputs) and you can get monster damage off them. Compared to Soul Calibur, where if you want to parry something it has to be planned very precisely, because if it's not there, you just whiff the parry then got launched, then have to eat mix up. Lack of a whiff animation and the damage you can get off them are the biggest problems.
I think one is a decent competitive game but is boring and the other is a poor competitive game, but it's fun to watch.
While I think SFxT gets too much hate for the wrong reasons (the game is as boring to watch as AE2012 for me), plenty of MvC2 players either dislike or hate MvC3. As Seraph said, theres just more people who watch it then hate it which is not the case with SFxT.
RockTurtle
Member
How about if Parries took off meter?
also, i think some people are ignoring to state the fact parries are not safe. sure there is no whiff animation, but you are pressing forward and bypassing your ability to block an attack. you are exposing yourself to damage hoping to bypass regular damage, potential chip damage or a combo setup.
the difference in Soul Calibur's parry system is that SC has a more punishable window if it fails.
also, i think some people are ignoring to state the fact parries are not safe. sure there is no whiff animation, but you are pressing forward and bypassing your ability to block an attack. you are exposing yourself to damage hoping to bypass regular damage, potential chip damage or a combo setup.
the difference in Soul Calibur's parry system is that SC has a more punishable window if it fails.
biosnake20
Member
Parries suck because they severely limit play styles, almost negate use for projectiles, and can be used to make things like jumping in more safe. There's a reason why a lot of people say 3S doesn't even feel like an SF game.
I think TACs can be easily balanced by just making an actual consequence to attempting to use it.
I think TACs can be easily balanced by just making an actual consequence to attempting to use it.
You are talking about Guard Impacts, right? SC5 also has the Just Guard system, which I've heard some people compare to red parries in 3rd strike.
Because Dudley, Makoto, Yun, Yang, Ken, Ryu and Chun-li are such similar play styles right? There are so many engines that certain characters can't work in anyway, so what gives if 3S nullifies certain playstyles?
And EX projectiles are great moves in Third Strike. So is Akuma's air fireball, Urien's fireballs. Urien's upward projectile in particular is a great anti-air because it exposes late parry attempts.
Jumping in more safe? It's actually a two way guessing game. Will he empty jump and go low, thus exposing my high parry? Maybe he's waiting to parry my anti-air? Or will he attack anyway?
So, have you actually played the game?