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[OnPoint]

SSG's event this weekend showed that Delver is just as strong as ever, with the top six players rocking U/W Delver builds. Seventh was a U/B Zombie build, while eighth was a R/B Zombie build.

It depresses me to see such lack of variety at the top of the pack. I mean, there always should be a 'best deck' in a format, but this is getting to be a bit ridiculous. This proves to me, at least, that Snapcaster was a mistake (though WotC doesn't seem to think so) and so was Delver without a doubt.

- Here's the decklists and placement chart

 

[f0rk]

SSG's event this weekend showed that Delver is just as strong as ever, with the top six players rocking U/W Delver builds. Seventh was a U/B Zombie build, while eighth was a R/B Zombie build.

It depresses me to see such lack of variety at the top of the pack. I mean, there always should be a 'best deck' in a format, but this is getting to be a bit ridiculous. This proves to me, at least, that Snapcaster was a mistake (though WotC doesn't seem to think so) and so was Delver without a doubt.

- Here's the decklists and placement chart

It should be noted that there was a block GP on the same weekend that had more of the top players, and the week before in the Standard GP while there were 4 Delver lists they were all completely different.

Snapcaster and Delver are powerful cards but they haven't broken the format.

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

It should be noted that there was a block GP on the same weekend that had more of the top players, and the week before in the Standard GP while there were 4 Delver lists they were all completely different.

Snapcaster and Delver are powerful cards but they haven't broken the format.

They're really not different though. They're all the same restoration delver decks, the only difference is like max of 3 cards which is whether they want gut shots, dismember, etc. It seems like every time lately U/W control wins and it's just boring as shit to have to play that or lose it seems. There's not other decks even cracking the top 8, only reason zombies are there is because cage and stuff hurts them too much otherwise they would be gone.

 

[f0rk]

They're really not different though. They're all the same restoration delver decks, the only difference is like max of 3 cards which is whether they want gut shots, dismember, etc. It seems like every time lately U/W control wins and it's just boring as shit to have to play that or lose it seems. There's not other decks even cracking the top 8, only reason zombies are there is because cage and stuff hurts them too much otherwise they would be gone.

No, at the GP the weekend before the 4 Delver decks were all different. And GP's are significantly more competitive, as an example the guy that won with a U/R Delver brew went to a Block GP that he didn't really test of playing Standard at the SCG Open.
There always has to be best decks and powerful cards, it's the nature of every competitive game. The format is far from degenerate, there is plenty of choice in solid decks to play and tweak.
And Delver isn't U/W control.

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

Why was the first place deck running feast and famine instead of war and peace?

No, at the GP the weekend before the 4 Delver decks were all different. And GP's are significantly more competitive, as an example the guy that won with a U/R Delver brew went to a Block GP that he didn't really test of playing Standard at the SCG Open.
There always has to be best decks and powerful cards, it's the nature of every competitive game. The format is far from degenerate, there is plenty of choice in solid decks to play and tweak.
And Delver isn't U/W control.

Delver has sort of been the deck for a while now and this doesn't seem to change it. It's just nice to see more variety.

 

[Veezy]

I finally got MtG online. I'm getting creamed in drafting, but I'm actually improving much faster than I would if I waited to play in a store. Screen name is Veezy, if anyone's interested.

Also, I had a friend of mine introduce me to OCTGN, which is basically a program for playing any sort of trading/non trading card game. He doesn't purchase cards anymore, but it's awesome to be able to build whatever deck you want, try it against a live person playing with whatever deck is on top at the moment, and them put it together all online. Getting the high rez packs for the images takes time, but everything is laid out by the community so there's really no work on the users end. Name's Veezy on that too. If you don't have it yet on your PC, I highly recommend it.

Has there been any confirmation about Titans coming back or not in 2013?

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

I finally got MtG online. I'm getting creamed in drafting, but I'm actually improving much faster than I would if I waited to play in a store. Screen name is Veezy, if anyone's interested.

Also, I had a friend of mine introduce me to OCTGN, which is basically a program for playing any sort of trading/non trading card game. He doesn't purchase cards anymore, but it's awesome to be able to build whatever deck you want, try it against a live person playing with whatever deck is on top at the moment, and them put it together all online. Getting the high rez packs for the images takes time, but everything is laid out by the community so there's really no work on the users end. Name's Veezy on that too. If you don't have it yet on your PC, I highly recommend it.

Has there been any confirmation about Titans coming back or not in 2013?

Not confirmed but they hinted pretty hard that they're not going to.

Edit: I get the feeling I have to buy another snap caster, I broke up my playset for a cavern of souls.

 

[BlewHedgehog]

As someone who's played Delver to absolute mediocrity the last few weeks, I'm surprised that it's having so much success. At my local shop, Slagstorms are everywhere and it seems like a loss is inevitable. I didn't make the Restoration Angel adjustment yet though. And am terrible.

Do these guys just get the bonkers starting 7 every game or what? My deck likes to spit openers of only a pair of Glacial Fortress for mana in game threes.

 

[Pandaman]

late to the favourite creature party:

eesha's in every white deck i've ever made. so damn solid and dat pariah.

i used to think this was the strongest badass in all of magic. i should dig him out and throw him at my brothers eldrazzi deck for a blast from the past.

 

[The Technomancer]

Full Planechase decks are up: http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/arcana/981

I really hope we actually get to visit:

 

[echoshifting]

Trail of the Mage-Rings is badass. Man, what a gorgeous card.

 

[WanderingWind]

Hellrider is mad underrated. It + Thatcher make me really happy.

Finally! A red deck that speaks to my soul!

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

Hellrider is mad underrated. It + Thatcher make me really happy.

Finally! A red deck that speaks to my soul!

Dunno, he's been a staple in R/G aggro so I don't think he's that underrated.

 

[WanderingWind]

Dunno, he's been a staple in R/G aggro so I don't think he's that underrated.

I really think a deck built around Hellrider could compete with Delver.

He's got haste, so Vapor Snag is a minor annoyance, he amplifies damage, Delver wants counters to save him from burn.

I'm probably missing something though. He's incredible for a 4 drop though.

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

I really think a deck built around Hellrider could compete with Delver.

He's got haste, so Vapor Snag is a minor annoyance, he amplifies damage, Delver wants counters to save him from burn.

I'm probably missing something though. He's incredible for a 4 drop though.

It still wastes four mana with vapor snag is the biggest downside.

 

[f0rk]

He's incredible for a 4 drop though.

Not quite as good as Huntmaster though which fits in the same decks. Restoration Angel is amazing as well, and can lead to huge blowouts against Hellrider.
Naya (R/G/W) 'Pod' (Kibler's list only runs 2) is definitely one of the up and coming decks in Standard I think. So many powerful midrange creatures.

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

Not quite as good as Huntmaster though which fits in the same decks. Restoration Angel is amazing as well, and can lead to huge blowouts against Hellrider.
Naya (R/G/W) 'Pod' (Kibler's list only runs 2) is definitely one of the up and coming decks in Standard I think. So many powerful midrange creatures.

I'm surprised more people aren't running torpor orb yet. With my tezz deck I've sided that card in so much and has done so much work it's not even funny.

 

[WanderingWind]

Not quite as good as Huntmaster though which fits in the same decks. Restoration Angel is amazing as well, and can lead to huge blowouts against Hellrider.
Naya (R/G/W) 'Pod' (Kibler's list only runs 2) is definitely one of the up and coming decks in Standard I think. So many powerful midrange creatures.

I don't know. I think Hellrider and Huntmaster are pretty close, depending on the matchup, and W/R is a pretty solid combo in its own right. Restoration Angel is my other favorite new 4 drop, but it's more a defensive card. Hellrider, even if block removed is dealing a ton of damage when it drops.

 

[Leunam]

Hellrider is mad underrated. It + Thatcher make me really happy.

Finally! A red deck that speaks to my soul!

I've got a deck using 4 Hellrider. With only having two on the board, I've dealt around 12 damage before blockers are even declared.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

So what say you GAF: is Avacyn Restored as dull of a limited format as everybody's saying? From what little I've done (1 sealed, 2 draft), it hasn't really clicked with me. I'm going to keep going at it for a little longer, but I think I'm going to find myself going right back to DII pretty quickly.

 

[WanderingWind]

So what say you GAF: is Avacyn Restored as dull of a limited format as everybody's saying? From what little I've done (1 sealed, 2 draft), it hasn't really clicked with me. I'm going to keep going at it for a little longer, but I think I'm going to find myself going right back to DII pretty quickly.

I can't speak to how exciting the limited format is, but I love the hell out of the following cards and they will see eternal play from me forever.

Abundant Growth. Mana fixing and card drawing? Hell yeah.
Cloudshift. Silly shenanigans.
Restoration Angel. See above
Hellrider. How awesome is this card? So awesome.
Bonfire of the Damned. I hope this goes down in price one day, because I need another playset of it. I can't see how any legacy red deck WOULDN'T run this. If you have this for trade, holla atcha boy.

I love the hell out of Avacyn, and I am definitely eating crow on that because I was decidedly nonplussed about the zombie bork AVR represented.

 

[Lucario]

So what say you GAF: is Avacyn Restored as dull of a limited format as everybody's saying? From what little I've done (1 sealed, 2 draft), it hasn't really clicked with me. I'm going to keep going at it for a little longer, but I think I'm going to find myself going right back to DII pretty quickly.

It's very bomb-oriented, like all slow formats. Reminds me of how much drafting mirrodin x3 sucked. (Not scars, original mirrodin.)

 

[divisionbyzorro]

I can't speak to how exciting the limited format is, but I love the hell out of the following cards and they will see eternal play from me forever.

Abundant Growth. Mana fixing and card drawing? Hell yeah.
Cloudshift. Silly shenanigans.
Restoration Angel. See above
Hellrider. How awesome is this card? So awesome.
Bonfire of the Damned. I hope this goes down in price one day, because I need another playset of it. I can't see how any legacy red deck WOULDN'T run this. If you have this for trade, holla atcha boy.

I love the hell out of Avacyn, and I am definitely eating crow on that because I was decidedly nonplussed about the zombie bork AVR represented.

Well, Hellrider is DKA, but I don't disagree with your assessment of the set as far as its impact on constructed. I just find the limited format itself to be extremely uninteresting.

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

The only thing that sucks is lack of removal but I still don't think it's as bad as people make it out to be.

 

[Amibguous Cad]

Well, Hellrider is DKA, but I don't disagree with your assessment of the set as far as its impact on constructed. I just find the limited format itself to be extremely uninteresting.

I haven't drafted extensively since Alara, so it may just be that I'm catching up to modern set design, but I find it interesting that the format is so archetype-based. Mark Rosewater said in a recent column that they've been trying to make limited feel a bit more like constructed in having strongly defined types of decks that work, and that's definitely true of Avacyn Restored. I find it an interesting change of pace from what I'm used to, though it's probably my least favorite of the sets that I've drafted this extensively- Time Spiral and Alara blow it out of the water.

 

[The Technomancer]

Eh, I think its a lot of fun, the biggest problem IMO is that far and away the two most common dominant strategies are R/W and G/U

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

Eh, I think its a lot of fun, the biggest problem IMO is that far and away the two most common dominant strategies are R/W and G/U

Why is that a problem?

 

[The Technomancer]

Why is that a problem?

Just doesn't feel very diverse from what I've played

 

[Lucario]

I haven't drafted extensively since Alara, so it may just be that I'm catching up to modern set design, but I find it interesting that the format is so archetype-based. Mark Rosewater said in a recent column that they've been trying to make limited feel a bit more like constructed in having strongly defined types of decks that work, and that's definitely true of Avacyn Restored. I find it an interesting change of pace from what I'm used to, though it's probably my least favorite of the sets that I've drafted this extensively- Time Spiral and Alara blow it out of the water.

There were so many fun archtypes in triple innistrad, too, without any of them being dominant. Drafting Burning Vengeance was a blast.

 

[TheSeks]

What are "Avatars" supposed to be? They're cards that I got with the M:tG:O starter pack. They seem like enchantments that are pretty weak but have no costs to cast?

 

[Haly]

In regular games, they serve as a profile picture and noting else. In Vanguard games, you can choose one of them to be your "leader" and you'll gain their effects for the duration of the game. Kind of like EDH but not really.

http://www.wizards.com/magic/tcg/article.aspx?x=magic/magiconline/vanguard

 

[TheSeks]

Oh, so not that useful.

And I can't seem to find the DotP decklists in my decklist decklist now that I have an account. :/ Thankfully, it's auto-defaulted to Wielding Steel which is still a godly deck. Nearly had someone kill me until I blocked their one attacker, pacified another and basically chipped them away while they attempted to "the rack" and discard (Liana's Wrath or something like that) harm me. An interesting idea, but not good it seems for tempo. Too many lands not enough discarding.

 

[siddx]

Drafting acacyn has been a little dull but not terrible. Drafts come down to either getting lots of white and red humans, or snatching up all the green everyone passed up. Block draft on the other hand is way more varied.

 

[TheSeks]

Well, I bought a 2012 Deckbuilders toolkit and the DotP 09 and 4 expansions for it (2-4) pack for the sake of having the DotP 09 decks to edit/make in Magic Online.

Though, now that I have 2,600 or so cards to apparently wade through, I kinda wish the binder GUI was better and there was filters for sets and formats. :/

Speaking of which, is there any way to buy classic card/boosters/decks or is it just "tournament block/legal" FINAL DESTINATION-levels of the store?

 

[Haly]

Well, I bought a 2012 Deckbuilders toolkit and the DotP 09 and 4 expansions for it (2-4) pack for the sake of having the DotP 09 decks to edit/make in Magic Online.

I wouldn't have bought the Deckbuilder's toolkit, I think people generally prefer to buy singles.

Though, now that I have 2,600 or so cards to apparently wade through, I kinda wish the binder GUI was better and there was filters for sets and formats. :/

There is. Drop down menu near the top. You can filter by set, block, and format. The tabs on the sides of your virtual binder also let you explore one set at a time. Top left search box filters by card text (any kind), and the colors/card types should be obvious.

Speaking of which, is there any way to buy classic card/boosters/decks or is it just "tournament block/legal" FINAL DESTINATION-levels of the store?

Not from the official store but you can find older boosters from bots which you can buy with tickets.

 

[TheSeks]

Not from the official store but you can find older boosters from bots which you can buy with tickets.

That sucks. I wonder if I can get my 8th Edition Starter pack with that code for Magic Online 1.0 that I saved but never could use since I never had a credit card at the time if I e-mail Wizards. Doubt it. :/

 

[divisionbyzorro]

Not from the official store but you can find older boosters from bots which you can buy with tickets.

Don't cube drafts give out older packs as prizes too?

 

[Haly]

I missed the second time they opened cube drafting, and I see they award Time Spiral block booster.

So I guess once cube drafting becomes a regular event it'll be easier for bots to restock with older packs.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

Pretty sure Angel of Glory's Rise is my favorite card from Avacyn Restored...

Spoiler

Yes, those are all triggered abilities going on the stack. He ended up dying to a 24/24 Riot Ringleader who couldn't be blocked.

Well, if there's one thing I've learned this evening, screwing around with this reanimation deck, it's that I'm not very good at building or piloting reanimator decks. But they sure are fun when they work!

 

[WanderingWind]

Don't one of you guys live in Honolulu?

 

[FreedomFrisbee]

What did the revised starter decks have in them? Can't find a contents list anywhere. For reference, this thing:

http://www.trollandtoad.com/p87558.html

 

[Lucario]

What did the revised starter decks have in them? Can't find a contents list anywhere. For reference, this thing:

http://www.trollandtoad.com/p87558.html

They're randomized.

 

[BlewHedgehog]

A friend knocked me out of top 8 a few nights ago playing Sam Black's Bant Spirits Pod deck. The deck looked like a lot of fun and you guys may want to give it a try if you're looking to play something a little different.

Artifacts
4 Birthing Pod

Artifact Creatures
1 Phyrexian Metamorph

Creatures
1 Acidic Slime
2 Avacyn's Pilgrim
4 Birds of Paradise
1 Blade Splicer
1 Borderland Ranger
4 Drogskol Captain
2 Dungeon Geists
1 Geist-Honored Monk
3 Llanowar Elves
4 Phantasmal Image
1 Restoration Angel
4 Strangleroot Geist
1 Sun Titan


Instants
1 Naturalize

Planeswalkers
1 Venser, the Sojourner

Basic Lands
7 Forest
1 Island
1 Plains

Lands
4 Cavern of Souls
1 Gavony Township
1 Hinterland Harbor
1 Moorland Haunt
4 Razorverge Thicket
4 Seachrome Coast

At the post tourney Denny's trip, he'd mentioned that he would like to cut the number of Pods by 1 or 2 and up the count of Blade Splicer and/or Restoration Angel. Words cannot describe the agony you'll feel when your opponent Pods Strangleroot Geist into Drogskol Captain and then follows by Imaging his Captain. It was brutal and my Delver list, as well as a number of other decks, didn't have an answer for it.

On an unrelated note, my recent experiences make Massacre Wurm seem unreal right now. Every deck I play either runs all X/1s or at least rests on X/2s until their Titan shows up. I would love to drop him against any of the myriad token decks on the loose right now, or against Huntmaster and his wolf buddy. Could possibly go the Lingering Souls route to stay alive, but it still seems like Strangleroot Geist would have me pretty dead by the time the Wurm is available. Most of my ideas from there lead in the direction of Sun Titan or Elesh Norn, in which case why not just play the decks that already run them and forget about the Wurm. Any thoughts?

 

[Negator]

Vampire Nocturnus is back omg!

Vampires shall rise again!

*looks at other vampires in standard*

 

[f0rk]

I guess a Clone reprint means no more Phantasmal Image.

And a strictly worse Incinerate lol

Captain of the Watch could be a pretty good Titan replacement, 9 power over 4 bodies with Vigilance. Dies to sweepers though.

http://www.wizards.com/magic/tcg/article.aspx?x=mtg/tcg/magic2013/cig#

 

[kirblar]

The incinerate replacement is probably due to Wolfir Avenger getting blown up by Incinerate inadvertently.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

I really want to punch the guy who invented Snapcaster Mage in the face.

Mana Leak, that's fine. Counterspells are a part of Magic.

Snapcaster into Mana Leak just infuriates me. And now we have Cloudshift into Snapcaster into Mana leak too?

 

[Lucario]

I guess a Clone reprint means no more Phantasmal Image.

And a strictly worse Incinerate lol

Captain of the Watch could be a pretty good Titan replacement, 9 power over 4 bodies with Vigilance. Dies to sweepers though.

http://www.wizards.com/magic/tcg/article.aspx?x=mtg/tcg/magic2013/cig#

That's kind of odd. With the pushed power level of clones (Sakashima's Student, Evil Twin Phyrexian Metamorph, Phantasmal Image,) I assumed the "true" cost of a clone would be redefined to 3cc, or 4cc with an additional ability; after all, Evil Twin is the same CC as Clone, and has a kill spell glued to it.

Seems really shitty. Without good clones in standard (rotation loses metamorph and image), I sense Invisible Stalker and Geist of St Traft will be fairly dominant post-rotation. At least swords are going to leave, but we still have increasing savagery... =\

 

[The Technomancer]

Loooooooove it!

 

[ultron87]

The one thing I don't like about that Gorgon is that the effect is permanent and removing the counter doesn't actually do anything.