100% Agree. As long as we get some great games, it should not matter who makes the console. Until MS and Sony show their cards, nobody really knows. Its just a shame we have to wait so long to find out the future of the industry.
CPU Wii U just as powerful as PS3, X360, GPU 1,5 times stronger
- Thread starter M°°nblade
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100% Agree. As long as we get some great games, it should not matter who makes the console. Until MS and Sony show their cards, nobody really knows. Its just a shame we have to wait so long to find out the future of the industry.
Aren't your examples teaching us that the market is massively predictable for Nintendo instead?
So like what I have been saying, they are just joining current gen. and by the looks of it, not that many 3rd party devs give a shit at this point.
Next year we will get probably two new beastly toys, that will get support from 3rd party. For God sakes Watch Dogs has been confirmed for PS360 and other consoles, but not wiiu! That says a lot.
On top of that Nintendo just had probably the worst "launch of a console" press conference ever. Did they convince anyone who was undecided to get WiiU at launch?
Next year we will get probably two new beastly toys, that will get support from 3rd party. For God sakes Watch Dogs has been confirmed for PS360 and other consoles, but not wiiu! That says a lot.
On top of that Nintendo just had probably the worst "launch of a console" press conference ever. Did they convince anyone who was undecided to get WiiU at launch?
PdotMichael
Banned
"a lot of people" that's so silly... I bet "a lot of people" predicted something different
Always-honest
Banned
That depends. Maybe in the first two years.
I honestly wouldn't care, but it would suck for people with one console and for Nintendo.
Their first two years will be key
A picture of an out-dated dev kit tells us nothing.
Though one of the comments on the site says GameCube dev kits were running at half speed up until 2 months before launch. So there's still hope that horse power might be jacked up before launch.
MrNyarlathotep
Banned
Feel free to go read threads about those events on GAF, and make a note of what the overwhelming public sentiments were in each case.
EDIT:
Not really, I picked Nintendo 'wisdom of the crowd' examples as it's most apt here. All gaming companies have had successes / failures at odds with 'gamer perception'.
I personally thought the Kinect was going to absolutely bomb, and was pretty vocal about it in a lot of early Kinect threads, and was completely wrong.
I also thought that the DS was not going to be as successful as the gameboy was, and all of it's talk of being "a third pillar" was basically admitting it was a bit of an experiment like the virtual boy was.
walking fiend
Member
Not really; 3DS could have been on life support if they couldn't cut the price or hadn't done so that suddenly.
Gahiggidy
My aunt & uncle run a Mom & Pop store, "The Gamecube Hut", and sold 80k WiiU within minutes of opening.
It tells us that the spec released by the same site earlier this week are more credible. The same source sending pics of the Dev kit is very likely the one's supplying that Wii U technical feature set.
The GAF concensous is more often than not the complete opposite of what happens in reality, except for probably the Vita.
walking fiend
Member
yes, but still we don't know what has happened afterward; and plus, these leaked specs aren't really that specific.
However, if I remember correctly, IdeaMan also mentioned that the first dev kits didn't support DRC? I think that should give him credibility too.
"Not that specific" is a nice way of putting it. The specs are completely weird. Why would they explain the cache configuration but leave out important aspects like bitness or anything about floating point or vector units? Nothing about busses, nothing about memory controllers, not to mention no SPUs or clocks?
walking fiend
Member
maybe the leaker didn't know these details either; does a normal developer needs to know the remaining details during their development?
I am tech illiterate, only enough that knowing the model of GPU and CPU will be hardly enough to tell how they will perform. I don't know if being a series 4xxx GPU means it will not support DX11.1 features.
DeFiBkIlLeR
Banned
It wont...which is why Unreal Engine 4 isn't compatible.
Weren't Wii dev kits running at about half speed (basically Gamecube specs) until a few months before launch as well? I vaguely remember hearing something like that around the time.
The only problem with that argument is the fact that due to the incremental jump in hardware specs the Wii U provides incomparison to 360 / PS3, I can not see anyone investing their money buying a Wii U if they are primarily a 360 or PS3 user.
It is not enough of an upgrade to warrant the investment, now a Wii only user is a different matter but as I say a gamer who plays on 360 or PS3 will most definitely wait on the next gen playstation or xbox, their money will get them newer tech that represents a much bigger jump in hardware over the previous generation.
walking fiend
Member
taking advantage of DX11 doesn't mean it cannot be used with DX10 cards.
Replace Wii U with Wii, 360 with Xbox and PS3 with PS2, wow it's 2006.
What?
Are you comparing the jump from PS2 to PS3 the same as the jump from PS3 to Wii.
Or do you think that Wii U will have the same success with the casual / non traditional market as the Wii?
If it is the first point, you are very wrong, if it is the second point ...... not going to happen, there is much more competition in the market for the casual / non traditional demographic.
Or are you saying the Wii took away users that where Xbox or PS2 owners? .... lol.
PdotMichael
Banned
It's not my job to prove your argumentation.
Nope. It's not a stock 4000 series card. It's going to be extremely customized so it can have features that are absent in the 4000 series of GPUs.
Ps3 and Xbox 360 are going to sell dozens of millions combined in the next 2-3 years.
They have social games and peripherals and will cost less money.
As showed by the fast decline of Wii and the bad launch of 3ds(still a commercial failure despite the huge sales) the casual gaming is in decline.
Kinect was a success but not comparable to the wiimote.
Also does this wiipad have the same appeal of the wiimote?
I don't think so, surely is more complicated to use.
They have social games and peripherals and will cost less money.
As showed by the fast decline of Wii and the bad launch of 3ds(still a commercial failure despite the huge sales) the casual gaming is in decline.
Kinect was a success but not comparable to the wiimote.
Also does this wiipad have the same appeal of the wiimote?
I don't think so, surely is more complicated to use.
They said on GTTV that UE4 will run on tablets and phones. I don't see why it wouldn't run on far more powerful hardware.
plagiarize
Banned
you've defined a very narrow definition of 'gamer who plays on 360 or PS3' and extrapolated it out to EVERYONE who owns a 360 or PS3.
of course the Wii grabbed a lot of PS2 owners. which system had all the casual friendly titles in that generation? who was playing DDR, and Buzz, and Singstar, and all those other hugely successful casual games that we saw on the PS2? which system did they buy?
well, quite. but see, casuals aren't generally buying any console at launch. the dozens of millions who bought the PS2 late on for Guitar Hero, Singstar, Buzz, etc largely haven't bought any console at launch.
how are you defining 'commercial failure' here? the bad launch of the 3DS was down to it being over priced and lacking suitable system driving software. not because casual gaming is in decline. do you know how we know this? once they dropped the price and released the killer games the system began selling well and has continued to do so.
we don't know obviously, but touch screens are not complex, and if you think about the 'asymmetric' experiences shown off, how many of the ones focussed on using the sticks and buttons and the touch screen at the same time? NSMBU and Rayman both just require use of the touch screen. families MAY think the 'you can play on it without tying up the TV' feature is killer, if that feature is widely supported anyway.
i don't think anyone sane is predicting this to be as massive as the Wii, but then neither is the 360. failing to be as massive as the Wii still leaves you loads of room to be a great success.
I'm saying that your argument is exactly the same one that people made prior to this generation. I have no idea whether the tablet will catch on, it might it might not, but history suggests that it is stupid to base your prediction on graphical power. And on your last point... You don't think the Wii stole a lot of PS2 users? The PS2 sold 150 million, it was the overwhelming market leader, and software like Singstar and Eye Toy was very popular. The majority of those users certainly didn't migrate to the PS3 did they.
Just like the Wii did, wait what
Gaming4Lyfe
Neo Member
I think the WII U will be way better than current Gen system. ITs probably referring to GPU Clock speed. But I bet the GPU has at least 4 times as much video ram.
The CPU on game consoles are way ahead of their time in comparison to the GPUs. So it doesn't matter if the CPU is only slightly faster than xbox 360 and PS3. To me, that just means the system will be affordable and probably dominate the next generation of video gaming.
The CPU on game consoles are way ahead of their time in comparison to the GPUs. So it doesn't matter if the CPU is only slightly faster than xbox 360 and PS3. To me, that just means the system will be affordable and probably dominate the next generation of video gaming.
MrNyarlathotep
Banned
If it didn't, a lot of PS2 owners just gave up gaming completely, but were replaced by the 'blue ocean' audience the wii brought in.
So if it's true those people have all moved on to iPads or whatever, well, gaming is fucked.
None of my 'a lot of people' statements are even remotely controversial, and frankly I couldn't care less if you believe them or not.
General consensus fell behind the statements I posted, outlier opinions didn't, outlier opinions were correct.
I would love to hear the explanation for that statement.
I know, with the most popular middleware being able to export for wii and all, wait what
If whoever leaked this needed to know about low level stuff like L1 locking or the write gather pipe, he'd most likely need to know about vector capabilities as well.
No the market split, some went over to Xbox (hence the vast increase in Xbox market share), some stayed with PS3.
At around 60-70 million sell through for each console (360-PS3) that more or less is the effective splitting in half of the PS2's install base.
Some PS2 owners were casual, they maybe went Wii but the core player did not migrate to the Wii.
Hence Nintendos claim last e3 that they wanted the core back.
yup, and i revealed the flash memory situation before this leak, and it was unheard before (the 512MB of separated NAND for the OS storage). This spec sheet appears legit (i didn't have the "detailed" GPU description, the rest seems good, grain of salt however), and as you said, the fact they got the dev kit pictures + the PS4 specs (they seems legit also) make those leaked Wii U specs believable. But, those are the target specs, available for developers a year ago ! It's good to speculate about, but it's not the hardware currently inside the system.
MrNyarlathotep
Banned
X360 and PS3 are at about 65 million each.
the PS2 was at about 150 million.
so thats about 20 million users you just discounted, assuming that the userbase of the 360 and the PS3 has been entirely stagnant between generations, and that almost nobody owns both a PS3 and a 360.
walking fiend
Member
Thanks, now I have no idea why the specs is incomplete.
I am not sure if it is good even for that; I mean, the radeon 4xxx can range from weak sauce so completely powerful.
Do you have any info on how powerful the final hardware is? for example in terms of what 4xxx it is equivalent to?
And also thanks for all the leaks. I think if it wasn't for your info, people expectations would have had been much more unrealistic.
y
Just two points:
- PS2 being at 150 is the recent sales; that is, for all we know, like 5m opted to purchase PS2 last year and not PS3/360/Wii;
- Likely there are many people who purchases 360/PS3 more than once (going RROD, low HD, etc.)
So you're saying that 70 million Wiis were sold to people that had never bought a console before (assuming there's about 30mil Nintendo fans)? Seems legit.
The fact is the there is a lot of crossover between the so called core and the so called casual audiences. It's not as polarised as you think.
Also I think, given the differences between the Wii and the HD twins, that there are a lot more two console houses this gen, which makes raw console sales a bit misleading, and contradicts your argument that no core gamer would be seen dead with a wii and vice versa. I mean MS were actively encouraging wii60 in the early days.
Re-read the post you just part quoted and I state that some of the casual owners may very well have went over to the Wii.
But effectively the PS2 install base ended being split between the HD twins, and I would hazard a guess and say very few of those users will drop the money on a console that represents a small increase in power over the current gen (excluding the Wii, Wii U is a big jump from that).
Most PS3 and 360 owners will progress to either of the new offerings from MS and Sony.
Are you a one console owner? True gamers have always bought multiple systems not to miss the best exclusives. PC gamers have suffered outdated PS3 and x360 graphics for years, yet most of them still play these consoles exclusives and enjoy it. So now sometimes in the next 2 years, x360 and PS3 owners will discover PC graphics. True gamers among these will not dismiss Wii U, which should have even more unique games than previous consoles.
True gamer?
Please don't start with that shit, I have owned a PS3 and a 360 this gen and currently only own a PS3.
Wii was too underpowered for me and I don't like motion control.
True gamer? ... lol.
Eteric Rice
Member
Oh God, the "true gamer" thing. Why is it back? I THOUGHT WE KILLED IT LAST TIME! :*(
Sho_Nuff82
Member
Fundamentally flawed comparison, as the PS2 had the overwhelming support of casual gamers, many of whom transitioned to Wii. The market was split into HD/non-HD, and the primary software movers for the HD side were shooters, online, sports, racers, and rpgs. As of right now, why is the Wii U a better stop-gap console for a PS3 owner than a 360, or vice versa?
nordique
Member
MrNyarlathotep
Banned
But for your statement to hold true, with the sales numbers as they are;
- Nobody 'new' to core gaming (ie buying their first console) bought a 360 or a PS3
- People who own a 360 don't own a PS3
- 80 million people decided to 'jump in' with a Wii
- hardly anybody on GAF (who by any assessment must be labelled as a 'core gamer') owns a Wii (and I guess by inference are just diehard Nintendo fans / GC owners?)
EDIT:
I mean,
That describes YOU and YOU ALONE, not the market at large.
I like how people assume developers will just leave Wii U behind when the next Xbox and PS4 come out (and assume those two will be a gigantic leap above at the same time, even though neither officially exists yet).
If the Wii U is selling well and the HD Twin Jrs are more powerful than it, it'll be like the PS2 situation where games were made for PS2 first then ported up to GameCube and Xbox, with GC/Xbox first party games and few third party games starting on the more powerful consoles first and being exclusive or just being downported later.
In the immediate future we should be seeing 360/PS3 projects that also have a PC version end up with higher resolution textures on Wii U, and probably running in native 720p or 1080p if the dev really wants it. Let's remember how awesome some new 360 and PS3 games look, and realize Nintendo's console has four times the RAM than that. Imagine Skyrim on Wii U with the Hi-Res Pack included. Even at 720p it'd be a noticeable difference over the 360 version.
It should be, since they reserved part of the Wii's internal memory for cache. This should also be noted, as developers (in theory, depending on how much Nintendo reserves) a much larger cache to depend on existing than the 360.
DarkoMaledictus
Tier Whore
Talk about getting late to the party... This is going to be bad once the other consoles get their beefed up consoles....
The Wii was the darling of the mainstream press for years, it was the in thing among the masses and a huge percentage of them never bought another game ... the Wii became a Wii Sports machine.
Software sales for most games (except Nintendo core and party / dance games) sold abysmally.
For such a vast install base the attach rates for games sold per console where dreadful.
The majority of Wii sales where to non gamers jumping on the bandwagon.
Also my post is not to be taken exactly in terms of figures etc, but in a rough sense what I stated I believe to be accurate.
edit: I stated it was too underpowered for me and that I don't like motion control.
No idea at the moment, it's too early to say. My point was that dismissing the Wii U for graphical reasons is a mistake that has been proved time and time again by history. I could easily see the streaming feature being a pretty massive selling point if they market it properly. But it is true that they seem to be primarially targeting the same audience that made the Wii a success.
lol, ver true.