Support NeoGAF

[eastmen]

This is exactly what Microsoft needed to do. In short I'm impressed, good job Microsoft. I might even buy one of these.



This is a very important question.

Someone answer this.

as long as drivers for all the parts exist then yes you should be able to put it on

 

[Gary Whitta]

It's not flexible.

I still wouldn't expect it to be stable on a lap. We'll see.

 

[Outtrigger888]

My local news just showed surface, girlfriend saw it and now wants one, gonna go with the pro model

 

[DiscoJer]

For the record, I'm not downplaying Ivy Bridge's GPU performance. Just trying to reign in expectations before people start believing in desktop numbers for ULV processors.

Also bear in mind those resolutions they benchmarked at are lower than the 1920x1080 of this. Maybe it will have a decent scaling chip, but...usually native resolution just looks the best.

 

[eznark]

Civ5 runs like shit on my desktop with reasonable sized maps and more than 6 AI. And that's an OCed i7 2600K with 2 GPUs. Sid Meier will need to bust out the C++, toss that civ5 engine, and redo it.

Why would you want to play V anyway? IV will run great!

 

[alternade]

Sure as hell looks like a premium product though.

It does im not gonna lie but what is the benefit that you can sell to someone to get a Windows Tablet? I don't think people expect to be productive on a tablet yet and thus aren't willing to buy into the idea that you can use it to replace a laptop/desktop.

Microsoft is going to try and sell this like a primary product and all tablets are right now are supplementary for most people. Besides that does anyone even really want Windows on the go? *looks at windows phone*

 

[numble]

But is this some special MetroUI version of Office?

That "news" about ARM running "only Office and IE" confuses me.. so MS bothered to completely re-code the entire Office Suite from the ground up for ARM, and then..

.. are giving it away?

Or is this some special ARM only MetroUI version?

I think it will draw casual consumers if they're looking at the two models side by side at Best Buy. This one is half price and comes with MS Office installed, that one is heavier, double the price, and doesn't come with free MS Office.

I also think that, since Office on ARM runs in Desktop mode, it will confuse people into thinking that the ARM devices can run other old desktop apps--if it's good enough to run Office, it should be able to run Firefox, Chrome and iTunes, which are much simpler, right?

 

[injurai]

It's not flexible.

Thank god!!! but that brings up another issue.

It relies on the back-stand for support since it doesn't have hinges. Will my lap provide enough stability for it.

 

[border]

...and I think you guys are underselling the capabilities of an i5 + HD4000 graphics.

a look at the benchmarks tells you it can do more than "lightweight stuff".

Most of the benchmarks I looked up show the HD4000 choking on games once it gets up to 1080P.....which is presumed to be the Pro's native resolution.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Interesting.

I've been a bit under a rock when it comes to actually viewing demos or playing with Windows 8. Mostly just read information.

I need to mess with it more.

That just seems like an odd contradiction.. to charge for Office with the Pro version.. when they had to completely re-code it for the ARM version.

Indeed. But I suppose they expect full-fledged OS tablets to sell themselves, where the ARM-based systems need some help.

I tend to agree with them given their competition.

Most of the benchmarks I looked up show the HD4000 choking on games once it gets up to 1080P.....which is presumed to be the Pro's native resolution.

yes, my commentary was always given playing below native resolution.

but it's clear to me now that my guess was too high, and that based on some other posts that it will not be as powerful as I was thinking by any stretch. I stand corrected.

 

[Divvy]

I still wouldn't expect it to be stable on a lap. We'll see.

Probably not. Depends on how you're sitting I guess. They said it feels similar to a hardbook cover.

 

[nyong]

That x64 version looks so fucking incredible. I'll buy it at a high price.

Yep, if I can combine my laptop and tablet into one device I'll happily pay a premium. In the end, I'll actually end up saving some money that way.

 

[CountAntonius]

If all XBLA games came out for Windows 8, and they worked on the base tablet with an Xbox controller I'd buy one.

Yep. This would be phenomenal.

 

[To Far Away Times]

This look nice but it looks expensive. Microsoft is not a premium brand and if they try and price this like they are it will fail in a world of ipads and $200 Android tablets.

This needs to come in at $399 and not a penny higher.

The Surface tablet should do just fine. Every iPad and Andriod tablet runs a cell phone OS' on a large screen. Surface (Pro) runs the real deal, full blown windows 8. It's in a totally different league.

 

[Gary Whitta]

It does im not gonna lie but what is the benefit that you can sell to someone to get a Windows Tablet? I don't think people expect to be productive on a tablet yet and thus aren't willing to buy into the idea that you can use it to replace a laptop/desktop.

Microsoft is going to try and sell this like a primary product and all tablets are right now are supplementary for most people. Besides that does anyone even really want Windows on the go? *looks at windows phone*

There has never been a tablet/laptop crossover like this though and if MS markets it right (I admit that is a BIG if) people's perceptions will change.

 

[nVidiot_Whore]

Indeed. But I suppose they expect full-fledged OS tablets to sell themselves, where the ARM-based systems need some help.

I tend to agree with them given their competition.

I dunno.. I kind of see it as the opposite approach.

I think while this thread full of geeks focuses on the Pro version, MS's marketing and sales will focus on pushing Windows RT. I think they see the "Pro" model as selling only moderately well, but to people who need it more as a tool, so are willing to spend more... whereas the market for the RT version is the real big money maker, sell 10 million devices, etc..

And that market is used to buying 1.99 software and then complaining in reviews that it wasn't 99 cents.

And they will keep trying to push Metro UI on their desktop developer partners.

 

[JoeBoy101]

I also think it doesn't come with the stylus and any cover. Those are extra for sure. They aren't going to eat that profit.

MS are not fools, even if they make foolish decisions at times (sometimes more frequently than others). They still could make a foolish decision, but I think they could recognize that they are starting at a 0% market share in this space, regardless of some of their built-in OS and software advantages, so they will need to take a hit on the hardware up front so they can get traction in the market. Its also why I think they'll bundled the Stylus and kbover with the Pro, and the kbover with the RT.

How big a hit is the question, and the $899 to me feels right, with a possible $799 bomb possible, but pretty unlikely (this all based on the 64 GB Pro mind you). Anything over $1000, and I think they're not taking enough of a hit comparatively. Over $1100, and they're not going to take the hit, which will be a huge mistake.

 

[venne]

I still wouldn't expect it to be stable on a lap. We'll see.

I'd prop it up on my erection.

Sexy hardware, that.

 

[VanMardigan]

That's a good point. But I wonder if GOG would have to update games to run on Windows 8?

They would not have to on the Pro version.

 

[AlexMogil]

Why would you want to play V anyway? IV will run great!

After tonight you'll want to run Civ V.

 

[Bullza2o]

This really looks like the future of PC, and I'm very interested in it.

If there's one thing that can convince me to get a tablet, it will only be because of Windows 8/Surface. Especially the fact that I can actually play PC games like Diablo III on a tablet and not be limited in being a computer environment (aka iPad).

 

[eznark]

There has never been a tablet/laptop crossover like this though and if MS markets it right (I admit that is a BIG if) people's perceptions will change.

The key thing with this is that the enterprise adoption will fuel the marketing and general financial backing of the product which will allow them big spends to get them
In the hands of general consumers. Unlike Zune and Phone, the Surface has a built in and eager market with deep pockets

Microsoft would have to actively try and fun this up basically.

 

[Windu]

The key thing with this is that the enterprise adoption will fuel the marketing and general financial backing of the product which will allow them big spends to get them
In the hands of general consumers. Unlike Zune and Phone, the Surface has a built in and eager market with deep pockets

Microsoft would have to actively try and fun this up basically.

dagnabit, Microsoft has gone and funned it up.

 

[coldfoot]

It's still possible. The 11.6-inch Zenbook with a 128GB SSD is $860 from Amazon. I don't really think it's going to cost $999, not when it's a full inch smaller and it has half the storage space, even if the screen is higher res.

Putting in a discounted last generation Sandy Bridge model when IVB is out is hardly fair comparison. Not to mention a 1080p screen + digitizer cost real money. It's also more expensive, not cheaper, to pack a IVB CPU in a 10.1" chassis instead of a 11.6".

 

[NullPointer]

It does im not gonna lie but what is the benefit that you can sell to someone to get a Windows Tablet? I don't think people expect to be productive on a tablet yet and thus aren't willing to buy into the idea that you can use it to replace a laptop/desktop.

I think there's a nice market out there of people who want to be able to be productive with their tablets.

News like this can change expectations.

 

[nyong]

I dunno.. I kind of see it as the opposite approach.

I think while this thread full of geeks focuses on the Pro version, MS's marketing and sales will focus on pushing Windows RT.

And they will keep trying to push Metro UI on their desktop developer partners.

The RT model I see as aimed at the average iPad consumers. I wish them luck in that endeavor, but they've got an uphill battle in front of them.

The x86, however, is going to swiftly and effortlessly steal back the business world. And convert many-a laptop consumer, and those people (like me) who love their tablets--which I'm on right now--but want something more akin to a fully-featured PC.

This, not the iPad, is the future of touch-screen computing IMO.

 

[numble]

I dunno.. I kind of see it as the opposite approach.

I think while this thread full of geeks focuses on the Pro version, MS's marketing and sales will focus on pushing Windows RT. I think they see the "Pro" model as selling only moderately well, but to people who need it more as a tool, so are willing to spend more... whereas the market for the RT version is the real big money maker, sell 10 million devices, etc..

And that market is used to buying 1.99 software and then complaining in reviews that it wasn't 99 cents.

And they will keep trying to push Metro UI on their desktop developer partners.

By making Office on RT run in Desktop mode, and not Metro mode, there is room for a lot of confusion.

 

[AkuMifune]

The key thing with this is that the enterprise adoption will fuel the marketing and general financial backing of the product which will allow them big spends to get them
In the hands of general consumers. Unlike Zune and Phone, the Surface has a built in and eager market with deep pockets

Microsoft would have to actively try and fun this up basically.

True. iPad exists in the business world as a convenience and novelty.

People like to troll Office, but a tablet with full capabilities (yes, pro version) could be huge. Like huuuuge.

 

[JoeBoy101]

Microsoft would have to actively try and fun this up basically.

I wouldn't underestimate their ability in this.

Still, signs are positive so far. But yeah, as I said before, the enterprise market is pretty much untapped for tablets. MS getting in on this with surface (not unlike the PC strategy back in the day) would mean big things.

 

[strata8]

Putting in a discounted last generation Sandy Bridge model when IVB is out is hardly fair comparison. Not to mention a 1080p screen + digitizer cost real money. It's also more expensive, not cheaper, to pack a IVB CPU in a 10.1" chassis instead of a 11.6".

Ah, forgot about the digitizer.

 

[eznark]

dagnabit, Microsoft has gone and funned it up.

I'm going to fun you up if you don't watch it.

 

[teh_pwn]

ivy bridge processor is probably 300 dollars itself

A single desktop i7 processor at newegg.com, sure. I'm guessing hundreds of thousands of mobile i7s go cheaper.

 

[Dog Problems]

They would not have to on the Pro version.

That's good to know. I wasn't sure how much of a drastic change Windows 8 is compared to 7. Like, if it's a big enough change to have to update their games to work on the new OS.

 

[injurai]

Who else is super giddy!!!

 

[chickdigger802]

yeah... that pro version is looking to be really appealing for the business crowd.

I know a lot of people in marketing just get ipads these days for work, and this seems like a potentially better alternative due to it being... well windows.

 

[To Far Away Times]

Anyone think this will be Ballmer's defining moment as a CEO?

 

[Lynn616]

So when does Microsoft release Surface phones?

 

[cnizzle06]

Who else is super giddy!!!

The giddiness shall dissipate while we're waiting months for this things release.

 

[JoeBoy101]

yeah... that pro version is looking to be really appealing for the business crowd.

I know a lot of people in marketing just get ipads these days for work, and this seems like a potentially better alternative due to it being... well windows.

Well that, but more importantly, being able to put your own software on it.

I mean, guys, I'm right about that, right? USB an external drive or digital download software to install and you're good to install?

That's what the important thing is as much as Windows compatibility. Configurability of the software environment.

Anyone think this will be Ballmer's defining moment as a CEO?

I think so. As to whether a famous or infamous one, time will tell.

 

[Emily Chu]

So when does Microsoft release Surface phones?

effectively fucking over everyone that got a windows 7 phone ?

unless theres a upgrade route...

 

[la flama blanca]

I want to buy one, but that shitty Windows 8 home screen is the only thing in my way.

 

[thefil]

And I just bought an iPad on Saturday.

 

[Al-ibn Kermit]

With the kickstand out, can you even tilt the screen? Viewing angle will change a lot between typing on a desk vs your lap.

 

[Gary Whitta]

Anyone think this will be Ballmer's defining moment as a CEO?

No, that will always be this:

There's no chance that the iPhone is going to get any significant market share. No chance. It's a $500 subsidized item. They may make a lot of money. But if you actually take a look at the 1.3 billion phones that get sold, I'd prefer to have our software in 60% or 70% or 80% of them, than I would to have 2% or 3%, which is what Apple might get.

But today was a good day for him.

 

[GrizzNKev]

And I just bought an iPad on Saturday.

 

[la flama blanca]

No, that will always be this:


But today was a good day for him.

And he didn't even have to use his AK.

 

[infinityBCRT]

I actually don't remember the last time people reacted this positively to a Microsoft product. Anyone?

Xbox 360 S

 

[Gary Whitta]

And I just bought an iPad on Saturday.

You're well within the return window.

 

[PG2G]

No, that will always be this:

Except he was right. Then it was no longer a $500 subsidized item

 

[To Far Away Times]

I actually don't remember the last time people reacted this positively to a Microsoft product. Anyone?

I think a lot of people have been waiting for something like this.