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[Barack Lesnar]

I'm having a hard time believing Wii U is out in 5 months. That sounds so short. I keep thinking it's a 2013 release for some reason. It feels like it's been only half way revealed. We've seen a handful of shitty games, heard about the wii pad features, some MiiVerse online stuff and that's about it. This thing is out in 5 months, that doesn't sound right to me.

 

[Boss Doggie]

I don't want to comment on topics like this but I still laugh at the fact that people believe in anonymous developers.

 

[Rösti]

Thanks. In due time, hopefully.

I'm currently processing (have done so for a week) a certain Rob at Nintendo of America, though not with requests for a spec sheet or anything similar (at least I didn't explicitly ask for such). I doubt he will provide anything substantial, and it's really a long shot to ask him for information, but maybe you could try your luck with him if you haven't already. PM if you want contact details.

As for the article, I think it's way better than many other recent outings. There's a good balance between the good, the bad and the ugly and it doesn't act as some kind of stultification of Nintendo. Though I keep wondering exactly what the meaning of "performance orphan" is. Does it mean that in terms of portability, Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 are Wii U's parents? And that once these systems are considered legacy products, Wii U will be left out in the pouring rain?

Well, I'm sure there will be a bunch of first party titles that will entice me, but I'm not convinced that Wii U will see any greater third party support than Wii. Hardware (as described in the article) is certainly one key factor as to why some developers would choose to avoid development on Wii U, but other than that I don't think there's any reasons for concern. If you do not want to utilize the Wii U GamePad, just use the Wii U Controller Pro instead. Should work just as well as any Xbox 360 or PlayStation 3 controller, with obvious differences in key mapping of course. Still, I'm skeptical.

 

[Mpl90]

If they show off enough post-launch-window software over the next few months, it won't particularly matter what they didn't show at E3.

Mind you, that's a big if.

Seeing the last Nintendo Direct, and considering the Fall Conference, I'd say it's a matter of when, not if.

P.S. Wii U, as said in the WUST, has modern shader capabilities and functions, according to what we've heard so far, so it won't be the Wii of this generation from a technical standpoint.

 

[Rush2thestart]

Reggie mentioned the launch window during an interview on gametrailers. He made it sound like the wiiU launch window is going to be like the 3ds so 6 months or whatever. By the time they're out of the launch window it will be nearly e3 again.

No he didnt...

He pretty much blatantly said the first 3 months.

 

[GQman2121]

"It will be closer in performance to the next iPad than the next-gen machines.

I think that says a lot more about the next iPad than the Wii U. Nintendo's games are going to look amazing - That's all anyone should care about. If this thing is priced at $299, they'll sell a fuckton of systems and put pressure on the competition.

 

[knitoe]

Eh, the article says the Wii-U gpu is quite powerful. It's the CPU that's the bottleneck which is quite weird.

By today's standard, the GPU is probably very weak too. Even today's low end PC card can probably beat it. It's just "powerful" compare to 7 year old tech.

 

[Betta Lines]

That bit about the Wii U being an iPad is pure craziness. How can anyone take an article seriously with silly stuff like that in it. Just comes across as having some sort of agenda. Maybe that wasn't his intent, but if he was trying to be objective, then it wasn't the best thing to say.

It doesn't sound that unreasonable to me. In terms of hardware power, they might be quite close. After all, the iPad is a much more expensive device, and the hardware cycle is much shorter, so the parts inside the next iPad are probably still being determined, whereas Nintendo would have had to lock down the Wii U specs ages ago.

There was no suggestion in the article that they'd get similar games though. But why not make the comparison? The Wii U's tablet-like controller can't be ignored, so I'd expect to see quite a few small tablet-like games comparable to iPad games on the Wii U store. Nobody is suggesting that the Wii U has to compete against the iPad for its big games.

 

[Father_Brain]

Seeing the last Nintendo Direct, and considering the Fall Conference, I'd say it's a matter of when, not if.

Oh, they'll definitely get further into 2013 software at the fall conference, and maybe the Nintendo Direct in August before that. I'm just doubtful that whatever they show will be enough to defuse the concerns raised by E3.

P.S. Wii U, as said in the WUST, has modern shader capabilities and functions, according to what we've heard so far, so it won't be the Wii of this generation from a technical standpoint.

Not literally, no, and its multiplatform support will undoubtedly benefit to some extent from having a GPU with a 2011 (?) feature set, but ShockingAlberto has posted in the Wii U general thread that for the most part, third parties aren't even considering Wii U as a platform for most next-gen multiplatform games. I'll believe otherwise when I see it.

 

[Mpl90]

Not literally, no, and its multiplatform support will undoubtedly benefit to some extent from having a GPU with a 2011 (?) feature set, but ShockingAlberto has posted in the Wii U general thread that for the most part, third parties aren't even considering Wii U as a platform for most next-gen multiplatform games. I'll believe otherwise when I see it.

In fact, I was talking technically. The possibilities are there. The games? A completely different matter.

 

[EDarkness]

It doesn't sound that unreasonable to me. In terms of hardware power, they might be quite close. After all, the iPad is a much more expensive device, and the hardware cycle is much shorter, so the parts inside the next iPad are probably still being determined, whereas Nintendo would have had to lock down the Wii U specs ages ago.

There was no suggestion in the article that they'd get similar games though. But why not make the comparison? The Wii U's tablet-like controller can't be ignored, so I'd expect to see quite a few small tablet-like games comparable to iPad games on the Wii U store. Nobody is suggesting that the Wii U has to compete against the iPad for its big games.

It's totally unreasonable. How close is the current iPad to the PS3?

 

[Gahiggidy]

Because E3 zapped my enthusiasm for the system. I'll still get it because of Mario...but Nintendo needs to do better the next time that they decide to feature it. Like I said in those old threads, I was planning on switching over to the Wii U as my third party console. But then the third party games I expected to be on the Wii U weren't even announced for it.

Anyway, Nintendo should stop with the bullshit of only wanting to focus on launch window games. I'm honestly not sure why anyone would think that would be a good idea when they're trying to build up a lead before your competition rolls out.

Nintendo, I think, is trying to avoid robbing Peter to pay Paul. They don't want to steal any announcements from next years E3 in order to hype this year's event.

----

About the CPU.. I wonder if the leakers are just going off the raw specs and have not actually spent much time developing for the system? I'd figure a developer who is actively building games for the system is less likely to break the NDA than those in the industry who have access to the documentation but aren't actually coding for it.

 

[Harlock]

The article was a summary of everything we already knew. Slow day news.

 

[Plinko]

By today's standard, the GPU is probably very weak too. Even today's low end PC card can probably beat it. It's just "powerful" compare to 7 year old tech.

No. Nowhere does that article imply this.

 

[blu]

Isn't he saying that the next iPad will be closer to the Wii U in power? Somehow I don't believe that at all. It's crazy talk. How close is the current iPad to the PS3?

Not close at all.

As re next ipad, assuming it will be based on IMG's Rogue, you can expect *up to* a hundred or so GFLOPs of gpu alu. That is, next ipad will still be slower than current gen ps360.

 

[Betta Lines]

It's totally unreasonable. How close is the current iPad to the PS3?

What has that got to do with anything?

 

[Durante]

Could it be possible that the developers just don't understand how the CPU works yet? At least the ones who are talking?

No. It's a normal CPU, using a known architecture, from all we heard even out-of-order. There are no "secrets" to understand.

Isn't he saying that the next iPad will be closer to the Wii U in power? Somehow I don't believe that at all. It's crazy talk. How close is the current iPad to the PS3?

For some reason, people routinely overestimate mobile hardware, especially Apple's. However, I can see the comparison holding up to an extent for the CPU part, if it really is this weak. A modern quad-core ARM could get close.

By today's standard, the GPU is probably very weak too. Even today's low end PC card can probably beat it. It's just "powerful" compare to 7 year old tech.

This is a good point. The relative lack of power in the CPU may be more indicative of the general slow progress of CPUs over the past 7 years compared to GPUs (which have only started to slow down a bit recently).

 

[Neuromancer]

I get more and more excited by the Wii U with each passing day.

 

[marc^o^]

Reggie mentioned the launch window during an interview on gametrailers. He made it sound like the wiiU launch window is going to be like the 3ds so 6 months or whatever. By the time they're out of the launch window it will be nearly e3 again.

I don't believe it for a second. As with 3DS, they are opening a window for 3rd party games to sell at launch. They have no choice if they want 3rd party support than to do that. On the other hand, they won't wait as long as with 3DS to release a new wave of first party titles. Iwata and Reggie mentioned they learnt from 3DS lessons. I'm sure they were talking about having AAA games early on, and an affordable price.

About 3rd party offerings, announced games already make it a far better launch than what wii had. And that it is without, Fifa, Madden, Black Ops or japanese titles that may get announced this summer.

 

[IdeaMan]

As strongly hinted since February on the Wii U speculation threads and confirmed to various people in PM later, for the RAM amount.

But you really have to consider the fact that most of the development of third-party (and i guess first-party also) titles you saw at E3 only took advantage of roughly 1GB, certainly not the double, because, as said many times, of a huge room reserved for the system functions/services/OS, etc.

Tell differently: developers were aware at a certain moment (a few months ago) by Nintendo that the retail Wii U would have 2GB of ram, but the dev kits they used had more, they didn't see those 2GB units themselves. This, combined with the point explained just before, are the reasons why i wasn't totally confident for this ram quantity but it seems it's really that.

Now let's hope Nintendo, like for the 3DS, will free more RAM for the games, once all the software layer will be completed and fully integrated.

 

[outunderthestars]

People buy the Wii U for third party games are going to be sorely disappointed.

 

[Instro]

Eh, the article says the Wii-U gpu is quite powerful. It's the CPU that's the bottleneck which is quite weird.

A lot of recent info points to Nintendo designing the system around GPGPU functionality, so that would probably explain the lack of an equally powerful cpu.

 

[10k]

For fuck sakes Nintendo put a Damn fan in there and clock up those speeds. If we can put up with the turbojet engine sounding xbox360 (the fat one) then we can handle a slightly bigger Wii U with a fan!

 

[outunderthestars]

Wii U launch window is 3-4 months after launch.

Pikmin and Project p-100 are listed as "launch window" and not "holiday" which means they could launch in early 2013....

 

[big_z]

For some reason, people routinely overestimate mobile hardware, especially Apple's.

It's because of those unreal engine games. The iPad can do some shader effects that make games look somewhat comparable but in terms of game complexity there's no comparison.

For fuck sakes Nintendo put a Damn fan in there and clock up those speeds. If we can put up with the turbojet engine sounding xbox360 (the fat one) then we can handle a slightly bigger Wii U with a fan!

One 60mm fan can only do so much. If they were smart they would have used low profile larger fans like in modern custom cooled video cards and exhausted the air out the top like the 360. They could have also gone with a turbine fan design but these cooling solutions probably cost a few cents more than nintendo is willing to spend.

 

[blu]

People buy the Wii U for third party games are going to be sorely disappointed.

I bought a wii for 3rd party games and I'm totally satisfied with my choice. I'll repeat that with the U.

For fuck sakes Nintendo put a Damn fan in there and clock up those speeds. If we can put up with the turbojet engine sounding xbox360 (the fat one) then we can handle a slightly bigger Wii U with a fan!

Judging by how Japan went crazy about the 360..

 

[EDarkness]

What has that got to do with anything?

There is no way in hell the next iPad is anything close to the Wii U. The current iPad isn't close to the PS3 or 360. It's a silly comparison. I'm not saying the Wii U is some beast, but there is no way it's in the same league as an iPad.

 

[Emitan]

People buy the Wii U for third party games are going to be sorely disappointed.

Only third party I care about is from Japan. I have a PC for western games.

 

[donny2112]

If we can put up with the turbojet engine sounding xbox360 (the fat one)

Not that the general video game buying public places fan-speed at the top of their concerns, but 360's biggest push seems to have started with the Slim launch.

 

[IdeaMan]

For the CPU, as stated, bottleneck =/= subpar/0,8x Xenon/whatever
It's just that this particular component represent a less noticeable leap in performances compare to current gen HD systems than for the RAM or the GPU. But it's not at all subpar.

 

[KageMaru]

I don't think the GPU was the bottleneck of the Gamecube, if anything it was the low speed A-RAM and it's size. Should have been like the Wii from the beginning. And Mini-DVDs.

I'm sorry but what's A-RAM?

 

[outunderthestars]

I'm sorry but what's A-RAM?

 

[donny2112]

I'm sorry but what's A-RAM?

Probably the 16 MBs of auxiliary RAM mainly used for sound processing. The main RAM was 24 MBs of 1T-SRAM, in comparison.

Edit:
Also wouldn't call that a bottleneck of GameCube, either. Most developers ran their game code almost exclusively from the 24 MBs of main RAM, IIRC. If they tried to run their main game code from that extra 16 MBs, then it could slow things down, but most didn't, as far as I know.

 

[AndyMoogle]

If "wack" is code for "ridiculously slow in comparison to other mobile devices" then yes.

At least the 3DS can still be held after 15 minutes of game time, unlike some other mobile devices.

It sucks that the Wii U will have an underclocked CPU, but I guess Nintendo have no interest in making even a 100W console, and considering the size of the console, they don't really have any choice if they are going with 45nm parts.

 

[SolidSnakex]

If they show off enough post-launch-window software over the next few months, it won't particularly matter what they didn't show at E3.

Mind you, that's a big if.

E3 would've been a perfect chance to sell those core gamers on the Wii U. Look at all the major titles coming up early next year. Bioshock Infinite, Metal Gear Rising, Tomb Raider, South Park, Crysis 3, Dead Space 3, Devil May Cry, Lost Planet 3, Metro: Last Light and Splinter Cell. Somehow none of those games are currently announced for the system (Metro seems to be on an indefinite hold). It would been a good time for them to bring some of those devs on stage to hype up the console by saying that it'll be the only console where you can play "insert game" at 720p 60fps. Instead we got none of that. They didn't even tell us that stuff like ME3 is apparently running at 60fps on the console. That would've been far more interesting to those core gamers than the Batman stuff that they showed.

I believe that their investor meeting is currently scheduled for the 28th, so hopefully they'll bring out some big guns for that. Most are expecting big things for the Wii U when it comes to Japanese dev support and that would be an obvious place to confirm some of that.

 

[Oxirane]

Regarding: The Wii U being closer in power to the next iPad than the next xbox/playstation.

Isn't that a very broad statement?

e.g. pick arbitrary power levels for next iPad and other consoles

Next iPad = 4
Next XBox = 100
--> Wii U = 0 - 51

 

[Betta Lines]

There is no way in hell the next iPad is anything close to the Wii U. The current iPad isn't close to the PS3 or 360. It's a silly comparison. I'm not saying the Wii U is some beast, but there is no way it's in the same league as an iPad.

The general consensus is that the Wii U is more comparable to the 360/PS3 than the 720/PS4. So why are you asking about the current iPad compared to PS3? You should be asking about the next iPad compared to PS3, as then you are effectively comparing it to the WiiU too.

 

[donny2112]

E3 would've been a perfect chance to sell those core gamers on the Wii U.

E3 is pretty much just for the mainstream press, at this point. Those who actually look for news are possibly being well-served by the Nintendo Directs. It's just that Nintendo is still sticking to holding information until very late in the process compared to what we're used to. :/

 

[Haint]

So is this implying they're purposefully underclocking the CPU well below spec to meet some arbitrary case size, noise level, and power draw, or are they just bargain "binning" (pun intended) the crap IBM would have thrown away? If A, this makes no sense whatsoever, who the fuck would care if they added a square inch or two and another fan.

 

[Gahiggidy]

By the way, how does this article jive with the confirmation that Wii U comes with a large power brick?

 

[EDarkness]

The general consensus is that the Wii U is more comparable to the 360/PS3 than the 720/PS4. So why are you asking about the current iPad compared to PS3? You should be asking about the next iPad compared to PS3, as then you are effectively comparing it to the WiiU too.

Because unless Apple gets a blessing from God, the next iPad isn't gonna be in the same league as the Wii U. It's just not gonna happen.

 

[likeGdid]

I really have to wonder just how important console form factor really is. It's just a box. Is it really a big issue if it's slightly bigger/noisier?

 

[Orayn]

So this is implying they're purposefully underclocking the CPU well below spec to meet some arbitrary case size, noise level, and power draw. Makes no sense whatsoever, who the fuck would care if they added a square inch or two and another fan.

It makes perfect sense to design around some target TDP and make sure heat and power draw are both under control. Do you want a failure rate similar for early 360s and PS3s?

 

[Fourth Storm]

So this is implying they're purposefully underclocking the CPU well below spec to meet some arbitrary case size, noise level, and power draw. Makes no sense whatsoever, who the fuck would care if they added a square inch or two and another fan.

My thoughts exactly. Having a small case is nice and all, but the trade-off is too high. Who cares about how small the box is if said box does not get a good amount of games? Then, the space it takes up is really gonna start mattering to people, cuz it will be collecting dust.

 

[mugurumakensei]

E3 is pretty much just for the mainstream press, at this point. Those who actually look for news are possibly being well-served by the Nintendo Directs. It's just that Nintendo is still sticking to holding information until very late in the process compared to what we're used to. :/

I quite like the Nintendo Directs. I also the Iwata Asks things. The Nintendo Dierects are actually much more to the point and audience directed despite not being live. They are also more frequent as well.

 

[AndyMoogle]

By the way, how does this article jive with the confirmation that Wii U comes with a large power brick?

How large is large, exactly? The Wii has a fairly big AC adapter, about half the size of the one that comes with a 360 S, and the Wii consumes 18-19W while the 360 S consumes >100W. I doubt that the Wii U will consume more than 50-60W.

 

[Disorientator]

What's stopping NINTENDO release a beefier WiiU (you know, with a "+" at the end) in 1-2 years sporting a higher-clocked CPU?

Upad stays the same so just sell the console @ €150 and everyone's happy

 

[Lonely1]

For the CPU, as stated, bottleneck =/= subpar/0,8x Xenon/whatever
It's just that this particular component represent a less noticeable leap in performances compare to current gen HD systems than for the RAM or the GPU. But it's not at all subpar.

Well, that's the one component I can see the Nextbox and Ps4 be totally a gen ahead of.

 

[Haint]

It makes perfect sense to design around some target TDP and make sure heat and power draw are both under control. Do you want a failure rate similar for early 360s and PS3s?

Doesn't matter whether it breaks in a year or two or is an obsolete brick that gets no third party support, the end result is the same.

 

[GoofsterStud]

I'm betting on Nintendo. As a developer I would build for the WiiU first, as it will have a nice install base ahead of the competition, and is likely easier to program. From here, adding a few shader/lighting effects would make it appear close to other PS3/720 titles when ported, and I would need to leave some room for the extra processing in 3D anyway, which the Ferrari gaming sector will expect. Seems like the best profit model.

Developers are suggesting that Wii-U will be the hardest to develop for.

*shrug*