Dating-Age |OT3| Positivity, Confidence, and Not Being a "Nice" Guy

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Attackthebase said:
Only creepy if you make it seem creepy. My friend is good with the ladies, and he is a nerdy short guy. Not one who you would assume to be a player. Perspective is key here. If a woman actually labels you as a creep for touching her slightly, forget her and move on.
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I feel like there's an obvious cue of when or what level of contact is appropriate. If the girl seems like she's into you, chances are touching her is okay. There are pretty obvious things you shouldn't do, like making eye contact while licking your lips. It's creepy and hilarious, but more creepy. Trust me, I do it all the time.

zmoney said:
Might be taking her home. Will let GAF know on a bit. Wish me luck.
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Good luck, friend. Ice it.
 
Hello NeoGAF, I'm in a bit of a pickle and I'd like to see what you guys think. I don't know how seriously I'm going to take this advice as you're a bunch of strangers on the internet but you gentlemen seem to be doing all right so the advice would be well taken.

A few weeks ago I started sleeping with this girl who's been a good friend of mine for a few years now. There's a lot that I like about her, and I can certainly see myself dating her, although admittedly I hadn't thought much about it until the prospect of such a relationship had become realistic. In fact, for as long as I've known her, one of us or the other or both have been in a long-term relationship. Our friendship has always been somewhat irregular, however, as she's slept in my bed multiple times and we've gone on vacation together; my ex, in particular, felt quite threatened by her. Considering the circumstances as they are now, perhaps she should have been.

As for the pickle, she hasn't been out of the aforementioned long-term relationship for very long (around two months). Her relationship ended in a slow burn and she had been discussing an impending end for nearly a year. As a result, she's not exactly interested in entering another long-term relationship right now. Likewise, I'm not interested in entering into a long-term relationship with someone who probably hasn't quite gotten over the first one. Having said that, we've discussed the matter and we've concluded that we probably will progress from the friends-with-benefits scenario we find ourselves in right now to a relationship, as we are great together.

I mostly simply want to prevent what could be a great thing into turning into a rebound where we destroy both the potential of a relationship and the great friendship that we already had, and my question to you folks is how I might go about doing that. I suppose that's not a very clear question, but I'm not totally clear on what outcome is the most desirable to me, either.
 
Fuck sober friends. Oh well we made out. For about an hour. Walking home now. I feel both happy and sad. Will elaborate later.
 
DrBo42 said:
I feel like there's an obvious cue of when or what level of contact is appropriate. If the girl seems like she's into you, chances are touching her is okay.
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Meh... what most guys say are "go-ahead" cues from girls never turn out to be the case for me. I'm not sure if I screw up or if I genuinely have bad luck with girls, but I'm baffled when my friends go, "dude, she was doing x, why didn't you jump on that?!!" Girls coming up and flirting with me, giving me their number or saying "text me," girls dancing next to me (but never trying to interact), staring at me, etc; the list goes on. I can't remember the last time any of that has gotten anywhere.

Iono. :(
 
Fugu said:
Hello NeoGAF, I'm in a bit of a pickle and I'd like to see what you guys think. I don't know how seriously I'm going to take this advice as you're a bunch of strangers on the internet but you gentlemen seem to be doing all right so the advice would be well taken.

A few weeks ago I started sleeping with this girl who's been a good friend of mine for a few years now. There's a lot that I like about her, and I can certainly see myself dating her, although admittedly I hadn't thought much about it until the prospect of such a relationship had become realistic. In fact, for as long as I've known her, one of us or the other or both have been in a long-term relationship. Our friendship has always been somewhat irregular, however, as she's slept in my bed multiple times and we've gone on vacation together; my ex, in particular, felt quite threatened by her. Considering the circumstances as they are now, perhaps she should have been.

As for the pickle, she hasn't been out of the aforementioned long-term relationship for very long (around two months). Her relationship ended in a slow burn and she had been discussing an impending end for nearly a year. As a result, she's not exactly interested in entering another long-term relationship right now. Likewise, I'm not interested in entering into a long-term relationship with someone who probably hasn't quite gotten over the first one. Having said that, we've discussed the matter and we've concluded that we probably will progress from the friends-with-benefits scenario we find ourselves in right now to a relationship, as we are great together.

I mostly simply want to prevent what could be a great thing into turning into a rebound where we destroy both the potential of a relationship and the great friendship that we already had, and my question to you folks is how I might go about doing that. I suppose that's not a very clear question, but I'm not totally clear on what outcome is the most desirable to me, either.
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I would express to her what you just told us if you're as into her as you seem. Take it slow, have fun.

Etrian Oddity said:
Meh... what most guys say are "go-ahead" cues from girls never turn out to be the case for me. I'm not sure if I screw up or if I genuinely have bad luck with girls, but I'm baffled when my friends go, "dude, she was doing x, why didn't you jump on that?!!" Girls coming up and flirting with me, giving me their number or saying "text me," girls dancing next to me (but never trying to interact), staring at me, etc; the list goes on. I can't remember the last time any of that has gotten anywhere.

Iono. :(
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That's not a hurdle you're just going to get over randomly by reading a post on here. You have to actively do it until it becomes almost muscle memory. Don't be a douche that goes around feeling people up but if you feel she's responding positively to you, it's okay to be slightly physical. If a girl says text me, text her. If she's looking at you from across the room, go talk to her, remember to smile...buy her a drink if you're somewhere that serves alcohol.
 
NeOak said:
One way that you can try is creating a need on just one at a time. Be there for like 1 week or two and do a lot of stuff that she enjoys. Then suddenly stop and get busy on your stuff. If you did it correctly, she'll be confused and come looking for you.
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Sorry about being slow to responding this, I forgot about it once I went to bed last night. That actually sounds like good advice in general.

I have a girl in mind that I want to ask out next school year and I know we are sharing a class/live in the same dorm. I'm not specifically focusing on her now, but that is something to look forward to in the future. For now I'm stuck at home with only a few options as far as girls go. I'm probably just gonna spend the summer focusing on myself rather than looking for girls.
 
Etrian Oddity said:
It's to the point where I have tried the douchebag approach and when I'm about to close the deal, my genuine self will slip through and make some remark where the girl gasps, comments on how "sweet" the remark is, and I'm done.

It's a sorry world when you have to actively put every effort forward to avoid being a decent human beings to girls. :(

I'm fine with eye contact as long as it's not cold. If I make a 3-second approach, I can hold eye contact with the hottest of them.

Physical contact - I know about kino and I'm actually pretty good at applying it. But, there are two types of guys who make physical contact, and one is a guy who gets laid and the other is a creeper. I'm positive I'd be labeled by the vast majority of girls as a creeper, because I don't have the stereotypical "hot" appearance yet.

Bear in mind I go to a traditional "party school," and there is much immaturity here.
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Having a girl say you're sweet doesn't mean you're done. That's why I think the "don't be a nice guy" needs to be clarified. If a girl already admires you and sees you as confident (or, in my case, girls say they are a bit intimidated by me), then being nice will reveal a softer side that will make them feel comfortable around you.
 
Two things. I just bumped into the girl from Saturday downtown when I was eating ice cream with another girl (just friends). She was clearly very uncomfortable meeting me like that :S Sort of bumming me out a little bit but as my friend said, it could very well have been because she was there and because one of her friends were there too. Oh well, what are you gonna do?

Anyway, the same friend of mine started talking about my posture on the way home. Apparently it's really bad, as she had been discussing it with another girl friend of ours. Any ideas on fixing that? I have a small pdf book about it that I'm about to read. I've been aware of this all my life and I do hunch over when I relax. But I'm working on it at the gym every time as the instructors also mentioned it. Didn't realize my friends had noticed it though. She was quite confident in thinking it could very well explain my lack of success with women too xD I mean, it my posture comes up in conversation when I'm not around, it must be standing out a lot :(
 
A friend who I went out with briefly (who I've mentioned before), told me she's going out with someone now (quite a bit older than her).

I liked her in my 1st year of college, but nothing happened between us until the 2nd year of college. She was the one who initiated it, but the only side of it I actually liked was the physical side of things, and even then we didn't go beyond making out. There's been a part of me which has regretted "ending it", but I realised why I did when we met up at my friends birthday.

Obviously she said it to try and make me jealous, since even some of her friends didn't know. But honestly? I don't care.

I will say however, that it does make me look back at these 2 years and think "Where have I come since then?" which does upset me I must admit.

:/
 
Minamu said:
Two things. I just bumped into the girl from Saturday downtown when I was eating ice cream with another girl (just friends). She was clearly very uncomfortable meeting me like that :S Sort of bumming me out a little bit but as my friend said, it could very well have been because she was there and because one of her friends were there too. Oh well, what are you gonna do?

Anyway, the same friend of mine started talking about my posture on the way home. Apparently it's really bad, as she had been discussing it with another girl friend of ours. Any ideas on fixing that? I have a small pdf book about it that I'm about to read. I've been aware of this all my life and I do hunch over when I relax. But I'm working on it at the gym every time as the instructors also mentioned it. Didn't realize my friends had noticed it though. She was quite confident in thinking it could very well explain my lack of success with women too xD I mean, it my posture comes up in conversation when I'm not around, it must be standing out a lot :(
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Check out the program in the Fitness thread.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=475941&highlight=fitness

Squats and deadlifts will do wonders for your posture if you make sure your form is correct. If you want to be sure, pick up Rippetoe's Starting Strength.

A friend of mine that is a girl told me when my posture is good, it increases my attractiveness about 2 points on the 1-10 scale. Another girl that was flirting with me said I was "regal" and she felt like she should call me "Sir Ian".
 
ianp622 said:
Check out the program in the Fitness thread.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=475941&highlight=fitness

Squats and deadlifts will do wonders for your posture if you make sure your form is correct. If you want to be sure, pick up Rippetoe's Starting Strength.

A friend of mine that is a girl told me when my posture is good, it increases my attractiveness about 2 points on the 1-10 scale. Another girl that was flirting with me said I was "regal" and she felt like she should call me "Sir Ian".
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Nice, I will check it out later :D I need to step up my gymming. Gonna prepare during the summer for a new program at a new gym with a friend of mine. I kinda doubt my problems with the ladies are due to back issues. I never think about them (which is why it's so hard to correct it xD). And as always, it's only a problem if you think it is :)
 
So, I love GAF and didn't want my first post to go like this but I'm going crazy so here goes nothing.

I've got it bad for this girl I work with. She's gorgeous, super smart, funny, etc. We've known each other for a year now but in the past couple months we've really started talking and getting to know one another. We mildly flirt at work and we text back and forth when we're not. I thought at one point maybe she was interested in me. She gently hit my leg after she made a joke at a meeting. A few times we stayed after everyone went home and talked for like two or three hours. She also invited me to a concert. She only invited me as a back-up date and I think she chose me because I'm a big fan of the band. But still! There's been other stuff, but for the sake of brevity I'll leave it at that for now.

You're probably thinking "All that sounds awesome - go for it, duh!" And I would love to, but! She has a boyfriend. Apparently it's a long distance relationship thing - he lives a few hours away. He just recently moved so I don't know if they're staying together (it kinda sounds like they are, but I didn't want to pry). But I still can't figure out if she's only interested in me as a friend or if she's secretly hoping I'll ask her out.

I'm so confused. Usually if I'm attracted to a girl and she has a boyfriend I don't think twice about her. But I can't stop thinking (obsessing?) about her. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
 
Bal said:
So, I love GAF and didn't want my first post to go like this but I'm going crazy so here goes nothing.

I've got it bad for this girl I work with. She's gorgeous, super smart, funny, etc. We've known each other for a year now but in the past couple months we've really started talking and getting to know one another. We mildly flirt at work and we text back and forth when we're not. I thought at one point maybe she was interested in me. She gently hit my leg after she made a joke at a meeting. A few times we stayed after everyone went home and talked for like two or three hours. She also invited me to a concert. She only invited me as a back-up date and I think she chose me because I'm a big fan of the band. But still! There's been other stuff, but for the sake of brevity I'll leave it at that for now.

You're probably thinking "All that sounds awesome - go for it, duh!" And I would love to, but! She has a boyfriend. Apparently it's a long distance relationship thing - he lives a few hours away. He just recently moved so I don't know if they're staying together (it kinda sounds like they are, but I didn't want to pry). But I still can't figure out if she's only interested in me as a friend or if she's secretly hoping I'll ask her out.

I'm so confused. Usually if I'm attracted to a girl and she has a boyfriend I don't think twice about her. But I can't stop thinking (obsessing?) about her. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
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Nothing to be confused about, she's off limits. The best case scenario for you is she breaks up with her boyfriend for you but that would set an unfair pressure on any kind of relationship you would form with her. So move on, keep in touch with her if you can do it without being obsessed over her. But as of right now, she's a no go. Move on.

And for the record, I know the feeling. I'm crazy over a coworker from my previous job. We get along incredibly, laughs at my offbeat humor, and we could talk for hours. I get the feeling she's digging my vibe but I would never do anything past flirting because she has a boyfriend. It sucks but you have to shrug it off.
 
Bal said:
So, I love GAF and didn't want my first post to go like this but I'm going crazy so here goes nothing.

I've got it bad for this girl I work with. She's gorgeous, super smart, funny, etc. We've known each other for a year now but in the past couple months we've really started talking and getting to know one another. We mildly flirt at work and we text back and forth when we're not. I thought at one point maybe she was interested in me. She gently hit my leg after she made a joke at a meeting. A few times we stayed after everyone went home and talked for like two or three hours. She also invited me to a concert. She only invited me as a back-up date and I think she chose me because I'm a big fan of the band. But still! There's been other stuff, but for the sake of brevity I'll leave it at that for now.

You're probably thinking "All that sounds awesome - go for it, duh!" And I would love to, but! She has a boyfriend. Apparently it's a long distance relationship thing - he lives a few hours away. He just recently moved so I don't know if they're staying together (it kinda sounds like they are, but I didn't want to pry). But I still can't figure out if she's only interested in me as a friend or if she's secretly hoping I'll ask her out.

I'm so confused. Usually if I'm attracted to a girl and she has a boyfriend I don't think twice about her. But I can't stop thinking (obsessing?) about her. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
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You can't stop thinking about her because she's in front of you all the time. I'd say no strictly because you work together (and that can get weird), but she also has a boyfriend, and hasn't made a move yet.

Potential friend zone thing here. Best you should hope to do is hang out and ideally meet a few hot friends of hers.
 
Bal said:
So, I love GAF and didn't want my first post to go like this but I'm going crazy so here goes nothing.

I've got it bad for this girl I work with. She's gorgeous, super smart, funny, etc. We've known each other for a year now but in the past couple months we've really started talking and getting to know one another. We mildly flirt at work and we text back and forth when we're not. I thought at one point maybe she was interested in me. She gently hit my leg after she made a joke at a meeting. A few times we stayed after everyone went home and talked for like two or three hours. She also invited me to a concert. She only invited me as a back-up date and I think she chose me because I'm a big fan of the band. But still! There's been other stuff, but for the sake of brevity I'll leave it at that for now.

You're probably thinking "All that sounds awesome - go for it, duh!" And I would love to, but! She has a boyfriend. Apparently it's a long distance relationship thing - he lives a few hours away. He just recently moved so I don't know if they're staying together (it kinda sounds like they are, but I didn't want to pry). But I still can't figure out if she's only interested in me as a friend or if she's secretly hoping I'll ask her out.

I'm so confused. Usually if I'm attracted to a girl and she has a boyfriend I don't think twice about her. But I can't stop thinking (obsessing?) about her. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
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As someone who has been in the exact same spot. Don't dwell on it, she probably sees you as a friend and good company at work, if you're ok with that fine, but don't go thinking what if, what if.
She has a boyfriend, she's offlimit.
 
Bal said:
So, I love GAF and didn't want my first post to go like this but I'm going crazy so here goes nothing.

I've got it bad for this girl I work with. She's gorgeous, super smart, funny, etc. We've known each other for a year now but in the past couple months we've really started talking and getting to know one another. We mildly flirt at work and we text back and forth when we're not. I thought at one point maybe she was interested in me. She gently hit my leg after she made a joke at a meeting. A few times we stayed after everyone went home and talked for like two or three hours. She also invited me to a concert. She only invited me as a back-up date and I think she chose me because I'm a big fan of the band. But still! There's been other stuff, but for the sake of brevity I'll leave it at that for now.

You're probably thinking "All that sounds awesome - go for it, duh!" And I would love to, but! She has a boyfriend. Apparently it's a long distance relationship thing - he lives a few hours away. He just recently moved so I don't know if they're staying together (it kinda sounds like they are, but I didn't want to pry). But I still can't figure out if she's only interested in me as a friend or if she's secretly hoping I'll ask her out.

I'm so confused. Usually if I'm attracted to a girl and she has a boyfriend I don't think twice about her. But I can't stop thinking (obsessing?) about her. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
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You're in the friend zone. Move on.
 
ianp622 said:
Having a girl say you're sweet doesn't mean you're done. That's why I think the "don't be a nice guy" needs to be clarified. If a girl already admires you and sees you as confident (or, in my case, girls say they are a bit intimidated by me), then being nice will reveal a softer side that will make them feel comfortable around you.
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That's happened before; the only snag is there's no attraction. And I have had far more occasions where a girl will grow cold when she finds out I'm not a hardass than vice-versa. :\
 
bjb said:
I'm actually in a similar situation. I suppose the difference being neither one of us have dated since the breakup. Keyword being dated (she did sleep with someone). If you had asked me a week ago - I would have been all about getting back together. In time though, I've come to realize that it was hard enough getting over her in the first place. I think it's in my own best interest not to open up that box again. Especially if things were go go astray once more.
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Yeah, that'd be the thing I'd worry about the most. Getting over her was the hardest thing I ever had to do (I'm still not over her), and I'd rather not have to do it again.

At the same time, our relationship gave me the best months of my life and I'd jump at the chance to try and pickup where we left off. I guess I'll just figure it out if/when we start talking again.

JokerOfSpades said:
Never date a coworker, friends.
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I'm dating two right now, lolz.

More seriously, I think it depends on your workplace. I've dated my fair share of coworkers in my life and with the exception of one it's never caused me any problems. It can be done.
 
Being a male on a dating site is utterly pointless. Its like standing in a suspects line at a police station, and a girl comes in, picks who she wants and that's it. But you're lined up with about 10,000 other guys, not 5. Useless and demoralising. Great if you're a girl, take your pick, but as a guy its just not worth bothering. Waste of time signing up.
 
Bucket-o-roadkill said:
Being a male on a dating site is utterly pointless. Its like standing in a suspects line at a police station, and a girl comes in, picks who she wants and that's it. But you're lined up with about 10,000 other guys, not 5. Useless and demoralising. Great if you're a girl, take your pick, but as a guy its just not worth bothering. Waste of time signing up.
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Oh man, was just thinking this.

I've often been complimented on my looks/handsomeness, and I myself thought I was a pretty decent looking guy, but man has trying online dating made me feel like i'm at the bottom of the barrel. Sending nice messages to several women and only getting a profile view in response just feels terrible.The women I was able to get a response from would just give out short replies and show absolutely no interest whatsoever.

Some people have been successful, and I'm happy that they were able to find someone on OKcupid or whatever, but online dating hasn't been kind to me at all.
 
The girl I was having a great conversation with finally got back to me. Actually, I jumped the gun and sent two messages in a row, whoops. She seemed to apologize for not being able to get back to me, saying she's really busy lately. Then I got another long message. Feels good.

I started going to the gym too. I'm going to try to go every day for a couple of weeks if I can. I'm out of shape, but it does feel good after a nice amount of exercise. I think this will help me feel better about myself, even if I'm not able to pull off making my body look ideal.
 
Bucket-o-roadkill said:
Being a male on a dating site is utterly pointless. Its like standing in a suspects line at a police station, and a girl comes in, picks who she wants and that's it. But you're lined up with about 10,000 other guys, not 5. Useless and demoralising. Great if you're a girl, take your pick, but as a guy its just not worth bothering. Waste of time signing up.
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How long have you been at it? I and others have had success with it, so it's not "utterly pointless". Maybe you're in a bad area or your profile or messages aren't great? You can't dismiss it wholesale for everyone that might want to try it.
 
Bucket-o-roadkill said:
Being a male on a dating site is utterly pointless. Its like standing in a suspects line at a police station, and a girl comes in, picks who she wants and that's it. But you're lined up with about 10,000 other guys, not 5. Useless and demoralising. Great if you're a girl, take your pick, but as a guy its just not worth bothering. Waste of time signing up.
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That's how I felt at first but now I'm able to get actual thought out responses a good proportion of the time.
 
Bucket-o-roadkill said:
Being a male on a dating site is utterly pointless. Its like standing in a suspects line at a police station, and a girl comes in, picks who she wants and that's it. But you're lined up with about 10,000 other guys, not 5. Useless and demoralising. Great if you're a girl, take your pick, but as a guy its just not worth bothering. Waste of time signing up.
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I was on a dating site for around five months with no success. Then out of the blue a girl messaged me, and now, a year and a half later, we live together.

Don't rely solely on dating sites, but don't give up either. They are useful, and they do work even for normal dudes like me. Just gotta be patient.
 
Aesius said:
I was on a dating site for around five months with no success. Then out of the blue a girl messaged me, and now, a year and a half later, we live together.

Don't rely solely on dating sites, but don't give up either. They are useful, and they do work even for normal dudes like me. Just gotta be patient.
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.

Worked for me too.
 
Slycoopr said:
Oh man, was just thinking this.

I've often been complimented on my looks/handsomeness, and I myself thought I was a pretty decent looking guy, but man has trying online dating made me feel like i'm at the bottom of the barrel. Sending nice messages to several women and only getting a profile view in response just feels terrible.The women I was able to get a response from would just give out short replies and show absolutely no interest whatsoever.

Some people have been successful, and I'm happy that they were able to find someone on OKcupid or whatever, but online dating hasn't been kind to me at all.
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I had a pretty decent attractiveness rating on OKCupid when I tried it, but maybe 20% of the women I'd message would view my profile, 20% of those would respond, and 20% of those would respond in a way that was actually conducive to having a damned conversation or progress toward a meetup.

Compare that to just, y'know, going outside and starting a conversation with someone almost anywhere, where just about everyone is receptive to some degree, and being "reasonably handsome" is rarely not good enough, and where beautiful women aren't already hounded by 500 pleading sex offers a day in between you attempting to talk to them, so being confident and interesting is usually more than enough to get the ball rolling.

Online dating loses that comparison pretty hard ;b
 
Phthisis said:
Not great categorical advice. It can work if it's the right kind of people involved. Rare but doable.
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It works wonders for us. If it doesn't for you or anyone else, it's because they say things like you just did. It's rare because you believe it is.

Edit: I got called the "new club king" by some friends I usually don't party with tonight xD They seemed really surprised to see me in this way. We had a blast, as usual. I also hung out with the friends of the Saturday girl so I think things are loking pretty solid. They greeted me with lots of smiles and open arms so she must've talked about me in a very positive way even though she seemed so disinterested earlier today downtown.
 
EviLore said:
I had a pretty decent attractiveness rating on OKCupid when I tried it, but maybe 20% of the women I'd message would view my profile, 20% of those would respond, and 20% of those would respond in a way that was actually conducive to having a damned conversation or progress toward a meetup.

Compare that to just, y'know, going outside and starting a conversation with someone almost anywhere, where just about everyone is receptive to some degree, and being "reasonably handsome" is rarely not good enough, and where beautiful women aren't already hounded by 500 pleading sex offers a day in between you attempting to talk to them, so being confident and interesting is usually more than enough to get the ball rolling.

Online dating loses that comparison pretty hard ;b
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As always, poppa knows best.

Approaching girls in meatspace >>>>>> online dating
 
What I like about online dating is that I'm seeing girls not from my area that I probably wouldn't be as likely to randomly run into. I've gotten super lucky that I'm having a conversation with one girl who I found fascinating. I somehow have a pretty good rate of getting responses to my messages (it's still really low, but seems a little higher than most, haha), and have had a handful of girls message me, of which a few were interesting and I wanted to talk with.

Maybe it's the type of girls that I'm matched highly with that is the reason? I don't know. It's still not the best way of doing things, but it's certainly interesting and I'm not super bummed out being on it, even though it has gotten my spirit down a few times this past month.
 
If I meet someone online and then talk on the phone a few times before actually meeting I'm much more relaxed and feel like I kind of know the person.

I don't have the confidence to just approach someone while I'm out and about. Maybe if I noticed them and they noticed me but that doesn't seem to happen much.

Plus I get told I have a nice voice a lot so that helps.
 
Az987 said:
If I meet someone online and then talk on the phone a few times before actually meeting I'm much more relaxed and feel like I kind of know the person.

I don't have the confidence to just approach someone while I'm out and about. Maybe if I noticed them and they noticed me but that doesn't seem to happen much.

Plus I get told I have a nice voice a lot so that helps.
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Yeah, I have to have some sort of anchor, socially.

I'm really good at making new inside jokes with a person within a matter of minutes if I know them a little bit already, but going from a cold meeting to that is virtually impossible and leads to a LOT of awkward silences, peppered with inane small talk.

Alcohol and a good friend helps, as I can use them as a sort of springboard to bring the new person in and start tethering connections.
 
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I've given up on dating
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