Blackace
if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
lol? Ok.. Congrats?
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Being white is a privilege, says this PSA.
- Thread starter ChiTownBuffalo
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lol? Ok.. Congrats?
Read your entire post and yes you tried to down play it. We know that privilege exists throughout the world but we are talking about the united states and not that.
Point is that you should work to transcend your race, stereotype and the rest of your physical appearance and totally forget about the races and just be you.
People will still be racist but I don't care and know they're limiting themselves instead of me by not treating me as an equal human being. It's them missing out on that hard working employee or awesome friend, not me.
I don't think you understand much about the nature of systemic racism. If you did, you wouldn't consider using the "pull yourself up by the bootstraps" argument. You should really take the time to read the two books Mumei suggested earlier. They're really eye opening.
Blackace
if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
I never said otherwise... But to pretend that you are working on an equal slate is not something I can do... Because we have to work hard to transcend..
soul creator
Member
You can simultaneously "work to transcend your race" while also pointing out that the fact that you have to do that is a perfect example of how privilege plays itself out in society.
poppabk
Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
The PSA doesn't really cover any of that nuance though. I guess I just have an issue with the use of the word 'privelidge' in this context, a 30 second TV spot. I don't disagree with what the PSA is trying to get across, that life is more difficult for minorities and that they face problems that generally just don't exist for most white people, I just think that this is a very poor way of doing it and is just as likely to reinforce racial divides rather than break them down.
Vermillion
Banned
Being blind to race only helps those who are already privileged.
Roger Danish
Member
Well that's good, because the ad didn't once use the word "privelidge." Probably because that's not a fucking word.
Sorry for the snark, but you ignored my previous (serious) responses to you, so I'm not even going to bother wasting my time.
Alligatorjandro
Banned
All people of color have had problems in america.
The wast difference here being that your ancestor very unlikely arrived on a slave ship to Europe and very very unlikely were not given civil rights until about 50 years ago. Quite frankly most likely you have arrived in the past 30 years and have enjoyed a solid foundation of welfare benefits and services that have been out of reach for Americans that have assured a certain quality of life level that is likely to be above the average African american.
Therefore I think the 4000+ year headstart thing is pretty fucking dumb
EDIT: Probably should add that I don't think life for minorities in Europe are all roses and well aware of white privilege existing here as well but there simply are more means given to minorities here for upward social mobility.
Amazing how the European vs. American racism argument sneaks into every thread.
Well, people are still a little resentful of the violent coup d'état, maybe. I'm interested in hearing more about this -- I lived in Hawaii til I was 18 and have heard this before from people, but frankly I always assumed that being treated equally was too much for them to handle.
Well, people are still a little resentful of the violent coup d'état, maybe. I'm interested in hearing more about this -- I lived in Hawaii til I was 18 and have heard this before from people, but frankly I always assumed that being treated equally was too much for them to handle.
I'm only about 4 minutes in and so far it's cringe worthy. He's done his absolute best so far to make sure the audience knows he's inferior yet has a position to speak because of his skin color.
He may go on to give good facts and arguments from here, but his lead up is ridiculous.
7 minutes in now and it's getting worse.
ChiTownBuffalo
Either I made up lies about the Boston Bomber or I fell for someone else's crap. Either way, I have absolutely no credibility and you should never pay any attention to anything I say, no matter what the context. Perm me if I claim to be an insider
Hawaii is the outlier in the American experience. But, I have also heard from white pople who moved from Hawaii, how much better it is on the mainland for them as well.
I would hope that going through an experience like that would make you more empathetic. But, it often doesn't, and I don't blame them.
This is the first (and somewhat counter-intuitive) lesson I needed to learn, and I can tell from this topic that I am not the only one. This is why I recommended those two books; one of them explained the rhetoric behind the insistence on "color-blindness" - which perversely positions the person who notices racism and points it out as the truly racist person - and made it seem a part of a cohesive whole. I had noticed the individual planks, but I had not thought of it as a collective pool of rhetoric that (especially) white people use to justify and explain unequal racial outcomes using non-racial explanations. The other book explains one of the most concrete ways in which black people are oppressed in American society - the drug war and its selective enforcement - and ties in really quite well with the previous book.
Though I do think I need to learn more about the issues faced by non-black racial minorities in the United States; I'm a bit narrowly focused in what I feel any comfort talking about right now.
theignoramus
Member
all I hear are alot of awkward truths sure to collide with some people's worldview.
Jackben
bitch I'm taking calls.
This is the exact kind of person this ad was made for. I didn't think GAF would have someone this ignorant but I'm constantly surprised.
That depends on how white you look. Based on your avatar, probably pretty high. I would assume you're european on sight (although filters you put on the picture interfere with that)
Jackben
bitch I'm taking calls.
I've been reading more about this lately and I think there is a lot to it I didn't originally address. The PSA might make me feel irritated or angry, but there is truth to what they are saying that can't be denied.
One way to look at it is as a tier:
>White privilege
--> How everyone should be treated in an equal and balanced society
---> How minorities are treated.
So not only are minorties often not even treated in a humane equal way, but also white people enjoy powers and privileges that are above what any normal person should be allowed to have, such as ignoring the culture and opinions of others or feeling like they can subjugate or feel comfortable in not giving voice to people outside of their race.
Basically everyone has work to do in bringing basic rights and equality to minorities AND in eliminating unfair privileges and attitudes that NO RACE should have, but Whites currently have. The second part was a new concept that took a while for me to realize and let it sink in. Perhaps PSA's like this are trying to bring that idea to more people, which is a goal I can get behind.
One way to look at it is as a tier:
>White privilege
--> How everyone should be treated in an equal and balanced society
---> How minorities are treated.
So not only are minorties often not even treated in a humane equal way, but also white people enjoy powers and privileges that are above what any normal person should be allowed to have, such as ignoring the culture and opinions of others or feeling like they can subjugate or feel comfortable in not giving voice to people outside of their race.
Basically everyone has work to do in bringing basic rights and equality to minorities AND in eliminating unfair privileges and attitudes that NO RACE should have, but Whites currently have. The second part was a new concept that took a while for me to realize and let it sink in. Perhaps PSA's like this are trying to bring that idea to more people, which is a goal I can get behind.
chronos4590
Member
He's an example where white people have it easier than people of color, and the way people of color are treated wrongfully.
I have an older sibling who works at a extremely high end retail store[cheapest item is probably a $300 shirt] She's the only black woman that works at that store. No problem with any of the other workers, ok fine, that's all good. They treat her well and they are good friends.
However, one way too many occasions she tells me or I'd go and see this happen. She would approach a white family [almost all customers and people who live in that area is white unless they are famous]. Greets them with a warm welcome tells them they have new stuff in season. What do they do? They look at her dead in the face, don't say a word and then walks to another wall. Her coworkers witness this and one of them tries to see what was up with them. SO one worker[white] goes up to that same family, ask the same question. And what happens to her? She's talked back to with open arms and the customers let her show her new products. So now my sibling lost a customer to put in her client book, sales and commission because of the way she was treated.
And a similar time she did the same thing and was told by the customer to " Stop Bothering her" And when a white sales associate came to her, all was well. And when the sale was finished and her white coworker needed help by that same customer, the customer had the nerve to say to her "Now you can bother me". So Yeah >_>. This is just one example in the work force and this is a more direct type of inequality rather than the way the institutionalized way of racism in society has treated us[ in this example her]
I have an older sibling who works at a extremely high end retail store[cheapest item is probably a $300 shirt] She's the only black woman that works at that store. No problem with any of the other workers, ok fine, that's all good. They treat her well and they are good friends.
However, one way too many occasions she tells me or I'd go and see this happen. She would approach a white family [almost all customers and people who live in that area is white unless they are famous]. Greets them with a warm welcome tells them they have new stuff in season. What do they do? They look at her dead in the face, don't say a word and then walks to another wall. Her coworkers witness this and one of them tries to see what was up with them. SO one worker[white] goes up to that same family, ask the same question. And what happens to her? She's talked back to with open arms and the customers let her show her new products. So now my sibling lost a customer to put in her client book, sales and commission because of the way she was treated.
And a similar time she did the same thing and was told by the customer to " Stop Bothering her" And when a white sales associate came to her, all was well. And when the sale was finished and her white coworker needed help by that same customer, the customer had the nerve to say to her "Now you can bother me". So Yeah >_>. This is just one example in the work force and this is a more direct type of inequality rather than the way the institutionalized way of racism in society has treated us[ in this example her]
kame-sennin
Member
This is a great post. I think becoming aware of privilege is the most important thing. The more you learn about it, the more obvious it is when it comes up in every day life. That gives one the opportunity to challenge inequality wherever you find it in your personal life.
This is often the line used to end racial debate, which as mentioned by others, only benefits the privileged. Sometimes being made aware of the truth is uncomfortable. But speaking openly about racism, even in a supposedly confrontational manor, always helps to raise awareness. If people choose to ignore the information they're given, it's not likely they were all that open to challenging racism in the first place.
What? He said that he, as a white man, knows less about racism against black people than black people know themselves. This is controversial? He also says that he gets better speaking engagements and commands more attention on this subject than black speakers. Why is this a surprise, or why should we suspect that he's wrong? Perhaps you will feel differently by the end of the video.
chronos4590
Member
When Applying to college, My high school guidance counselor[white] that i was assinged to "help me get into college" became notorious for playing "Favorites". My self along side plenty of other minority students had our transcripts sent extremely late because of him. And when we were trying to figure out where i could go, he was telling me i wouldn't get into schools. I called several of those applied schools about a month or 2 after he was supposed to and they told me they still didn't get a thing. I had to go to another guidance counselor that wasn't mine[She was black ] to send everything to the last few schools i was applying to as well as one of the schools i applied with him once again, and i had no hassle after that. Almost all the schools he told me i wasn't going to get in, I did get in, and it was the schools I didn't apply with him that I got in. I wasn't top of the class but i was very far from the bottom too. I can go back to my old graduating classmates or alum that had him as a guidance counselor and I can hear similar experiences that I had with him.
Devolution
Member
This is so incredibly naive.
Deified Data
Banned
Naive, perhaps...but is it still not admirable to seek to live outside of expectations?
Roger Danish
Member
Not when that exact same rhetoric is used by people who actively oppose any social, political, and economic reforms that could address the underlying racism.
Wazzim made it, and he's a minority! Whaddaya mean, affirmative action?! Just work harder, like he did!
CrazyDogg77
Member
I shouldn't have to live to get rid of expectations.
Deified Data
Banned
Just because it's used as an excuse by bootstrappers doesn't make it any less legitimate a way of life. Just about anything could be used as empty rhetoric in the wrong hands.
Other equally valuable concepts are currently being abused by the right for political gain. Hard work. Personal responsibility. These concepts are no less important for being a teabagger's talking points memo. They shouldn't be rejected out-of-hand.
Karsticles
Member
Your high school guidance counselor sent your application in for you? Is that normal?
ChiTownBuffalo
Either I made up lies about the Boston Bomber or I fell for someone else's crap. Either way, I have absolutely no credibility and you should never pay any attention to anything I say, no matter what the context. Perm me if I claim to be an insider
That doesn't seem normal at all.
No it isn't. The real modern demographical fight is the one between the classes.
It doesn't matter from what race you are, have the capital and you can dominate.
I´m not that interested in racism and have other books to read which cover subjects I'm more interested in.
Devolution
Member
What do you think paying minorities less, making sure urban education sucks and generally making it harder to climb the socio-economic ladder do to minorities in America? Keeps capital out of their hands.
Steve Youngblood
Member
Do you think it behooves us to ignore possible impediments to acquiring said capital?
Deified Data
Banned
I don't believe there's a single person in this thread who doesn't believe in institutionalized racism - it seems to me that wazzim is just suggesting a method for coping with it. If I'm wrong I'll eat a shit sandwich.
chronos4590
Member
Whoops I meant just the Transcript of my High school Grades. Applications was indeed all me. Guess I should edit that
Funny how out of the top ten richest people in America, 100% of them are straight cisgender white people, and 80% are male. Here's a weird theory -- maybe rather than being a magical privilege source that dominates all other privilege, class is, statistically speaking, actually a combined result of the effects of multiple other sources of privilege. I wonder how you could verify that? If that theory were true, you'd expect minority groups, including people of color, GLBT, women, ad kyriarchum, to be disproportionately represented below the poverty line and in prison and underrepresented in higher-echelon business, politics, and professional careers.
Hmm.
Why are you posting with such apparent conviction in a thread about a topic you aren't actually interested in?
Hahaha, well if you know me from previous political/social threads you'd know that I'm not that kind of guy.
I don't think the person you think I am is the person I really am.
I'm politically active in a party which fights to eliminate the inequalities you described. Don't see me as one of those 'just pull up your bootstrap' guys.
No but make sure that those impediments don't take control of your life (some people get depressed, give up etc).
Devolution
Member
Then stop posting like one.
Steve Youngblood
Member
Not that there's not truth to that. However -- in regards to the outlook of society at large -- I would argue that it's never beneficial to pretend like we are in some post-racial world where opportunity is handed out equally.
I'm quite interested in the topic, just not enough to spent my time reading 2 whole books about it. I read a book about Malcolm X though, that kinda counts.
I don't post like one. You should rather start seeing that you should always tackle problems in this world with mixed approaches.
White privilege is important when discussing the socio-economic situation of minorities but it's all part of the big struggle between rich and poor which we all have to deal with. A poor trailer park kid will not see much of that white privilege at all.
Fair enough.
Devolution
Member
Again with the poor trailer park kid strawman. My grandmother grew up a dirt poor daughter of migrant farm workers who managed to understand discrimination just fine. This isn't about whether or not the poor white kid can grasp racial privilege and I think it's ironically insulting to assume that poor white people cannot recognize or empathize with unfair treatment, because they certainly can and do. Sometimes they can recognize it better than a middle class or rich person because they've been shit on unfairly for years. That's how it worked with my grandmother. She managed to identify all kinds of unfair treatment whether it be gender, race or sexuality because she lived through biased treatment as the daughter of poor farmers out of Stockton. She knew what it was like to be outcast, labeled and spat on because she wasn't of a higher class. She could empathize readily with what she had been told by minorities.
Just because a white person of lower means won't see "as much" privilege as a white person of a better economic class doesn't change the reality of the situation or the upward mobility advantage a white person will have over a minority in the same status just based on stereotyping, assumed interests and prejudice. My grandmother was eventually able to go to college and do lab work while minorities were relegated to "separate but equal" education.
People like to think we've come a long way but they are closing schools in urban environments so to say "it's only about class" when the cross section of minorities missing out on a well oiled education is extremely high is naive and quite the "boot strap" nonsense you proclaim not to be a part of. How can minorities reasonably gain capital if they can't even count on a decent education?
...But he will have a better chance at social mobility than a minority in the same position.
Let's not forget about the black woman that was arrested because she lied in order to get her child into a better school that happened to not be in the district she lived in.
I understand that there are rules about school jurisdictions/districts, but the message it's sending to a black person that wants a better education for their child is: "Stay in your shitty area, with the shitty school curriculum, and don't dare strive for anything better, or we will punish you for wanting a better life for your child, and try to give them a leg up. That is reserved for whites only."
At least, that what it seems like to me.
GungHo
Single-handedly caused Exxon-Mobil to sue FOX, start World War 3
This is not correct. I did reply to you:
To make it more clear, SE Asians are absolutely oppressed the way blacks and Hispanics are oppressed in parts of my city (Houston), partcularly poor ones in poor neighborhoods. And, it's not just the ones that dress "gangster" (though that doesn't help). Vietnamese, Cambodian, Laotian, and Burmese refugees and/or the children of those refugees who have been unable to get out of being poor have pretty hard lives all over the South.
Deified Data
Banned
As opposed to a minority born into great wealth. Individuals existing outside of demographics, and whatnot.
Who, exactly, do you think is suggesting that individuals don't exist outside of demographics?
Steve Youngblood
Member
Well, there's also a point that every phenomenon doesn't have to be universally applicable for it to be worthy of being recognized as a problem that deserves attention. Yes, there are going to be any number of exceptions. However, are you suggesting that there isn't an inequality, or that -- generally speaking -- it's advantageous to be white?
Deified Data
Banned
Read the thread. A metric shit-ton of people. It's weird, and such behavior only seems to spring out in threads like these.
Nope. I'm quite aware that institutionalized racism is a powerful force in society. I just don't believe that it is absolute in who it effects, and how.
Heh don't see why you pointed that out. What I was discussing was never about people of different economic classes. It was about people of the same economic class that are different in skin color.
Jackben
bitch I'm taking calls.
It also brings out white people thinking they've never experienced white privilege.
Steve Youngblood
Member
Who is arguing that it's absolute?
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