Support NeoGAF

[Deified Data]

Heh don't see why you pointed that out. What I was discussing was never about people of different economic classes. It was about people of the same economic class that are different in skin color.

Indeed. Among individuals in the same economic bracket, those belonging to the majority ethnicity will have the advantage, an overwhelming majority of the time. No need to assume we've got anything to argue about.

Who is arguing that it's absolute?

Those who say whites in American society inherently take advantage of white privilege argue an absolutist viewpoint.

 

[pigeon]

Read the thread. A metric shit-ton of people. It's weird, and such behavior only seems to spring out in threads like these.

Completely absurd. Nobody in the thread is suggesting that, mainly because it would be idiotic. But the fact that you might be in the bottom standard deviation of your particular demographic combination doesn't mean that white privilege is a figment or that you don't possess it. Holding all other factors equal, you'll still be significantly better off than if you were a person of color, in a variety of ways.

 

[Deified Data]

Completely absurd. Nobody in the thread is suggesting that, mainly because it would be idiotic. But the fact that you might be in the bottom standard deviation of your particular demographic combination doesn't mean that white privilege is a figment or that you don't possess it. Holding all other factors equal, you'll still be significantly better off than if you were a person of color, in a variety of ways.

Name them, so that we might have a better understanding of one another's argument.

 

[pigeon]

Name them, so that we might have a better understanding of one another's argument.

Read the thread? They've been mentioned countless times.

 

[Jackben]

Those who say whites in American society inherently take advantage of white privilege argue an absolutist viewpoint.

You still don't get it. White Americans inheriently have privilege and benefit from it whether they are aware of it or acknowledge it.

It isn't an absolutist viewpoint. You have the privilege, period.

Whether you use it to further better your position, wealth or station in life is another matter entirely. You benefit from it regardless of whether you can track it to increased figures or not.

 

[Deified Data]

Read the thread? They've been mentioned countless times.

I've rebuffed those alleged advantages I've enjoyed in previous posts myself, so I could also leave you with a "read the thread" in place of a substantial argument. But I won't patronize you like that. Instead, I'll take my dissenting opinion that's not entirely dissenting and leave you to a largely homogenized debate.

You still don't get it. White Americans inheriently have privilege and benefit from it whether they are aware of it or acknowledge it.

There is no absolutist viewpoint. You have the privilege, period.

Whether you are able to take advantange of it or use it to better your position, wealth or station in life is another matter entirely.

Definitely, that's the crux. I'm white, and in belonging to the majority race I hold advantage. My point was that, given my career, goals, personality, and overall way of life, being white hasn't given me any true leg up. But it doesn't matter. I'll leave you be.

 

[Jackben]

I should have qualified.

You already have a leg up. You don't need to use it to get another. You're already up to begin with.

Frustrating.

 

[pigeon]

I've rebuffed those alleged advantages I've enjoyed in previous posts myself, so I could also leave you with a "read the thread" in place of a substantial argument. But I won't patronize you like that.

Read the thread. A metric shit-ton of people. It's weird, and such behavior only seems to spring out in threads like these.

You already did! Like six posts ago! I know it was on the last page, but come on now.

Instead, I'll take my dissenting opinion that's not entirely dissenting and leave you to a largely homogenized debate.

I've no desire for my mild beliefs to paint me as a straw-man just because all the dissenters have been shouted down or left. It's not something I want to argue, even if I thought it were possible. I feel I've expressed myself sufficiently. That's all.

You did this too! I know racism threads tend to repeat themselves, but usually it's different posters.

 

[kame-sennin]

When Applying to college, My high school guidance counselor[white] that i was assinged to "help me get into college" became notorious for playing "Favorites". My self along side plenty of other minority students had our transcripts sent extremely late because of him. And when we were trying to figure out where i could go, he was telling me i wouldn't get into schools. I called several of those applied schools about a month or 2 after he was supposed to and they told me they still didn't get a thing. I had to go to another guidance counselor that wasn't mine[She was black ] to send everything to the last few schools i was applying to as well as one of the schools i applied with him once again, and i had no hassle after that. Almost all the schools he told me i wasn't going to get in, I did get in, and it was the schools I didn't apply with him that I got in. I wasn't top of the class but i was very far from the bottom too. I can go back to my old graduating classmates or alum that had him as a guidance counselor and I can hear similar experiences that I had with him.

Even though you're not in school anymore, you should report that guy for the sake of younger students. There is probably something that could be done.

No it isn't. The real modern demographical fight is the one between the classes.
It doesn't matter from what race you are, have the capital and you can dominate.

Nope.

Years of research about which most have no awareness — because it doesn’t make the news — tells us that the daily coping with racialization, which people of color learn to do from an early age, but which whites rarely if ever experience, leaves scars. It contributes to the excess release of stress hormones in the black and brown body, causing something called allostatic load — a reference to the short-circuiting of the body’s natural defenses against anxiety-producing events and traumas. That allostatic load then corresponds to higher blood pressure, higher rates of heart disease, and early death. The research has found that even affluent black folks have higher markers for allostatic load than poor whites, despite the real stresses that the latter contend with each day.​

http://www.timwise.org/2012/01/flyi...rivilege-and-the-evidence-of-things-not-felt/

 

[Wazzim]

Nope.

Years of research about which most have no awareness — because it doesn’t make the news — tells us that the daily coping with racialization, which people of color learn to do from an early age, but which whites rarely if ever experience, leaves scars. It contributes to the excess release of stress hormones in the black and brown body, causing something called allostatic load — a reference to the short-circuiting of the body’s natural defenses against anxiety-producing events and traumas. That allostatic load then corresponds to higher blood pressure, higher rates of heart disease, and early death. The research has found that even affluent black folks have higher markers for allostatic load than poor whites, despite the real stresses that the latter contend with each day.​

http://www.timwise.org/2012/01/flyi...rivilege-and-the-evidence-of-things-not-felt/

That fact doesn't have anything to do with what I said.
It seems to be some kind psychological phenomenon that has nothing to do with the fact that people of color can dominate with capital.

 

[kame-sennin]

You already did! Like six posts ago! I know it was on the last page, but come on now.





You did this too! I know racism threads tend to repeat themselves, but usually it's different posters.

That fact doesn't have anything to do with what I said.
It seems to be some kind psychological phenomenon that has nothing to do with the fact that people of color can dominate with capital.

But it does refute the idea that the issue is entirely class based.

 

[Htown]

No it isn't. The real modern demographical fight is the one between the classes.
It doesn't matter from what race you are, have the capital and you can dominate.

Read this chart for two minutes and then come back and have a discussion about race and capital.

From the U.S. Census Bureau

 

[Roger Danish]

Read this chart for two minutes and then come back and have a discussion about race and capital.

But don't you see?? P Diddy bought his kid a Maybach! Race is irrelevant!!!!

That fact doesn't have anything to do with what I said.
It seems to be some kind psychological phenomenon that has nothing to do with the fact that people of color can dominate with capital.

What are you even saying here? Are you advocating for redistribution of capital equally among races? Or are you making an empirical statement about a hypothetical world that simply doesn't exist?

(in b4 bob johnson)

 

[Deified Data]

You already did! Like six posts ago! I know it was on the last page, but come on now.





You did this too! I know racism threads tend to repeat themselves, but usually it's different posters.

Yeah, I'm sure I'll be back in another few pages. What can I say.

 

[CrushDance]

Irony.

About 20 minutes ago this evening, I went for a walk. Sometimes I run, other times I simply walk. And I have been doing so for close to two years now as I've worked on my weight loss and tried to become more outgoing.

As I was coming home, I crossed the street and was just walking in shorts, a simplet t-shirt and running shoes. Listening to some music and taking in the nice atmosphere. Suddenly a car came down the street from behind and slowed down beside me. I took an earphone out and kept walking, wondering if the two people inside perhaps wanted to ask a question. But no. My entire day was shattered as the one on the passenger side leaned out and yelled with pure hate: "Nigger! Nigger!" The second time, much more vicious than the first.

Now a great deal of a depression I suffered with throughout my teenage years and up was due to a specific incident with a girl that I'd attempted to ask out. And was amusingly set upon by her and her friends. That she would never date a nigger. So! After years of self loathing, no confidence and crippling social anxiety as my friends started dating and poking fun at me for not. I somehow managed to start trying out of sheer loneliness. But those comments and looks never stop and continued, even up to today.

To the people claiming that they haven't gotten anything for being a majority. To being the ones catered too.You truly have no idea how crushing incidences like these can be. How utterly draining it is to be minding your own business one moment, and the next you're hyperventilating, sweat profusely and having vivid recollections of all the past instances where your very self was denied, suddenly at the front of every thought. If there could be any word used to describe it for me, it would be none less than that of rape. It goes beyond making fun of someone for being fat, short, tall, skinny, bulky...and goes straight the the core of their very existence.

I am a grown man that was constantly told throughout my childhood to "Ignore it" and "Let it go". But I'm sure everyone here, regardless of colour or sex; knows that letting things go of any sort is very difficult. Let alone "letting go" of being yourself. I am a grown man who suffers from panic attacks, severe social anxiety and yet still goes to work, shopping, outside; with a forced smile on. Pretending to be happy. With doctors suggesting all sorts of drugs to help me "cope" and be more calm. To take medication in order to get up every morning and go out into a world where you feel as if you don't belong.

I didn't even want to type this out. But I sincerely have nobody else to talk to. None of my "friends" could even understand. And quite honestly, continuing that walk home after that and passing the multitude of white faces, hearing the hum of car motors coming from behind as I went on. I was filled with a sudden and uncontrollable fear that maybe, just maybe; someone else wanted to say or do something to me too.

You have no idea what it feels like to suddenly feel that the place where you grew up has suddenly turned against you and that you are no longer safe, or even viewed as human. And you know what the truly sad part about this is? It isn't even something mental any-more. And hasn't been for as long as I can remember. Living your life in constant fear of having heart palpations and panic attacks for being what you are is not funny and is not right. When it gets to the point where someone's physical well-being is at risk and people are telling you to "get over it" or that you should "pull up your bootstraps". The first emotion that comes to my mind is pure unbridled hatred.

 

[Calcaneus]

Fucking sucks that this happened to you, man.

I can see why its so easy to lose patience in discussions like this, it is tiring that we still have to deal with stuff like this in 2012.

 

[Az987]

That's awful and I can't imagine what that feels like.

The closest thing I've ever felt to racism was when I dated a black woman and random guys would laugh and smart ass comments. I had a huge chip on my shoulder for a while and wanted to attack every single guy who did it and probably would have had she not been more level headed than me.

 

[Esch]

Now a great deal of a depression I suffered with throughout my teenage years and up was due to a specific incident with a girl that I'd attempted to ask out. And was amusingly set upon by her and her friends. That she would never date a nigger. So! After years of self loathing, no confidence and crippling social anxiety as my friends started dating and poking fun at me for not. I somehow managed to start trying out of sheer loneliness. But those comments and looks never stop and continued, even up to today.

I know that feel breh. this is the worst worst shit. it makes your soul burn slow. it sticks with you and influences every relationship you have in the future on some level. I think every minority in America has this or a similar moment at one point in their lives and its always tough...

*e hug*

 

[CrushDance]

I know that feel breh. this is the worst worst shit. it makes your soul burn slow. it sticks with you and influences every relationship you have in the future on some level. I think every minority in America has this or a similar moment at one point in their lives and its always tough...

*e hug*

I don't even "care" any-more to be honest. Every-time it happens it just literally hurts. But you get used to it in a way. I'm guaranteed one incident like this at-least every year. That's why I got into a huge fight with my dad one time and said a lot of things I shouldn't have because I was furious that he'd ever come to Canada and had children here. It sounds ridiculous saying that Canada of all places is horrible. But it's the experiences that makes us who we are, and there is no denying that the experiences overall between whites and minorities is very different.

My doctor suggested a therapist since I didn't want any medication. We talked for months and I really got comfortable with telling her all sorts of things. Then one day we broached the topic of relationships and I told her how that day had affected me. And she said "Well perhaps you should stick to your own kind than?". I know that she didn't mean it that way and she quickly apologized. But I never went back to her again after that. It's just a complete mess. I'm thinking about maybe leaving this country sometime in the future and going back "home" to a place I don't even know. I'm as Canadian as can be, but I'm not.

 

[Dram]

Is racism really a big problem in Canada?

 

[Bgamer90]

Is racism really a big problem in Canada?

I don't really know how Canada is as a whole but Toronto is amazing. So many people of different backgrounds and a lot of interracial dating/groups.

Big difference from Buffalo (the city I live in).

 

[IceCold]

Is racism really a big problem in Canada?

Sure it is, it's just less out there. People will teat you similarly and stuff but in the back of their mind they might harbor racist beliefs. Canadians, and Canada in general are also a lot less obsessed about race than the US.

 

[2San]

Alternatively stated: Straight white male is easy mode.

This reflects my thought on the subject as well.

That said, I haven't had too many problems being colored, but I'm South-Asian(and live in the Netherlands). The preconceptions that people have about us aren't too bad. The whole being a "Muslim" is a bigger disadvantage imo. While, I'm not a Muslim anymore(agnostic, while still somewhat believing there's a God), I still am pretty sympathetic towards other Muslims. The way they get talked about is terrible, but it's all "ok" because it's their own "choice." It was never a choice for me when I believed in Islam, a large part could be attributed to my parents. Is it really a choice, when you happen to truly believe in something?

 

[Dan Yo]

Sure it is, it's just less out there. People will teat you similarly and stuff but in the back of their mind they might harbor racist beliefs. Canadians, and Canada in general are also a lot less obsessed about race than the US.

I'd say it's worse. The black population is much smaller in Canada. A friend of mine from Vancouver visited LA for the first time a few months back and the first black person she saw she practically pointed out in front of everybody. I think she was afraid.

 

[theignoramus]

Irony.

About 20 minutes ago this evening, I went for a walk. Sometimes I run, other times I simply walk. And I have been doing so for close to two years now as I've worked on my weight loss and tried to become more outgoing.

As I was coming home, I crossed the street and was just walking in shorts, a simplet t-shirt and running shoes. Listening to some music and taking in the nice atmosphere. Suddenly a car came down the street from behind and slowed down beside me. I took an earphone out and kept walking, wondering if the two people inside perhaps wanted to ask a question. But no. My entire day was shattered as the one on the passenger side leaned out and yelled with pure hate: "Nigger! Nigger!" The second time, much more vicious than the first.

Now a great deal of a depression I suffered with throughout my teenage years and up was due to a specific incident with a girl that I'd attempted to ask out. And was amusingly set upon by her and her friends. That she would never date a nigger. So! After years of self loathing, no confidence and crippling social anxiety as my friends started dating and poking fun at me for not. I somehow managed to start trying out of sheer loneliness. But those comments and looks never stop and continued, even up to today.

To the people claiming that they haven't gotten anything for being a majority. To being the ones catered too.You truly have no idea how crushing incidences like these can be. How utterly draining it is to be minding your own business one moment, and the next you're hyperventilating, sweat profusely and having vivid recollections of all the past instances where your very self was denied, suddenly at the front of every thought. If there could be any word used to describe it for me, it would be none less than that of rape. It goes beyond making fun of someone for being fat, short, tall, skinny, bulky...and goes straight the the core of their very existence.

I am a grown man that was constantly told throughout my childhood to "Ignore it" and "Let it go". But I'm sure everyone here, regardless of colour or sex; knows that letting things go of any sort is very difficult. Let alone "letting go" of being yourself. I am a grown man who suffers from panic attacks, severe social anxiety and yet still goes to work, shopping, outside; with a forced smile on. Pretending to be happy. With doctors suggesting all sorts of drugs to help me "cope" and be more calm. To take medication in order to get up every morning and go out into a world where you feel as if you don't belong.

I didn't even want to type this out. But I sincerely have nobody else to talk to. None of my "friends" could even understand. And quite honestly, continuing that walk home after that and passing the multitude of white faces, hearing the hum of car motors coming from behind as I went on. I was filled with a sudden and uncontrollable fear that maybe, just maybe; someone else wanted to say or do something to me too.

You have no idea what it feels like to suddenly feel that the place where you grew up has suddenly turned against you and that you are no longer safe, or even viewed as human. And you know what the truly sad part about this is? It isn't even something mental any-more. And hasn't been for as long as I can remember. Living your life in constant fear of having heart palpations and panic attacks for being what you are is not funny and is not right. When it gets to the point where someone's physical well-being is at risk and people are telling you to "get over it" or that you should "pull up your bootstraps". The first emotion that comes to my mind is pure unbridled hatred.

damn, I've definitely been there. once I was told "go back to africa, nigger!" and the other couple times was just called "nigger". and almost every times it's been said by someone yelling it out their car door, which I find quite cowardly.

 

[Figboy79]

@ CrushDance and theignoramus, I know what that's like.

A few years back, I was driving from my mom's house back when she lived on Wilshire, and I had to make a left hand turn onto to Wilshire going east.

In order to do so, I had cross the path of the cars on Wilshire going west.

I made my turn finally, and then I hear (it's LA, so of course it's hot and my window was down), someone yell out of their car window, "NIGGER!"

I was furious, and tried to turn my car around, but what was the point? I had no idea who had yelled it, or why, so I just went on my way to work, with my day turned to shit.

I'm in an interracial marriage, and me and my wife get more than just our fair share of funny looks when we're walking down the street, holding hands, or with our arms around each other. When we go and visit her family in Iowa, it's often worse. I'm used to people staring at me, because, as I've mentioned before, I have vitiligo. But there is a difference in stares that you eventually pick up on the longer you go through life, and the longer you have to deal with people staring at you.

I don't look at my wife as "my white wife" (though we do tease each other about our races). When we are together, we are a couple like any other (albeit much, much dorkier, I'm sure). There's no crazy, "it's like I'm dating another species!" shit that some people seem to imply it must be like when you dare to get involved with someone of another race. It's a non-issue in our household.

But fuck, once we are out that door, the rest of the world appears to make it their duty to remind us that we are different. We've noticed it a lot with older white males, and sometimes black women.

It's this look of pure disgust/revulsion. For some reason, people still view a black man/white woman relationship as the ultimate taboo. No, fucking your parents or sibling is the ultimate taboo (as far as sex and relationships go), dating someone who is a different nationality as you is a non-issue. It doesn't even rate on the scale of taboos, as, we should know by now, we are all the same fucking species. She's not fucking a monkey (although I'm sure the gentlemen at stormfront would probably describe it that way...).

Other people in interracial relationships, I'm sure, know what this is like (one of my friends is a Jewish girl dating a Philipino guy, and her family constantly gives her shit about it, to the point where they were near breaking up; I'm fortunate, in that my family, and my wife's family love us to death).

It's absolutely frustrating. Almost as frustrating as the people that want to keep their hands in the sand about this sort of thing and assure us that this type of shit no longer goes on in "post-racial" America, and that it's just "all in our heads."

 

[Red_Ragnarok]

I don't really know how Canada is as a whole but Toronto is amazing. So many people of different backgrounds and a lot of interracial dating/groups.

Big difference from Buffalo (the city I live in).

Mmm, idk man, the city is diverse as a whole, but there is actually a lot of segregation, so the people you interact with daily will not be as diverse. Many of the neighbourhoods are completely dominated by certain ethnicities, and lots of people just hang out with others of the same nationality, often speaking in their own languages as well.

I don’t see things improving significantly for CrushDance if he were to move to Toronto.

For the racism problem, there’s still some racism in Toronto, it’s just that I’ve seen people of all ethnicities talking shit about other people of all ethnicities. Maybe he would feel better if he sees that he’s not the only target, and that the racists are a diverse group?

For the dating problem, that probably wouldn’t improve much either. Black girls are a small minority in most areas, and white girls are actually a minority in many areas too. Other girls I usually see are often speaking a different language, making them less approachable. Not to mention that many of the young people have parents who are pressuring them to marry within the same culture.

I still think there is no white privilege in places like Toronto because of the large amount of non-whites that have just as much influence. I don’t even think the English white people have privilege. Sure they’ve had a head start to establish themselves, but now it’s often better to be an immigrant because the immigrants stick together. Small businesses that are run by native English speaking Canadians hire everyone for example, but the small businesses run by Chinese, Indians, or some group of Eastern Europeans only hire their own (and there are lots of them too).

That’s why I thought the PSA is pointless. Ok, I can see that it’s better to be white in a place that’s 99% white, but the only way to remove any sort of racial privilege is to force a demographic change where people of different ethnicities are spread out equally. But this is impossible because people will always prefer to stick with others who are similar to them.

This reflects my thought on the subject as well.

That said, I haven't had too many problems being colored, but I'm South-Asian(and live in the Netherlands). The preconceptions that people have about us aren't too bad. The whole being a "Muslim" is a bigger disadvantage imo. While, I'm not a Muslim anymore(agnostic, while still somewhat believing there's a God), I still am pretty sympathetic towards other Muslims. The way they get talked about is terrible, but it's all "ok" because it's their own "choice." It was never a choice for me when I believed in Islam, a large part could be attributed to my parents. Is it really a choice, when you happen to truly believe in something?

Don’t want to derail the thread into a religion debate, but those raised in non-religious households didn’t have a choice either, and the way they get talked about in the holy books is even worse. IMO, the Muslims, Christians, and Jews have it good, it’s a miracle they can even practice their religions considering the hateful messages that can be found in their scriptures.

 

[cousins]

If you don’t think race matters, you’re an idiot. Race specific problems such as mortgage, health care, and employment discrimination not only exist, but have been proven to. Arguing that we should ignore shit like that, or arguing that race isn’t the issue here, and that class is, fails to address the problem. And, if you fail to address the situation, while simultaneously preaching that race doesn’t matter and that everyone is treated equally, then racism, and race based disparity will not only continue, but will almost seem logical to some as racial inequality in things such as socioeconomic position will still exist, long after race will have been seen to have mattered

 

[heliosRAzi]

Since this is a gaming forum...

If someone in an online game such as modern warfare 3 finds out you're black, expect to hear nigger a lot. Hell sometimes when they don't even know you're black. They'll just say nigger randomly.

 

[Schlep]

It's this look of pure disgust/revulsion. For some reason, people still view a black man/white woman relationship as the ultimate taboo.

Really good post, although I disagree here. I'd say white male/black female is the most taboo of all the interracial pairings.

Other people in interracial relationships, I'm sure, know what this is like (one of my friends is a Jewish girl dating a Philipino guy, and her family constantly gives her shit about it, to the point where they were near breaking up; I'm fortunate, in that my family, and my wife's family love us to death).

It's absolutely frustrating. Almost as frustrating as the people that want to keep their hands in the sand about this sort of thing and assure us that this type of shit no longer goes on in "post-racial" America, and that it's just "all in our heads."

lol, 100% agreed. As ridiculous as it sounds, Dallas and Fort Worth are actually pretty decent places to be in an interracial relationship. That said, my girlfriend tells me regularly that I don't seem like the type of white guy who would date a black girl, and I think it gets amplified when we're together because she's not light skinned, and I'm about as white as they come.

Lots of sideways looks from older white people, a couple started treating me in a way I haven't experienced in my life when I had to interact with them. We're constantly asked by hostesses at restaurants, "just two?" Some blatant staring, especially if we're holding hands/each other and other PDA's, some heads snapping around...lol. Leaving the theater the other night there was a group of ghetto black girls outside the bathroom, and when we walked by them to leave, "She with that white boy?!" I'm practically a lightning rod whenever we're out in public with her little brother (5yo), because he always wants to hold my hand. I don't really care about any of it unless it makes her uncomfortable. It's usually more funny than anything to me. I don't know how it will be when I take her to South Dakota (hometown), but I imagine it'll be like you said about Iowa.

For people who really don't understand subtle racism, I've got a good anecdote for you. My gf called an apartment complex and the guy who answered was very nice, and encouraged her to come out. We show up, and he does the bare minimum in the office with a very monotone sound. Shows us the apartment and just says, "here it is." When we get back to the office, he says he doesn't think anything is available anytime soon, he'll have to check and call her back.

Now you could say that maybe that's just the way he is. However, her cousin went to that same complex and talked with the same guy a couple days earlier, and said he was really nice and outgoing, and told her there were plenty of apartments available any time she wanted to rent.

 

[YoungHav]

where is that guy that said, "this is the internet... people are making things up!" ?

I haven't been called a nigger in two years. The last time I was walking home from the law library and a homeless British guy (this was in nyc) loudly whispered to his sidekick "go ask that nigger for some money", then she goes "exchange me sir, can you spare some change?". I just laughed. Only time I've ever been called a nigger in a British accent; it just sounds better.

 

[a Master Ninja]

You can get away with murder if you have a sweet British accent. Fucking British privilege, man.

Really good post, although I disagree here. I'd say white male/black female is the most taboo of all the interracial pairings.

I'd suggest you are both right. White male/black female is more taboo to blacks, and the black male/white female is more taboo to whites.

 

[Azih]

Mmm, idk man, the city is diverse as a whole, but there is actually a lot of segregation, so the people you interact with daily will not be as diverse. Many of the neighbourhoods are completely dominated by certain ethnicities, and lots of people just hang out with others of the same nationality, often speaking in their own languages as well.

I think there's a degree of being involved in one's own 'community' that isn't dangerous at all. I mean in the end if someone is comfortable in another language, or follow a sport that isn't a mainstream interest, or are involved in a community church, or watch movies/listen to music that isn't mainstream etc. then of course they'll hang out with others that do have those same interests. That goes for everything and not just culture of course. Wherever the line where this leads to a fractured divisive society is Toronto is far from it. The main thing is to be involved in whatever smaller group one is a part of (cricket fan, metal head, whatever else) *and* participate in larger society as well. That's the balance where you can be different and be integrated as well and while no place is perfect I think Toronto does this better than a whole hell of a lot of other places.

I don’t see things improving significantly for CrushDance if he were to move to Toronto.

I think seeing mixed race couples out and about does more to 'integrate' people than anything else:
http://www.torontolife.com/daily/in...onto-is-the-mixed-marriage-capital-of-canada/

it’s just that I’ve seen people of all ethnicities talking shit about other people of all ethnicities.

That's incredibly true and incredibly depressing to boot. I think the thing is that the majority ethnicity talking shit about others has more of a profound affect on society than the small ones. Kind of a with power comes responsibility kind of thing.

I still think there is no white privilege in places like Toronto because of the large amount of non-whites that have just as much influence. I don’t even think the English white people have privilege. Sure they’ve had a head start to establish themselves, but now it’s often better to be an immigrant because the immigrants stick together. Small businesses that are run by native English speaking Canadians hire everyone for example, but the small businesses run by Chinese, Indians, or some group of Eastern Europeans only hire their own (and there are lots of them too).

It's a matter of degree and unless we have Canada and/or GTA specific stats then we're all kinda talking out of our ass/relying on anecdotal evidence. I will say that immigrants are very underrepresented in politics and in corporate board rooms. But I think we do way better than the States (look at Mayor Nenshi in Calgary or Nadir Mohammed, CEO of Rogers).

 

[suzu]

But fuck, once we are out that door, the rest of the world appears to make it their duty to remind us that we are different.

Pretty much.

 

[Schlep]

I'd suggest you are both right. White male/black female is more taboo to blacks, and the black male/white female is more taboo to whites.

The statistics show that white male/black female is quite a bit more uncommon, which would make me think it's more taboo. Kind of hard to compare, I guess. Where I do feel bad for Figboy is that black women are far more vocal in disapproval of black men with white women. The only times black guys have ever said anything to me about it were more along the lines of, "damn, nice job."

 

[pigeon]

The statistics show that white male/black female is quite a bit more uncommon, which would make me think it's more taboo. Kind of hard to compare, I guess. Where I do feel bad for Figboy is that black women are far more vocal in disapproval of black men with white women. The only times black guys have ever said anything to me about it were more along the lines of, "damn, nice job."

You've put your finger on the distinction here. If, according to society, white women are precious jewels and black women are...less valued...then black man-white woman would be the most "taboo" but white man-black woman would still be less common, because people want precious jewels even if they're not "supposed" to have them. Hence the congratulations from other PoC men.

 

[Schlep]

You've put your finger on the distinction here. If, according to society, white women are precious jewels and black women are...less valued...then black man-white woman would be the most "taboo" but white man-black woman would still be less common, because people want precious jewels even if they're not "supposed" to have them. Hence the congratulations from other PoC men.

I think you misunderstood, I'm a white guy with a black girl, lol.

Anyway, I guess it doesn't really matter which one is more taboo in the end. Interracial couples, no matter who is what, are still going to have to deal with other people judging their relationships to one extent or another. It doesn't bother me, but it is interesting getting a small taste of how much racism is actually still out there.

 

[MorisUkunRasik]

While I was out I thought of another "privilege" that whites have.

You can sleep warm at night knowing you'll never have to explain to your kids what the assholes at school meant by "spic" or "nigger" or "chink" or any other racial slur. And not just the kids at school, but full grown adults. Sometimes adults with authority or respect.

It hadn't even crossed my mind until last night. Shit would suck to look my son or daughter in their face and try to explain that to them. Or even worse, having them not come to you and letting it fuck with their heads.

 

[scar tissue]

Not sure what white men are supposed to do about this?

What is the point of this, to instill guilt?


A white man living in poverty might feel that he ain't privileged.

Just because some of the richest and most privileged guys are white males doesn't mean that every straight white male has it easier than other groups.
In fact, as someone who has been struggling with depression and social anxiety for a long time, I find the idea that I am "playing life in easy mode" due to my race, gender and sexual orientation incredibly insulting and patronizing.

Edit: god damnit, didn't notice the date
sorry for the necro bump

 

[Durask]

Ethnic+cultural majority in any country is privileged by default. In China, Han Chinese are privileged by default.

If, suppose, in 100 years white non-hispanic birth rate drops further and majority in the US are Hispanics with people of Mexican descent being the most populous eithnic group then males of Mexican descent will most likely be the most privileged group.

The only way to end "white privilege" or, to be more accurate, "majority privilege" is to institute systemic oppression, as such I really wish sometimes that the Left would come out and tell the rest what they _really_ think

Also some examples of stable multi-ethnic cultures without the "majority privilege" would be nice.

 

[Kad5]

Ethnic+cultural majority in any country is privileged by default. In China, Han Chinese are privileged by default.

If, suppose, in 100 years white non-hispanic birth rate drops further and majority in the US are Hispanics with people of Mexican descent being the most populous eithnic group then males of Mexican descent will most likely be the most privileged group.

The only way to end "white privilege" or, to be more accurate, "majority privilege" is to institute systemic oppression, as such I really wish sometimes that the Left would come out and tell the rest what they _really_ think

Also some examples of stable multi-ethnic cultures without the "majority privilege" would be nice.

You're forgetting about privileged minorities in some societies. Those can exist btw.

 

[Durask]

You're forgetting about privileged minorities in some societies. Those can exist btw.

They can but their situation is usually precarious and they are either absorbed by the majority (Mughal Empire I think fits the bill, although my Indian history is not super great) or, er, slaughtered (Tutsi in Rwanda).

 

[Brolic Gaoler]

They can but their situation is usually precarious and they are either absorbed by the majority (Mughal Empire I think fits the bill, although my Indian history is not super great) or, er, slaughtered (Tutsi in Rwanda).

South Africa is the best example of what he's talking about.

 

[Durask]

South Africa is the best example of what he's talking about.

Didn't last very long, did it?

Manchus in China did it from 1644 to 1912.

 

[Zzoram]

Is racism really a big problem in Canada?

Racism is a problem anywhere that has little diversity. In cities it's not as much a problem, in rural areas it's a lot more evident.

Not all racism is hateful either, often there is just a lot of stereotyping because people from small towns in rural areas simply haven't met many people who aren't white so they assume that what they've seen of minority characters portrayed in movies and TV are how all members of that ethnic minority are.

Also, old employee training videos with stereotypes. Ever see a video where the black guy is playing basketball and the asian guy is doing martial arts randomly when they talk about how the company welcomes diversity? The white employees featured tend to have a variety of interests but the minorities have only stereotypical interests.

 

[The Take Out Bandit]

Racism is a problem anywhere that has little diversity. In cities it's not as much a problem, in rural areas it's a lot more evident.

Not all racism is hateful either, often there is just a lot of stereotyping because people from small towns in rural areas simply haven't met many people who aren't white so they assume that what they've seen of minority characters portrayed in movies and TV are how all members of that ethnic minority are.

Also, old employee training videos with stereotypes. Ever see a video where the black guy is playing basketball and the asian guy is doing martial arts randomly when they talk about how the company welcomes diversity? The white employees featured tend to have a variety of interests but the minorities have only stereotypical interests.

Actually, I feel that white flight helps perpetuate this. White people run away from non-whites and the cycle continues. You don't need to be from the backwoods any longer.

In these cases it's more egregious as these are the extremely privileged. Living in communities that aren't walkable (depending upon the multiple car model), are isolated, and contribute to deforestation, and the expansion of big-box stores to serve the new "community".

 

[Dereck]

Has any person of color here wished they were white?

Never

 

[dcdobson]

Didn't last very long, did it?

Manchus in China did it from 1644 to 1912.

It's still immensely better to be a white South African than a non-white South African.

 

[Wazzim]

Oh god what the fuck at my posts in this thread.


WHY

 

[LightofRohan]

Being a white german straight male has its perks, but we have to listen to all the bitching of all the past generations that are mad at us for some reason.