BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Yeah but... The whole point is that it's gonna have negative consequences in a future film.
The Amazing Spider-Man |OT|
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Leeroy3101
Banned
Just got back from seeing it. Honestly, I enjoyed it a lot more than any of the Raimi movies (Yes, that includes the boring Spiderman 2). Spiderman and Parker seemed like two different individuals. Garfield did a great job making both their own characters.
Regarding spoilery specifics:
Regarding spoilery specifics:
-I had an inkling about the deleted plotline about his actual origin. I really wish Sony wouldn't have pressured to cut that from the film. It's just an alternate take on the origin and doesn't "ruin any childhoods" by any means. It's much like the Venom origin from Ultimate Spiderman. I have no gripes with that.
-This had a better subway scene than Spiderman 2.
-Really enjoyed the Stan Lee cameo
-I sort of feel like many do about Uncle Ben's death. I was hoping for a "With great power, comes great responsibility line" but it never happened. The director probably wanted his own stamp on that moment.
-I was happy that Peter did reveal his identity to a couple of people in this film. It was a nice touch.
-Gwen was a decent character. She had more depth than Mary Jane had in all three films.
-I'm assuming that was Osbourne at the end? Sounded like the actor tried channeling his inner Willem Defoe.
-The score was good. Not a memorable theme perse but I enjoyed it a lot more than Eflman's music.
-This had a better subway scene than Spiderman 2.
-Really enjoyed the Stan Lee cameo
-I sort of feel like many do about Uncle Ben's death. I was hoping for a "With great power, comes great responsibility line" but it never happened. The director probably wanted his own stamp on that moment.
-I was happy that Peter did reveal his identity to a couple of people in this film. It was a nice touch.
-Gwen was a decent character. She had more depth than Mary Jane had in all three films.
-I'm assuming that was Osbourne at the end? Sounded like the actor tried channeling his inner Willem Defoe.
-The score was good. Not a memorable theme perse but I enjoyed it a lot more than Eflman's music.
NathanMcMahon
Banned
This. The teasers for all of the Avengers movies were directly referencing a path for those films. It was ballsy of Marvel and Paramount to put Nick Fury in Iron Man. It was a direct statement to the Avengers and the future of their franchises on an unproven series. They then gradually elaborated on tat concept as the films progressed. The one after ASM is shit and does nothing to enhance the story or get you revved up for the sequel. It needed direction and the lack of that makes it weak and piss poor. Any sort of fanboy apologizing over it doesn't change the nature of it's underwhelming promises.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
It's not a stretch at all.. Do i have to spell it out?
Gwen Stacy's gonna die
You might have sensed a "have your cake and eat it too" ending, but that's how you foreshadow this inevitable plot development.
Shit; I'm not dense. I know exactly what you and everybody else were thinking of. I just don't think it's a sure bet that will actually happen, despite everybody's confidence that it will.
And it still doesn't change the fact that it is a weird development to end a superhero movie on, almost nonchalantly. It's not very heroic.
How am I supposed to feel as I walk out of the movie? Pleased that this douche is a superhero? It's strange to write our last glimpse of our protagonist in such a way.
I 100% agree with this. Thought I were the only one thinking like this.
SilentProtagonist
Member
Don't U get it! It's all setting up for The Amazing Spider-Man Rises in part 3!
It's all part of the... keikaku.
Lionel Mandrake
Member
A thought/conspiracy theory occurs involving the removed storylines.
All of a sudden, at the last second, Sony yanks the element that they were promoting for so long-- The "Untold Story" of Spider-Man. Strongly pushing the secret lives of Peter's parents, and that Peter was
Now, it seems like the idea was pretty simple, and in my opinion, not really a big deal. Nothing that fans would decry and freak out over. It just adds a small element of
into the plot. It was obviously fully shot, and special effects were completed. So, why would Sony just silently slice it all out at the last minute? Sure, maybe it was just pacing or time restraints, but it seems like they'd have that figured before they did full CG for Connors.
Here's the "Ancient Aliens" style conspiracy theory.
A few weeks ago some talk came out that there were some plans for the studios to work together and combine both ASM Universe and the Avengers Universe. Supposedly in Avengers, the plan was to have Oscorp Tower to appear in the skyline, to tease the connection. Unfortunately the collaboration happened too late and nothing came out of it. But all of these last minute changes to ASM, I think, could suggest that something more concrete DID happen.
Most of the changes seem to be based around Richard and Mary Parker's role in the story. The trailers looked to make it simply that they were involved in Oscorp's activities. But in the comics, they were involved with Nick Fury and S.H.I.E.L.D. I think there's a real possibility that Columbia really wanted a piece of the Avengers action, and removed all of the parents stuff, so they could work them into the Avengers storyline, and get their foot in the door if the opportunity presented itself. But since it's all too soon to be finalized, they kept it vague so that they can just save the previous idea of the "Untold Story" for the sequels if nothing came out of it.
Again, kind of nuts. But it seems possible to me.
All of a sudden, at the last second, Sony yanks the element that they were promoting for so long-- The "Untold Story" of Spider-Man. Strongly pushing the secret lives of Peter's parents, and that Peter was
SUPPOSED to become Spider-Man.
destiny or whatever
Here's the "Ancient Aliens" style conspiracy theory.
A few weeks ago some talk came out that there were some plans for the studios to work together and combine both ASM Universe and the Avengers Universe. Supposedly in Avengers, the plan was to have Oscorp Tower to appear in the skyline, to tease the connection. Unfortunately the collaboration happened too late and nothing came out of it. But all of these last minute changes to ASM, I think, could suggest that something more concrete DID happen.
Most of the changes seem to be based around Richard and Mary Parker's role in the story. The trailers looked to make it simply that they were involved in Oscorp's activities. But in the comics, they were involved with Nick Fury and S.H.I.E.L.D. I think there's a real possibility that Columbia really wanted a piece of the Avengers action, and removed all of the parents stuff, so they could work them into the Avengers storyline, and get their foot in the door if the opportunity presented itself. But since it's all too soon to be finalized, they kept it vague so that they can just save the previous idea of the "Untold Story" for the sequels if nothing came out of it.
Again, kind of nuts. But it seems possible to me.
come on dude, it was a shitty scene that played out to comical cliche levels. People are talking about it because of how stupid it was, not because it's getting anyone psyched for a sequel.
I think the untold story stuff was removed because it didn't go over well in test screenings.
I think Spider Man is supposed to be more "everyman" than your "typical" superhero. I'm not sure how you're supposed to feel about that, but you don't have to like it.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Well I get your reaction in some sense.
Let me put it this way: to set up the Gwen Stacy story properly, it was necessarily going to be a difficult balancing act.
On the one hand you have
Captain Stacy telling Peter to stay away from Glen, which in the language of cinema essentially means, YES, something bad WILL happen if you stay with her.
And on the other hand,
he has to get the girl, or this whole thing doesn't work. So you have Aunt May saying "go ahead and get her, others' opinions be damned".
Parker clearly tries his hardest not to get with her... until the very last moment.
....Which, I say again, I am sure they're doing.. that's the whole point of making Gwen the love interest. One of the complaints about the Raimi versions was that it completely precluded any focus on the famous death of Gwen Stacy story because of the initial focus on Mary Jane (and even abused the imagery of Gwen's famous bridge death sequence with Mary Jane in the first film, where he somehow manages to save both the girl and the innocent people, in contrast to the "you can only choose one" dilemma of the comics).
I continue to be astounded at how thoroughly some people have drunk the Kool Aid on this movie. The teaser was awful. After it ended at my showing the audience let out an audible "Huh?" Nobody could figure out if it was supposed to be Osborn or Connors' split personality or what. And all it did was remind you that there was a dangling plotline the movie didn't bother to resolve or even satisfactorily address.
As much as I fanboyed out for the teaser in Avengers, I wondered if the mass audience who didn't know who the hell the character in it was would react with anything beyond confusion to it. ASM managed to top it by making even lifelong Spidey fans scratch their heads at what it was trying to accomplish.
Lionel Mandrake
Member
I don't get why it would though. I like comics well enough, and when I heard the idea, I just shrugged. It didn't seem like it would affect anything in the long run.
NathanMcMahon
Banned
Could be that Peter's origin story is ingrained enough in even casual viewers minds that straying to far from it may have been a turn-off.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
I'm with you on this. The teaser was the kind of thing where even if you had an idea of what it was supposed to convey, you were still left scratching your head.
Just got back from seeing it. I thought it was really good. Spidey had much more charisma in this one than he did the others, which I really liked. Great chemistry between the two leads. Out of recent super hero movies, I have it above Thor and Capt. America ,and maybe tied with Avengers.
Leeroy3101
Banned
Not enough people understand the fact of multiple reimagings of the Spiderman origin. I still don't understand why people would be mad at it, though.
I really hope they go full tilt with this sub-plot in the next film. I like the twist as it reminds me of Ultimate Spiderman,
SilentProtagonist
Member
Exactly. And you know what's great about the Marvel teasers, is that the movies have enough easter eggs and quick little nods and details that give us insight into where they're going with the next movie(s). So there's... you know something tangible to speculate.
I must be completely missing some aspect of ASM considering some of these types of reactions. It just isn't even close to punching at the same weight class as The Avengers. Honestly the only MCU film I'd put under ASM would be Iron Man 2. Thor and Captain America certainly aren't great movies, but I was never bored during either of them.
ASM just has these lulls in pacing that are unforgivable in this kind of movie. Nothing as momentum killing as some of the stuff in the Raimi films (as much as I like SM2, the section where his powers malfunction just stops the movie dead), but ASM either needed another 15-20 cut out of it or the "Peter's parents created him/were secret agents/whatever" subplot put back in to fill out the dead space.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
And you have to wait through the credits for teasers! Waiting for this one made me feel like an asshat, lol.
I definitely thought it was better than Cap and Thor. Those were not great films IMO.. more like poly-morphic content to lead into the Avengers for dedicated nerds.
Thought the pacing was fine, was never once bored by the movie and I appreciated that it took its time setting up the origin. Didn't find that the movie had any big lulls.
Salvor.Hardin
Banned
Considering that this movie for the longest time during production wasn't meant to touch on Peter's origin other than a few flashbacks, I'd love to read Vanderbilt's script. I just imagine it to be much stronger than what we finally got with all the revisions.
They needed to remove all those bullshit scenes at Oscorp.
Pachterballs
Banned
Wanted to add that the asm captured spideys mvcapcomish moves well, through the movie, he's lilthe and does these poses etc which are reminiscent of the comics.
But most other parts of it was middling.
Emma stones shock face at the reveal going into the kiss was well funny
But most other parts of it was middling.
Emma stones shock face at the reveal going into the kiss was well funny
Leeroy3101
Banned
The winks and nods were abundant to his parents. Especially all the spider related stuff in his dad's office. I'd like to see a lot of this material in the home release but I doubt it. McG didn't allow all the extra terminator footage to get out. I also highly doubt we'll see the stuff left on the cutting froom floor of Prometheus, as well.
I thought the first one was good and added a good amount of humor.
Pachterballs
Banned
Btw the ozcorp scenes were shot in NYC Hearst building and that's where Marie Claire is, and that made me chuckle
Ha! That's funny, because the reason I said "maybe tied" because I might have liked it better.
I think I'm the only one though.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
You know, after having seen it, I have to cut all the "but why is it a reboot so soon??" reviews some slack.
The fact is, this movie can't exist in a vaccum, and it truly is weird as hell to be seeing these events play out again so soon. And not only that, but to have us re-relate to old characters, some are missing, some are new.... it does conjure up some confusing emotions.
It's not as if we're seeing these events play out again after a massive generational shift. I was 17 when I saw the first one, and I'm 27 now. I don't have an entirely different set of eyes or a new brand new cultural context around me.... yes, the effect of this reboot, so quickly, really is quite odd!
Everyone said "oh it's like the Hulk reboot", but neither of those movies were emotionally resonant like Spidey movies have been. This quick reboot produces a strange new emotional effect.
And it is odd how the new film has to consistently be aware of that, and every "re-do" scene is conspicuously done to be different from the first.
The fact is, this movie can't exist in a vaccum, and it truly is weird as hell to be seeing these events play out again so soon. And not only that, but to have us re-relate to old characters, some are missing, some are new.... it does conjure up some confusing emotions.
It's not as if we're seeing these events play out again after a massive generational shift. I was 17 when I saw the first one, and I'm 27 now. I don't have an entirely different set of eyes or a new brand new cultural context around me.... yes, the effect of this reboot, so quickly, really is quite odd!
Everyone said "oh it's like the Hulk reboot", but neither of those movies were emotionally resonant like Spidey movies have been. This quick reboot produces a strange new emotional effect.
And it is odd how the new film has to consistently be aware of that, and every "re-do" scene is conspicuously done to be different from the first.
Here comes the "Sony forced him to use Venom it's not his fault!" argument.
People are talking about it because of how shitty it was? Really?
I'm not saying it's the best thing since sliced bread, just saying it was purposefully handled to be vague and get a conversation going asking the question "who the fuck was that"? And it worked.
Rewatched Spidey 1....
Amazing takes its sweet time getting to the spider bite, Raimi's jumps right in with pretty much the easiest way possible. The next scene sets up the glider and goblin. It's moving pretty fast at this point, I wish it had more time to breath and set up the characters. Osborn goes to crazytown after two scenes which doesn't give you much time to really give a shit. The Lizard in ASM isn't too much better as a villain (Connors was okay though) but I thought Peter, uncle Ben, and Gwen were all much better. Uncle Ben does almost nothing in Spidey 1.
Also, Goblin's costume looks awful. Hopefully ASM's design is better.
Amazing takes its sweet time getting to the spider bite, Raimi's jumps right in with pretty much the easiest way possible. The next scene sets up the glider and goblin. It's moving pretty fast at this point, I wish it had more time to breath and set up the characters. Osborn goes to crazytown after two scenes which doesn't give you much time to really give a shit. The Lizard in ASM isn't too much better as a villain (Connors was okay though) but I thought Peter, uncle Ben, and Gwen were all much better. Uncle Ben does almost nothing in Spidey 1.
Also, Goblin's costume looks awful. Hopefully ASM's design is better.
I don't even want to think about how great this would be. Too painful.
Speedymanic
Banned
In fairness, the movie did very much feel like Sandman's arc, Venom did feel shoehorned in.
Saying that, raimi could and should have done a much better job than he did with Venom.
Salvor.Hardin
Banned
Was the untold story cut from the amazing spider-man? http://badassdigest.com/2012/07/05/was-the-untold-story-cut-from-the-amazing-spider-man/
So this part of the article really bothered me when I was watching the movie:
The way he reacted really did make it seem like his parents weren't initially meant to have died in a plane crash.
Edit: Holy shit I called it! There was in fact a date scene that was cut out when Peter convinces Gwen to come out with him.
There is no "argument" here - Sony DID force Raimi to use Venom. Fact. But that's not to say Raimi still doesn't deserve the lion's share of the blame for 3 - he does.
What I'm referencing more than anything is the absolute slap in the face Raimi must have felt when it came time do do 3. He did 1, with a fairly high degree of artistic freedom, and made Sony rich off it. Then he did 2, with even more freedom and even better results. So naturally for 3, they'd continue in that vein, right? Nope. This is the point where Sony decided they wanted to have their cake and eat it too. Suddenly Raimi is forced to deal with elements in the movie that he never wanted and never had any interest in, all for the almighty dollar for Sony.
While I do agree that "Raimi intentionally tanked the movie!" is a crazy notion (not to mention one that would have seen him blackballed in Hollywood), I do think it is 100% clear that Raimi never had his heart into 3 with the constraints Sony put on him. And as such, rather than entertain with a nicely developed and heartfelt narrative and thematic elements as before, he instead focused on the more goofy, comic bookish side of things.
I contend that had Raimi gotten his way on 3 that almost NONE of the Raimi trilogy backlash that pervades GAF would exist.
Would have been too awesome for words.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
I think you're right.
I kind of wish they had concluded the Raimi trilogy with 3, and then brought in an all new team to do a second Spidey trilogy, but more or less in continuity with the old ones. Then you could start getting into the more wacky stuff like Venom (I do think that is a story that could be done well in a film someday).
Bingo. Raimi should have gotten to do 3 with just Sandman (or Lizard or Mysterio or Vulture or whoever he wanted). Finish his trilogy with a bang (instead of the whimper it did end on), wait 5 years, reboot.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Well they did die in a plane crash..... after they had "ran away".
Though it's somewhat whiny to get angry at people for dying, I have seen film characters angry at the loss of loved ones in a similar way before.
YOU DON'T SAY!!
"Planned" = "the movie is doing well enough that we have decided to exercise our options on our leads for two more movies".
It's no more a planned trilogy than Raimi's was. Which is to say, it's not planned in any way, shape or form on the artistic side. Purely on the financial one.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
I remember Sony saying, somewhere after the release of 2, that NINE Spider-man movies were planned, 3 mini-trilogies apiece.
As long as the money keeps flowing....
Agreed. Marvel knows how to do post credit scenes.
"Holy shit Avengers"
"Holy shit Thor's hammer"
"Holy shit THANOS"
With Amazing, my reaction was "holy shit... uh... wait who was that?" Not particularly excited for the sequel after that "teaser".
I remember that too. I do believe at one point it might have been a 9 picture deal they had. But at some point that got changed to the "you own the rights forever so long as you keep making movies" type of deal.
SilentProtagonist
Member
So I bet you're pretty hyped that there's going to be a man after Peter Parker in the sequel. Or maybe it was just Curt Connors being crazy, so then that scene meant nothing.
brandonh83
Banned
Oh man, not good? I was excited to play it and was just about to add it to my Gamefly queue. Not such a good idea?
Salvor.Hardin
Banned
In regards to the whole debate regarding the post-credits scene, I'd just like to say that I think those scenes are best used as a kind of easter-egg for the fans. I think the TAS post-credits scene would have worked better if it were just in the movie before the credits given that it doesn't tease anything worth thinking over because it's far too vague for its own good.
Elaborating on The Bad:
1. Parker suddenly morphs into a wisecracker for single awkward scene.
What the hell was this scene? So fucking awkward. The first time he confronts a bad guy (the car thief) as Spider-man, Garfield suddenly turns into this witty wisecracking guy when he's not like that AT ALL in the rest of the movie, before or after that scene. So out of place and forced, it's crazy.
2. The Lizard looks like a Goomba from the Super Mario Bros. movie.
3. More people know Spider-man’s identity than don’t.
He takes off his mask...a lot. I don't think there was a scene where he didn't take off his mask or reveal to the other character in the scene who he was. His camera says "Property of Peter Parker" on it.
4. The cranes and the crane guy. Corny as fuck and went on forever.
[Chandler] Could this forced, corny ass scene have gone on any longer? The crane guy is the dad of the kid he saved? They miraculously had cranes in a row and the dude was smart enough to know in 1.4 seconds exactly what Spidey needed help with?
5. Parker’s parents’ outcome handled very poorly.
Peter Parker is super mad and angry tears at his parents for not being there, then Bings them and in a newspaper clip it says they died in a plane crash.
6. A LOT of shameless Sony product placement.
For some reason I wasn't as pissed about Bing as I was of Vaio and Xperia.
7. Flash Thompson’s character evolution doesn’t make any sense.
Can someone please explain to me this character? He goes from making fun of and beating up Parker to being humiliated by Parker on the bball court to consoling him about Uncle Ben's death (which Parker slams him against the locker), to hugging him in the hallway. Errrr... were we supposed to figure out he's a changed person from something? Why is he nice to Parker? Why is he nice to Parker after Parker has been really mean to him? WTF
10. Jeremy Renner is in one of the previews before the movie.
For the love of god, stop it Hollywood. Just stop.
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