Xbox Next /Xbox 720 / Durango Patent?

Proelite said:
Doesn't make sense for them to have two sets of CPU/GPUs. It would be much cheaper to have the more powerful CPU/GPU partially reserved to do the multimedia stuff.

The only way this would make sense is if they're also releasing standalone machines, aka tablets, with only the weaker CPU/GPU set.
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do it make sense now?

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Slide26.jpg
 
Valnen said:
Because if you used all that hardware for the games you could have even more impressive games. Which is the entire point =/.
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Doesn't the same argument apply to the 360?? All that resources put into running the dashboard in the background could've been used for better looking games.
 
adelante said:
Doesn't the same argument apply to the 360?? All that resources put into running the dashboard in the background could've been used for better looking games.
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Yes but I'm sure the dashboard doesn't use literally half the hardware in the system when running a game. It seems like a waste of resources when they could have designed a console for the same amount of money with even better game playing power.
 
Valnen said:
That's...horrible. The main purpose of a game console is first and foremost to play games. As much resources as possible in the system should be dedicated to making the gaming experience better, everything else should be secondary.
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Console? lol it's now a 'Multimedia Computer System'


USC-fan said:
That goes against what devs are saying. Lherre said ps4 will be 10x ps3 and Xbox will be even More powerful.
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when you see specs that have 8GB of ram \ 3 CPUs & 2 GPUs your 1st thought is this is this is going to be the most powerful console the world has ever seen.
 
Valnen said:
Yes but I'm sure the dashboard doesn't use literally half the hardware in the system when running a game. It seems like a waste of resources when they could have designed a console for the same amount of money with even better game playing power.
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Do we even know if the application partition will make up anywhere near half of the entire system's resources? I guess my point is developers will never be able to utilize the console's full potential for games because there will always be resources allocated for other uses.
 
adelante said:
Do we even know if the application partition will make up anywhere near half of the entire system's resources? I guess my point is developers will never be able to utilize the console's full potential for games because there will always be resources allocated for other uses.
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That's what it sounds like to me from what is being described. Enormous amounts of resources devoted to multimedia.
 
onQ123 said:
when you see specs that have 8GB of ram \ 3 CPUs & 2 GPUs your 1st thought is this is this is going to be the most powerful console the world has ever seen.
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Uh no. Doubt any dev would think that base off just that. They have the target specs and now dev kits. Seeing these specs would make me think it just a bunch of low power part.
 
Valnen said:
That's what it sounds like to me from what is being described. Enormous amounts of resources devoted to multimedia.
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Well lets put it this way, had they come up with a much beefier cpu/gpu partition to run games on, we'd STILL be complaining of wasteful resources on the application side that could've otherwise been allocated to games instead. Make no mistake, this is a multimedia console and whatever hardware decisions they make for each partition needs to meet a balance where they can price this thing right
 
adelante said:
Well lets put it this way, had they come up with a much beefier cpu/gpu partition to run games on, we'd STILL be complaining of wasteful resources on the application side that could've otherwise been allocated to games instead. Make no mistake, this is a multimedia console and whatever hardware decisions they make for each partition needs to meet a balance where they can price this thing right
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The Application partition is for games because a game is an application. The OS gets its own partition and everything else gets one too. I highly doubt the 2 partitions will be symmetrical it makes much more sense to use a low power SoC to run the OS and leave the heavy lifting to the Application partition. The OS needs resources and I think this is a better way to have an always on system that doesn't consume a lot of power being always on. According to this fact sheet from Apple the ATV2 uses a whole 2w of power to stream HD video.

https://www.apple.com/environment/reports/docs/AppleTV_Product_Environmental_Report_2012.pdf

This kind of power consumption makes a similar SoC very attractive for an always on console.
 
Still nothing that requires a beast. The only thing different from what is already available is being able to play Xbox games on your phone (from the MS slides). Remote play can sort of do that, but it makes sense to reserve silicon for it so it can be applied to all games without taking CPU from the game (plus they could possibly use dedicated hardware for faster compression). Perhaps they could move kinect processing out of the 'game' area so developers can use it as an input without compromising the resources they have available.

DVR recording? Serving files to other clients? Doesn't need much CPU, you could probably do it on 360 if you wanted to.


An actual hardware split has no specific advantage compared to just reserving a core like in the 360. Probably adds some cost and architectural complexity to integrate it all. If they are doing that, it might suggest they plan to spin the media side out as a cheaper box as was rumoured. As a streaming only box, but it would also be the client which the big box in the lounge would stream to. I wonder how MS will handle the cable companies etc. at least in the uk, the major players both charge you extra per month to receive their service in another room. They won't want MS streaming recordings for free around the house
 
All that shit is gravy. How will the games look. Will I be able to play 1313 quality graphics at launch?
 
I hope this is not true at all, fortunately I can't see the next Xbox being underpowered to that extent.


But thank God I have my PC in any case.
 
onQ123 said:
The Next box is powerful but all that power will not be for games & they plan for it to be about 4X to 6X to Xbox360 when it come to games while being the best media device you will have in your home.
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In short, a failure nobody will buy a xbox next so underpowered especially if the PS4 is really 10x the ps3.If the 360 was a success was because of the power and especially in the early years many and various exclusive.
No power = no hardcore gamers.
 
gaming_noob said:
This just might become the best selling console next gen if everything is done right.
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You mean by offering only a moderate power increase over the current generation because they want to emphasize their online services and multimedia capabilities which will likely be restricted to North America only? I am very sceptical about such a concept, I want them to focus on games.
 
Ales said:
In short, a failure nobody will buy a xbox next so underpowered especially if the PS4 is really 10x the ps3.If the 360 was a success was because of the power and especially in the early years many and various exclusive.
No power = no hardcore gamers.
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Wrong! Power has never been the number one reason to buy a console never!


6X Xbox360 is good enough for the average consumer & the average consumer out weigh Hardcore Gamers by millions & millions & if graphics meant so much to the so called hardcore gamers Uncharted & KillZone would outsell Call of Duty , the PlayStation Vita would outsell the 3DS , Xbox would have sold 150 millions while the PS2 sold 24 million the Wii would have failed & the PS3 would have sold 90 million by now.
 
Represent. said:
All that shit is gravy. How will the games look. Will I be able to play 1313 quality graphics at launch?
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1313 is baseline for next generation. It's a UE3 game, and when the first UE4 stuff begins to popup in two years time, it will be a totally different visual experience.
 
onQ123 said:
Wrong! Power has never been the number one reason to buy a console never!


6X Xbox360 is good enough for the average consumer & the average consumer out weigh Hardcore Gamers by millions & millions & if graphics meant so much to the so called hardcore gamers Uncharted & KillZone would outsell Call of Duty , the PlayStation Vita would outsell the 3DS , Xbox would have sold 150 millions while the PS2 sold 24 million the Wii would have failed & the PS3 would have sold 90 million by now.
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Wrong example the xbox 1 has sold poorly because of the delay and the lack of support from third party,while the PS2 lived on the success of the long wave of ps1.
If PS4 and next Xbox will come out in the same period and with a similar price but with the PS4 significantly better in both multi that in the exclusive nobody will buy an xbox next at least in Europe.
4x/6x the power of the 360 ​​after 8 years it would be ridiculous.
 
Ales said:
Perhaps in the U.S. but not in Europe.For European players are important power/graphics and exclusive AAA.
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Also, unless you're in Germany, UK or France you get virtually zero services like ESPN and such.
 
Ales said:
4x/6x the power of the 360 ​​after 8 years it would be ridiculous.
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The average consumer is more likely to measure the strength of the new console by the visual improvement it offers than by how long its predecessor has been on the market.
 
onQ123 said:
Wrong! Power has never been the number one reason to buy a console never!
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prove it :)


for example , i would buy , without hesitation an Xbox/Playstation next, with the very same gamepad , online system, user interface system (and so on) but more graphics power.

why ?

because our current console hardware is not enough for a decent 1080p experience
 
Ales said:
Wrong example the xbox 1 has sold poorly because of the delay and the lack of support from third party,while the PS2 lived on the success of the long wave of ps1.
If PS4 and next Xbox will come out in the same period and with a similar price but with the PS4 significantly better in both multi that in the exclusive nobody will buy an xbox next at least in Europe.
4x/6x the power of the 360 ​​after 8 years it would be ridiculous.
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Wii & PS3 released the same month.


also pay attention! in 8 years they will have updated boxes.
 
Hiro_Kunimi_80 said:
prove it :)


for example , i would buy , without hesitation an Xbox/Playstation next, with the very same gamepad , online system, user interface system (and so on) but more graphics power.

why ?

because our current console hardware is not enough for a decent 1080p experience
Click to expand...

but will your mom or dad buy that?
 
For those trying to view the images, you need a TIFF viewer. It should be readily available for Mac OS utilizing the Safari browser with a Quicktime plugin (installs automatically by default).

For Windows, here's a help site by the USPTO: http://appft1.uspto.gov/netahtml/PTO/help/images.html

As for the system, good find I must say, strange it wasn't up earlier. I like these parts:

2. The multimedia computer system of claim 1, wherein: the application CPU and the platform CPU are separate processors with no shared cache memory.

3. The multimedia computer system of claim 1, wherein: the application GPU and the platform GPU are separate processors with no shared embedded RAM memory.

Additionally, one or more shared computing resources may comprise an additional CPU which may execute instructions for a platform service application or the multimedia software application to provide consistent performance for the multimedia application based on the one or more QoS guarantees for the multimedia application. In some embodiments, an additional CPU may execute a general purpose operating system.
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Oh, and just to quote while images are currently not available:

BRIEF DESCRIPTION OF THE DRAWINGS

[0011] FIG. 1 illustrates an example embodiment of a target recognition, analysis, and tracking system with users participating in a game.

[0012] FIG. 2 illustrates an example embodiment of a console computing system communicatively coupled with a capture device.

[0013] FIG. 3A is a block diagram of an embodiment of a multimedia computer system architecture providing QoS multimedia guarantees with scalable platform services.

[0014] FIG. 3B is a block diagram of another embodiment of a multimedia computer system architecture like that of FIG. 3A with an additional shared CPU and GPU.

[0015] FIG. 3C is a flowchart of an embodiment of a method for changing the operation mode of at least one processing unit between a multimedia mode and a general purpose computing mode.

[0016] FIG. 4 illustrates another example embodiment of a multimedia computing system such as may be embodied in a console.

[0017] FIG. 5A is a block diagram of an embodiment of a multimedia computer system architecture providing QoS multimedia guarantees with scalable platform services.

[0018] FIG. 5B is a block diagram of another version of the embodiment of a multimedia computer system architecture providing QoS multimedia guarantees of FIG. 5A.

[0019] FIG. 6 is a flowchart describing one embodiment of a method for allocating a computing resource between the multimedia application and a platform service application based on one or more quality of service (QoS) guarantees for the multimedia application.

[0020] FIG. 7 is a flowchart describing one embodiment of a process implementing priority as a QoS guarantee processing technique for a latency guarantee.

[0021] FIG. 8 is a flowchart illustrating an example of a QoS guarantee method for processing a memory request based on criteria for providing consistent real-time performance.
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I can only hope there is a game option and media option when you boot up. That would be awesome but I know it won't happen. I'd love to not have them all intertwined and such.

I have no problem with what they want to show me, I just really hate not being able to customize something that SCREAMS customization. Folders on the PS3 were the greatest thing and I wish you could do that within the interface on the 360.

The only worry I have is that it will have a Gaming GPU/CPU and an Ad server GPU/CPU ... I mean "media" server GPU/CPU ...
 
onQ123 said:
Wii & PS3 released the same month.


also pay attention! in 8 years they will have updated boxes.
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1)With totally different prices.

2)With this assumption is no longer a console.The console allows users to play for 6/7 years with the same machine with no other changes.
Who is the fool who would buy an xbox next if after 3 years would not be able to run games??
This strategy seems like a failure for Europe where MS does not make available the 90% of the services of xbox live and where most users are interested in good graphics and exclusive.

If the PS4 will be much more powerful than the xbox next with output in the market during the same period and with a similar price mean the dead for the xbox.
 
Ales said:
Who is the fool who would buy an xbox next if after 3 years would not be able to run games??
This strategy seems like a failure for Europe where MS does not make available the 90% of the services of xbox live and where most users are interested in good graphics and exclusive.

If the PS4 will be much more powerful than the xbox next with output in the market during the same period and with a similar price mean the dead for the xbox.
Click to expand...
What? A console you bought doesn't run games after three years? That is grasping at straws.
 
Ales said:
1)With totally different prices.

2)With this assumption is no longer a console.The console allows users to play for 6/7 years with the same machine with no other changes.
Who is the fool who would buy an xbox next if after 3 years would not be able to run games??
This strategy seems like a failure for Europe where MS does not make available the 90% of the services of xbox live and where most users are interested in good graphics and exclusive.

If the PS4 will be much more powerful than the xbox next with output in the market during the same period and with a similar price mean the dead for the xbox.
Click to expand...

The games part is the part that isn't changing, it's the media server stuff that would be updated according to the speculation. So you'd be fine.
 
mrklaw said:
An actual hardware split has no specific advantage compared to just reserving a core like in the 360. Probably adds some cost and architectural complexity to integrate it all. If they are doing that, it might suggest they plan to spin the media side out as a cheaper box as was rumoured. As a streaming only box, but it would also be the client which the big box in the lounge would stream to. I wonder how MS will handle the cable companies etc. at least in the uk, the major players both charge you extra per month to receive their service in another room. They won't want MS streaming recordings for free around the house
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Also known as Jeff_Rigby's fabled X365/361/Loop. I'd be willing to bet money on it also using an X360 SoC and Kinect. Loop for everyone, 720 for enthusiasts, shared eco systems.
 
Gemüsepizza;39710951 said:
You mean by offering only a moderate power increase over the current generation because they want to emphasize their online services and multimedia capabilities which will likely be restricted to North America only? I am very sceptical about such a concept, I want them to focus on games.
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This is what I fear. They've shown ZERO effort in implementing serves for anything outside of NA. Not only that, but many places are broadband limited... they are severally limiting their consumer base IMO.
 
I was hoping that MS would make more headway with procedural graphics which would make digital distribution feasible due to the smaller size of games.
 
Ales said:
1)With totally different prices.

2)With this assumption is no longer a console.The console allows users to play for 6/7 years with the same machine with no other changes.
Who is the fool who would buy an xbox next if after 3 years would not be able to run games??
This strategy seems like a failure for Europe where MS does not make available the 90% of the services of xbox live and where most users are interested in good graphics and exclusive.

If the PS4 will be much more powerful than the xbox next with output in the market during the same period and with a similar price mean the dead for the xbox.
Click to expand...

you are really not paying attention.

it's not a console it's now a Multimedia Computer System

& if you buy the Xbox you will still be able to play new games in 3 years but just like with the iOS devices they will release newer models with better features & hardware, people love new stuff & if they already have the software they will buy the knew hardware if it has the features that they want & play the software that they already own even better but they don't have to buy the new hardware.



the graphics will be good enough & you don't know if the power difference will be big enough to change people's mind about which console they want.

I have a question for you do high end PCs sell more than mid range PCs?
 
Ales said:
Answer to the hypothesis of onQ123 of a next xbox with constant changes during the years (as ipad, etc. ..)
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Ms metro approach for games is to develop for lower power systems and scale up to the high end desktop ones, so perhaps a similar philosophy would be applied here. They are even providing facilities in both api and visual studio so the game can auto scale according to hardware features and performance.

In fact, all of this would make perfect sense if the next xbox runs a somewhat modified version of windowsRT with the ability to run W8 metro apps (but with a separate store where Ms could apply their famed console restrictions) and the long term plan is to have metro as the central platform that could be run everywhere.
 
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