What are your issues with Sonic?

Currygan said:
no, I'm with you

even at nine, when i first played Sonic for the Megadrive, I couldnt understand what the fuss was all about. I was like "People are comparing this to SMW?"

I just find Sonic, the world, its core gameplay completely bland and too simple


nice music though.
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Replace Sonic with Mario, Megadrive with SNES and SMW with Sonic, and you have my oppinion.
 
Did you play Sonic Generations 360/PS3/PC?
Yes, the PS3 version.
Did you enjoy Sonic Generations?
Not really. I really like the look and sound of the game and it had some cute ideas sprinkled over the overall package, but I can't say I enjoyed playing it. What surprised me the most is that I ended up finding the Modern Sonic stages to be quite more enjoyable than the Classic stages. The absolute low point of the game were the bosses and gimmick stages. I drudged through it because a few friends of mine insisted I should. I assumed a lot of the appeal of this game was supposed to come from an already established appreciation of the entries in the series, but without that, it kind of felt a little flat.

Did you play Sonic Colors Wii?
I did.
Did you enjoy Sonic Colors?
It was decent. I felt like they put some effort in making the inevitable slow moments of Sonic games feel less like a chore. Usually when I come to a grinding halt in these games, both 2D and 3D, the controls feel weird and the games just become a pain until you get to build up some momentum again. Colors tried to add some gimmicks in the slower sections and I thought it worked OK for the most part. I'm not sure if Sonic will ever really be my thing, but I think this might be the direction they should explore further.
 
Colours not being on psxbox was upsetting, it has the best gameplay out of all the modern 3D games, slightly above generations which was also great but was more unleashed daytime then colours platforming.
 
nan0 said:
It was just plain annoying. The games are about speed, but the levels were part exploration/part speed segments. There was no flow, and losing rings when hitting a single enemy didn't favor exploration but rather speedrunning through the levels. I wasn't a SEGA gamer back in the nineties and have more fond memories of Mario, though.

It would have been cool if it focused on either of them, but I can't get any fun out of them.
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Part exploration/part speed defines sonic and is why a lot of us enjoyed the mega drive/cd games so much.
 
Nothing really. I wish Generations had had more downloadable content, but I'm fine with where SEGA is taking the series (barring 4).
 
Sonic series are purely a Genesis/Mega-Drive franchise

all atempts to revive Sonic across the generations have failed. Even the closest attempts on GBA do not even match the Genesis feeling no matter what fans or Sega says.

Sonic THH 4 was a prime example of total fail then Sega trying to fix things in Generations but not getting it.

Sonic to me is Sonic 1, CD, 2, 3&K ... ends there that's it that's all
 
After the Genesis titles, they abandoned clever and interesting platforming for OMGHERUNSSOFAST.

I don't think there's anyone on Sonic Team who has any idea what makes a platformer good. Generations gets praise around here, but the platforming in it is poor in the 2D sections and god-awful in 3D.
 
Brashnir said:
After the Genesis titles, they abandoned clever and interesting platforming for OMGHERUNSSOFAST.

I don't think there's anyone on Sonic Team who has any idea what makes a platformer good. Generations gets praise around here, but the platforming in it is poor in the 2D sections and god-awful in 3D.
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I thought the platforming in Generations was miles better than unleashed...unleashed to me was the "runsofast" you mention but generations felts slowed down (which is good)
 
Khold said:
I thought the platforming in Generations was miles better than unleashed...unleashed to me was the "runsofast" you mention but generations felts slowed down (which is good)
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Yes, it went from terrible in Unleashed to boring with Generations, but it never made it to good.
 
The brutal truth is, the team responsible for this once breakout franchise no longer have the talent in their ranks the Mega Drive (and even Saturn) era Sonic Team had. No Naka on programming, Ohshima on art, and Yasuhara on genius level design (this guy here was their biggest loss). At best you've got the outsourced Dimps games, and a set of pretty unknown individuals that contractually create a Sonic game every few years and who, due to some overwhelmingly shitty games and poor calls over the years, are going to also play it pretty safe to not divorce any success from their fiercely loyal fanbase that have seized hold of Colours and Generations like some dual-pronged Messiah to lead them from the internet's boundless derision to a Hedgehog engine built promised land.

For the Sonic series to ever achieve anything close to its lost prestige, it would take Sega forming its own new super-talent dev studio for the express purpose of rebooting their mascot to previous heady heights, or Sega as a whole dies off and properties find new homes elsewhere (it feels kinda inevitable that Sonic is going to become linked more strongly to Nintendo since thats the platform where he sees sales the most).
 
My main issue is that Sonic is a one trick pony. Sonic runs fast, that's all it does and Sega makes games after games based on this sole gimmick. It got old a pretty long time ago for me.
 
It's impossible to please everyone and in Sonic's case, that's the fans that started playing back in the 90s. My second Sonic game was Heroes and I really enjoyed it. Didn't play any after that though.
 
BrainZEROX said:
My main issue is that Sonic is a one trick pony. Sonic runs fast, that's all it does and Sega makes games after games based on this sole gimmick. It got old a pretty long time ago for me.
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Sir_Crocodile said:
Modern sonic sure.

The MD/CD games were rather more nuanced.
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This is why Colors is an important evolution of the formula that Sega shouldn't bury and forget about.

The power up system is actually really good, far better than the older Sonic power ups. It provides much needed play variety within the stages, enables tons of secrets that can take some thought to figure out.

Many of the 2D sections in Colors are honestly better in design and concept than anything in the Genesis games; people put those games on a pedestal primarily due to the physics.

If Colors had been made on stronger hardware running at 60fps, with physics and control tweaked just a little more, I really think it would be hailed not just as a good Sonic game, but one of the best character action games of the last six years.
 
Kaijima said:
Many of the 2D sections in Colors are honestly better in design and concept than anything in the Genesis games; people put those games on a pedestal primarily due to the physics.
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No, level design is just as important. When Sonic 3 came out, one of the magazines at the time had multipage spreads with the entire level layout of each zone with total detail - looked like they'd done screencaps of every bit and megred them together(very handy for finding giant rings!). Having studied those comprehensivley back then, I can tell you the design there was fantastic.

Kaijima said:
If Colors had been made on stronger hardware running at 60fps, with physics and control tweaked just a little more, I really think it would be hailed not just as a good Sonic game, but one of the best character action games of the last six years.
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It would have also needed to abandon the pseudo-3d sections, and have more interesting badniks.
 
SpacePirate Ridley said:
I havent played Colors, but from all what I have seen and hear, it seems to be a better game than generations.
I still need redesings though.
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It's more cohesive and provides more of a platforming experience that people are looking for. Compared to the likes of Unleashed and Generations, it's more fixated on utilizing powerups to navigate through the levels as opposed to speeding through them. Because Colours didn't grant you boost all the time, you couldn't just hold the boost button to win because you were just limited to the amount of it you could do. And if you did it all the time, you'd screw up.

To an extent, that sort of happens in Unleashed too if you can't control the boost.

SonicMegaDrive said:
Oh, and I can't handle pretentious garbage in Sonic. It's a fucking colorful little kids game with happy, bouncy memorable music and dancing fucking flowers. I don't need melodramatics in my anthropomorphic children's mascot character games. Please.
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This. Can't stand that melodrama shit. Hedgehog against mad scientist who was tearing up the environment and mining for minerals and energy. That's it. Sonic games don't need to start with a cutscene, really.

Going back to screwing up his schemes in Unleashed, Colours, and Generations was fine.
 
well I never played a Sonic game and decided to buy Sonic Colors this week, mifth play it in a few days as soon as I manage to clear a bit my backlog, if I like this I migth buy generations for PC

btw
The key thing here is that Sonic hasn't had a bad time with sales, just a bad time with the fans and critics. It's also that Sonic at a certain point in time was Mario's rival, neck and neck, toe to toe, mono e mono.
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I think this should be mano a mano (hand to hand in spanish) mono a mono means something like monkey and monkey, unless thas is not spanish then nvm :P
 
Sonic Generations Classic stages have better physics than all the 2.5 Mario games since forever so they just need to go on like this.
 
Paracelsus said:
Sonic Generations Classic stages have better physics than all the 2.5 Mario games since forever so they just need to go on like this.
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I think if they made a massive, S3&K-scale game on Classic Sonic's engine (with # of levels close to Colors which had around 70), that would be awesome. Too bad they're wasting their time on shit like Sonic 4.
 
My issue with sonic is that it doesn't work on wood.

On a more serious note: I never played the original Sonic back in the day, but I did play Sonic 1+2 on the PS3 (yay, PS+). It's kind of funny to hear people complain about the current sonics having crappy platforming, when the originals were just as bad at the actual platforming elements. That's not to say that Sonic is a bad game, but even in the early incarnations, the platforming elements come across as annoying bits that get in the way of the awesome speed moments.
 
Fine Ham Abounds said:
As ridiculous as it may be, I have been unable to see past the worst of the fans ever since. I have tried, and it only succeeds in depressing the heck out of me.
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So have you stopped playing Mario because there is a mind-bogglingly huge section of fans with vocal Yoshi-inflation sexual fetishes?
 
Lord-Audie said:
My issue with sonic is that I grew past 13.

Is not relevant to me anymore.
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2S6Wl.jpg


this is what you sound like, just so you know
 
I just miss the settings found in the original series.

Sonic died a little to me when they started placing him in Earthly environments.
 
There hasn't been a good Sonic game since Sonic & Knuckles. Those early Sonic games were as much about platforming as they were about speed. The controls and abilities (e.g. powerups in Sonic 3) reflected this. A lot of people, including the guys at Sega, seem to be convinced that Sonic is all about speed (I guess the marketing worked) and I think that's where the problems begin. Sonic games since Sonic Adventure have been all about holding in one direction and occasionally pressing jump (often just to start a homing attack).

If Sega wants to make a decent Sonic game again I think they should forget everything they made after Sonic & Knuckles, including the new edgy Sonic design, Sonic's new friends, the homing attack, "Eggman", the embarrassingly bad stories and characters they put in recent games, etc. Then, with that mindset, they should make the logical sequel to Sonic & Knuckles.
 
The fact there hasn't been a good 2D Sonic since Sonic 3 & Knuckles. I liked the Advance and Rush games but they will never compare to the Genesis games. I miss earning speed and rolling around levels like an active pinball.

Now it's all about homing attacking everything and going as fast as stupidly possible instead of being able to play the game for what it should be; a good platformer. Sonic 4 just made me realize SEGA will never be able to make Sonic into the franchise I wish it could be again.

I'm definitely in the group of people who aren't a fan of Sonic's modern design and prefer his classic iteration more.

Did you play Sonic Generations 360/PS3/PC?
I did, 360 version. I own it.
Did you enjoy Sonic Generations?
It was pretty good, not the best but I enjoyed it enough. I didn't give it the time to finish it though.
Did you play Sonic Colors Wii?
I did, I own it.
Did you enjoy Sonic Colors?
I liked it a bit more than Generations, strange enough. I thought it was a great game, and I loved how simple it was in design. Just good ol' Sonic running through levels again with powerups and bosses. That's how I like it. Jumping was a bit clunky but it wasn't anywhere near unplayable.
 
Sega desperately needs to take a page out of Nintendo's book and fracture the series into two big-budget halves, one classic-oriented 2D half (and in the process abandon Dimps forever) and a 3D half that can keep iterating and doing its own thing. They're two completely different takes on the series, and pouring all of the money into one over the other has been nothing but bad ever since 2D was relegated to handhelds.

They should probably also can Iizuka, pending how the next major entry turns out.

Bgamer90 said:
Bring back the catchy beats!
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Michael Jackson's dead, man.
 
The main issue I have is that it's just never been a very good platformer in the way that the Super Mario Brothers/World games were. The first SMB is a whole lot tighter in terms of mechanics than any Sonic game has ever been, and it came out a whole console generation before Sonic.

It's just you have to basically choose between speed or accuracy and the two just never jived imho. I've never really played through an entire 3D sonic game, but as soon as Sega started focusing on a narrative for the Sonic franchise rather than trying to make the mechanics better they completely lost me, and it doesn't seem like they've done much since to win me over.
 
Goldenroad said:
The main issue I have is that it's just never been a very good platformer in the way that the Super Mario Brothers/World games were. The first SMB is a whole lot tighter in terms of mechanics than any Sonic game has ever been, and it came out a whole console generation before Sonic.

It's just you have to basically choose between speed or accuracy and the two just never jived imho. I've never really played through an entire 3D sonic game, but as soon as Sega started focusing on a narrative for the Sonic franchise rather than trying to make the mechanics better they completely lost me, and it doesn't seem like they've done much since to win me over.
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To be fair, the original SMB is a lot tighter and has better mechanics than 99% of platformers ever made, even to this very day.
 
Goldenroad said:
The main issue I have is that it's just never been a very good platformer in the way that the Super Mario Brothers/World games were. The first SMB is a whole lot tighter in terms of mechanics than any Sonic game has ever been, and it came out a whole console generation before Sonic.

It's just you have to basically choose between speed or accuracy and the two just never jived imho. I've never really played through an entire 3D sonic game, but as soon as Sega started focusing on a narrative for the Sonic franchise rather than trying to make the mechanics better they completely lost me, and it doesn't seem like they've done much since to win me over.
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Mario is an excellent platformer, but I certainly disagree with your statement that Sonic never had mechanics that were on par with Mario. Sonic & Knuckles is the finest of level design and mechanics for me, Mario doesn't come close to that game in my opinion.

It's not speed that's uncontrollable in those games, it's momentum you earn from the way you and you yourself specifically play the game. Just like how in Mario you can choose to either to run or walk at certain segments.
 
Forgot to replky to this.

Did you play Sonic Generations 360/PS3/PC?
Yes, played it on PC.

Did you enjoy Sonic Generations?
I did, even if it was by no means a perfect game.

Did you play Sonic Colors Wii?
Nope, don't have a Wii.

Did you enjoy Sonic Colors?
See above.

So I'll get to the point now. What are your issues with Sonic? Here is a list below that states some of the most popular issues with Sonic, feel free to post the numbers to represent which one.

  • 1. Modern Design

    I am not a fan of Sonic's modern design. His classic design was more in line with classic cartoon characters like Felix the Cat and Mickey Mouse, making classic Sonic look charming, yet cool. Modern Sonic leans too much towards an 'EXXXXTREEEEEEEEEEEME' look for my tastes, like Sega took classic Sonic's 'dude with a 'tude' personality and cranked it up to 11.

  • 2. I don't like the Adventure series (Meaning you've played the Adventure games)

    The first Adventure was.. OK, I guess. Yeah, the story is a terrible attempt at an 'epic' plot that has no place in a Sonic game, Sonic shouldn't talk as much as he does in Adventure and neither should Tails and Robotnik (the dialogue in SA was generally awful anyway), playing as Big was terrible (and Big as a character was annoying), the camera was, at times, completely broken, and you could occasionally fall through the floor. And the music wasn't as good as Sonic 1-3&K either. But it was still an OK game. What I played of SA2 wasn't much to my liking though, and Sonic Heroes was pretty goddamn bad. Shadow was.. the gameplay wasn't as much broken as it was just boring, but an angsty, angry Sonic clone who curses, rides motorbikes and kills enemies with uzis.. what? And in one of the endings he actually kills Robotnik. I mean.. why. What where they thinking? Never played Sonic 2k6 myself, and I guess I should be glad I never did.

  • 3. I don't like Sonic's friends

    I can deal with Tails and Knuckles, but when Sonic games began revolving as much around Sonic's shitty friends as Sonic himself, that's when it kinda turned to shit. Characters like Rogue McBatTits, Shadow, Suck the Cock, Big, Silver, Cream etc. just aren't needed. Keep the character gallery simple, and don't stuff in shitty characters no one are asking for or wanting.

  • 4. 2D Sonic is the only good Sonic

    Generations was good, Unleashed's daytime levels were good, and the first Adventure was decent. 3D Sonic games can be good, but overall the old 8-bit/16-bit games are much better than 3D Sonic games. And not all 2D Sonics are good anyway, Sonic Blast, Sonic Advance 2 and 3 and Sonic Labyrinth are all bad games.

What does Sonic Team need to do next?

Keep refining the Generations formula, and stay away from the awful epic stories and shitty friends.
 
Lord-Audie said:
My issue with sonic is that I grew past 13.
Is not relevant to me anymore.
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Agreed.

Only violence, blood, gore, suggestive themes, simulated gambling, sexual content and strong language are relevant to a grown man. Everything else is at most E10+.

I mean, if a child is allowed to play it, why should I, right?
 
Combichristoffersen said:
snip
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I agree with a lot of this, actually. I may not be as harsh or blunt, but I have some of the same issues with the series that you do. That rough patch that you described with Adventure and post-Adventure up to 2006 was where I was less enthusiastic about the series in general because a lot of the stuff they employed wasn't to my liking much. I've said my piece about the story, but I didn't like the mechanics in Shadow as the game was boring and not fun to play. Heroes made me nauseous and Neo Metal Sonic... well, I didn't like how that whole thing went in general. As for Sonic 2006, it was awful.

Unleashed, Colours, and Generations at least finally delivered stuff I had lots of fun with. And that's all I really want. I want to lose myself in the presentation of the games (which is really what drew me to Sonic in the first place--the music, the art direction, the abundance of colour, etc. I loved it all when I was little), while having lots of fun going through the levels. I want to start the game almost immediately and start dismantling Robotnik's schemes level-by-level, piece-by-piece. Neither of the three aforementioned games are perfect, but they're good starts to develop into something even better.

Combichristoffersen said:
Generations was good, Unleashed's daytime levels were good, and the first Adventure was decent. 3D Sonic games can be good, but overall the old 8-bit/16-bit games are much better than 3D Sonic games. And not all 2D Sonics are good anyway, Sonic Blast, Sonic Advance 2 and 3 and Sonic Labyrinth are all bad games.
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Don't remind me. :/

FzkIN.png


Why.

Sciz said:
Michael Jackson's dead, man.
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Blunt as ever, I see.
 
I have not played any of the modern Sonic games.

The last one I actually played through was Sonic Adventure, and I loved the hell out of that game when it was first released. I just wish the camera was as competent as Super Mario 64, and that the side characters were ditched in favor of a longer quest with Sonic.

After playing a demo of Sonic Generations (and watching Youtube of Black Knight and Colors) I guess my issue with modern Sonic is:

If it's 3D, I want the ability to fully explore my surroundings, with the option to run through it if I wish... I don't want running through an entire level 97% of the time, passing everything.


What does Sonic Team need to do next?

For the next 3D adventure, they need to work along side Nintendo EAD, or seek guidance to properly bring platforming to a 3D environment without needing to shift to a 2D plane (and work on a good camera system). I like 2D platforming, but not when it jumps back and forth in the same level.

Also, they need a fully realized world... not just pretty scenery that goes by in a blur (and I don't necessarily mean a sandbox format either). For instance, I'd love to see a vast mountain range and lake nearby like a majestic location from Skyrim: be able to just walk along the side of the lake and look for a bridge, or dive in it and hunt for treasure in a sunken boat while gulping bubbles of O2, or choose to run across the lake... skipping atop the water at super sonic speed.
 
I had problems with Sonic based on the quality of his games not his fanbase. I love Generations and Colors and will buy the next 2d title.

My only real problem is how much space his franchise takes up in Sumo's racing game
 
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