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[PantherLotus]

Jesus. The Romney campaign is a mess. All they can do is react, react, react. I never thought I'd see such an amateur hour performance from a modern GOP presidential campaign. Before Obama, this is the kind of stuff you'd expect from the Dems.

I think you're forgetting just how bad McCain's camp was. This is the man that unleashed Palin on the world, grimaced literally every time he was on stage, called the black guy "that one," and in the ultimate act of terrible political decision making, put his campaign "on pause" to pretend to be relevant as the economy was crashing around the world.

We're observing the results of the Bush/Cheney legacy, possibly the worst Presidency and most damaging occupation of the White House of the last century -- and that includes Hoover, Harding, and Nixon.

Republicans will spend the next two decades like it didn't happen. In the meantime, their politics will functionally identical and their demos will drop through the fucking floor as they all die off and are overcome by non-white non-Christians.

 

[makingmusic476]

I may disagree with Libertarians on just about everything, but I'd rather they be more prominent in the national scene than the current republicans.

Hell, I wish we could have more parties get more attention. Allow the Green Party and Libertarian Party or whoever to receive as much attention as the Democrats and Republicans. I don't see that happening anytime soon, though.




LOL Being “sole stockholder, chairman of the board, chief executive officer, and president” of Bain and owning 100% of it through 2002 is nothing more than a technicality and a quirk in the law, guys!

FPTP

I keep seeing people say "Maybe X party will be popular some day. It'll take years, though."

No.

It's not gonna happen until we get rid of fucking FPTP. All this vague "maybe we'll get there someday" optimism ain't gonna do shit. We need to replace FPTP. And the increased presence of corporate money in politics and the lack of any major events like half the country seceding ensures the two behemoths created by FPTP will be staying in power until FPTP is thrown out the window.

This needs to become the most important issues on the table. This should be something everyone can agree upon, given how much of the country hate the candidates they vote for, let alone the ones they don't vote for.

And get rid of the electoral college while we're at it.

 

[Aaron Strife]

FPTP

I keep seeing people say "Maybe X party will be popular some day. It'll take years, though."

No.

It's not gonna happen until we get rid of fucking FPTP. All this vague "maybe we'll get there someday" optimism ain't gonna do shit. We need to replace FPTP. And the increased presence of corporate money in politics and the lack of any major events like half the country seceding ensures the two behemoths created by FPTP will be staying in power until FPTP is thrown out the window.

This needs to become the most important issues on the table. This should be something everyone can agree upon, given how much of the country hate the candidates they vote for, let alone the ones they don't vote for.

And get rid of the electoral college while we're at it.

We just started ranked-choice voting in Minneapolis, but it's such a liberal city it doesn't really matter. Still, the Green Party actually has a decent city-wide presence and will probably only grow now.

 

[Aaron Strife]

From the Pew poll that has Obama leading Romney 50-43:

Obama leading Romney on 10 out of 12 major issues. Romney's advantages are in handling the deficit (important?) and improving the job situation (okay yeah important), but he only has a small edge on that one.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

FPTP

I keep seeing people say "Maybe X party will be popular some day. It'll take years, though."

No.

It's not gonna happen until we get rid of fucking FPTP. All this vague "maybe we'll get there someday" optimism ain't gonna do shit. We need to replace FPTP. And the increased presence of corporate money in politics and the lack of any major events like half the country seceding ensures the two behemoths created by FPTP will be staying in power until FPTP is thrown out the window.

This needs to become the most important issues on the table. This should be something everyone can agree upon, given how much of the country hate the candidates they vote for, let alone the ones they don't vote for.

And get rid of the electoral college while we're at it.

I hope not I'm happy the system keeps out the loonie third parties. I don't want some American version of Golden Dawn or the Comminist Party being able to impact policy.

 

[Averon]

I just think that the Romney campaign was totally caught off guard by how aggressive the Obama team is going after him. I think they thought they could ride off the anti-Obama sentiment and SuperPACs into victory without doing a lot of legwork.

 

[GaimeGuy]

We just started ranked-choice voting in Minneapolis, but it's such a liberal city it doesn't really matter. Still, the Green Party actually has a decent city-wide presence and will probably only grow now.

We also have 3 (sometimes 4) viable parties, which I'm not sure any other state can claaim.

Ranked Choice Voting is thanks to the efforts of the Independence Party and FairVote Minnesota.

 

[Aaron Strife]

I hope not I'm happy the system keeps out the loonie third parties. I don't want some American version of Golden Dawn or the Comminist Party being able to impact policy.

I think we would do fine with 3-4 major parties. With the two party system everything essentially becomes a proxy battle between conflicting special interests (i.e. pro-environmentalist groups line up with the Democrats, so big business goes with Republicans).

There'd still be corruption I'm sure, but it might require politicians to find more nuance in their policy views rather than copypasta'ing the national platform. Gotta form a coalition somehow.

We also have 3 (sometimes 4) viable parties, which I'm not sure any other state can claaim.

Ranked Choice Voting is thanks to the efforts of the Independence Party and FairVote Minnesota.

Independence party does better here than most third parties but I dunno if I'd call a party viable if they don't win any elections. They do have some pull I guess.

 

[reilo]

Obama is +12 in dealing with national defense? Wow.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

I think we would do fine with 3-4 major parties. With the two party system everything essentially becomes a proxy battle between conflicting special interests (i.e. pro-environmentalist groups line up with the Democrats, so big business goes with Republicans).

There'd still be corruption I'm sure, but it might require politicians to find more nuance in their policy views rather than copypasta'ing the national platform. Gotta form a coalition somehow.

I just don't want the deadlock associated with coilaition government building, though thankfully, it would only effect legisllative voting alliances as opposed to government formation. I could live other parties, but I have a feeling that would be the Green and/or Libertierian party, which I think I could easily live without. I just not want a small nut party to be able to exercise undue influence on the legislative process.

 

[TacticalFox88]

From the Pew poll that has Obama leading Romney 50-43:

Obama leading Romney on 10 out of 12 major issues. Romney's advantages are in handling the deficit (important?) and improving the job situation (okay yeah important), but he only has a small edge on that one.

"Dealing with the problems of poor people."

Who the FUCK are the people who put Romney?!

 

[ezekial45]

I wonder if all those people who pumped all that cash into Romney are starting to have regrets.

 

[makingmusic476]

I just don't want the deadlock associated with coilaition government building, though thankfully, it would only effect legisllative voting alliances as opposed to government formation. I could live other parties, but I have a feeling that would be the Green and/or Libertierian party, which I think I could easily live without. I just not want a small nut party to be able to exercise undue influence on the legislative process.

I do think that those two parties would become major contenders alongside the Democrats and Republicans, with a number of Democrats and Republicans switching to those parties as well (Ron/Rand Paul, some Tea Partiers moving Libertarian, single-payer proponents moving to Green).

I'd probably vote Green in most cases.

"Dealing with the problems of poor people."

Who the FUCK are the people who put Romney?!

"The wealth will trickle down."

 

[Aaron Strife]

Obama is +12 in dealing with national defense? Wow.

Wonder what could have caused that.

Yet Romney's campaign wants to make that a liability roflcoptors

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

I do think that those two parties would become major contenders alongside the Democrats and Republicans, with a number of Democrats and Republicans switching to those parties as well (Ron/Rand Paul, some Tea Partiers moving Libertarian, single-payer proponents moving to Green).

I'd prefer to keep them bottled up. Could you imagine if they had success in local or state elections? Imagine living or traveling somewhere based with a Ron Paul based government. Pray you aren't in a car accident and need medicinal attention.

I'd probably vote Green in most cases.

No way those Green assholes in Europe screwed up in West Germany when they got elected and wound up letting the Soviets invade us back during the 1980s.

 

[makingmusic476]

I'd prefer to keep them bottled up. Could you imagine if they had success in local or state elections? Imagine living or traveling somewhere based with a Ron Paul based government. Pray you aren't in a car accident and need medicinal attention.

I think having more variety in elected officials and a more representative government will have a positive impact on people's perceptions of government's effectiveness, thus the libertarians will gradually decrease in number.

(Edited for better phrasing.)

 

[Al-ibn Kermit]

Romney/Rice would be... err.. wow.

I could see it being abbreviated as "ruh-roh".

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

I think having more variety in elected officials and a more representative government will have a positive impact on the idea that "government doesn't work", and the libertarians will gradually decrease in number.

First please look at the my full reply...I thought it was slight humorous, but I didn't edit it quick enough before you posted. Lol

In response to your main point (and in edited form too), I think it will produce gridlock more in terms of legislating and more departmental Turf wars, but that's just my own personal feeling. I don't think it will convince people of it being effective, but the opposite. I also worry about places where populations could allow for a town controlled by people want decide to form their own defense force to "protect the border" being able to get a slate elected.

 

[pigeon]

From the Pew poll that has Obama leading Romney 50-43:

Obama leading Romney on 10 out of 12 major issues. Romney's advantages are in handling the deficit (important?) and improving the job situation (okay yeah important), but he only has a small edge on that one.

I'm actually amazed that Romney is losing to Obama at "general economic improvement." If he only has 4 points in jobs and is underwater on the economy in general, his campaign is really fucked, because that's literally his only messaging right now.

I also like how they prefer Obama in every aspect of government spending, and on taxes, but Romney on the deficit.

"Dealing with the problems of poor people."

Who the FUCK are the people who put Romney?!

Rich people.

 

[PantherLotus]

I'm actually amazed that Romney is losing to Obama at "general economic improvement." If he only has 4 points in jobs and is underwater on the economy in general, his campaign is really fucked, because that's literally his only messaging right now.

That's because the economy is improving.

 

[GhaleonEB]

So, Romney's argument for what happened at Bain from 1999 to 2001 is that, despite being the CEO, owner and Chairman of the Board, the buck did not stop with him, but with some guys he says he delegated decisions to. That's going to be an interesting argument to make when running for President.

I really don't see this going away.

 

[PhoenixDark]

So, Romney's argument for what happened at Bain from 1999 to 2001 is that, despite being the CEO, owner and Chairman of the Board, the buck did not stop with him, but with some guys he says he delegated decisions to. That's going to be an interesting argument to make when running for President.

I really don't see this going away.

Again, a CEO of a company gets all the blame when shit hits the fan because they are responsible for their company, fair or unfair. That's how corporations work.

No wonder they seemingly leaked the Rice trial balloon

 

[GhaleonEB]

Again, a CEO of a company gets all the blame when shit hits the fan because they are responsible for their company, fair or unfair. That's how corporations work.

No wonder they seemingly leaked the Rice trial balloon

Pretty much.

I like how Josh Marshall put it earlier today.

Running my own little company and him being a bona-fide high-flyer, I never imagined I’d be in a position to teach Mitt Romney a basic lesson about corporate governance and running a business. But here goes: The CEO is in charge and he’s responsible for what happens in the company.

This is not only morally true; it’s legally true. If Bain had committed bad acts during the period in question, Romney would undoubtedly be on the hook for it, regardless of whether he’d done the bad acts personally or even known about the bad acts. Whether you were paying attention or not would be and is irrelevant. And just as irrelevant if you’d delegated your responsibilities to someone else. Just doesn’t matter. You’re CEO, you’re responsible. End of story.

I just don't see much wiggle room. "I owned and was in charge of the company but wasn't involved, informed or accountable," just won't fly. If/when this shows up in a debate Obama just needs to connect the dots, and it will be ugly.

 

[PantherLotus]

This is getting hilarious and kinda sad, guys.

 

[GhaleonEB]

This is getting hilarious and kinda sad, guys.

I've been out of the loop for the better part of a month, while on vacation. Was it this entertaining during that time, or did Romney ramp it up for my sake now that I'm back?

 

[Aaron Strife]

I'm actually amazed that Romney is losing to Obama at "general economic improvement." If he only has 4 points in jobs and is underwater on the economy in general, his campaign is really fucked, because that's literally his only messaging right now.

I also like how they prefer Obama in every aspect of government spending, and on taxes, but Romney on the deficit.

It's just a factor of deficit being a GOP buzzword.

I've been out of the loop for the better part of a month, while on vacation. Was it this entertaining during that time, or did Romney ramp it up for my sake now that I'm back?

Romney made a speech at the NAACP telling them to vote for Obama, and then lied about working at Bain. Also Condi Rice is his VP maybe.

 

[PantherLotus]

I've been out of the loop for the better part of a month, while on vacation. Was it this entertaining during that time, or did Romney ramp it up for my sake now that I'm back?

If you've been out of the loop, here's what you missed:

1. Week 1 - meh job numbers. Romney is about to respond, when
2. BAIN CAPITAL ATTACK

3. Week 2 - meh job numbers. Romney is about to respond, then
4. OBAMA DREAM ACT

5. Week 3 - meh job numbers. Romney is about to respond, when
6. ROMNEY OUTSOURCER/OFF-SHORER ATTACK

7. Week 4 - meh job numbers. Romney is about to respond, then
8. HOLY FUCK OBAMACARE UPHELD WTF KC BBQ

9. Week 5 - meh job numbers. Romney is about to respond, when
10. ROMNEY CAUGHT LYING ABOUT BAIN TENURE

In between, he got booed at the NAACP (but applauded for a nice effort!), lost his #1 VP pick with Rubio after the DREAM act rug was pulled out from under him, Romney's camp actually tried to differentiate between off-shoring and out-sourcing, Romney's taxes have become the topic de jour (you bet your ass he's hiding something), Swiss Bank Accounts, and he/his campaign couldn't figure out if it agreed that the ACA mandate is a tax or a penalty (he's argued both, of course), so he just went with the standard "repeal and replace" with no examples of what he'd replace it with, and in the meantime ... deep breath ... the House voted to hold Holder in contempt, something to do with abortion, again, and they voted to repeal ACA, again ... and all of this occurring amidst the backdrop of a steadily improving economy (meh + meh + meh = eh?) and a sudden swing of popular opinion in favor of Obamacare now that the SCOTUS has ruled in favor of the mandate.

Catch all that?

 

[PantherLotus]

And gas prices are dropping.

 

[TacticalFox88]

Yep, Romney's political career is pretty much over after he loses badly to Obama as the GOP turns FULLY against him.

I almost feel sorry for the poor bastard. Almost.

 

[makingmusic476]

This Romney shit is hilarious.

And I will DIE LAUGHING if gas hits $2.50 a gallon before the election.

Edit: I've seen $2.91 gas a couple of places around here, but apparently things aren't going so well in the North and West.

 

[PantherLotus]

$3.23-$3.30 here in KC.

 

[Flying_Phoenix]

^Fuck you guys!

 

[PantherLotus]

I think I forgot to mention Romney's swanky fundraisers, one in the Hamptons where guests complained that the poors just don't understand, and another in a Wisconsin country club with Dick Fucking I kid you not Dick Fucking Cheney. That's been amusing.

At this point I think serious conservatives (both of them) have every reason to believe the Romney camp will panic and do something stupid with the VP pick. They're fucking up every chance to nail Obama on jobs because they just can't get ahead of the cycle. Every fucking week!

BTW: tomorrow's Friday, right? Expect a new Obama attack.

 

[Suikoguy]

That was quite the amusing recap.

 

[Diablos]

From the Pew poll that has Obama leading Romney 50-43:

Obama leading Romney on 10 out of 12 major issues. Romney's advantages are in handling the deficit (important?) and improving the job situation (okay yeah important), but he only has a small edge on that one.

When do you ever ask questions about something like that? Of course it's important. You know it is. But it's inconvenient because it underscores that Obama has a fight ahead of him.

Do these people not realize that improving economic conditions is part of what can allow for "TEH JOBS SITUATION OMG" to get better?

Honestly, despite Obama's many strengths over Romney here, this election is going to be about the economy and jobs. So Mittens has a slight upper hand in a sea of stuff that ranges from insignificant to "um, important to me, but maybe not for another two years when Mitt would still be President if he got elected by we, the ignorant voting populace, who are too stupid/lazy to come to this realization."

Reducing the federal budget deficit also plays into the GOP's narrative of eliminating wasteful spending/programs/blah blah so they can "focus on jobs" or whatever. And he has a commanding lead there...

 

[TomServo]

That's because the economy is improving.

Do you really believe that?

Maybe I just read too much ZeroHedge.

 

[Oblivion]

You know, with all this talk about outsourcing, and stories like that Facebook guy who's not that one nerdy looking dude renouncing his citizenship to avoid paying taxes, I'd like someone in the media to ask this question: The right wing are known to have an immense degree of patriotism, and as such, should they support the idea of the government mandating that they keep all jobs located in the U.S.?

In other words, outlaw outsourcing? If one loves their country so much, is it really asking that much to take a hit on their bottom line?

 

[SouthernDragon]

You know, with all this talk about outsourcing, and stories like that Facebook guy who's not that one nerdy looking dude renouncing his citizenship to avoid paying taxes, I'd like someone in the media to ask this question: The right wing are known to have an immense degree of patriotism, and as such, should they support the idea of the government mandating that they keep all jobs located in the U.S.?

In other words, outlaw outsourcing? If one loves their country so much, is it really asking that much to take a hit on their bottom line?

BUT MY FREEDOM TO OUTSOURCE MUST REMAIN INTACT FOR COMPETITIVE REASONS COMMIE

 

[Al-ibn Kermit]

You know, with all this talk about outsourcing, and stories like that Facebook guy who's not that one nerdy looking dude renouncing his citizenship to avoid paying taxes, I'd like someone in the media to ask this question: The right wing are known to have an immense degree of patriotism, and as such, should they support the idea of the government mandating that they keep all jobs located in the U.S.?

In other words, outlaw outsourcing? If one loves their country so much, is it really asking that much to take a hit on their bottom line?

It's impossible to outlaw outsourcing in a globalized economy. Company A would just fire their current employees and hire a foreign company B to do the same jobs (ie: call centers/manufacturing). Those foreign employees wouldn't be on A's payroll, but of course the effect would be the same.

 

[Oblivion]

It's impossible to outlaw outsourcing in a globalized economy. Company A would just fire their current employees and hire a foreign company B to do the same jobs (ie: call centers/manufacturing). Those foreign employees wouldn't be on A's payroll, but of course the effect would be the same.

Wait, how does that work. If an American company hires a foreign company, isn't that itself outsourcing?

 

[GhaleonEB]

If you've been out of the loop, here's what you missed:

*snip*

Catch all that?

.....

I suppose I should have seen this coming after it took Romney months to beat off the brutal challengers of Newt Gingrich and Rick Santorum, but damn. He's even worse than I thought. (Thanks for the recap.)

 

[gcubed]

.....

I suppose I should have seen this coming after it took Romney months to beat off the brutal challengers of Newt Gingrich and Rick Santorum, but damn. He's even worse than I thought. (Thanks for the recap.)

The best part was 2 days of Romney and co saying the mandate was not a tax after the SCOTUS ruling.

I actually have a small part of me that looks forward to bad news to see how bad Romney can fuck up.

 

[TomServo]

You know, with all this talk about outsourcing, and stories like that Facebook guy who's not that one nerdy looking dude renouncing his citizenship to avoid paying taxes, I'd like someone in the media to ask this question: The right wing are known to have an immense degree of patriotism, and as such, should they support the idea of the government mandating that they keep all jobs located in the U.S.?

In other words, outlaw outsourcing? If one loves their country so much, is it really asking that much to take a hit on their bottom line?

El oh el

 

[Loudninja]

Cheney: Romney The ‘Only’ Man For Foreign Policy

"When I think about the kind of individual I want in the Oval Office in that moment of crisis, who has to make those key decisions, some of them life-and-death decisions, some of them decisions as commander-in-chief, who has the responsibility for sending some of our young men and women into harm's way, that man is Mitt Romney," Cheney said to applause.

http://www.independentmail.com/news/2012/jul/13/cheney-romney-only-man-foreign-policy/

 

[rSpooky]

Cheney: Romney The ‘Only’ Man For Foreign Policy

http://www.independentmail.com/news/2012/jul/13/cheney-romney-only-man-foreign-policy/

It is just simple "insert name of you candidate here" . I really dont believe he really feels that way .

 

[Tamanon]

I think the Romney campaign hasn't realized that the argument they're trying to make for the Bain stuff is a HORRIBLE argument if you're running for President. Nobody wants a leader who just wants the title and none of the responsibility.

 

[Amir0x]

Romney Testified He Maintained Business Ties During Olympics

Mitt Romney testified to Massachusetts officials in 2002 that he maintained business ties during his Olympics work, undermining his argument that he had no connection to Bain Capital or related companies after 1999. Notably, his campaign has refused to deny whether or not he ever held meetings with Bain during his time in Salt Lake City.

Romney, who at the time was trying to convince the state Ballot Law Commission that he should be allowed to run for office in Massachusetts despite living in Utah the last three years, did not directly address his work with Bain Capital. But, in testimony obtained by the Huffington Post, Romney said that he returned home for “a number of social trips and business trips that brought me back to Massachusetts, board meetings, Thanksgiving and so forth.”

Romney noted that he remained an active member of the board at Staples, where Bain was an early investor and a company Romney frequently cites on the trail, and LifeLike, a toy company where Bain was heavily invested at the time.

A spokesman for the Romney campaign declined to answer questions from Politico regarding whether Romney attended any meetings in person or phone with Bain during his Olympic leave, saying only that he had no “active role.”

Democrats claim Romney should be held responsible for deals Bain conducted from 1999-2001 in which companies either went bankrupt or profited from outsourcing. Romney was listed in numerous SEC filings as sole stockholder, CEO, and chairman of the board of Bain Capital and related firms during that period and his “principal occupation” was listed as a “managing director,” but Romney has insisted he had no day-to-day role during the period.

This week is fun

 

[The Technomancer]

If you've been out of the loop, here's what you missed:

1. Week 1 - meh job numbers. Romney is about to respond, when
2. BAIN CAPITAL ATTACK

3. Week 2 - meh job numbers. Romney is about to respond, then
4. OBAMA DREAM ACT

5. Week 3 - meh job numbers. Romney is about to respond, when
6. ROMNEY OUTSOURCER/OFF-SHORER ATTACK

7. Week 4 - meh job numbers. Romney is about to respond, then
8. HOLY FUCK OBAMACARE UPHELD WTF KC BBQ

9. Week 5 - meh job numbers. Romney is about to respond, when
10. ROMNEY CAUGHT LYING ABOUT BAIN TENURE

Catch all that?

When you put it like that the last month has been amazing.

 

[gcubed]

Romney Testified He Maintained Business Ties During Olympics



This week is fun

Seriously if your a Republican all you could do at this point is just laugh


At this point there is less harm in coming out and saying you had a small role instead of doubling down

 

[GhaleonEB]

Romney Testified He Maintained Business Ties During Olympics

This week is fun

I just can't get over reading shit like this.

Democrats claim Romney should be held responsible for deals Bain conducted from 1999-2001 in which companies either went bankrupt or profited from outsourcing. Romney was listed in numerous SEC filings as sole stockholder, CEO, and chairman of the board of Bain Capital and related firms during that period and his “principal occupation” was listed as a “managing director,” but Romney has insisted he had no day-to-day role during the period.

And he's still, somehow, denying any responsibility. Romney is actually saying he was not responsible for what the company did when it was his company. And he wants to be President.

I realize I've beaten this to death by now, but my mind is full of fuck.