PoliGAF 2012 Community Thread |OT2| This thread title is now under military control

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So, Romney's argument for what happened at Bain from 1999 to 2001 is that, despite being the CEO, owner and Chairman of the Board, the buck did not stop with him, but with some guys he says he delegated decisions to. That's going to be an interesting argument to make when running for President.

I really don't see this going away.

He was organizing the Winter Olympics. He was no longer controlling the daily functions of the company. Legally speaking, perhaps he should still be held accountable for it. I don't think that would be the right thing to do given that he wasn't personally involved from what we can tell.
 
He was organizing the Winter Olympics. He was no longer controlling the daily functions of the company. Legally speaking, perhaps he should still be held accountable for it. I don't think that would be the right thing to do given that he wasn't personally involved from what we can tell.

CEOs don't control the daily functioning of the company to begin with. But they are responsible for the company. Not just in terms of semantics or title, but legally. He can delegate all he wants, but he's the guy in charge. The notion that he can own and be the head of a company - while still drawing a salary from it - and deny any knowledge or responsibility for what it did for three years is simply ludicrous.
 
I just can't get over reading shit like this.


And he's still, somehow, denying any responsibility. Romney is actually saying he was not responsible for what the company did when it was his company. And he wants to be President.

I realize I've beaten this to death by now, but my mind is full of fuck.

Really, what is there to beat to death? This is here and now, it's important, and we get more stories for the narrative every hour.

Listen, I have a lot of problems with Obama. He has disappointed me in many significant ways, and the motivation for me to vote for him is really maintaining the tenuous "balance" on the Supreme Court.

But, even if that motivation didn't exist, how could I vote for Romney? How could anyone?

TO date, he has pretty much universally failed to say how he'd fix any of the issues he claims Obama is doing wrong.

TO date, he has changed his stance on virtually every topic known to man

SuperVenn.jpg


He has used his time at Bain as the reason he'd be able to turn the economy around, and now he's telling us he has no responsibility for three years of the company when he remained CEO, etc. He used his time at Bain to say he cares about the American people, yet it outsourced jobs continually, shuttered companies that otherwise would have survived to make a few extra pennies. He uses his success as proof of the American dream, yet ships his money into off shore tax havens where he can avoid paying his fair share. His one real genuine accomplishment in public service is the Individual Mandate health care directive in Massachusetts, which he now goes around all day long trying to suggest is the worst thing ever in history for the country. He continually tries to say Obama is out of touch, then he shows up on a jetski and gets booed at the NAACP for saying stupid shit. He continually tries to paint Obama as a liar on transparency, and yet he refuses to release anything but the most paltry # of tax returns.


What exactly are the Romney supporters voting for really except that they so irrationally hate Obama as to be willing to vote for an inanimate object at this point?
 
CEOs don't control the daily functioning of the company to begin with. But they are responsible for the company. Not just in terms of semantics or title, but legally. He can delegate all he wants, but he's the guy in charge. The notion that he can own and be the head of a company - while still drawing a salary from it - and deny any knowledge or responsibility for what it did for three years is simply ludicrous.

But that's just it - it's really not that ludicrous. Having worked in private equity myself, I know that even the top managers of the firm actually have limited discussion with the CEO. Bain was obviously doing well enough into 1999 that Romney decided he utilize his time to a less streneous occupation for a couple of years while his managers ensured a heatlhy return for the firm.

It's a bit ridiculous to compare a private citizen and head of a company to the President of the United States. There's no reason for Romney to take responsibility for anything he didn't personally partake in. In fact, it's unreasonable for us to expect that unless we have damning evidence of his complicity, and if we don't then we probably shouldn't lump him in the same category as those who were complicit.
 
But that's just it - it's really not that ludicrous. Having worked in private equity myself, I know that even the top managers of the firm actually have limited discussion with the CEO. Bain was obviously doing well enough into 1999 that Romney decided he utilize his time to a less streneous occupation for a couple of years while his managers ensured a heatlhy return for the firm.

It's a bit ridiculous to compare a private citizen and head of a company to the President of the United States. There's no reason for Romney to take responsibility for anything he didn't personally partake in. In fact, it's unreasonable for us to expect that unless we have damning evidence of his complicity, and if we don't then we probably shouldn't lump him in the same category as those who were complicit.

not only is Romney completely responsible for everything that went down during those three years in a logical basis, but Romney is legally responsible for anything and everything that went down during those three years. Do you not understand the problem here? Romney could say he was just not doing anything with Bain (even though the evidence now shows this is demonstrably false), but it wouldn't matter - the only thing this suggests is that Romney was grossly irresponsible on top of being wrong. All of this should be very important to someone running for President.
 
I guess the Bain messaging is very effective despite what Bubba and Super Booker think. No other reason for Romney to twist himself up in knots denying what Republicans usually brag about.
 
Team Obama has mastered the Republican art of defining your opponent.

For decades, Republicans have mastered it and have defined many Democrat candidates like Dukakis, Gore and Kerry

Team Obama is giving Romney a taste of their own medicine

don't hate the player, hate the game
 
not only is Romney completely responsible for everything that went down during those three years in a logical basis, but Romney is legally responsible for anything and everything that went down during those three years. Do you not understand the problem here? Romney could say he was just not doing anything with Bain (even though the evidence now shows this is demonstrably false), but it wouldn't matter - the only thing this suggests is that Romney was grossly irresponsible on top of being wrong. All of this should be very important to someone running for President.

Is he legally liable as the CEO? Yes. But if we're going to be arguing from the point-of-view of who we desire to be POTUS, then we should probably clearly distinguish between what is lawful and what is right.

We don't have enough evidence to back up the claim that Romney actually presided over any of the Bain meetings that involved questionable restructuring and financial engineering decisions. Nevertheless, some feel that, as CEO, the onus falls on him to ensure a more responsible and ethical company. That's a complicated one - the nature of Wall Street's culture extends far and beyond one CEO. It's unreasonable to expect Romney to be that one person just as it's unreasonable for us to expect that the President can stop his staff from conducting backroom deals to maintain his agenda. Washington has a culture, and it isn't clean.

Not that two wrongs make a right, but when the wrong can't be righted by a single person, you shouldn't hold it against him.

Employees working in organizations within fastly changing environments have an individual responsibility, and the head of the company can only do so much in ensuring ethical decisions are made.

I don't think Romney is a saint, just as I don't think the POTUS can be one, given the types of decisions that ultimately reach him. If anything, we know that heads of organizations sometimes turn a blind eye towards certain achievements. If we can agree that that is the case, then the Bain kerfluffle is nothing out of the ordinary.
 
Pretty much.

I like how Josh Marshall put it earlier today.


I just don't see much wiggle room. "I owned and was in charge of the company but wasn't involved, informed or accountable," just won't fly. If/when this shows up in a debate Obama just needs to connect the dots, and it will be ugly.

If you only saw the irony in posting this, being an Obama supporter.

Here you go: "Why doesn't Obama take responsibility for whoever said he was Kenyan while promoting his book?"

You're welcome.

LOL, you can just post for me from now on.




Oh, and on Rice being the possible VP nomination, I think that would scare Dems shitless. I'm not saying she doesn't have baggage from being in the Bush admin, but to see her debate Biden would be glorious.
 
Romney Testified He Maintained Business Ties During Olympics



This week is fun
oh oh a update!
UPDATE: 9:15 p.m. -- The Romney campaign responded by focusing on Romney's involvement with Bain itself, and argued that the state Ballot Law Commission validated the argument that Romney was not involved in day-to-day Bain matters.

"After extensive hearings the Ballot Law Commission came to the same conclusion as numerous independent fact checkers in finding that Mitt Romney ended his active employment with Bain Capital in 1999," said Romney spokeswoman Amanda Henneberg. "Every public judgment, including a unanimous one from the Ballot Law Commission, has confirmed this fact."

Henneberg called the controversy over Romney's employment at Bain "just another distraction from a desperate campaign that is willing to say anything to divert attention from President Obama’s failed record in office.”

However, the purpose of the Ballot Law Commission inquiry was to determine Romney's residency, not whether he had done any part-time work on behalf of Bain. Indeed, in two days of testimony, the Democratic lawyer didn't question Romney about his role at Bain, as the issue wasn't a live one. That question only arose in recent years when Romney categorically denied any active involvement with Bain.

In addition, the Romney campaign's response does not address whether by sitting on LifeLike's board until 2001, Romney's 2011 disclosure form statement that he had "not been involved in the operations of any Bain Capital entity in any way" was false.

Hehehe.
 
But that's just it - it's really not that ludicrous. Having worked in private equity myself, I know that even the top managers of the firm actually have limited discussion with the CEO. Bain was obviously doing well enough into 1999 that Romney decided he utilize his time to a less streneous occupation for a couple of years while his managers ensured a heatlhy return for the firm.

It's a bit ridiculous to compare a private citizen and head of a company to the President of the United States. There's no reason for Romney to take responsibility for anything he didn't personally partake in. In fact, it's unreasonable for us to expect that unless we have damning evidence of his complicity, and if we don't then we probably shouldn't lump him in the same category as those who were complicit.

As CEO, Mitt Romney was the chief executive of Bain. That's what the letters stand for. Chief Executive Officer.

As President, Mitt Romney would be the chief executive of the US federal government. Its day to day operations are his responsibility.

He would also be the supreme commander of the US Armed Forces.

He is responsible, and part of being a leader is acknowledging and accepting responsibility, even when the problem occurs due to someone else's actions.

Barack Obama said:
"I know Washington's all in a tizzy and everybody's pointing fingers at each other and saying it's their fault, the Democrats' fault, the Republicans' fault. Listen, I will take responsibility. I'm the president," Obama said Wednesday at the town hall meeting in Costa Mesa, California.

"We didn't draft these contracts," he said. "We've got a lot on our plate. But it is appropriate when you're in charge to make sure stuff doesn't happen like this. So for everybody in Washington who's busy scrambling to try to figure out how to blame somebody else, just go ahead and talk to me, because it's my job to fix these messes even if I don't make them."

That is what it means to be the president/ceo, whether it be for a private firm or for the federal government.

George Bush knew this. Barack Obama knew this. I know this. You know this. Why doesn't Mitt Romney know this?

If he can't accept responsibility for what happened at Bain Capital when he was director, president, and ceo, he shouldn't have been given those positions in the first place, and he certainly shouldn't be POTUS.
 
People thinking this current line of Bain attack is going to stick in anyway is downright hilarious. Do people think Obama is really going to convince the electorate Romney was somehow responsible for outsourcing (and so what) by implying he was tacitly involved with Bain after 1999 when Romney will just go "Dude, you sent $30B of American taxpayer money directly overseas in your stimulus package."


As CEO, Mitt Romney was the chief executive of Bain. That's what the letters stand for. Chief Executive Officer.

As President, Mitt Romney would be the chief executive of the US federal government. Its day to day operations are his responsibility.

He is responsible, and part of being a leader is acknowledging and accepting responsibility, even when the problem occurs due to someone else's actions.


That is what it means to be the president/ceo, whether it be for a private firm or for the federal government.

George Bush knew this. Barack Obama knew this. I know this. You know this. Why doesn't Mitt Romney know this?

If he can't accept responsibility for what happened at Bain Capital when he was director, president, and ceo, he shouldn't have been given those positions in the first place, and he certainly shouldn't be POTUS.

Are you sure Obama knows this? Have you been in a hole the last 3 years?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ic6k7SAXZAA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQb_4hXLx2Q
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yorcY31cF6k
 
http://gma.yahoo.com/gay-couple-eye...to-hate-group-180612168--abc-news-health.html

Gay Couple Eyes Lawsuit After Finding Pic on 'Hate Group' Mailer

Brian Edwards and Tom Privitere, a New Jersey couple married in 2010, were horrified when a photo of them kissing at their engagement party was altered and turned up in an anti-gay unions mailer 2,000 miles away.

The playful photo had been posted on Edwards' personal blog and was originally set against the backdrop of the New York City skyline.

But the doctored photo showed the gay couple standing in a snowy Colorado setting and was used in a political campaign to attack a Republican who supported civil union legislation.

=/
 
As CEO, Mitt Romney was the chief executive of Bain. That's what the letters stand for. Chief Executive Officer.

As President, Mitt Romney would be the chief executive of the US federal government. Its day to day operations are his responsibility.

He would also be the supreme commander of the US Armed Forces.

He is responsible, and part of being a leader is acknowledging and accepting responsibility, even when the problem occurs due to someone else's actions.



That is what it means to be the president/ceo, whether it be for a private firm or for the federal government.

George Bush knew this. Barack Obama knew this. I know this. You know this. Why doesn't Mitt Romney know this?

If he can't accept responsibility for what happened at Bain Capital when he was director, president, and ceo, he shouldn't have been given those positions in the first place, and he certainly shouldn't be POTUS.

I'm sorry but that was really fucking irresponsible of him. Instead of holding those who were involved in the scandal, he took the blame, and became the scapegoat for those who were actually responsible for making moronic decisions.

I don't want the President to be a sponge for other peoples' mistakes. I want him to try them against the might of the law if he suspects them of wrongdoing. I expect him to encourage public scrutiny on those that take advantage of their position in Washington.
 
Is he legally liable as the CEO? Yes. But if we're going to be arguing from the point-of-view of who we desire to be POTUS, then we should probably clearly distinguish between what is lawful and what is right.

We don't have enough evidence to back up the claim that Romney actually presided over any of the Bain meetings that involved questionable restructuring and financial engineering decisions. Nevertheless, some feel that, as CEO, the onus falls on him to ensure a more responsible and ethical company. That's a complicated one - the nature of Wall Street's culture extends far and beyond one CEO. It's unreasonable to expect Romney to be that one person just as it's unreasonable for us to expect that the President can stop his staff from conducting backroom deals to maintain his agenda. Washington has a culture, and it isn't clean.

Not that two wrongs make a right, but when the wrong can't be righted by a single person, you shouldn't hold it against him.

Employees working in organizations within fastly changing environments have an individual responsibility, and the head of the company can only do so much in ensuring ethical decisions are made.

I don't think Romney is a saint, just as I don't think the POTUS can be one, given the types of decisions that ultimately reach him. If anything, we know that heads of organizations sometimes turn a blind eye towards certain achievements. If we can agree that that is the case, then the Bain kerfluffle is nothing out of the ordinary.
I suppose it is fitting he venerates Reagan.
 
People thinking this current line of Bain attack is going to stick in anyway is downright hilarious. Do people think Obama is really going to convince the electorate Romney was somehow responsible for outsourcing (and so what) by implying he was tacitly involved with Bain after 1999 when Romney will just go "Dude, you sent $30B of American taxpayer money directly overseas in your stimulus package."

You really can't talk off of the generic republican script, can you?

It was the heart of Ted Kennedy's campaign against him in 1994, when Mitt lost by 17%. Mitt Romney was legally the CEO of Bain until 2002 when he said he wasn't. Mitt Romney was initally seen as a decent candidate because he had buisness experience, but the Obama campaign has spent the last few months defining him and it's been working. If it wasn't, then why are we still talking about this stuff? Mitt Romney is also incapable of responding to these attacks effectively. His campaign has been in "no u" mode since the primaries ended. Obama has been able to keep the focus on Mitt's Bain record and in swing states like Virginia and Ohio, it appears to be working since he's been consistently leading there.
 
Team Obama has mastered the Republican art of defining your opponent.

For decades, Republicans have mastered it and have defined many Democrat candidates like Dukakis, Gore and Kerry

Team Obama is giving Romney a taste of their own medicine

don't hate the player, hate the game

Completely agree.

This election just seems like a redux of 2004. Referendum on unpopular President. Milquetoast opposition candidate, who spends the entire time on defense because the incumbent effectively defines him.

The only difference I see is that while the Iraq war, circa 2004, was more emotionally polarizing than the economy is today, the sad state and direction of the economy touches more of the electorate than the war did.
 
You really can't talk off of the generic republican script, can you?

It was the heart of Ted Kennedy's campaign against him in 1994, when Mitt lost by 17%. Mitt Romney was legally the CEO of Bain until 2002 when he said he wasn't. Mitt Romney was initally seen as a decent candidate because he had buisness experience, but the Obama campaign has spent the last few months defining him and it's been working. If it wasn't, then why are we still talking about this stuff? Mitt Romney is also incapable of responding to these attacks effectively. His campaign has been in "no u" mode since the primaries ended. Obama has been able to keep the focus on Mitt's Bain record and in swing states like Virginia and Ohio, it appears to be working since he's been consistently leading there.

Because most of PoliGAF supports Obama and is a couple steps away from being a liberal echo-chamber? NONE of this matters, especially right now. If it's still being brought up in October, then fine, but I don't think Obama really wants to get into a "You're the CEO, you were responsible" when as de facto CEO of the country Obama has done shit to fix the economy and blames Bush for anything and everything. Romney will laugh in his face if brings that up in a debate.

"Mr. President, why don't you explain to the American people why you sent $30B of their money overseas?"

Completely agree.

This election just seems like a redux of 2004. Referendum on unpopular President. Milquetoast opposition candidate, who spends the entire time on defense because the incumbent effectively defines him.

And yet, as much of a douchebag as Republicans painted Kerry to be, he was a few thousand votes in Ohio away from being President.
 
Polls have consistently shown across the board that the Bain attacks are working.
Every news network continually talks about Bain, not just this "liberal echo chamber", including the nutcases at Fox News and Drudge Report
Romney has been on the defensive about Bain for months now because he sees it is working.



In Kosma Land?

'You guys are crazy if you think it's going to work'


The reason it's going to work is because from the start Romney made his time at Bain central to his argument that he'd be better for the economy. Unless Romney changes that, these attacks are going to brutalize him until election day.
 
Because most of PoliGAF supports Obama and is a couple steps away from being a liberal echo-chamber? NONE of this matters, especially right now. If it's still being brought up in October, then fine, but I don't think Obama really wants to get into a "You're the CEO, you were responsible" when as de facto CEO of the country Obama has done shit to fix the economy and blames Bush for anything and everything. Romney will laugh in his face if brings that up in a debate.

"Mr. President, why don't you explain to the American people why you sent $30B of their money overseas?"

Do you watch or read the news? Do you take in any information about this election from a source other than whatever conservative source you get these same garbage talking points from? Obama's attacks on Bain have been getting constant coverage for months. Polls show that those attacks are the most effective line against Romney. Or are you one of those "lol liberal media" types? If the "Obama sent 30b of US tax payer dollars" story was such a big deal, why isn't it getting daily coverage like Romney's Bain experience has been getting?

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/_new...obama-romney-remain-in-dead-heat?ocid=twitter

Among swing-state respondents, 18 percent say what they’ve seen and heard about Romney’s business record gives them a more positive opinion about the Republican candidate, versus 33 percent who say it’s more negative. That’s compared to the national 23-to-28 percent margin on this question.
 
http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2012/07/why-fast-food-loves-mitt-romney

He likes pizza, but insists on scraping off the cheese before he ever takes a bite. He likes fried chicken, but only when the skin has been removed. He likes Big Macs, but only after removing the middle bun. He likes Coca Cola because, he explained in his 2004, book Turnaround, it reminds him of polar bears, but he rarely drinks it because he can't have caffeine. On the trail, Romney has name-dropped Carl's Jr. and spoken of the wonders of WaWa, but subsists mainly on granola he carries around in one-gallon ziplock bags.

The granola thing is actually exactly what I pictured.
 
And yet, as much of a douchebag as Republicans painted Kerry to be, he was a few thousand votes in Ohio away from being President.

That was the point of my comparison between the hot issue in 2004 (Iraq) and 2012 (the economy).

Kerry, I mean Romney, can win, because the economy is shit, and at best is going to remain at it's current level of shit between now and November. That's a bigger deal to the average voter than the Iraq war ever was.
 
How long has it been since a Democratic presidential candidate got a narrative with traction?

"Obama definitely isn't forming a working narrative now, if that's what you're implying. I mean, come on, Solyndra, Stimulus money over seas, college transcripts!" - Kosmo
 
Do you watch or read the news? Do you take in any information about this election from a source other than whatever conservative source you get these same garbage talking points from? Obama's attacks on Bain have been getting constant coverage for months. Polls show that those attacks are the most effective line against Romney. Or are you one of those "lol liberal media" types?

Yes, I am grounded in reality, at least when it comes to MSNBC and the New York Times.


If the "Obama sent 30b of US tax payer dollars" story was such a big deal, why isn't it getting daily coverage like Romney's Bain experience has been getting?

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/_new...obama-romney-remain-in-dead-heat?ocid=twitter

Like I said, there is no payoff to make a big deal about it now. Romney's surrogates have been bringing it up on various shows, but it's not worth going full bore on until the electorate is really engaged.
 
Because most of PoliGAF supports Obama and is a couple steps away from being a liberal echo-chamber? NONE of this matters, especially right now. If it's still being brought up in October, then fine, but I don't think Obama really wants to get into a "You're the CEO, you were responsible" when as de facto CEO of the country Obama has done shit to fix the economy and blames Bush for anything and everything. Romney will laugh in his face if brings that up in a debate.

"Mr. President, why don't you explain to the American people why you sent $30B of their money overseas?"

You do understand that utilizing tax dollars for the business of the country is far different than a business man profiting off of people losing their jobs right? Most Americans expect their tax dollars to be spent either domestically or offshore. Most Americans don't expect someone to profit off the misery of their fellow Americans. They also aren't fans of larger companies moving in and closing down smaller companies.

Keep in mind, this by itself isn't a big deal. What is a big deal is everything about Romney taken together and forming a larger picture. Its called "death by a thousand cuts". Team Obama isn't landing a knock-out blow, they're just slicing the Romney campaign up bit by bit until it bleeds to death.
 
You do understand that utilizing tax dollars for the business of the country is far different than a business man profiting off of people losing their jobs right? Most Americans expect their tax dollars to be spent either domestically or offshore. Most Americans don't expect someone to profit off the misery of their fellow Americans.They also aren't fans of larger companies moving in and closing down smaller companies.
.
Really? Then again I am lawyer.
 
You do understand that utilizing tax dollars for the business of the country is far different than a business man profiting off of people losing their jobs right? Most Americans expect their tax dollars to be spent either domestically or offshore. Most Americans don't expect someone to profit off the misery of their fellow Americans. They also aren't fans of larger companies moving in and closing down smaller companies.

Keep in mind, this by itself isn't a big deal. What is a big deal is everything about Romney taken together and forming a larger picture. Its called "death by a thousand cuts". Team Obama isn't landing a knock-out blow, they're just slicing the Romney campaign up bit by bit until it bleeds to death.

Most Americans also don't expect our government to ship $30B as part of a "stimulus" to Finland and Mexico when our economy is in the shitter.
 
Most Americans also don't expect our government to ship $30B as part of a "stimulus" to Finland and Mexico when our economy is in the shitter.

lol Try going off script once. Forget the fact that what you're saying is blatantly false. You absolutely will not diverge from whatever talking point is popular among conservatives now. You remind me of a talking head on cable news, no matter what the current discussion is about, you immediately try to tie it back to the bullet points you read before going on air regardless of whether or not the subject has changed.
 
lol Try going off script once. You absolutely will not diverge from whatever talking point is popular among conservatives now. You remind me of a talking head on cable news, no matter what the current discussion is about, you immediately try to tie it back to the bullet points you read before going on air.

Pot, meet kettle.
 
Wait, how would giving money to Mexico be a bad thing? They're having serious issues right now, and anything that would have a decent chance of helping a bordering country is a good thing.
 
Ironically, I want to agree with kosmo here (minus false equivocation), I want to say that this won't do much. I mean, we are getting downright GIDDY here, and that's definately an over-reaction. At best we are talking this line of attack maybe discourages a few of romney's working class supporters, and juices up a few of Obama's far left anti corporatist supporters, and maybe it swings the needle 2/10 of a percent in a few swing states.

Then I remember how goddamn close this race is looking, and I think, okay, then, maybe this is important, but I'm not sure if it's important yet. The success of this is will really come down to a) Can obama take this beyond a personal failing of Romney, and can he turn this into an indictment of low regulation, low tax regimes, and Romney's positions on china? and B) Can he turn this into a devastating debate performance. Both of these are intertwined somewhat, because I kind of expect Obama to "Take the high road" at the debates and make this a policy issue, while the negative adds take the personal attack route.

SO I dunno, it's really early to tell if these are going to help.

I will say, I miss the Obama of 2008 who really didn't go in for the "win the day, win the week" narrative.
 
Romney is a pandering asshole. It was only a matter of time before his flip flops caught up with him.

__thumb492x347-53688.jpg


Only a matter of time.
 
I will say, I miss the Obama of 2008 who really didn't go in for the "win the day, win the week" narrative.

Running as an incumbent is a totally different beast. Obama had everything going for him in 2008 - the first sorta clean, articulate African American candidate running essentially a perfect campaign. That's a storybook, man.

It's impossible to do that the second time around, especially with this economy.
 
Romney is a pandering asshole. It was only a matter of time before his flip flops caught up with him.

__thumb492x347-53688.jpg


Only a matter of time.
Cant wait for Romney's speech infront of GLBT groups where he will say hes gonna reinstitute DADT, and then go on fox news and call them freeloaders.
 
How does it look close? We're talking about a guy who was losing to Rick Santorum and polled behind Herman Cain. He has no chance against someone who can actually campaign, much less one of the best campaigners in the past few decades.

Race is holding steady at 2-3% nationally Not to go all phoenix dark here, but that's still within the margin of error. The likely voter model is off a bit, or polltax laws have an effect and it could swing.

Yes, Obama's in the lead, and that lead will likely hold steady, but that doesn't mean it's not close.


Running as an incumbent is a totally different beast. Obama had everything going for him in 2008 - the first sorta clean, articulate African American candidate running essentially a perfect campaign. That's a storybook, man.

It's impossible to do that the second time around, especially with this economy.

Of course, and like with Obama taking superpac money, I understand why the change is happening, I still don't like either case though.
 
USA Today profile of Mitt 5 years ago when running in 2008.
First sentence...
Mitt Romney campaigns as a private-sector success story and Washington outsider who wants to bring his background as a turn-around CEO to the nation's capital.

2nd sentence is just for the :jnc
A Republican elected in Democrat-dominated Massachusetts, he also argues that his accomplishments, such as implementing a universal health care program in his state, could appeal to some Democrats should he win the 2008 GOP nomination.

Romney camp wants to repeat the business success point and in the minds of people they toss mental pennies, dimes, or quarters conscientiously or unconsciously into his fountain.
Obama camp wants to shit in his fountain and after doing that make sure it is in a high traffic area.
Not hard to understand.
 
Tangentially related to flippy flopping...

Okay random point, why don't politicians just submit that when they flip they are doing so just because they are respecting the views of their constituencies. "hey I was a politician in Mass, it has a lot of liberals, so I pursued liberal goals in a conservative manner, now I'm running to be the president of a country that's on the whole more conservative so I'm taking more conservative positions to represent those people better."

Why is that not an acceptable line of reasoning? Sure, people want to understand that the positions they vote for are the ones that the politicans will follow, but people also want a politician that will change views to suit their own if need be. Why is complete obstinance in the face of your constituencies preferences seen as some kind of good thing?
 
First it was: "I'm a successful businessman and moderate politician who can work across the aisle. Check out Romneycare!"

Then it became: "I'm a successful businessman and sooper dooper God-fearin' librul freeloader hatin' Republican. Obamacare sux!"

Now: "Obama sux!"
 
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