PoliGAF 2012 Community Thread |OT2| This thread title is now under military control

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C

cartoon_soldier

Member
PhoenixDark said:
Romney to give interviews to three major networks
http://2012.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/07/romney-cbs-nbc-abc-interviews-bain.php?ref=fpblg

Yup, all this doesn't matter, no one is paying attention, Obama is wasting time etc. Right Kosmo? :p

I can't fucking wait to see him asked the obvious question here: if you were CEO, president, and acting shareholder of a company during this disputed amount of time/years...how can you deny any and all associations?

Also what will he say when asked for more tax information
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For some reason I think these will be sweet heart interviews. Networks need it to balance things out in their view.
 
A

AlteredBeast

Fork 'em, Sparky!
Blergmeister said:
On Civil Rights the thing that came to my mind was not Affirmitive Action but the various Voter ID laws. What are your thoughts on this? I have nothing against the concept in the abstract but I feel it's plainly obvious that the laws proposed are being implemented in a way that "conveniently" harms certain segments of legal voters (targeting traditional Democratic blocs who are either young, poor, or poor minority). That and it seems that the threat is no where near real as far as the voter fraud this would catch.
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I think in principal voter ID laws are nothing if not obvious, but there is such a wide berth for discrimination, nitpicking and the prevention of lawful voting that it is just another sham that GOPers are using in hopes of preventing the unwashed (minority) masses from voting for democrats.

I would be totally fine with voter id laws if they were passed with the regulation that free state issued IDs would be given to residents free of charge and without unwieldy regulations. If people, after that was followed, still couldn't be assed to bring their IDs to the polling booth with them, then I don't want their votes to count, because they are obviously ignorant people (me being callous again). But I definitely don't want people's votes to be ignored because of evil people. The first time I went to vote, I pulled out my ID and they were like, "that's not necessary, sir." I was blown away. I need my ID to buy cough syrup...
 
R

RustyNails

Member
r-SIGNATURE-large570.jpg


ruhroh
 
K

Kosmo

Banned
RustyNails said:
r-SIGNATURE-large570.jpg


ruhroh
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They got him. He probably scheduled those interviews to drop out of the race.

So the strategy is to explain to the American electorate what his name on an SEC filing could potentially mean, even though everyone knows he was running the Olympics from 99-02. Brilliant - you will lose them at SEC.

Unless you have a contract signed by Romney authorizing the firing of employees specifically to be outsourced, you basically have nothing.

It's hilarious seeing how much stock you guys are putting into this.
 
O

Opiate

Member
Kosmo said:
Has anyone ever gone on record in saying they are interested in being the VP? I'm not convinced Rice will be the pick, I don't think many (any?) have said no when asked.
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I would guess lots have said no when asked -- but those "nos" never make the headlines, because I would suspect everyone is asked privately behind closed doors before they are asked publicly in the eyes of the media.

Otherwise, the risk of this happening is too great:

Presidential Candidate: "I like you. Will you be my running mate?"
VP Nom: "I don't really want to be associated with you."

It would be difficult to hurt your campaign more than being publicly rejected by a wide swathe of people who are supposedly your party allies.
 
O

Opiate

Member
Regarding voter ID laws, do any liberals here have real, substantial, and repeated studies showing how frequent (or infrequent) voter fraud is? My understanding is that there is very little science on the topic.
 
P

Particle Physicist

between a quark and a baryon
Kosmo said:
They got him. He probably scheduled those interviews to drop out of the race.

So the strategy is to explain to the American electorate what his name on an SEC filing could potentially mean, even though everyone knows he was running the Olympics from 99-02. Brilliant - you will lose them at SEC.

Unless you have a contract signed by Romney authorizing the firing of employees specifically to be outsourced, you basically have nothing.

It's hilarious seeing how much stock you guys are putting into this.
Click to expand...

So what you are saying is that Romney was likely collecting pay checks for not doing any work? Interesting.
 
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
Kosmo said:
They got him. He probably scheduled those interviews to drop out of the race.

So the strategy is to explain to the American electorate what his name on an SEC filing could potentially mean, even though everyone knows he was running the Olympics from 99-02. Brilliant - you will lose them at SEC.

Unless you have a contract signed by Romney authorizing the firing of employees specifically to be outsourced, you basically have nothing.

It's hilarious seeing how much stock you guys are putting into this.
Click to expand...

How do we know he was running the Olympics? Maybe he was just "in charge" (whatever that means of course), but had no input on any decisions and just was an alleged figure head :)
 
B

balladofwindfishes

Member
Kosmo said:
They got him. He probably scheduled those interviews to drop out of the race.

So the strategy is to explain to the American electorate what his name on an SEC filing could potentially mean, even though everyone knows he was running the Olympics from 99-02. Brilliant - you will lose them at SEC.

Unless you have a contract signed by Romney authorizing the firing of employees specifically to be outsourced, you basically have nothing.

It's hilarious seeing how much stock you guys are putting into this.
Click to expand...
So he was collecting a paycheck for not doing work? Hmm...
 
R

RDreamer

Member
The thing is no matter which way things were re: his time at Bain post 1999, things don't look so swell on him. If he was there and had responsibility over what went on then yeah, he was responsible for outsourcing and all that. Also means he lied to people whenever that stuff was brought up by saying he had nothing to do with it. If he wasn't there and had no responsibility, then the American people have to swallow the fact that he made some mystery sum over $100,000 per year as the sole stockholder, chairman of the board, chief executive officer, and president and yet he admittedly did absolutely nothing and had no responsibilities. You think Mr. and Mrs. have to work 2 jobs to make ends meet are going to like that explanation either?
 
P

pigeon

Banned
Kosmo said:
So the strategy is to explain to the American electorate what his name on an SEC filing could potentially mean, even though everyone knows he was running the Olympics from 99-02. Brilliant - you will lose them at SEC.
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"Romney said he wasn't involved with Bain after 1999, but actually he was running the place." Sound bite.

Romney is the one who has to explain why even though he was the president, chairman, and CEO, and unquestionably had the legal authority to stop or reverse any action Bain took, he shouldn't be responsible for the stuff that happened with his name signed to it. And just coincidentally explain that he was getting paid a huge salary not to do anything. That's his DEFENSE.
 
C

cartoon_soldier

Member
Kosmo said:
They got him. He probably scheduled those interviews to drop out of the race.

So the strategy is to explain to the American electorate what his name on an SEC filing could potentially mean, even though everyone knows he was running the Olympics from 99-02. Brilliant - you will lose them at SEC.

Unless you have a contract signed by Romney authorizing the firing of employees specifically to be outsourced, you basically have nothing.

It's hilarious seeing how much stock you guys are putting into this.
Click to expand...

You are responsible for everything the company does as CEO, Owner, etc.
 
T

Tamanon

Banned
Romney should've just been upfront about the fact that any time in business, people will lose jobs. That's just capitalism at work, not trying to pussyfoot around it.
 
D

DeathbyVolcano

Banned
CNN is running the story with that picture of Romney with all the cash in his hands :jnc

I don't really think this means anything, to be honest, other than pissing of some left-leaning indies, but I don't think this is a story that people will care about in a few weeks.

Certainly doesn't help his case in swing states though.
 
P

pigeon

Banned
Tamanon said:
Romney should've just been upfront about the fact that any time in business, people will lose jobs. That's just capitalism at work, not trying to pussyfoot around it.
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This is one of the many, many times in politics where saying what everybody knows will lose you the election, so you have to say something else even though it's a blatant lie. This may be the problem with government.
 
C

cartoon_soldier

Member
DeathbyVolcano said:
CNN is running the story with that picture of Romney with all the cash in his hands :jnc

I don't really think this means anything, to be honest, other than pissing of some left-leaning indies, but I don't think this is a story that people will care about in a few weeks.

Certainly doesn't help his case in swing states though.
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What the story has done is buried the weak economic data for 2 months straight now.
 
A

AlteredBeast

Fork 'em, Sparky!
DeathbyVolcano said:
CNN is running the story with that picture of Romney with all the cash in his hands :jnc

I don't really think this means anything, to be honest, other than pissing of some left-leaning indies, but I don't think this is a story that people will care about in a few weeks.

Certainly doesn't help his case in swing states though.
Click to expand...

I think this does ding him for a while. I wouldn't doubt that in the next week, you are going to see rolling polls swing him 2 or 3% lower, putting him WELL out of contention in nearly if not all swing states. He will probably rebound a little bit, but a lot of this is going to stick around for a while.

Guess I will be writing in Reagan again this year...
 
O

Opiate

Member
AlteredBeast said:
There have been elections with dead people voting, there was even a documentary filmed about it rampantly being used in a Washington gubernatorial race. Rally with the guy who busted it wide open
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Right, and I'm sure you can make a documentary about innery city poor people being denied the right to vote by an ID law which held them to practical standards which couldn't be met.

From an outsider's perspective (that is, someone who hasn't considered the topic much), it looks like the definition of a partisan issue; we have anecdotes on both sides, and little evidence to support which is more common than the other, or what we consider tolerable thresholds for fraud and tolerable thresholds for disenfranchisement -- because realistically both are going to happen to some degree regardless.

So what are the ratios? How much and how many? I'm not saying these studies don't exist -- but I can say I've never seen them, and I have never seen anyone cite them, either. It appears that Democrats just know that lots of people are being disenfranchised, while Republicans just know that lots of fraud is occuring.
 
D

DeathbyVolcano

Banned
The one case of fraud that I remember, at least anecdotally and locally, was Diebold machines being faulty in 2000 and swinging a very small percentage of votes towards Bush. Diebold of course is run by rich white fogeys and gets money from richer white fogeys, so it was a big deal in Ohio for a while.
 
D

DasRaven

Member
DeathbyVolcano said:
CNN is running the story with that picture of Romney with all the cash in his hands :jnc

I don't really think this means anything, to be honest, other than pissing of some left-leaning indies, but I don't think this is a story that people will care about in a few weeks.

Certainly doesn't help his case in swing states though.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't think the endgame here is direct damage to his campaign, but the increasing pressure to "prove it" by releasing the rest of the tax returns he provided the McCain campaign. The fact that they continue to fumble the response so badly is icing on the cake.

What could be in those returns will do the actual damage.

Opiate said:
So what are the ratios? How much and how many? I'm not saying these studies don't exist -- but I can say I've never seen them, and I have never seen anyone cite them, either. It appears that Democrats just know that lots of people are being disenfranchised, while Republicans just know that lots of fraud is occuring.
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See the link I provided you. Tells as much of the story as I can find reasonably consolidated to a single place. There is voter fraud, always has been, always will be. There is voter disenfranchisement, always has been, always will be.
Problem is GOP-run states are responding to a infinitesimal amount of fraud by throwing millions off the voting rolls. It's like responding to a slight itch on you finger by chopping off your arm off at the shoulder.

Here's one of the linked charts from the NYT, keep in mind that this is from all Federal elections 2002-2005.
0412-nat-webFRAUD.gif
 
A

Allard

Member
DeathbyVolcano said:
CNN is running the story with that picture of Romney with all the cash in his hands :jnc

I don't really think this means anything, to be honest, other than pissing of some left-leaning indies, but I don't think this is a story that people will care about in a few weeks.

Certainly doesn't help his case in swing states though.
Click to expand...

Its going to stick around, Its the grand offering to the Obama administration narrative with Bain. If Romney 'personally' doesn't find a way to sweep this under the rug by telling the truth this will be his swift boat event for Romney. His only discernable strength (better or worse) is a businessman. Lying about his own record at his company, the one strength he has forces a narrative change in politics, the Bain attacks are also one of the few things that has actually stuck to Romney during this early brutal campaign cycle.
 
T

Tamanon

Banned
I'm still sticking to the whole Bain fiasco being pushed solely to keep Romney from establishing a position as a clear job creator.

Basically prevents the GE from starting with Romney in a position of power.
 
B

besada

Banned
I am on my phone right now, so I'm not going to dig up the link, but the last study I saw on voter fraud was from the Brennan Center for Justice, and the number cited was something like .0002 percent (give or take a zero). Shouldn't be a difficult google for those of you on a laptop or desktop.
 
M

Measley

Junior Member
Consider the Romney news blitz as a tap out, because things are unraveling rapidly. Holy shit. The Obama campaign is hard core. I've never seen a democratic campaign this focused and brutal.

Don't mess with Chicago.
 
A

AlteredBeast

Fork 'em, Sparky!
It would be humorous if President Obama's campaign blew their respective attack load too early and Romney was able to shake it off by election time.

Romney better have one hell of a debate season or VP pick or this is going to be a bigger loss than 2008 by both percentage and EC votes.
 
O

Opiate

Member
Cyan said:
Real, substantial, and repeated? Not off the top of my head. Though IIRC, the study sponsored last year by Republicans in Florida (?) showed essentially no voter fraud.

And here's a source with some suggestive numbers, though I've not checked their citations (apologies for the awkward formatting; it's c/ped from a pdf):


And this on "dead voters":


In any case, given that it's the voter ID proponents who are proposing massive new regulations that will disenfranchise people, I submit that the onus is on them to demonstrate a quantity of voter fraud that justifies such measures.
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Okay, thank you (And to the othe poster, although I don't particularly trust Mother Jones on this, just as I never trust biased sources which reach conclusions that they would already like to hear).

Are there any studies out there which show the opposite? That is, studies which show significant fraud? There may not be enough conservatives to make that possible, but perhaps Altered or Kosmo or ToxicAdam can provide them.
 
C

cartoon_soldier

Member
AlteredBeast said:
It would be humorous if President Obama's campaign blew their respective attack load too early and Romney was able to shake it off by election time.

Romney better have one hell of a debate season or VP pick or this is going to be a bigger loss than 2008 by both percentage and EC votes.
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No, it will always be closer than 2008. Because Indiana is not voting Obama.
 
C

Clevinger

Member
Cyan said:
*bunch of info*
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Another example was this year. I forget where it was, but the Republican AG claimed there were something like 900 possible fraudulent votes using dead people. Then he narrowed it down to like 9, and then he eventually dropped the whole thing because it turned out they were just people who actually did die after they mailed in/cast their vote.
 
A

AlteredBeast

Fork 'em, Sparky!
Opiate said:
Okay, thank you (And to the othe poster, although I don't particularly trust Mother Jones on this, just as I never trust biased sources which reach conclusions that they would already like to hear).

Are there any studies out there which show the opposite? That is, studies which show significant fraud? There may not be enough conservatives to make that possible, but perhaps Altered or Kosmo or ToxicAdam can provide them.
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Voter fraud is largely a myth concocted by a party grasping at the straws of relevancy for one more political cycle...
 
T

thatbox

Banned
Opiate said:
Okay, thank you (And to the othe poster, although I don't particularly trust Mother Jones on this, just as I never trust biased sources which reach conclusions that they would already like to hear).

Are there any studies out there which show the opposite? That is, studies which show significant fraud? There may not be enough conservatives to make that possible, but perhaps Altered or Kosmo or ToxicAdam can provide them.
Click to expand...

They're in the same place as the studies that show climate change isn't real and Earth is six thousand years old.
 
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