Salvor.Hardin
Banned
Not to take this thread down a rabbit hole, but let's not compare the visual majesty that is Alien to anything Nolan has ever done and probably will ever do. Alien is just that good looking.
The Dark Knight Rises |OT| The Legend Ends (Warning: Unmarked Spoilers Within)
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Not to take this thread down a rabbit hole, but let's not compare the visual majesty that is Alien to anything Nolan has ever done and probably will ever do. Alien is just that good looking.
Look at how it's framed in the shot piece. Recentered on the face while the background is reconsidered as foreground information. It's called format layering. The alien shot you posted does the same. The format of the background forms into the foreground because of the recentering.
MidnightCowboy
Member
Alien doesn't look that good until the last 20 minutes.
Foreign Jackass
Member
Awe-inspiring? No. Interesting? Yes. It keeps your interest level up, because you've got multiple things to look at. It's really THAT simple. Nolan is a "one thing at a time" director, and this is boring.
That's pretty much what I've been saying for the last 5 posts or so.
Sure, but we're comparing it to The Amazing Spider-Man here.
There's a couple shots from TDKR I'd love to post right now, but a lot of them are from TV spots and featurettes, so I'll just refrain from this whole debate.
I think there's an element of truth to Jackass's criticism, but I think it's neglecting to note Nolan/Pfister's exponential growth in framing shots over the course of their filmographies. The transition from his first Hollywood production (BB), which I agree is rather boring in its shots after the first third, to his latest is noticeable.
Additionally, I think it's being a little too critical of Nolan's brand, which tends toward more of an architectural sort of technical composition, versus something more visceral and artistic.
I think there's an element of truth to Jackass's criticism, but I think it's neglecting to note Nolan/Pfister's exponential growth in framing shots over the course of their filmographies. The transition from his first Hollywood production (BB), which I agree is rather boring in its shots after the first third, to his latest is noticeable.
Additionally, I think it's being a little too critical of Nolan's brand, which tends toward more of an architectural sort of technical composition, versus something more visceral and artistic.
Salvor.Hardin
Banned
A music video director's first summer action movie is probably not worth being compared to. It's a decent/fun movie, plays it safe and has some good action scenes. But comparing Marc Webb's work to Nolans' is pointless.
Foreign Jackass
Member
The school fight scene in TASM is shot in a more interesting, more kinetic way than any action sequence Nolan has done. I'm not saying TASM is a masterpiece. It's just a more visually entertaining movie, if a dumber one.
But I don't watch superhero movies because they're smart.
I'm sorry, but I don't understand anything you're talking about. I'm saying the shot is still a "one thing at a time" type of shot. A flat, expository shot that carries only one visual information. Scared policemen running.
SunhiLegend
Member
I got my college degree before I went and saw TDK. Unfortunately I wont be able to finish my thesis before next week.
*fists in air*
MidnightCowboy
Member
Visually, ASM is fantastic for Webb's first outing. There is nothing groundbreaking though. The shots are very clean and one of the better examples of a comic book action transitioning to cinema. Easily the best out of the entire Marvel film lineup.
Nolan goes by the beat of his own drum. It's very hard to compare him to modern directors at the moment doing similar films.
Nolan goes by the beat of his own drum. It's very hard to compare him to modern directors at the moment doing similar films.
Foreign Jackass
Member
How and why is this impressive? Is this the first moving shot you've ever seen, or what?
That's not an action sequence. Who am I arguing with, here?
brucewaynegretzky
Member
Unfortunately Andrew Garfield is an abomination. I hate him.
shira
Member
LOL driving with his feet
THE-Pink-Dagger
Member
You do know and realize that 90 % of the people dont give a shit about any of this. They just see the frame, the image, and that's it. Alien has some great cinematography, but those shots are nothing special.
I HATE YOU!
He fits the Spider-Man outfit nicely, liked the tall and lanky look. It's a toss up between him and Tobey as Peter Parker. I don't think either really do him justice, but the chemistry and emotional value of the series weighs heavily in Tobey's favor.
SunhiLegend
Member
You're trying to say Nolan is a "one thing at a time" director, there's plenty of examples where he's shot scenes with multiple things happening at once.
shira
Member
He don't look or sound like a teenager in high school
THE-Pink-Dagger
Member
You may hate him but he is a fantastic actor but it's not the subject here.
Foreign Jackass
Member
Go ahead and compare him to older directors if you want.
Frankenheimer, Alan J. Pakula, Friedkin... all of them share a sensibility with Nolan, for instance, and yet their movies were way better, and were visually incredible.
Also, for what it's worth, all this "one thing at a time" criticism of his cinematography falls to take into account that there is usually a lot of plot strands going on concurrently in the editing portion of Nolan's movies. Keeping things clean and simple visually makes it easier to digest as the story cuts back and forth between locations (and even time periods).
MidnightCowboy
Member
You never specified. You only said it was more visually entertaining.
brucewaynegretzky
Member
There were about 8 or 9 times where I wanted to scream "SPIT IT OUT ALREADY!" at the screen. Most notably the scene on Gwen's roof. And before you say it, he WASN'T being "shy." He was being a tool. Someone being shy wouldn't act like that.
Agreed on the action though.
THE-Pink-Dagger
Member
Oh and are some seriously comparing action scenes from TASM with Batman?! Seriously?! I love TASM, but it's a fricking superhero with superpowers, moving extremely fast, like a spider, it will obviously be much more energetic than a Batman movie, pointless remark.
Foreign Jackass
Member
Uh, maybe 90% of the people don't give a shit about any of this. But the 10% are actually the ones who know what they're talking about. 90% of people go to the movies for pretty stupid reasons. I'm not trying to address them right now.
Have you read any comic book? Batman is athletic, and he does a shitload of awesome physical stuff in the comics. There's a way to shoot those scenes where you'll actually SEE it.
You quoted me, dude. Just read that quote again.
I just realized how this shot (head hanging out the window like a dog) plays into the "I'm a dog chasing cars" speech he gives Dent a few scenes later.
I don't want to do that, don't think it's really fair to either of the directors and just leads to more empty arguments.
I'm pretty pleased with Nolan's filmography to date, that's all that really matters to me.
Same. People mistake chemistry for awkwardness sometimes. Michael Cera would have looked good in some of those scenes.
Messypandas
Member
also Dent calling him the "mad-dog". i like the comparison to his erratic behaviour
shira
Member
No no no then he's a dog in a car.
Foreign Jackass
Member
Well then let him write a book. Then he'll have more time to explain all his shitty rules to us, I guess.
Yea but look at what's going on behind him.
Foreign Jackass
Member
Watch the sequence again. The moment those two start talking together, Nolan switches to close-ups. And you'll never have more than two characters talking at the same time in this sequence. Basically, she goes away, and then he goes to talk with Arthur. That's EXACTLY what I am talking about.
Works for me.
Good set designs, boring scenes.
Messypandas
Member
you sound salty. maybe you should quit Nolan movies? doesn't sound like you derive any enjoyment from them
THE-Pink-Dagger
Member
I'm not talking just about the G.A, but keep on being condescendent, it suits you well.
Wanna talk about gorgeous cinematography?!
The Dark Knight, Hugo, Prometheus, War Horse, The Social Network, Girl With Dragon Tattoo, Drive, The Grey, Warrior, on the top of my head and among recent examples.
I believe that Begins has fantastic cinematography as well, but the color palette is less spectacular than in TDK.
Wanna talk about gorgeous cinematography?!
The Dark Knight, Hugo, Prometheus, War Horse, The Social Network, Girl With Dragon Tattoo, Drive, The Grey, Warrior, on the top of my head and among recent examples.
I believe that Begins has fantastic cinematography as well, but the color palette is less spectacular than in TDK.
I figured out what your problem is. You think every director has to be a visual auteur. Got it.
There's room for different types of directors. Just because Nolan has a particular skillset that leans toward storytelling doesn't make him a bad director. His cinematographic style is well-suited for that purpose.
Foreign Jackass
Member
You're kidding me, right? You can take any fucking Schwarzie or Stallone movie from the 80s and find a similar shot with many people running from a menace. You're telling me this is visually interesting storytelling? Come on, dude.
THE-Pink-Dagger
Member
Yes, I read comic books douche bag, now stop being a jackass.
Hero_of_the_Day
Member
I like his mask and costume, haven't said shit about anyone who thinks otherwise, though. I've only laughed at the Ledger comments from back in the day, and the person who thought Amazing Spider-man was going to be better than this based on seeing Bane's mask.
vicissitudes
Banned
I agree there are way too many scenes where it's just closeups, and some scenes have too many cuts, especially some of the fight scenes. But what Nolan gets right in Begins far outweigh my criticisms.
Foreign Jackass
Member
But he's NOT a good storyteller! That's my whole point! He's got a good story to tell, I guess, but they're told in a boring way. Stilted dialogue, stupid rulesets nobody cares about, empty characters that carry concepts on their shoulders... anyways, that's how I feel about him. I think he's just not a good storyteller, and that he's way more interested with screenwriting concepts than with visual ones. Which make him a bad storyteller because he's working in the film industry. Maybe he'd be a good screenwriter if he could fix that dialogue shit and have it directed by somebody else...
Isn't that what he's gonna do with the Batman franchise now? Maybe that's gonna be interesting.
THE-Pink-Dagger
Member
Watched the featurette on the fighting, stunt stuff in Batman Begins, and Nolan talks about the fast cuts, and it's there to show this bestial, animal like fighting style of Batman, how fast he is, and to show less of him.
Foreign Jackass
Member
So why did he do it before he became Batman, then, in the prison scene and in the Ra's Al Ghul training scenes?
Sounds like a stupid excuse to me. And, well, it doesn't work anyways. The only shot that works in this logic is the one where one of Falcone's dumb dudes gets dragged in the container.
Hero_of_the_Day
Member
THE-Pink-Dagger
Member
Foreign Jackass cant be helped, he's one of those stupid folks thinking he knows better than all of us.
vicissitudes
Banned
I liked the fights with Batman, in fact I miss those kind of scenes in Dark Knight. However scenes like when Bruce was fighting the prison guards...all the close-ups and cuts weren't really necessary.
Foreign Jackass
Member
Ah.
Nah, I don't know better than all of you. I know better than you, though.
Messypandas
Member
the point of the fight scenes was typically to show it from the villains perspective and how Batman stalks them one by one gradually making them piss their pants. I love that shift in dynamic from your bogstandard superhero fight. You don't see shit because hes a friggin Ninja
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