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[MechaX]

I'm playing on hard mode and I'm up to the boss fight in Lhant against Richard. He heals for like 7k whenever he's under 10k periodically, and it's totally killing me. I have no idea how I can do that much damage in that short an amount of time. What's the secret.

Welcome to boss fights on higher difficulties. It only gets worse from here.

Basically what you might have to do is spam artes that will hit his weaknesses. Also, he's probably healing by using the arte that attacks a party member and gives him HP (forgot what the name of it was). Outside of that and using an All-Divide, that's pretty much all you can do.

 

[Sagitario]

I'm playing on hard mode and I'm up to the boss fight in Lhant against

Spoiler

Richard

. He heals for like 7k whenever he's under 10k periodically, and it's totally killing me. I have no idea how I can do that much damage in that short an amount of time. What's the secret.

I remember that.
That was one of the most annoying trophies to get.
Perhaps you should lower the difficulty?


(I would use spoiler tags, BTW).

Future arc feels like its lost the charm of the main arc, I just can't get myself to keep playing through it.

Richard+Malik make it totally worth it

I haven't been able to play since the 20th because of work

 

[Dedication Through Light]

Richard+Malik make it totally worth it

I haven't been able to play since the 20th because of work

And why does Richard get no swimsuit

 

[Dedication Through Light]

Finished the future arc, they could have really enhanced the story and made it a bit deeper, seemed way too much focused on terrible pairings of characters.

Anway Accel Mode is awesome, is it retained on new game+?

 

[nintendoman58]

Finished the future arc, they could have really enhanced the story and made it a bit deeper, seemed way too much focused on terrible pairings of characters.

Anway Accel Mode is awesome, is it retained on new game+?

Worry not. It is.

EDIT: Whoops, forgot to mention that you have to re-earn it through your title.

 

[PKrockin]

I'm getting back into this game again, currently

Spoiler

just after curing Sophie.

Can't wait to go explore more abandoned research facilities with brain-dead puzzles and phoned-in music. Good thing the battle system is so amazing.

One thing I'm wondering about and couldn't find information on in GameFAQs, why is Hubert's Omelette Crusader title icon an orange cat thing? What's that mean? At first I thought it was a costume title...

 

[Sagitario]

This thread disappeared from my subscriptions. How odd (and it has happened before with other threads).

Anyway... work still hunts me. I want some free time so I can continue playing

So, I was reading some Wii U thread and saw this:

I think the subscreen would be freaking helpful on Graces: touching for automatic item usage (because of lacking AI options), displaying enemy info and the combo tree (and arte attributes) without pausing the action would be excellent.

 

[Dark Schala]

One thing I'm wondering about and couldn't find information on in GameFAQs, why is Hubert's Omelette Crusader title icon an orange cat thing? What's that mean? At first I thought it was a costume title...

Title costumes are usually cat icons, but some of them aren't. Those ones are generally 'novelty' or miscellaneous titles. You'll notice that those titles' attributes don't fit into any sort of fixed pattern like the shield (raise defense, has a recovering effect), sword (gives effects to your attacks), or square (raise stats) ones, for example. They just used the cat icon ones for those since they're just miscellaneous stuff like hourglass effects, costumes' HP recover, etc.

I think the subscreen would be freaking helpful on Graces: touching for automatic item usage (because of lacking AI options), displaying enemy info and the combo tree (and arte attributes) without pausing the action would be excellent.

Makes me wonder why they didn't do that with the DS games. That would be smart.

(Bottom screen in the DS games like Hearts were artes shortcuts.)

 

[Sagitario]

Makes me wonder why they didn't do that with the DS games. That would be smart.

(Bottom screen in the DS games like Hearts were artes shortcuts.)

They also missed that boat with TotA 3DS (but it was a lazy [not bad] port).

 

[Labadal]

I'm in

Spoiler

Fendel

territory, and I finally decided to up the difficulty to Hard. The Eleth Mixer is less of a pain to level up now, and getting useful items is a lot easier. I can actually string together combos now that enemies don't die in mere seconds. My best combo right now is 50. I've been mixing up who I control, wich I usually don't do in Tales games. They're all fun to play as, well maybe not Cheria, but it can be useful to control her sometimes. I've gotten 50 titles for 3 characters so far, and the rest are slowly getting close to 50. game clock is at close to 45 hours, and I can see myself spending another 45 hours. Problem is that I need to find the time.

 

[Astra]

I started this up again, after not playing for a good 2 months. I am 32 hours in, and have no freaking clue what I was doing before I stopped playing. I might have to start over, but I really don't want to, as I'd likely end up quitting halfway through again.

Thanks to the synopsis, I know where I at least have to go. I hope everything else falls into place along the way.

 

[Mikhal]

You can also press L1 on the field and it'll tell you where you need to go next to advance the story.

 

[RPGCrazied]

I haven't checked in awhile, but have they added Hubert's Flynn outfit and Asbel's Haseo outfit?

 

[dakkumauji]

I haven't checked in awhile, but have they added Hubert's Flynn outfit and Asbel's Haseo outfit?

Yes to Hubert's Flynn outfit.

No to Asbel's Haseo outfit. And, we'll probably never get that one either.

 

[Dark Schala]

Didn't they stop putting DLC up for this game, and the last set was... uh... the cameo costumes, iirc?

I think we went through it earlier in the thread, and noted that the Haseo, Miku, Idolmaster, etc. costumes' icons were removed based on the JP version's numbering.

They also missed that boat with TotA 3DS (but it was a lazy [not bad] port).

I wish they'd done more with that port. But I guess it was the easiest thing for them to do.

 

[Astra]

You can also press L1 on the field and it'll tell you where you need to go next to advance the story.

Ah, that's right, thanks.

I'll be having to make use of it, I'm sure. I played a couple hours last week, and haven't played since. Having a hard time getting back into it. Probably a bit burnt out on gaming with all the RPGs I've played over the last few months.

 

[Dedication Through Light]

I want to go back in and replay but I also need a break from all the JRPGs, I guess Ill get back into this later this summer. Which I must do since I need to make use of all the money I poured into those costumes

 

[Edgeward]

Coming back to the game after a break, gonna learn Hubert and tone it down to hard while doing so since he is such a glass cannon. How are people keeping his CC up? I'm having trouble sustaining attacks

 

[Dark Schala]

Coming back to the game after a break, gonna learn Hubert and tone it down to hard while doing so since he is such a glass cannon. How are people keeping his CC up? I'm having trouble sustaining attacks

Are you hitting enemies' weak points with different artes? That grants you CC bonuses, as is dodging enemies' attacks with good timing.

Also, getting better weapons and dualizing weapons with shards that increase min or max CC (or increase the rate of CC refill) helps out a lot.

 

[Sagitario]

Are you hitting enemies' weak points with different artes? That grants you CC bonuses, as is dodging enemies' attacks with good timing.

Also, getting better weapons and dualizing weapons with shards that increase min or max CC (or increase the rate of CC refill) helps out a lot.

I am guessing I am going to have a hard time when I start playing the ƒ again D: (enemies there have a significant stat boost over the main game).

 

[Dark Schala]

I am guessing I am going to have a hard time when I start playing the ƒ again D: (enemies there have a significant stat boost over the main game).

Go through the Zone Cage a little bit, because they dish out experience like crazy. :O

 

[Edgeward]

Are you hitting enemies' weak points with different artes? That grants you CC bonuses, as is dodging enemies' attacks with good timing.

Also, getting better weapons and dualizing weapons with shards that increase min or max CC (or increase the rate of CC refill) helps out a lot.

Yea, it's coming back to me now. Seems his moves aren't varied enough in properties in some cases unlike Asbel who can just go crazy not thinking much. Only thing I'm finding that's difficult as Hubert is getting stunned and not being able to shake it off fast enough. Is there a way to un-stun faster? Mashing guard doesn't seem to do anything.

And my min CC with hubert is 7 D=. So unfun unlike Asbel who can go 10 everytime and hit heaven's wrath at will.

 

[PKrockin]

I think the subscreen would be freaking helpful on Graces: touching for automatic item usage (because of lacking AI options), displaying enemy info and the combo tree (and arte attributes) without pausing the action would be excellent.

Given how fast-paced battles are I doubt I would ever have time to read arte info on the controller without pausing the game. But I think setting up item use shortcuts would be great.

Yea, it's coming back to me now. Seems his moves aren't varied enough in properties in some cases unlike Asbel who can just go crazy not thinking much. Only thing I'm finding that's difficult as Hubert is getting stunned and not being able to shake it off fast enough. Is there a way to un-stun faster? Mashing guard doesn't seem to do anything.

And my min CC with hubert is 7 D=. So unfun unlike Asbel who can go 10 everytime and hit heaven's wrath at will.

If there are stars circling your character you can mash/rotate the left stick to get out of it faster. Otherwise I think there are titles and equipment that will shorten stagger time.

 

[Sagitario]

Go through the Zone Cage a little bit, because they dish out experience like crazy. :O

That was the original plan, but everybody said: "DO THE ƒ ARC FIRST, YOU GET EXCEL MODE!"

Now I am stuck (which I don't really mind), but I don't want to lower the difficulty

Given how fast-paced battles are I doubt I would ever have time to read arte info on the controller without pausing the game. But I think setting up item use shortcuts would be great.

Even if I had to pause, at least I wouldn't go into 3 menus just to get the arte info (and then returning to the battle screen). It's cumbersome and tedious. It would be right there, visible and displayed.
With the Wii U controller, I wouldn't lose more than 3 seconds to see what arte tree is the most convenient.

 

[Dark Schala]

Yea, it's coming back to me now. Seems his moves aren't varied enough in properties in some cases unlike Asbel who can just go crazy not thinking much. Only thing I'm finding that's difficult as Hubert is getting stunned and not being able to shake it off fast enough. Is there a way to un-stun faster? Mashing guard doesn't seem to do anything.

Hubert's stun animation at the beginning bugs me at times because it really does take time, but you can remedy this by getting new titles and levelling those up (ex: Eleth Mod - reduces stun time by 3/4 when equipped). When you get really good with Hubert, you'll learn to avoid getting hit in general. He's a lot better when you get better artes, much like other characters in this game.

Edit: Oh, you're talking about when stars/birds fly around your head? Rotate the left stick.

That was the original plan, but everybody said: "DO THE ƒ ARC FIRST, YOU GET EXCEL MODE!"

Now I am stuck (which I don't really mind), but I don't want to lower the difficulty

Ohhh, I thought you finished up F Arc before. :O

Finish up the F Arc first and then do Zone Cage. It's tough, I know, but it's more than worth it. And even if you're stubborn and not being successful, perhaps lowering the difficulty would be for the best. You want to play the game to enjoy it, not hate it.

 

[Edgeward]

Good. Thanks for all the help!

Got to get used to his recovery after he attacks. It's way too long! He's much for CC dependent as you really need to watch how you spend it because you need some left to dodge or else you are so boned.

 

[PKrockin]

Even if I had to pause, at least I wouldn't go into 3 menus just to get the arte info (and then returning to the battle screen). It's cumbersome and tedious. It would be right there, visible and displayed.
With the Wii U controller, I wouldn't lose more than 3 seconds to see what arte tree is the most convenient.

I agree with you and think it's a good idea, pausing and hitting a button on the controller to instantly see your artes would be good, especially since you would be able to see the enemy's weaknesses on-screen at the same time. Just saying I can hardly comprehend switching between A-artes and B-artes, dodging, using artes that hit weaknesses, chaining together artes seamlessly, altered artes, etc. My brain would melt if I tried to look up which artes hit certain weaknesses mid-combo.

 

[Sagitario]

I agree with you and think it's a good idea, pausing and hitting a button on the controller to instantly see your artes would be good, especially since you would be able to see the enemy's weaknesses on-screen at the same time. Just saying I can hardly comprehend switching between A-artes and B-artes, dodging, using artes that hit weaknesses, chaining together artes seamlessly, altered artes, etc. My brain would melt if I tried to look up which artes hit certain weaknesses mid-combo.

Mid-combo would be hard, yes, but doable.
What most people would do (at least, what I currently do).

See enemy weakness > Arte menu > Figure out best tree > close menu > attack enemy.
If the next enemy has different weakness, I repeat the process.
Basically, you prepare the combo mentally before hitting bad guys.

Wii U controller would make this much faster and seamless.

 

[PKrockin]

Mid-combo would be hard, yes, but doable.
What most people would do (at least, what I currently do).

See enemy weakness > Arte menu > Figure out best tree > close menu > attack enemy.
If the next enemy has different weakness, I repeat the process.
Basically, you prepare the combo mentally before hitting bad guys.

Wii U controller would make this much faster and seamless.

Yeah, I agree with you. By now I've looked at the artes menu so much I've memorized most of the attributes of Asbel's attacks. Trying out other characters is kind of daunting because I'll have to learn these new attack attributes, and having the artes available at the push of a button would be helpful.

 

[Augemitbutter]

is the Data Recorder missable? needed for Sophie's title, 'Version 6.1. i was at the right spot in the

Spoiler

cocoon

multiple times, it's not there. the request is active.

 

[Mikhal]

Did you reached Guardia Shaft: Center yet? i think that's one of the requirements.

 

[Augemitbutter]

i have not. why is the quest in the inn then? ;(

ed: i simply unlocked Guardia Shaft and it appeared, thanks!

that's sloppy quest design.

 

[Dick Justice]

I've heard quite a bit about how the Tales games have rather limited print runs. If I was to get the Day One edition, and leave it sealed, would its value increase over time?

 

[Sagitario]

Check for yourself previous releases con Amazon and eBay and you be the judge.

 

[Trojita]

I just finally started playing this game after having gotten it at launch (The Amazon preorder sale!).

Is there anything I should know as I'm starting the game?

 

[Labadal]

Instead of always buying new gear, when your funds aren't very high, you can dualize stuff to improve your items.

 

[PKrockin]

Once you get it, don't forget to use the eleth mixer a lot so it improves its maximum capacity and slots.

Dodge attacks. It grants you some invincibility frames and restores CC. And it looks cool.

Cryas Attack/Defense are not the usual "Magic Attack/Defense." Physical Attack/Defense determines A-Arte damage and Cryas Attack/Defense determines B-Arte damage.

Accuracy and evasion affect how well you stagger enemies and how well enemies stagger you. I suggest focusing on these stats.

 

[Augemitbutter]

Lshaft is such a lazy piece of shit dungeon. what were they thinking?

 

[PKrockin]

Lshaft is such a lazy piece of shit dungeon. what were they thinking?

describes most of the dungeons pretty well.

Concussive Bolt -> Burial Blade -> Burial Blade is too much fun.

 

[Sagitario]

I am fighting Lilitina, what a freaking cheap boss! This is the worst boss so far.

Edit: I can't believe I haven't read/heard more complaints about this boss. On par with the wild boar at least.
One hit can will you, you can't do combos on it, it has a freaking ton of HP.

I had to switch to moderate after like 10 fights on hard (and other 10 on each difficulty setting).

Edit 2: Laser bridge = annoying

 

[jb1234]

After months of on-and-off gaming, I finally finished the main quest last night. My overall thoughts on the game are very mixed. I liked the battle system (even if I wussed out after endless random battles and switched the difficulty to "easy"), the general world and a lot of the play mechanics.

On the other hand, I thought the story was ridiculously bland (even by the standards of the genre) and the characters were either annoying at worst (Asbel, Pascal) or inoffensive at best (Malik, Hubert). It was hard to care about anything that was happening, especially when the themes were so blatant and applied with the usual JRPG subtlety. It also took the characters a ridiculous amount of time to put the pieces together, when I was pretty sure what had happened to Richard about ten hours before it was made clear. But then, I've played far too many JRPGs.

Also, the music sucked. They really need a new composer for this franchise. I wanted to tear my ears out during the Barona Catacombs and while the rest of the music wasn't as horrid, it wasn't especially good either.

My thoughts on the Lineages quest are much more favorable. I'm not sure if they switched writers but the skits are MUCH MUCH MUCH better and actually do a decent job of showing that these characters have affection for each other. They tried to do this in the main quest but it ended up feeling unnatural and forced. I also find Asbel a lot more tolerable now that he's less obsessed with protecting everyone else. He has other things to worry about.

 

[PKrockin]

After months of on-and-off gaming, I finally finished the main quest last night. My overall thoughts on the game are very mixed. I liked the battle system (even if I wussed out after endless random battles and switched the difficulty to "easy"), the general world and a lot of the play mechanics.

On the other hand, I thought the story was ridiculously bland (even by the standards of the genre) and the characters were either annoying at worst (Asbel, Pascal) or inoffensive at best (Malik, Hubert). It was hard to care about anything that was happening, especially when the themes were so blatant and applied with the usual JRPG subtlety. It also took the characters a fair amount of time to put the pieces together, when I was pretty sure what had happened to Richard about ten hours before it was made clear. But then, I've played far too many JRPGs.

Also, the music sucked. They really need a new composer for this franchise. I wanted to tear my ears out during the Barona Catacombs and while the rest of the music wasn't as horrid, it wasn't especially good either.

My thoughts on the Lineages quest are much more favorable. I'm not sure if they switched writers but the skits are MUCH MUCH MUCH better and actually do a decent job of showing that these characters have affection for each other. They tried to do this in the main quest but it ended up feeling unnatural and forced. I also find Asbel a lot more tolerable now that he's less obsessed with protecting everyone else. He has other things to worry about.

I just finished the main quest and am maybe a third to a half through L&L, and I agree completely, except I absolutely love the battle system and played on Evil or Chaos most of the time.


I was wondering that myself, about the skits. They fall flat on their face in the main arc and then they suddenly get entertaining in L&L.

 

[Trojita]

This game should be called Tales of Douches F

Spoiler

First Aston is a douche

Then Asbel is a douche

Then Cheria is a douche

Then Hubert is a SUPER douche.

 

[Canis lupus]

Getting that CE on 31st of August.

 

[kayos90]

This game should be called Tales of Douches F

Spoiler

First Aston is a douche

Then Asbel is a douche

Then Cheria is a douche

Then Hubert is a SUPER douche.

You forgot to add that he's an awesome SUPER [curse word].

 

[Sagitario]

Well, I defeated the final boss of the ƒ arc on easy just to see how long it would take.
At level 85, it took me 3:20
How did everyone get the 60 seconds trophy? I don't want to replay the ƒ arc again :\



A few notes/questions:
- Can I use

Spoiler

adult Sophie

on the main arc?
- What exactly were the

Spoiler

Little Queens

? Humanoids? I didn't get that and why the last one made

Spoiler

Sophie grow

.
-

Spoiler

Lambda

is still within Asbel?
- Sword of Legendia. Love that freaking weapon. Legendia has my favorite Tales logo.
- The ƒ arc ending is much better



Now:
- Gather the rest of the materials for the figurines
- Get 33 titles for Richard \)
- Check what Magic Cartas from the ƒ I'm missing (which shouldn't be a lot)
- Defeat Poisson
-

Spoiler

Fodra Queen

in 60 seconds
- The EX dungeon
- The inn requests (stupid weapons with specific qualities )
- 9999 Eleth Mixer

 

[Dark Schala]

Well, I defeated the final boss of the ƒ arc on easy just to see how long it would take.
At level 85, it took me 3:20
How did everyone get the 60 seconds trophy? I don't want to replay the ƒ arc again :\

During both plat runs, I had to do F Arc twice. It's more bearable on the second run because you'll have gone through the Zone Cage.

I posted what I did here.

A few notes/questions:
- Can I use

Spoiler

adult Sophie

on the main arc?
- What exactly were the

Spoiler

Little Queens

? Humanoids? I didn't get that and why the last one made

Spoiler

Sophie grow

.
-

Spoiler

Lambda

is still within Asbel?
- Sword of Legendia. Love that freaking weapon. Legendia has my favorite Tales logo.
- The ƒ arc ending is much better

In point-form:

Spoiler

-No.
-Little Queen is the manifestation of Fodra's consciousness (so if you know about the Gaia Hypothesis, you'll kinda get what Graces was getting at). She wants to restore life by getting rid of humans and she needs a host in order to do it (Sophie--because the scientists tried to harness her power as part of Sophie's final design). She splits copies from herself to battle the party. All of the Little Queens just merge into the Fodra Queen to create a stronger entity to do battle with the party.
-Sophie and the Fodra Queen combined powers and ended up creating a modified being which is still Sophie, but just older and looking more like the Fodra Queen. Also, because Sophie combined her powers with the Fodra Queen, she can now express her feelings and is able to cry.
-Lambda is still within Asbel. He's just asleep.
-All of the Tales cameo weapons were pretty cool!
-Yeah, the future arc ending is better. Makes me wonder how the vanilla Graces players felt at the end

 

[Sagitario]

During both plat runs, I had to do F Arc twice. It's more bearable on the second run because you'll have gone through the Zone Cage.

I posted what I did here.

I was trying to find that post but couldn't find it from my phone. Thanks!
I hope after I am done with the ƒ arc quests and gathering, I am ready enough to beat her without replaying it.

In point-form:

Spoiler

-No.
-Little Queen is the manifestation of Fodra's consciousness (so if you know about the Gaia Hypothesis, you'll kinda get what Graces was getting at). She wants to restore life by getting rid of humans and she needs a host in order to do it (Sophie--because the scientists tried to harness her power as part of Sophie's final design). She splits copies from herself to battle the party. All of the Little Queens just merge into the Fodra Queen to create a stronger entity to do battle with the party.
-Sophie and the Fodra Queen combined powers and ended up creating a modified being which is still Sophie, but just older and looking more like the Fodra Queen. Also, because Sophie combined her powers with the Fodra Queen, she can now express her feelings and is able to cry.
-Lambda is still within Asbel. He's just asleep.
-All of the Tales cameo weapons were pretty cool!
-Yeah, the future arc ending is better. Makes me wonder how the vanilla Graces players felt at the end

- It would have been cool
- I guess that makes sense.
- So,

Spoiler

Fodra Queen

was separated: her

Spoiler

heart

went to

Spoiler

Lambda

and the rest to

Spoiler

Sophie

.
- The power of nature! F YEAH!

Spoiler

- Yeah, the first thing that came to my mind: I wonder how Wii-only owners (that cared about Graces' story) would feel about this? Main arc ending was really... meh.
That said, I wouldn't mind playing a sequel: same systems (just improved), playing with the

Spoiler

great-great-grandson

and other descendants,

Spoiler

Sophie

and the new

Spoiler

Lambda host

.
I know that's silly because the ƒ arc is a mini-sequel, Xillia 2 is incorporating Graces stuff and there are already too many direct sequels for now (and Graces' story and characters aren't its strong points).

 

[Sagitario]

I got all the doppelgänger titles (with the exception of the arcane gear, everything was easily gathered or I already had enough materials).

Richard has 80+ titles.

I got all the magic cartas of the ƒ arc (except the ones dropped by those 3 bosses in the extra dungeon).

I defeated Poisson.

I got the Fodra Queen trophy. The "cheap" way, cause I seriously don't want to do the ƒ arc again.
With more than 132* hours invested in this title, I want to be done with it already (before I get back to work). I don't know how you did it, Schala... seriously! D: Tell me you're rich and have all the free time in the world and you only own this game to play >_<
* That's what the in-game clock says, but I have easily played 150 hours, with all the resetting, replaying parts, etc.

Unless I am missing something important in the ƒ arc (any tips with this? Easily overlooked stuff? Because I think I am done), I should move on already.

- The extra dungeon
- The inn requests
- 9999 Eleth Mixer
- Final Lamba in 60 seconds
- Gentlemanly triumph
- The 3 trophies related to the Zhonecage

 

[Dark Schala]

You played the future arc again? That was quick!

Did you get the Fodra Queen with the titles that enable the character to take damage and give it back, then?

Did you get the (main arc) final boss difficulty trophies?

- Yeah, the first thing that came to my mind: I wonder how Wii-only owners (that cared about Graces' story) would feel about this? Main arc ending was really... meh.
That said, I wouldn't mind playing a sequel: same systems (just improved), playing with the

Spoiler

great-great-grandson

and other descendants,

Spoiler

Sophie

and the new

Spoiler

Lambda host

.
I know that's silly because the &#402; arc is a mini-sequel, Xillia 2 is incorporating Graces stuff and there are already too many direct sequels for now (and Graces' story and characters aren't its strong points).

The main arc ending didn't do much for me because

Spoiler

everyone ended up going their separate ways and you didn't have some stuff being resolved like they were in the future arc. Yeah, I'm referring to pairings a little bit.

And that's a very good question! What happens to Lambda after Asbel dies? It'd be nice if that question were answered in a sequel taking place in a distant time, but I don't think they'll do something like that. Xillia sold far more anyway/had higher preorder numbers, so in hindsight, it was kind of obvious that one was going to get a sequel, but I didn't think it would've been so soon.

I wouldn't say there are too many sequels in Tales... We've got Destiny 2, Symphonia 2, and now Xillia 2.

But if you think about the whole Phantasia/Symphonia/Narikiri/Summoner's Lineage stuff, those could be considered as sequels too.