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[remnant]

It actually has a plot for one.

To finish Batman Begins?

I've never bought the Avengers doesn't have stakes excuse and I am not sure I would hold this movie as a paragon on how it should be done. Considering how much they botched, I'm far more excited for what Marvel doing with their film universe than what Nolan's wants to do with Man of Steel and Justice league.

 

[Sojgat]

Interesting no one has yet commented on Ms. Kyle being a lesbian

Jen is very similar to/maybe based on Holly Robinson a lesbian prostitute who lived with Selina while she herself was also a prostitute. She's like Selina's sidekick/best friend. They aren't lovers, Selina isn't a lesbian. What's going on in the movie is completely vague, Jen is a girl who hangs around Selina and helps with her criminal activities. Can't really glean much else from what's in the film.

 

[Branduil]

I do have to say that the pit was pretty oversold as "hell on earth." It didn't really seem that bad. You even get free cable and rock climbing.

 

[zethren]

I think the difference there is that they are literally trying to BE Batman rather than acting within their capabilities. Like they can act like Batman but they don't have the tech to back it up.

Try to stop a robbery in progress or help that old lady cross the street or whatever by all means but that doesn't mean you can be badass like Batman just because you throw together a costume.

And the copycats were also putting themselves in very dangerous situations, facing off against the mob and even Scarecrow at the beginning of TDK. As they were, the copycats ended up just being a nuisance because batman had to worry about saving them and at the same time stop the criminals.

Plus, they were using guns.

No guns. No killing.

 

[Tekniqs]

I have a couple of questions for you guys. In your point of view.

Did Batman hang up his cowl because there was no crime left to fight? Or because Rachel died and he died with her? I know what the movie insinuates but I wanted to get Gafs point of view.

in TDK he started building towards a Gotham that would no longer need Batman...I think that's why he quit

 

[remnant]

The reboot should not be an origin story. We don't need that again. Start it off in a new universe (I'm hoping for something more fantastic, but still gritty like the tone of Batman TAS or the Arkham games) where Batman is already established and Gotham already has its fair share of super villains.

Looking at an animated film like the Under the Redhood is good. Joker, Ras Al Ghul, Batman, and Robin are already established, but the lesser known things (like there being multiple Robin's) is explained to the audience so they don't get too lost.

Either that or just go for Batman Beyond.

Or god forbid don't do batman anymore. Explore the DC universe past batman/superman.

 

[Deleted member 30609]

I agree, except for the slight retcon Batman does at the beginning of TDK.

'What makes gives you the right? What's the difference between you and us?'
'I'M NOT WEARING HOCKEY PANTSSSSH'

If you ain't got the real deal billionaire-dollar R&D dept + years of ninja training, you can go and get fucked! That's what TDK tells you.

I don't think you're reading the ending correctly. It isn't that Blake will wear the same suit and use the same gadgets and be the same Batman, it's that he will be inspired by what he finds and become his own version of Batman. That's the entire point of this Batman. It isn't about the specifics of how it's done, it's about why it's done.

 

[rdrr gnr]

Nolan's approach to the source material remains the best, IMO. I despise the Marvel films aside from the original Iron Man and Norton's Hulk. I know I probably couldn't defend that position in a meaningful exchange, but if they do reboot the series -- it will be more lighthearted -- as it's hard to go darker. I find this unfortunate. I'd say these Batman films are more flawed than the Marvel films but they are about x100 times more ambitious and have more depth. No way that is happening again.

 

[Tookay]

Considering he trusted Catwoman in the third act when she fucked him over every single time he met her previously, Talia with a device that he knew was dangerous in the wrong hands for no reason and Blake with the legacy of the cowl after only having met him briefly twice, no, it's not.

If anything, Bruce acted pretty out of character in this movie compared with his portrayal in BB/TDK.

He went from paranoid about his identity and trusting others to pretty much spilling the beans and giving the keys to the kingdom off very little contact with supposed allies.

 

[remnant]

I don't think you're reading the ending correctly. It isn't that Blake will wear the same suit and use the same gadgets and be the same Batman, it's that he will be inspired by what he finds and become his own version of Batman. That's the entire point of this Batman. It isn't about the specifics of how it's done, it's about why it's done.

That is a stretch

 

[IamMattFox]

I don't know if the buildup was good, considering how they waltz in there in literally a minute (I know it was a trap), but the fight itself was well-done. Didn't think Nolan had that in him.

Ha, true. Okay, the immediate tension created when that gate slammed down gave me goosebumps. "Miiisssster Waayne."

I think that's more like it, Mr. Wayne.

But yeah, I knew Batman was going to get it handed to him in that scene, but watching it happen was pretty incredible.

That is a stretch

Not really. Blake was doing his own version of Batmanning while the city was locked down. Sure, it was on a much smaller scale, but he was doing work.

 

[XANDER CAGE]

I do have to say that the pit was pretty oversold as "hell on earth." It didn't really seem that bad. You even get free cable and rock climbing.

And everyone seemed fairly mellow and friendly.

The general vibe I'm getting from this movie/my own feelings is that it's pretty analogous to Return of the Jedi. "It's good, but..."

 

[Deleted member 30609]

If anything, Bruce acted pretty out of character in this movie compared with his portrayal in BB/TDK.

He went from paranoid about his identity and trusting others to pretty much spilling the beans and giving the keys to the kingdom off very little contact with supposed allies.

He's eight years older. He realizes as he gets older and loses people that he won't live forever. That's -- not to be too snide -- you know, character development.

 

[Tookay]

Ha, true. Okay, the immediate tension created when that gate slammed down gave me goosebumps.

I think that's more like it, Mr. Wayne.

tdkbrucethumbsup.jpg

 

[KeeSomething]

Or god forbid don't do batman anymore. Explore the DC universe past batman/superman.

Batman is DC's biggest IP. It's not going away.

I would like to see The Flash, though.

 

[ThisWreckage]

I actually like Burton's Batman films and I like Nolan's Batman films. Why can't there be an adaptation that falls squarely in between those two visions?

 

[Wilbur]

Also the best Bane delivered line in the whole film was when he said "crashing this plaaaaane"

Damn that was fucking eerie

 

[Fixed2BeBroken]

Oh, boy, I can tell this is going to be another one of "those movies" for GAF. You know, the ones that are actually very good, but are shit on repeatedly because it's the cool, contrarian thing to do.

I should probably stay away from further GAF discussions of this movie.

After watching it....this.

I loved this movie, and the thing I loved the most is the theme and how it flows with the themes from the previous movies. It all flows/works/makes sense.

and my opinion is, after seeing this....is that this batman trilogy is the best trilogy of ALL trilogies.

just my opinion of course.

 

[zethren]

If anything, Bruce acted pretty out of character in this movie compared with his portrayal in BB/TDK.

He went from paranoid about his identity and trusting others to pretty much spilling the beans and giving the keys to the kingdom off very little contact with supposed allies.

The way I felt about it was that he's simply done, and this is his last hurrah and he knows it. He has people around him that he doesn't know very well, but has no choice but to trust the good he sees in them (batman has faith in people, and all that) lest he fail to save Gotham.

Batman was a tragic character this run around, to be sure.

 

[Tookay]

He's eight years older. He realizes as he gets older and loses people that he won't live forever. That's -- not to be too snide -- you know, character development.

I understand that - in fact that's a fine arc to take - but I just didn't feel like those characters earned the trust he gave. Not after essentially two or three interactions with them.

Especially with how quick he was to forgive Catwoman's betrayal practically crippling him.

 

[remnant]

He's eight years older. He realizes as he gets older and loses people that he won't live forever. That's -- not to be too snide -- you know, character development.

Really stretching. He knows JGL over a few weeks, Selina Kyle even less. He gives Talia a nuclear weapon.

Nolan's approach to the source material remains the best, IMO. I despise the Marvel films aside from the original Iron Man and Norton's Hulk. I know I probably couldn't defend that position in a meaningful exchange, but if they do reboot the series -- it will be more lighthearted -- as it's hard to go darker. I find this unfortunate. I'd say these Batman films are more flawed than the Marvel films but they are about x100 times more ambitious and have more depth. No way that is happening again.

Maybe on an individual film basis Nolan is better but as a whole I don't see how marvel isn't closer and far more ambitious.

 

[Hero]

He's eight years older. He realizes as he gets older and loses people that he won't live forever. That's -- not to be too snide -- you know, character development.

How is that character development at all when it goes against everything in the first and second movies that he was? It's not portrayed at all. This is really grasping here.

The way I felt about it was that he's simply done, and this is his last hurrah and he knows it. He has people around him that he doesn't know very well, but has no choice but to trust the good he sees in them (batman has faith in people, and all that) lest he fail to save Gotham.

Batman was a tragic character this run around, to be sure.

Except Batman doesn't have faith in people to the extent you're talking about. Have you read Tower of Babel or seen Justice League: Doom where he creates a contingency plan for every single Justice League member if they ever go rogue or turn evil? How is that trust? Or how about in the comics when he totally snubs Zatanna by saying "I needed someone I could trust but I had to settle for you." Batman is a fucking asshole.

 

[Deleted member 30609]

That is a stretch

I think reading the ending ultra literally is more of stretch, honestly.

 

[Xrenity]

That is a stretch

It's really not.

 

[rdrr gnr]

Batman is DC's biggest IP. It's not going away.

I would like to see The Flash, though.

Martian Manhunter, please.

Also the best Bane delivered line in the whole film was when he said "crashing this plaaaaane"

Damn that was fucking eerie

That wasn't his best line. It was his line right before he kills the banker guy. It escapes me now, but I was, like, "damn" in the theaters. What was it? Do you feel in charge?

 

[Deleted member 30609]

I'm not talking about the specifics. Trusting Catwoman was super weird. I just mean the general change from ultra guarded to slightly more comfortable with letting it slip. He's literally eight years older. That's a long ass time.

 

[Korey]

I think reading the ending ultra literally is more of stretch, honestly.

I don't think it could have been made more clear or literal, tbh. Other than JGL being all "Now, as my real name indicates, I am ROBIN, Batman's successor, even though I've interacted with him a total of three times" as he ascended from the batcave lift.

 

[Sojgat]

If anything, Bruce acted pretty out of character in this movie compared with his portrayal in BB/TDK.

He went from paranoid about his identity and trusting others to pretty much spilling the beans and giving the keys to the kingdom off very little contact with supposed allies.

I agree, he was never the great detective of the comics in either of Nolan's first two films, but he was still portrayed as being a smart guy. In TDKR he's an overly trusting moron, which doesn't just fly in the face of what's been established about his character outside of the Nolan film fiction but also inside of it.

 

[Rokam]

Martian Manhunter, please.

Should have released a Manhunter movie this year to coincide with the 100th birthday of Oreos.

 

[rdrr gnr]

I thought he was amused/impressed with Catwoman before anything. That eased him into trusting her, eventually.

 

[Hero]

I'm not talking about the specifics. Trusting Catwoman was super weird. I just mean the general change from ultra guarded to slightly more comfortable with letting it slip. He's literally eight years older. That's a long ass time.

You said it was character development. He had a hell of a lot more reason to trust Gordon because they worked together for years and they have history. Catwoman steals his mom's pearl necklace, steals his fucking car, steals his fingerprints to give to Bane and causes him to go bankrupt, lures him into a trap fight with Bane where his back is broken even after saving her life on the rooftop and somehow Batman still has faith in her to do the right thing just because he witnessed her preventing a kid from getting beaten up? That's not development at all.

 

[Tookay]

I agree, he was never the great detective of the comics in either of Nolan's first two films, but he was still portrayed as being a smart guy. In TDKR he's an overly trusting moron, which doesn't just fly in the face of what's been established about his character outside of the Nolan film fiction but also inside of it.

Well said.

It just sort of pisses me off that he's so chummy with Selina, someone who: a) steals his mother's jewelry, b) kicks his cane out from under him, c) steals his car, d) betrays him and nearly has him fucking killed, e) generally is an ass to him except for a change of heart (one scene of which he isn't even present for).

EDIT: lol Hero took the words right out of my mouth.

 

[thetrin]

Martian Manhunter, please.

I'd MUCH rather see a good Flash movie.

 

[Deleted member 30609]

You said it was character development. He had a hell of a lot more reason to trust Gordon because they worked together for years and they have history. Catwoman steals his mom's pearl necklace, steals his fucking car, steals his fingerprints to give to Bane and causes him to go bankrupt, lures him into a trap fight with Bane where his back is broken even after saving her life on the rooftop and somehow Batman still has faith in her to do the right thing just because he witnessed her preventing a kid from getting beaten up? That's not development at all.

Within the movie? I need to watch it again and let it sit with me for a time before being confident about arguing about the specifics either way. If you look at the character across the three movies, it's development, sure. My point was that he isn't and shouldn't be the same person he was during BB/TDK.

I don't disagree with anything you've said here on face value. Maybe I misread the original post I replied too.

 

[Aselith]

Something we can all agree on. This song is so awesome, dudes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0yXWXGa2_4

 

[remnant]

I think reading the ending ultra literally is more of stretch, honestly.

But in the seriousness of Nolan's universe, that kind of the only way you can read it.

How it's done is vitally important. Hell it's the entire point of the first movie.

Bruce trains for years with a dangerous sect of assassins and barely survives. Blake just finds the cave and become his own version of batman, never going thru that trial by fire.

Even if you accept that narrative, how does that reflect on other robins and how the comics have approached the idea of following up Bruce. It's a weak ending.

They should have had Bruce stay in Gotham. Continue being Batman. That is the tragedy of the character right there, but considering all the things Nolan missed this time I'm not that surprised.

 

[ShinobiFist]

After watching it....this.

I loved this movie, and the thing I loved the most is the theme and how it flows with the themes from the previous movies. It all flows/works/makes sense.

and my opinion is, after seeing this....is that this batman trilogy is the best trilogy of ALL trilogies.

just my opinion of course.

word. the way he tied everything up in the was so smooth. The score went so well with the movie, it was amazing.

 

[rdrr gnr]

I'd MUCH rather see a good Flash movie.

Flash is almost worse than Aquaman. Flash needs to be "Hawkeye-d" in.

 

[remnant]

I thought he was amused/impressed with Catwoman before anything. That eased him into trusting her, eventually.

It came off to me like another "I looked into your eyes and saw the real you" like they did with Blake.

I think the ballroom scene was supposed to be where the audience bought into the idea that Bruce should trust her because she pleads her case, but yeah ultimately Bruce trusting her was just odd.

 

[Hero]

Within the movie? I need to watch it again and let it sit with me for a time before being confident about arguing about the specifics either way. If you look at the character across the three movies, it's development, sure.

So going from being a secluded lone vigilante in the first two movies to being a trustworthy dumbass in the last movie is development now? Did you like the original ending to Mass Effect 3 by any chance?

 

[KeeSomething]

Flash is almost worse than Aquaman. Flash needs to be "Hawkeye-d" in.

...No.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eElrjr4Eb9Q

Flash is like a more comedic version of Batman. Flash is the hero we deserve, but we may not need him right now with everything having to be realistic and gritty now.

But, yeah. Batman Beyond puhleeez!

 

[Deleted member 30609]

But in the seriousness of Nolan's universe, that kind of the only way you can read it.

How it's done is vitally important. Hell it's the entire point of the first movie.

Bruce trains for years with a dangerous sect of assassins and barely survives. Blake just finds the cave and become his own version of batman, never going thru that trial by fire.

Even if you accept that narrative, how does that reflect on other robins and how the comics have approached the idea of following up Bruce. It's a weak ending.

They should have had Bruce stay in Gotham. Continue being Batman. That is the tragedy of the character right there, but considering all the things Nolan missed this time I'm not that surprised.

I mean, you're welcome to think this, it was left vague for a reason, but I just... I don't think the writers sat down and thought "ok, we expect the audience to believe that Blake will be the same Batman and that he will just learn years of ninja-skills on the side, no big".

 

[rdrr gnr]

It came off to me like another "I looked into your eyes and saw the real you" like they did with Blake.

I think the ballroom scene was supposed to be where the audience bought into the idea that Bruce should trust her because she pleads her case, but yeah ultimately Bruce trusting her was just odd.

Well, I might have been more accepting because you can see her shit-tier character arc from the parking lot. I guess I reconciled it in retrospect.

"Of course he can trust her. She'll come around -- no shit."

 

[IamMattFox]

...No.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eElrjr4Eb9Q

Flash is like a more comedic version of Batman. Flash is the hero we deserve, but we may not need him right now with everything having to be realistic and gritty now.

But, yeah. Batman Beyond puhleeez!

I loved Flash in that show. He was the heart of the group.

 

[RBelong2Us]

So going from being a secluded lone vigilante in the first two movies to being a trustworthy dumbass in the last movie is development now? Did you like the original ending to Mass Effect 3 by any chance?

Thats like the whole point of the film, putting faith in others and knowing that justice can continue without him.

 

[Tekniqs]

Something we can all agree on. This song is so awesome, dudes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0yXWXGa2_4

I've had this song on repeat for about a week now...when the guys in the prison started chanting it I was all JackNicholson.gif

 

[Hero]

A movie Batman Beyond would probably be mostly like Iron Man with some banter between Terry (or whoever) and Old Bruce back in the cave. I'd watch it but not sure it would really bring in crowds like Nolan's Batman universe did.

Edit:

Thats like the whole point of the film, putting faith in others. This movie is as much about Wayne as it is about the supporting characters.

And that's what I'm saying, it's uncharacteristic of Batman to put faith/trust in others.

"You've literally fucked me over every opportunity I've given you to prove yourself that you're not a backstabbing thief but it's okay, I know you're a good person deep down inside. Here's the keys to my sweet bike with lethal weapons and explosives."

 

[Fixed2BeBroken]

word. the way he tied everything up in the was so smooth. The score went so well with the movie, it was amazing.

the one person I can count on to have a similar opinion...my man shinobifist. < daps >

fuck these nerdy haters dawg. lol they cant enjoy shit.

 

[Deleted member 30609]

So going from being a secluded lone vigilante in the first two movies to being a trustworthy dumbass in the last movie is development now? Did you like the original ending to Mass Effect 3 by any chance?

You're either projecting an argument you think I'm making onto my posts or I'm doing a super bad job at articulating myself. It's probably a mix of both.

I'm not trying to insult you. Get off your battle horse.

 

[Rokam]

the one person I can count on to have a similar opinion...my man shinobifist. < daps >

fuck these nerdy haters dawg. lol they cant enjoy shit.

I want to be part of the club!!!