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[Tookay]

The flashback stuff though is sort of indicative of the problem with trying to tie a movie so much into what's come before.

Before BB and TDK are fairly standalone. TDK never pulled that flashback stuff, didn't have to.

If you don't trust your audience enough to remember shit, then maybe that's a sign you're leaning too heavily on things from the last film.

 

[Hero]

Avengers didn't because there was no drama involved with those characters. Nolan was trying a lot more and couldn't juggle it all but at least he tried.

All Whedon had to do was throw a bunch of dudes in a room and make them argue, watch some useless agent die and then rally them all together to fight.

Nolan had to deal with more.

The difference is Nolan used creative liberty to change Bane, Talia and Catwoman to fit whatever role he needed them for in his movie and Blake was an entirely new character that aside from drawing inspirations from the Robin incarnations was a blank canvas for him to do what he needed. Whedon didn't have the liberty over changing characters to fit his movie with perhaps the exception of the Hulk.

Yep, the sky was the limit in what they could do with these new characters, yet they're all fairly cookie-cutter and inessential.

Yeah, agreed.

You don't get points for trying to juggle things. Their were a lot of directions and what we got was pretty weak. Dropping some characters would have helped.

Exactly. I don't really care about Blake that much to see him get as much screen time as he did. Same thing with Catwoman considering the only good thing she did was at the end of the movie with the kid about to get beat up. Would like to see statistics for how much screen time each character got in TDKR. It's probably really offensive considering Alfred was absent for literally 2/3rds of the movie.

He could via Alfred since he got everything. Except the intelligence obviously but you necessarily have to be equal to Batman to fill his shoes.

I don't think Alfred would give anywhere near the same amount of care or devotion to Blake, reasonably so. I doubt he really wants to continue being the butler for another young hothead.

 

[HK-47]

He could via Alfred since he got everything.

Alfred cant give him the training or the education Bruce had. And Wayne Tech got pretty fucked financially, though thats pretty simple to write off I suppose.

 

[Raide]

He could via Alfred since he got everything.

Everything? Not a huge amount left, even the house is gone. Unless Alfred is expected to bring Wayne Enterprises back from the ashes, which I really don't see happening. I guess the main questions is what else Bruce Wayne had dotted around the world. His business in Gotham cannot be the only one right?

 

[IamMattFox]

Why would anyone put faith in someone who repeatedly fucked you over? Because its what the movie needs to justify Catwoman hanging around thats why.

While she and Bruce were dancing, didn't she claim that she was doing more to help people out than he was?

Nolan could have had Bruce catch her doing some Robin Hood shit with her money (funding the orphanage?) whilst dropping her coy Catwoman voice and just being Selina in personality to show that she's a decent person. That would have worked somewhat, I think.

I'm able to suspend my disbelief in regards to him trusting Blake though.

 

[Aselith]

Alfred cant give him the training or the education Bruce had. And Wayne Tech got pretty fucked financially.

It got fucked temporarily. Those are fraudulent trades that can and will be reversed.

 

[Hero]

I mean, I guess Alfred might be able to Youtube some League of Assassin's training videos.

But that's all tonight for me, will sleep on it for more discussion tomorrow.

 

[HK-47]

Everything? Not a huge amount left, even the house is gone. Unless Alfred is expected to bring Wayne Enterprises back from the ashes, which I really don't see happening. I guess the main questions is what else Bruce Wayne had dotted around the world. His business in Gotham cannot be the only one right?

Wayne Tech is his business. Any assets in other companies like would have been used to pay for debts. Probably has some money tucked away in some offshore bank account though.

 

[Korey]

Alfred cant give him the training or the education Bruce had. And Wayne Tech got pretty fucked financially, though thats pretty simple to write off I suppose.

Alfred also can't give him training to not be a horribad character

 

[Razgriz-Specter]

Can anyone tell me what tracks these bits of music are in?

Batman's first intro
Bruce climbing out
the bat flying out of the smoke at the end

 

[Aselith]

I mean, I guess Alfred might be able to Youtube some League of Assassin's training videos.

But that's all tonight for me, will sleep on it for more discussion tomorrow.

You don't have to be the equal of Bruce to fight criminals and the dude was already a detective.

With some training plus the toys he could be a poorman's Batman which could make for an interesting concept for a guy trying to fill shoes that he can't possibly.

 

[Raide]

Wayne Tech is his business. Any assets in other companies like would have been used to pay for debts. Probably has some money tucked away in some offshore bank account though.

I was kinda surprised when they said he lost everything. Even if it was fraud, I did think "Really?"

Overall I think the Joker was a better realised enemy. Bane seemed pretty flimsy, thought I did enjoy the build-up for the city getting taken over but they hardly had enough interaction between Batman and Bane.

DEATH BY EXILE!

 

[Aselith]

DEATH BY EXILE!

Best line in the movie!

 

[HK-47]

I was kinda surprised when they said he lost everything. Even if it was fraud, I did think "Really?"

Overall I think the Joker was a better realised enemy. Bane seemed pretty flimsy, thought I did enjoy the build-up for the city getting taken over but they hardly had enough interaction between Batman and Bane.

DEATH BY EXILE!

yeah it kinda seems weird that the same time the gotham stock market got hit by terrorists, Bruce Wayne made a bunch of psychotic transactions. And then at the end he is still broke and has to sell off things due to debts incurred by said transactions.

 

[Raide]

Best line in the movie!

Kinda glad he appeared but just some token showing left me a bit disappointed.

 

[FeD.nL]

Why didn't the bomb take 9 months. Would have been awesome if we had a movie with JGL as batman assisted by Damian Wayne as Robin with Bruce as their mentor... Ah well

 

[HK-47]

Why didn't the bomb take 9 months. Would have been awesome if we had a movie with JGL as batman assisted by Damian Wayne as Robin with Bruce as their mentor... Ah well

Because it took five. Thats literally the reason. They just choose an amount of time and that was it.

 

[Kickz]

Just rrecently got out of the theatre for a midnight showing, liked the movie overall although its much weaker than BB and DK.

Guys I was confused on the Robin joke/reveal> What was that about?? Is his name Robin, is he THE ROBIN, or a Batman replacement??

Also thought it was fucked up of Bruce to not let Alfred know he was not dead..

I did not like the pit of death at all and Bane became useless after the late reveal..

 

[FeD.nL]

Because it took five. Thats literally the reason. They just choose an amount of time and that was it.

I know, but when Talia revealed herself I was kinda rooting for her to make it out alive. Her and Bruce all cozy at the fire 5 months prior.

 

[Wilbur]

Now we're three.

Glad to have DM on our BB bandwagon.

guys me too me too

 

[SCULLIBUNDO]

Escalation.

 

[Symphonic]

Just rrecently got out of the theatre for a midnight showing, liked the movie overall although its much weaker than BB and DK.

Guys I was confused on the Robin joke/reveal> What was that about?? Is his name Robin, is he THE ROBIN, or a Batman replacement??

Also thought it was fucked up of Bruce to not let Alfred know he was not dead..

I did not like the pit of death at all and Bane became useless after the late reveal..

But he did...

 

[friskykillface]

That guy Dagget(probably spelled wrong i think) had such a horrible voice, made me cringe when he talked but made me lol when he said "I AM NOT RUNNING WAYNE INDUSTRIES!!!!!"



I still think Bane's voice was awesome B^)

 

[Kickz]

But he did...

Well Alfred figured it out later at the restaurant but that was after he was blubbering infront of the graves.

 

[Symphonic]

Well Alfred figured it out later at the restaurant but that was after he was blubbering infront of the graves.

Well I mean Bruce intentionally faked his/Batman's death. Alfred had to believe it was true for some amount of time, that was unavoidable.

 

[Router]

Why didn't the bomb take 9 months. Would have been awesome if we had a movie with JGL as batman assisted by Damian Wayne as Robin with Bruce as their mentor... Ah well

what?

 

[BurnOutBrighter]

Just rrecently got out of the theatre for a midnight showing, liked the movie overall although its much weaker than BB and DK.

Guys I was confused on the Robin joke/reveal> What was that about?? Is his name Robin, is he THE ROBIN, or a Batman replacement??

Also thought it was fucked up of Bruce to not let Alfred know he was not dead..

I did not like the pit of death at all and Bane became useless after the late reveal..

Whether he's the next "Batman" or "Robin" isn't important. What matters is that he'll carry the torch and be the next protector of Gotham City.

Several clues for him to be "Batman" though, such as the Bat Signal being fixed. And of course he is "rising" when he steps on that platform.

 

[SCULLIBUNDO]

Well I mean Bruce intentionally faked his/Batman's death. Alfred had to believe it was true for some amount of time, that was unavoidable.

Did he? He managed to let Gordon know he was alive. But Alfred? Fuck Alfred.

Fuck that whole bullshit argument they had. They're such tight bros that there is no way Bruce would tell Alfred to fuck off over that crap. Bruce isn't a fourteen year old throwing a tantrum. He's a goddamn adult who would completely understand why Alfred did what he did. When Alfred started explaining about the letter I was wondering wtf Nolan was thinking. Completely unnecessary.

'You have to move on'
'Why? Rachel didn't move on. She was going to wait for me.'

Well it's a bit hard for Rachel to move on now since she's fucking DEAD.

You really expect me to believe Bruce is that stupid?

Was it just me or did it seem like Nolan had watched Good Will Hunting before writing the script?

 

[Mike Works]

Just saw it. Thought it was very good, but TDK still ranks tops for me. Hardy did a great job as Bane, but the fact is that his character was an extremely menacing antagonist, whereas The Joker was an extremely entertaining antagonist. So while Hardy played the character wonderfully, his scenes in general just weren't as entertaining as watching something like The Joker, or even Scarecrow from BB.

I loved all of the scenes from India, flashbacks and current.

I thought Marion Cotillard's character was mishandled.

The script was a little muddled when it came to Catwoman's background and Bane's 99% motivations. It was clearly meant to all mix together, but it felt sloppy to me.

This is totally nitpicky, but I kind of wanted a little closure with Scarecrow!

Have a bunch of other opinions, but I'm going to mull the flick over for a bit.

 

[Radec]

Well Alfred figured it out later at the restaurant but that was after he was blubbering infront of the graves.

He had to. Or else Fox, Gordon, and Blake would have found out the truth as well.

And Blake wouldnt become what he's supposed to be if he knew Bruce is still alive.

 

[SCULLIBUNDO]

He had to. Or else Fox, Gordon, and Blake would have found out the truth as well.

And Blake wouldnt become what he's supposed to be if he knew Bruce is still alive.

Erm, Fox knows Bruce is alive. As does Gordon.

 

[Bumhead]

Did he? He managed to let Gordon know he was alive. But Alfred? Fuck Alfred.

Fuck that whole bullshit argument they had. They're such tight bros that there is no way Bruce would tell Alfred to fuck off over that crap. Bruce isn't a fourteen year old throwing a tantrum. He's a goddamn adult who would completely understand why Alfred did what he did. When Alfred started explaining about the letter I was wondering wtf Nolan was thinking. Completely unnecessary.

'You have to move on'
'Why? Rachel didn't move on. She was going to wait for me.'

Well it's a bit hard for Rachel to move on now since she's fucking DEAD.

You really expect me to believe Bruce is that stupid?

Was it just me or did it seem like Nolan had watched Good Will Hunting before writing the script?

Well seeing as the entire premise of the film upto that point was how reclusive and emotionally drained Bruce was after the events of TDK, including losing Rachel, I think it's quite easy to understand all that.

People don't behave rationally in grief. Especially when that grief is as tormenting as the opening premise of film led us to believe it was for Bruce Wayne.

 

[Router]

He had to. Or else Fox, Gordon, and Blake would have found out the truth as well.

And Blake wouldnt become what he's supposed to be if he knew Bruce is still alive.

Fox knows and lets face it, Blake will figure it out sooner rather than later.

 

[SCULLIBUNDO]

Fox knows and lets face it, Blake will figure it out sooner rather than later.

For real. Blake is the greatest detective ever. He knew Bruce was Batman because he saw him smiling once. That is some fucking intuition if I ever saw it.

 

[Boogie9IGN]

Can't wait to watch it again this week. I thought Nolan was gonna fuck with us by fading to black when Alfred nods his head at the cafe but thank god he went all the way hahaha Hardy was pretty damn good, props to him

 

[IamMattFox]

For real. Blake is the greatest detective ever. He knew Bruce was Batman because he saw him smiling once. That is some fucking intuition if I ever saw it.

Nolan was rocking the flashbacks in full force anyway, I thought for sure Blake was going to reveal himself to be the kid who met Bats twice in Begins. Sure he was riddled with fear toxin the second time but he's a scrapper, he could remember Rachel calling him Bruce after he reveals himself.

 

[SCULLIBUNDO]

Nolan was rocking the flashbacks in full force anyway, I thought for sure Blake was going to reveal himself to be the kid who met Bats twice in Begins. Sure he was riddled with fear toxin the second time but he's a scrapper, he could remember Rachel calling him Bruce after he reveals himself.

He was going to do that, but when he watched the clip he realized Katie Holmes was in the flashback and threw it in the Pearce bin.

 

[Randy Lanzarote]

Nolan was rocking the flashbacks in full force anyway, I thought for sure Blake was going to reveal himself to be the kid who met Bats twice in Begins. Sure he was riddled with fear toxin the second time but he's a scrapper, he could remember Rachel calling him Bruce after he reveals himself.

I would gladly have traded Jospeh Gordon-Levitt for King Joffrey just to see that happen.

 

[longdi]

film felt like a sloppy nolan effort, the 3rd act reminds me of spiderman3/tf2, things just happened and moved on, the best last 30mins in cinema? what the hell?

BB is better as comic hero movie.

 

[wind_steaker]

Remember the wording on the fraud earlier in the film... something along the lines of it being a "long term fraud investigation" and it would take time to fix. I reckon they could happily resurrect Wayne Enterprise for a future film.

 

[twofold]

Did he? He managed to let Gordon know he was alive. But Alfred? Fuck Alfred.

He did? I don't remember that.

 

[Cheebo]

lol why are people asking about Nightwing's future? There isn't going to be a 4th movie folks. It's going to get rebooted.

Did he? He managed to let Gordon know he was alive. But Alfred? Fuck Alfred.

Except he didn't? He never talked to Gordon after the bomb went off. The only person who semi-knew was Lucius because he saw the autopilot had been fixed.

 

[IamMattFox]

He was going to do that, but when he watched the clip he realized Katie Holmes was in the flashback and threw it in the Pearce bin.

Spoiler

Could have used the periscope scene. Silly Bruce forgets to file off the Wayne Enterprises logo. That silly Bruce.

Except he didn't? He never talked to Gordon after the bomb went off. The only person who semi-knew was Lucius because he saw the autopilot had been fixed.

The new Bat signal was his "Hey, I'm alright" to Gordon.

 

[Radec]

He did? I don't remember that.

Because it never happened.

 

[SCULLIBUNDO]

He did? I don't remember that.

You see Gordon go to the top of MCU to think over case files and then he notices the bat signal has been completely replaced with a brand spanking new one. He smiles and looks up and around as if looking for Batman, because he is the only one who could have snuck it on top of MCU without anybody noticing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9Eu6bkXdkY

 

[SCULLIBUNDO]

Minds being blown up in this bitch.

 

[IamMattFox]

Just like yours earlier?

 

[SCULLIBUNDO]

Just like yours earlier?

Yep.

 

[IamMattFox]

Watching that ending again, man, this film may be flawed, but I think all the payoff strongly outweighs the shortcomings.

 

[lucius]

I thought TDKR was much better than BB, but I never liked BB as much as many on GAF, I did enjoy it more on 2nd viewing though. Bane turned out much better than I thought he would, and the fights scenes with him and Batman were top notch, Tom Hardy's work on Warrior seems to have paid off going into this movie, and Nolan deserves credit for shooting it so well. Bane is a harder character to pull off than Joker in some ways since his face is half covered, but Hardy does great, likely won't win an Oscar but deserves credit for conveying total brute force of the character.

I had a bit of a problem with the scene with Alfred and Bruce where he is going to leave him, not sure if it was Michael Caine's fault or Nolan's but it was working at first, but seemed like it was a bit much, or the acting was off, or edited weird. Catwoman didn't do so much for me, she had her moments, but I think all the praise she was getting before I saw it had me expecting more.

I liked TDKR and TDK about the same, but I know already I will go see TDKR more than once in IMAX,and likely watch it more times on Blu-ray than any of the Batman movies. Ledger's Joker is still tops though.