I never got that "Sidekick" feeling though. She felt like a character in her own right.
REMEMBER the dArk knight rises UnmaRked spOileR threAd | You only legend once
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I never got that "Sidekick" feeling though. She felt like a character in her own right.
Ninja Scooter
Member
The Robin thing was really no different than "Mr. Reese" in Dark Knight. Nolan trolling.
He really feels a little too 90s to me.
FlashbladeGAF
Member
Bruce's story did end
Batman became what Bruce wanted from the very begining. A symbol, something bigger than him and now the torch has been passed.
And everybody needs someone. Even Batman... thats why he partnered up with Jim Gordon and Luscius Fox in the beginning to save Gotham in BB
and again in Rising.
Batman was there to inspire others to act. And they all did
EDIT: Beaten
Catwoman was portrayed just like she is in the comics/TAS (very well done Nolan... thought Anne was going to suck)
TestMonkey
Member
To start with I'll say that this is not an attempt at trolling but is my personal opinion.
Saw the movie earlier today and was hugely disappointed.
The whole point of Christopher Nolan's series was the real, gritty Batman. Extraordinary but not superhuman. Fights from the shadows, outsmarts his enemies, fights dirty. That stuff when right out the window right out the gate. Long story short here are some low lights that ruined the movie for me.
Please don't hurt me GAF.
Saw the movie earlier today and was hugely disappointed.
The whole point of Christopher Nolan's series was the real, gritty Batman. Extraordinary but not superhuman. Fights from the shadows, outsmarts his enemies, fights dirty. That stuff when right out the window right out the gate. Long story short here are some low lights that ruined the movie for me.
- Wayne goes from a broken man in the beginning of the film, to an even more broken man after fighting Bane to a perfect fighting specimen due to the wonders of 3rd world prison medicine.
- Fighting was garbage. When that gate came down and it was Batman vs Bane I was excited. Two students of Ra's Al Ghul throwing down. Should at least be similar to the fights in the first movie. Nope. Two equally sized men fight but Bane is clearly superior. No back and forth just Bane being badass. So badass in fact that Batman forgets all of his ninjutsu training and just becomes a brawler.
- Little girls can jump and reach further than grown men I guess.
- Batman dodges automatic fire while running directly at the gunman in a serpentine pattern.
- Story armor. When the cops are marching down the street with pistols and nightsticks vs mercenaries with automatic weapons there should have been a massacre. Robin is within a foot of a detonated explosive and he gets a little dusty. Gordon is in the shipping container and falls the same height as Talia and walks away. Batmobile shoots at Batcopter, no effect. Batcopter shoots Batmobile, big explosion. Many more examples.
- Neither Lucius Fox or Bruce Wayne put any protections on their vast array of weapons. No fail safes or basic security. And at the end when Robin gets into the cave and tada it's working.
- Dead billionaire makes a public appearance at tiny cafe in Italy.
Please don't hurt me GAF.
Let's discuss what would've happened to the movie if they took out Catwoman and Blake.
The scale would feel much smaller after TDK being an ensemble film. They could expand Alfred, Wayne, Fox, and Gordon roles in the movie to compensate, but it would feel much more like BB redux with the same central characters. The story would be definitely much more Bruce Wayne's story and less about the Batman symbol which is featured prominently in the movie (the kids looking up to Batman, Batman symbol being used etc.). The symbolism of Batman would lose some of its flavor because it didn't really inspire new characters (Catwoman obviously admired Batman). The movie would be also more compact and less messy.
I think they kinda had to do it to up the ante from TDK.
I'll only say that little quibbles like the stuff you list come from you not liking the film, rather than causing it. You can do it with anything.
Anyway, I had fun. I'm sorry you didn't. No hate here.
Why would it make any difference what fighting techniques Batman used in that sequence at all? In the beginning, Bane lets Batman do whatever he wants and nothing hurts Bane at all, and then Bane starts dishing out the punishment.
Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew
Banned
TestMonkey, I respect your opinion but you are questioning a movie with a guy dressed as a bat!
Few comments:
Bruce hasn't been fit for 8 years, and it reflects in his fighting. Weird that you comment on Bruce being broken and then pissing at his lack of fighting. Bruce gave his best during that scene and the exhaustion is reflected upon when he gets up and yells after falling down the bridge, and when he tosses those smoke bombs at Bane.
Little girls have a longer running start than grown men, thus: longer jump.
Tumbler never shot The Bat. Not even once. Talia died cause the truck crushed her; Gordon didn't cause it didn't.
Few comments:
Bruce hasn't been fit for 8 years, and it reflects in his fighting. Weird that you comment on Bruce being broken and then pissing at his lack of fighting. Bruce gave his best during that scene and the exhaustion is reflected upon when he gets up and yells after falling down the bridge, and when he tosses those smoke bombs at Bane.
Little girls have a longer running start than grown men, thus: longer jump.
Tumbler never shot The Bat. Not even once. Talia died cause the truck crushed her; Gordon didn't cause it didn't.
ProtoCents
Banned
So everyone thought that Bane sounded like Deckard Cain, right?
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
You're not alone, I posted a similarly large list when I got back from it last night. Disjointed mess in many ways. Mine was more focused on plot and pacing and general structure though.
Riposte
Member
Right now I like TDK more. Maybe not by a lot, the film obviously isn't much of a downgrade... ultimately there were too many heroes and too many villains. I think that is the film's critical flaw. This seems to becoming a common mistake for any film not built straight up as a team film. We didn't get the resolution with Bane or Talia we wanted (really their ends are worse than every other villain since the first film). Gordon and Robin were awesome, but maybe Gordon was too awesome and what Robin was going through at the end seemed like wasted screen time in retrospect. Catwoman made it out the best of the secondary characters.
I think I got too caught up in the hype that the second half was "sooo Batman!"(in the comic book sense) because it really wasn't. It sort made predict something incorrectly and I liked what I predicted better.
I was thinking when Talia revealed herself Bruce was going to be like "I know, I'm Batman". They showed us that he was looking at that scar... why is the audience so ahead of the world's greatest detective?
I mean the parallels to Batman RIP/Jezebel Jet seemed obvious, but they went for something different. Now I'm thinking... why the fuck does Bruce like this chick so much (as did everyone reading Batman RIP until that arc's amazing end)?
And I'll admit it... I'm a bit salty there wasn't a single mention of Joker. Ultimately his play with Dent didn't mean much. Bane had broken the city first.
I think I got too caught up in the hype that the second half was "sooo Batman!"(in the comic book sense) because it really wasn't. It sort made predict something incorrectly and I liked what I predicted better.
I was thinking when Talia revealed herself Bruce was going to be like "I know, I'm Batman". They showed us that he was looking at that scar... why is the audience so ahead of the world's greatest detective?
I mean the parallels to Batman RIP/Jezebel Jet seemed obvious, but they went for something different. Now I'm thinking... why the fuck does Bruce like this chick so much (as did everyone reading Batman RIP until that arc's amazing end)?
And I'll admit it... I'm a bit salty there wasn't a single mention of Joker. Ultimately his play with Dent didn't mean much. Bane had broken the city first.
FlashbladeGAF
Member
Batman Begins isnt all that gritty
Not as much as TDK makes you think it was
"Nice Coat"
"...Thannnnksss"
Razgriz-Specter
Member
Yeah lets take out two of the better characters in the movie....
I saw it again today, this time in IMAX.
I know I've been pretty down on the movie in this thread, but I enjoyed it a lot more the second time. The stupid plot contrivances and missed potential are still there, but the emotional beats hit me more this time.
I think a huge part of my problem at my midnight showing was the terrible sound mix at my theater. IMAX cleared up a lot of that stuff up and added a sense of pathos/urgency to what was sorely missing from my experience.
The other two films are still much better and this is probably Nolan's weakest film, but at least I can call TDKR a good (if flawed) movie, which is something I wouldn't have said a day ago.
I know I've been pretty down on the movie in this thread, but I enjoyed it a lot more the second time. The stupid plot contrivances and missed potential are still there, but the emotional beats hit me more this time.
I think a huge part of my problem at my midnight showing was the terrible sound mix at my theater. IMAX cleared up a lot of that stuff up and added a sense of pathos/urgency to what was sorely missing from my experience.
The other two films are still much better and this is probably Nolan's weakest film, but at least I can call TDKR a good (if flawed) movie, which is something I wouldn't have said a day ago.
FlashbladeGAF
Member
People act like Talia wasnt in the driver seat where most of the impact was focused
Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew
Banned
WELCOME TO "Second viewing made the move awesomer" club!
MrPink93485
Member
Bodes well for what is hopefully my repeat viewing tomorrow, though I still enjoyed it. Just felt it was the weakest of the 3.
Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew
Banned
Repeat viewing? It's going to be your favorite movie of the three; guaranteed!
thecouncil
Banned
sometimes 2 people are both in the front of the same car, get in an accident and only one of them dies.
ryutaro's mama
Member
This kinda response always feels like a cop out to me.
He was dressed as a bat in TDK and BB and I didn't have nearly the same amount of plot issues with those two movies.
Riposte
Member
Fuck... now I'm imagining a world where the third film plays out more like the end of Batman RIP with Heath Ledger alive... ugh, I got to stop thinking about this, it is upsetting.
EDIT: That dumbness aside... I disagree with the second half being better than the first half. I'm excluding the end... which was godlike. That final frame.
EDIT: That dumbness aside... I disagree with the second half being better than the first half. I'm excluding the end... which was godlike. That final frame.
Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew
Banned
I can sadly vouch for this. If its a head-on collision, backseat passenger has higher chances of surviving; seatbelt or no seatbelt.
MrPink93485
Member
Listening to 'Rise' around and I'm already imagining the ending. The emotional beats are gonna slay me this time around
FlashbladeGAF
Member
I knew nothing going in and for some odd reason they made me forget Talia ever existed.
I was kicking myself when she revealed herself. I was too focused on Bane and this being the Nolan verse where Batman learned how to be Batman thanks to Ra's Al Ghul and isnt the greatest detective.
I figured sure Ra's has a son because this is the movie version of someone elses interpretation
SCULLIBUNDO
Banned
ryutaro's mama
Member
Riposte
Member
I will say this... I was really stupid and forgot Talia was Ra's(Ra's'?) daughter and I'm the biggest Ra's fan there is. Like I was thinking she's Talia... but not making the connecting. So yeah... he managed to fool me into thinking the kid was Bane and Bane was the son. I give him credit for that.
That said, I'm not actually calling him the world's greatest detective. He just looks really dumb and I set myself up for failure expecting him to be Batman-as-fuck. I'm pretty sure if they pulled it off it would be the moment everyone would be talking about.
Razgriz-Specter
Member
Wish we got a shot of Talia like
Batman doesn't get to read his own comics.
Bruce was emotionally down after losing Alfred and after being in a recluse for several years
Ephemeris
Member
I haven't done a second viewing in a theater since like.. 2003.
Considering seeing this one again in imax
welcome to my day. Don't do it to yourself.
Considering seeing this one again in imax
welcome to my day. Don't do it to yourself.
Pictured Joker killing either Talia or Bane at the end, actually. Either Joker fills Selina's role as the one who saves Bats from Bane, or Talia escapes at the end, only to end up in the Joker's grasp.
SCULLIBUNDO
Banned
C'mon, there were no front shots of Nolan?
Sculli mailing it in.
Trying to stay in keeping with the movie.
Rich Uncle Skeleton
Member
I mean, what are we to believe, that this is some sort of a magic xylophone or something?
FlashbladeGAF
Member
Plus he had just gotten some. He wasnt really listening. He was trying to find a way to tell her to leave without being rude.
Ninja Scooter
Member
he busted his first nut in 8 years.
Riposte
Member
I haven't done a second viewing in a theater since like.. 2003.
Considering seeing this one again in imax
welcome to my day. Don't do it to yourself.
Pictured Joker killing either Talia or Bane at the end, actually. Either Joker fills Selina's role as the one who saves Bats from Bane, or Talia escapes at the end, only to end up in the Joker's grasp.
I'm thinking something along the lines of him being like "haha, you guys have no idea what you are dealing with. You are all screwed." I'd look for the panel, but I imagine posting scans is bannable.
Wayne was more out of shape than being "broken". He clearly underestimated Bane even after Alfred pointed it out to him. Even Alfred knew his encounter with Bane could be his last. It took Bruce almost 6 months to recover and get into fighting shape to fight against Bane. And he didn't become a perfect fighting specimen, he was fighting on more equal grounds with Bane and the difference in the fight ended up being the knowledge he gained about Bane from the prison regarding his condition. Batman probably would've died against Bane if Catwoman hadn't saved her since he was stabbed quite deeply by Talia beforehand.
Batman used most of the tricks in his book. Stealth, technology, smoke bombs etc. Ninjutsu clearly wasn't going to work on Bane as he is well aware of all the tricks that LoS is capable of. Bane is far more comfortable in the darkness than Batman could ever hope to be. He tried to fight him one on one and it didn't work, he got bested. He underestimated Bane. I don't know what fights you are referring to in the first movie but this fight trumps any fight in the trilogy. It was meant to be a one sided beatdown and it accomplished what it set out to do.. to break the Batman spiritually and physically.
That little girl wasn't weighed down by multiple meters of rope either and the difference was that she was afraid of her life which allowed her to put more effort into the jump rather than being mentally weighed down by the rope. When Bruce realized that the role was a physical and mental handicap then he was able to overcome it just like the girl did.
So basically it's just like every Batman movie/game/comic ever made.
The first is a legit complaint although people definitely died from that face off and some of the cops did have firearms. The explosive was in a tunnel and Blake was out of it, don't think it was going to hurt him anyway. Gordon wasn't in the front seat where the maximum impact of the crash was. I didn't see Batmobile fire hitting the Batcopter at any time in the movie.
Most of those "weapons" are prototypes anyway and they were well secured from generally any place except from the bottom and who could've really thought someone would try to jack equipment by tunneling from the sewers. Bruce basically gave him instructions to the cave, it was on that piece of paper he was holding. He wanted him to carry on the legacy.
This goes back to the comment where Bruce made that he would follow Alfred if he ever took a day off. Alfred told him about this cafe and how he often visits it HOPING Bruce would show up. It's not unlikely Bruce had Alfred followed and arranged for that meeting to happen, he wanted to show Alfred that he has moved on and his dream is now a reality.
Oh and BatGAF add me to the 2nd viewing crowd. Liked the movie even more the 2nd time around, loved the ending even more.
MooseKnuckles
Banned
There was the whole conversation in the pit-prison about the desire to live being stronger than the fear of death (or something like that) and Alfred's desire for Bruce to realise that his life is worth living that established Bruce's willingness to die at the beginning of the film.
Bruce finally realising that his life is worth living (and allowing himself to move on from Batman) is one of the most significant emotional revelations he has undergone through the whole trilogy. It's Bruce finally no longer 'needing' Batman in the way Rachel thought he always would. His surviving represents a massive character moment, and has a lot more meaning than just making sure the audience "isn't sad".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1T__uN5xmC0&feature=player_embedded
Pretty cool Dark Knight Trilogy fan made trailer.
Pretty cool Dark Knight Trilogy fan made trailer.
Also Gordon is holding his arm when he comes out of the back of the truck. Between him holding onto the bar in the back with his arm and being wedged in between the container and the nuke, it's plausible that he could live. Talia's head bounces off the steering wheel a couple of times in the crash, which would easily kill her.
ryutaro's mama
Member
Get out.
TrumanBurbank
Member
Just realized there were 5 actors from Inception in this. Crazy.
Exactly. It was expertly done. Everything ends up on the best possible note.
Ephemeris
Member
that works too!
cj_iwakura
Member
I saw it for the first time today with two friends. They were underwhelmed, I loved it.
Maybe I'm just immune to by-the-books storytelling, but it kept me engrossed, loved Kyle and Bane, and especially the final shots.
Crane running the tribunal was PERFECT.
Maybe I'm just immune to by-the-books storytelling, but it kept me engrossed, loved Kyle and Bane, and especially the final shots.
Crane running the tribunal was PERFECT.
Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew
Banned
All movies had plot issues. This one just manages to tackle a lot of scenarios at once so it will have issues. Focusing heavy on fighting or other issues and calling it errors is questionable knowing that TDK could've ended right when Batman faced Joker at the party, kicked his ass and locked him up.
How did Joker get the guy with bomb in stomach in jail as the same time as him? How did he get the bomb in there in the first place! You can't pack that much explosive in stomach!
How did Joker avoid dying in the explosion?
Why isn't Harvey Dent dead from the heavy third degree burn, and why isn't he in constant pain?
How come no one saw that Jim Gordon isn't dead? Did they just throw his "body" in the river and he walked away?
How were the ballistics/shrapnels used to find fingerprints?
How did Tumbler become batpod? Couldn't the tumblers in TDKR become batpods?
How does the whole autopilot in Tumbler work? Where did he crash from?!
Batman jumping on a moving van?! IMPOSSIBLE! That is risking injury and getting run over by the van! Jumping on the windshield/roof shouldn't bring the van to complete stop!
How did Bruce know that the wall in China will explode right when he captures Lau? Infact, how did he even know Lau was there to begin with in that floor? Where was the plane waiting?! How did it get there so quickly?!
Sonar? Fuck that!
Gotham-wide Sonar? FUCK THAT!
Pencil-trick killing the guy? C'mon!
How long was that boat in the ocean?! I mean trip to China must be long, wouldn't it? Couldn't then Russian cuties said anything about Wayne going away?
I can go on and on!
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