REMEMBER the dArk knight rises UnmaRked spOileR threAd | You only legend once

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Right, intuition. Even ignoring that, it was mind-bogglingly stupid for Bruce to immediately trust this stranger with the knowledge that he's Batman during their first meeting. This was a time when he was still hunted as Batman for killing Dent. And here he didn't even deny to a cop that he could be Batman.

2 minutes of talking to Harvey Dent had him ready to give up being Batman. It fits with his character. He didn't want to have to be Gotham's lone savior. That wasn't his intention when he started this in Begins. He wanted to inspire people so it makes sense for him to be looking for people that can carry on his legacy.



Okay then, I thought that might be the case. However Blake was talking to his partner constantly, he didn't think to rig some explosives to get them all out? It seemed like a way too convenient plotline, that wasn't thought through well at all.

He was doing this by sending little notes through a gutter. All the while careful not to be seen by Bane's guys. It's not like he could have sent a bunch of arms and bombs down there to them.
 
That entire plotline made no sense to me. So they were able to send food down to them, lowered on a crane with massive crates, yet they couldnt send any of them up with that crane? Why couldn't they send down explosives to help them blow their way out? Were they down there for what, 3 months? And they did nothing to try and escape? Also when the finally all got free, they looked perfectly healthy in clean clothes etc. I feel like I've missed something, because this seemed like an egregious oversight and incredibly poor writing.
I was under the impression that the police were tightly monitored by Bane's goons hence that scene at the end where Blake tries to get them out but fails. The Bane goons probably allowed the food to be transferred but didn't allowed any cops to go up.

But to be honest 3 months+ being trapped down like that is simply illogical because what about all their excrement, their clothing, their family etc. There were no eyes with the cops to show their misery, no character we could've followed to know how bad they had it or what kind of living condition they were under. Most of the policemen came out like they had barely been under there for a few days at most. They really needed more scenes to flesh out the trapped cops perspective in the movie but then again... a lot of perspectives were not fleshed out including the citizens of Gotham.

The time scale in general was really out of focus for the entire movie. They basically needed a plot where they could keep Gotham hostage for enough time for Bruce to recover and make his come back. Only way that was going to happen if the plot went through some loops.
 
All movies had plot issues. This one just manages to tackle a lot of scenarios at once so it will have issues. Focusing heavy on fighting or other issues and calling it errors is questionable knowing that TDK could've ended right when Batman faced Joker at the party, kicked his ass and locked him up.

A movie only need adhere to its own internal logic. TDKR has a lot of issues that break that, many of which have been called out ad nausem.

How did Joker get the guy with bomb in stomach in jail as the same time as him? How did he get the bomb in there in the first place! You can't pack that much explosive in stomach!

I always thought that that goon was drugged and knockout before that process and it was placed in his fat layer, not his actual belly.

How did Joker avoid dying in the explosion?

He walked out of the police station prior to the explosion. I don't remember it being clear when he actually placed the phone call to detonate the bomb.

Why isn't Harvey Dent dead from the heavy third degree burn, and why isn't he in constant pain?

Dead? That's a stretch. In pain, he looked pretty morphined up in the hospital. And his face was scabbing over under the bandages.

How come no one saw that Jim Gordon isn't dead? Did they just throw his "body" in the river and he walked away?

Wat

How were the ballistics/shrapnels used to find fingerprints?

The fiction of that is shown pretty clear.

How did Tumbler become batpod?

It was designed that way or modified in post by Bruce.

Couldn't the tumblers in TDKR become batpods?

Seeing as how each of those Tumblers were varying prototypes from around the world, maybe? But they were never used so it's irrelevant.

How does the whole autopilot in Tumbler work? Where did he crash from?!

Google has an autopilot car right now. Not science fiction.

Batman jumping on a moving van?! IMPOSSIBLE! That is risking injury and getting run over by the van! Jumping on the windshield shouldn't bring the van to complete stop!

I have no idea how re-enforced the Bat suit is and neither do you.

How did Bruce know that the wall in China will explode right when he captures Lau?

The explosives had a very visible fucking timer on them!

Infact, how did he even know Lau was there to begin with in that floor?

Sonar. You answer your own question below. Movie adhered to it's own internal logic.

Where was the plane waiting?! How did it get there so quickly?!

Bruce was well aware of what time he had to get Lau out and it was more than obvious to this viewer that the plane was in route the entire time. It even takes a few seconds after the wall falls away where he is in a standoff with Lau's men.

Sonar? Fuck that!

Gotham-wide Sonar? FUCK THAT!

Adheres to the internal logic of the film. Doesn't cheat.

Pencil-trick killing the guy? C'mon!

Through the eye, sure.

How long was that boat in the ocean?! I mean trip to China must be long, wouldn't it? Couldn't then Russian cuties said anything about Wayne going away?

Who knows what they arrangements were, remember they were gone for a week, on his dime. Wayne could have explained away that he needed to return to Gotham for billionaire dealings and shit.

I can go on and on!

Please do try.
 
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I like how Bane just punches the wall a second time even though Bats is 5ft away.
 
He was awesome in some scenes but in the end, his lasting impressions was just simply a man bigger and stronger than Batman. Nothing more than that. No motives for his terrorism. Just ''I need Batman out of the way so I can keep breaking things''.

None of their motivations made any sense. Joker was so much better than Bane and Insert-Twist

"I'm totally avenging my dad and Bane is my lover who is 20 years older than me and helped me escape when I was 6 years old, so I'm going to quarantine Gotham and sit here doing nothing for five months so Batman can watch it on TV, also I'm going to lie about giving the detonator to a random person for some reason that doesn't make any sense. Oh shoot Batman's here use the detonator!"

Completely nonsensical.

 
None of their motivations made any sense. Joker was so much better than Bane and Insert-Twist

"I'm totally avenging my dad and Bane is my lover who is 20 years older than me and helped me escape when I was 6 years old, so I'm going to quarantine Gotham and sit here doing nothing for five months so Batman can watch it on TV, also I'm going to like about giving the detonator to a random person for some reason that doesn't make any sense. Oh shoot Batman's here use the detonator!"

Completely nonsensical.

Your #4 explained is ridiculous still.

90% of your list is.
 
As I said, I didn't remember.

Even if that is true, I refuted everything else.

the same way you can refute the issues in TDKR. I mean, c'mon, pulling a fingerprint from a bullet hole? The bus escape during the heist? The boat scene? Why wouldn't Joker just have his own trigger so he could blow up both boats in case something went wrong? Sonar from people's cell phones? Both movies were firmly grounded in the same universe in terms of logic and plotholes.
 
He walked out of the police station prior to the explosion. I don't remember it being clear when he actually placed the phone call to detonate the bomb.
No he did not, he was in the police station with all those desks. There were a few people with him in that room, all of whom were knocked out but Joker was unphased. Definitely a case of plot armor right there.

Another case of plot armor in TDK was the Batman + Rachel fall. There is no way they should've survived that fall and them coming out of it unharmed was even more hysterical. I am pretty sure Nolan meant for Batman to slow the descent by using his cape but the scene wasn't directed properly to portray this and his cape was just flaccid throughout the scene.

As far as Joker goes in TDK.. he was probably the biggest contradiction in that movie. His entire persona is that he is a man without a plan, he just does stuff and is just an agent of chaos. He loves to turn people's plans on their heads because he isn't a schemer. Except scheming is exactly what he was doing the entire movie... he had plans and then he had back up plans as well. He was the biggest schemer in TDK by a mile and most of his schemes were really fanciful as most of them involved getting multiple barrels of gas and explosives past security in tight areas that never should be there.
 
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He was doing this by sending little notes through a gutter. All the while careful not to be seen by Bane's guys. It's not like he could have sent a bunch of arms and bombs down there to them.

Okay, I'll accept that. They were still however down there for months, that part of the whole situation is unbelievable.
 
No he did not, he was in the police station with all those desks. There were a few people with him in that room, all of whom were knocked out but Joker was unphased. Definitely a case of plot armor right there.

Another case of plot armor in TDK was the Batman + Rachel fall. There is no way they should've survived that fall and them coming out of it unharmed was even more hysterical. I am pretty sure Nolan meant for Batman to slow the descent by using his cape but the scene wasn't directed properly to portray this and his cape was just flaccid throughout the scene.

The cape was deployed and there were corresponding sound effects too. That's why the drop was a slow thud, not a bang
 
Also regarding Bane, the scene where he actually showed emotion was so fucking brilliant
I understood it not just being emotion but also agonizing pain.

I liked the idea that the mask wasn't used to make him stronger, but to keep his suffering at bay.

It kind of mirrors the reason Bruce uses his mask.
 
Okay, I'll accept that. They were still however down there for months, that part of the whole situation is unbelievable.

Lots of things about the Batman movies are unbelievable. A bunch of cops being trapped underground for 5 months and being kept alive with food drop-offs is the tip of the iceberg if you really want to get picky, that's all I'm saying. I'm just genuinely surprised at the things people are deciding to get picky about. Begins and TDK had the same kind of things going on. Same type of villain motivations and schemes.
 
I understood it not just being emotion but also agonizing pain.

I liked the idea that the mask wasn't used to make him stronger, but to keep his suffering at bay.

It kind of mirrors the reason Bruce uses his mask.

Did he see a doctor after leaving the dungeon? Seems like he could have gotten that checked out instead of having to wear a mask that vaguely stops the pain.
 
Given what happens... he should have just died right then and there.

I kind of laughed at how easily Talia just popped his tubes right back in. It was like undoing all of the work Batman just did that we thought was a lot of work to pull off. Only for her to reverse it. I think it would have been better if she hadn't popped them in. If Hardy had done that whole scene expressing pain, it would've been great.
 
None of their motivations made any sense. Joker was so much better than Bane and Insert-Twist

"I'm totally avenging my dad and Bane is my lover who is 20 years older than me and helped me escape when I was 6 years old,

Bane was the only hero she knew. Not hard to believe she would have strong feelings for him
so I'm going to quarantine Gotham and sit here doing nothing for five months so Batman can watch it on TV,

They were giving Gotham and the rest of the world hope that things might work out in the end, but Bruce knew this was a false hope and could do nothing (in his broken condition) to stop them. He would watch as things would escalate and be powerless to stop it


also I'm going to like about giving the detonator to a random person for some reason that doesn't make any sense.

she had the detonator the whole time. It was technically a lie
Bane said a citizen had it. Tali had been living in Gotham for awhile so she was that citizen


Oh shoot Batman's here use the detonator!"
They underestimated Batman like Batman underestimated Bane.

They thought they broke the Bat, and she thought Bane could do it again, but they were WRONG!
 
The cape was deployed and there were corresponding sound effects too. That's why the drop was a slow thud, not a bang
I have seen that scene multiple times and I know what it was SUPPOSED to show but that's not what it showed. The cape deployment was very flaccid and there really was no momentum shift in mid air... only like 1 foot before they were about to be crushed. It was a poorly directed sequence.

Microwave emitter used to disperse weaponized hallocinogens.
 
No doubt, absolutely.

My point is, I didn't keep "waking up" during TDK like I did for TDKR.

The plot holes in this one just felt janky.

Honestly, Dark Knight had a lot of silly shit if you really think about it.

The thing is, I didn't really think about it. The same applies for TDKR. I don't take comic book movies that seriously, no matter how Nolan decides to portray the world in his films. The entire trilogy is fantastic, but it has its fair amount of cheese and plot holes.
 
Ninja, the sonar isn't a plot hole. It's part of the film's internal logic and a big part of the overall story.

Climbing out of the Pit in India and magically making it back inside an isolated Gotham is a plot hole.

Blake magically figuring out Bruce's secret identity is a plot flaw.

Those are just blatant.
 
I have seen that scene multiple times and I know what it was SUPPOSED to show but that's not what it showed. The cape deployment was very flaccid and there really was no momentum shift in mid air... only like 1 foot before they were about to be crushed. It was a poorly directed sequence.

The execution was lacking, for sure.
 
Ninja, the sonar isn't a plot hole. It's part of the film's internal logic and a big part of the overall story.

Climbing out of the Pit in India and magically making it back inside an isolated Gotham is a plot hole.

Blake magically figuring out Bruce's secret identity is a plot flaw.

Those are just blatant.

Escaping the explosion at the League of Shadows hideout and magically finding his way to an airstrip to be greeted by Alfred and a private jet isn't the same kind of logic?

The identity thing is actually not a plot hole at all. You can argue that it's dumb and hokey, hell I probably agree with that, but it's not a plot hole. They were building up Blake's character as having great natural instincts.
 
Ninja, the sonar isn't a plot hole. It's part of the film's internal logic and a big part of the overall story.

Climbing out of the Pit in India and magically making it back inside an isolated Gotham is a plot hole.

Blake magically figuring out Bruce's secret identity is a plot flaw.

Those are just blatant.

A six-year-old being able to jump further than Batman is a plot hole

she had the detonator the whole time. It was technically a lie. Bane said a citizen had it. Tali had been living in Gotham for awhile so she was that citizen

Right, but what was the point of the lie? What dramatic effect was he going for? It doesn't make any sense.
 
Ninja, the sonar isn't a plot hole. It's part of the film's internal logic and a big part of the overall story.

Climbing out of the Pit in India and magically making it back inside an isolated Gotham is a plot hole.

Blake magically figuring out Bruce's secret identity is a plot flaw.

Those are just blatant.

Actually him figuring it out makes sense....it's the other people of Gotham that haven't figured it out yet that's the problem :P
 

Microwave emitters that only vaporize the water beneath the mains (even though human bodies are comprised of water as well)... and the waters were filled with a psychotropic toxin that would make people crazy so that society would tear apart itself.

Bruce promising he won't become an executioner, then burning down a ninja terrorist hideout, clearly killing people.

Ninja terroists.

...A little ridiculous no?
 
Actually him figuring it out makes sense....it's the other people of Gotham that haven't figured it out yet that's the problem :P
I was just about to say this.

How did no one figure out in Batman begins that as soon as Bruce makes his 3 year return... the Batman also pops up.

A six-year-old being able to jump further than Batman is a plot hole
A Batman who is pushing 40+, just had his back severely injured and was weighed down physically by numerous meters of ropes plus was much more careless about his jumps. When he got back in shape, didn't use the rope and was more focused because his life was on the line... then he made the jump.
 
Escaping the explosion at the League of Shadows hideout and magically finding his way to an airstrip to be greeted by Alfred and a private jet isn't the same kind of logic?

I agree.

Don't get me wrong, man.

I didn't hate TDKR; quite the opposite. This one just didn't feel as well put together as the other two.

That's just my opinion.
 
I didn't realize it, but when Alfred inherited the Wayne estate, everything but the pearl necklace was there. Alfred used the tracking on the pearl necklace to meet up with Bruce in the end-scene.
 
I have seen that scene multiple times and I know what it was SUPPOSED to show but that's not what it showed. The cape deployment was very flaccid and there really was no momentum shift in mid air... only like 1 foot before they were about to be crushed. It was a poorly directed sequence.


Microwave emitter used to disperse weaponized hallocinogens.

I know what you are saying, and I am saying that this is exactly what it showed though. They were dropping straight down, the cape couldn't look like anything else. And again, the sound effects are there. Just my take on it. I thought it was done decent enough
 
I didn't realize it, but when Alfred inherited the Wayne estate, everything but the pearl necklace was there. Alfred used the tracking on the pearl necklace to meet up with Bruce in the end-scene.
Is Selena wearing it at the end?

I know they make a point to say it is missing during the final sequence, but I wasn't sure why.
 
I agree.

Don't get me wrong, man.

I didn't hate TDKR; quite the opposite. This one just didn't feel as well put together as the other two.

That's just my opinion.

I dont' necessarily disagree. TDK is a lot more focused, hits on beat after beat. TDKR tries to be more ambitious, probably because they have to have a lot more closure, and include way more characters than before, so it's going to be more flawed in that aspect.
 
Right, but what was the point of the lie? What dramatic effect was he going for? It doesn't make any sense.

I agree with this one. Never bought for one second that some normal person had the detonator. Neither did any of the characters. So I'm not sure what narrative point that really served.
 
I watched TDK again tonight for the first time since 2008 at the movies. I forgot how epic this movie was.

Thoughts:

- Man Maggie was a huge step down from Katie. She isn't ugly but Katie is so much hotter
- The Batman voice was not as bad as I remember it in theaters so there's hope for the folks who couldn't understand Bane
- There was no mention of the voice changer in the suit. Where the hell did I get that from? Comics?
- Ledger was amazing
- So many great quotes in this movie

I still think TDKR was better cos I'm a JGL fanboy but it's much closer than I thought yesterday lol
 
I didn't realize it, but when Alfred inherited the Wayne estate, everything but the pearl necklace was there. Alfred used the tracking on the pearl necklace to meet up with Bruce in the end-scene.

Hey, that's possible. Also helps Bruce to keeps his girlfriend in check. Oh that sly fox.
 
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