REMEMBER the dArk knight rises UnmaRked spOileR threAd | You only legend once

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Ah I see, makes sense now.

I'm still kinda annoyed that they should've at least changed Blake's name to Drake or at least some nice tattle-tale.
 
Does anyone think that the reveal that the kid from the dungeon is Talia completely invalidates Bane as a character?

His motivations, background story, etc. is completely destroyed by that twist. At that moment, you now have no idea who Bane is or why he's doing what he's doing other than being the real villain's boyfriend.

He wasn't really born in darkness or anything like that, he was just a prisoner that helped Talia when her mom was killed. His background is really vague. Even the thing with his mouth injury is vague. He was "excommunicated" from the league for loving Talia, not because he was too dangerous or whatever you'd believed up to that point.

The face shot of Tom Hardy in the dungeon cements Bane as just being a random, normal guy. He wasn't particularly oppressed by society or anything like that. It's just really awkward and there's a huge disconnect with everything he does in the movie.
 
Protome said:
The one thing I hate about the trilogy.
Is that at no point does anyone actually pronounce Ra's Al Ghul's name correctly.
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I don't care if it is spelled Ra's and pronounced Ray-sh.

I will ALWAYS spell it Rhas and pronounce it Raz.

I'M RAZ AL GHOUL, THE LEADER OF THE LEAGUE OF SHADOWS. DEAL WITH IT.
 
Korey said:
Does anyone think that the reveal that the kid from the dungeon is Talia completely invalidates Bane as a character?

His motivations, background story, etc. is completely destroyed by that twist. At that moment, you have no idea who Bane is or why he's doing what he's doing other than being the real villain's boyfriend.

He wasn't really born in darkness or anything like that, he was just a prisoner that helped Talia when her mom was killed. His background is really vague. Even the thing with his mouth injury is vague. He was "excommunicated" from the league for loving Talia, not because he was too dangerous or whatever you'd believed up to that point.
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Bane was born in the darkness. Reason he protects Talia is because he sees himself on her, thus why he wants her to leave the pit.
 
Korey said:
Does anyone think that the reveal that the kid from the dungeon is Talia completely invalidates Bane as a character?
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Considering you just explained his character....no, it obviously does not.

It doesn't even invalidate the born in darkness part. I'm sure lots of prisoners were born in darkness. Talia is the only one that escaped. Like Bruce, she let down the rope and brought her protector with her. Also, it wasn't confirmed to be romantic love, which would be kind of creepy.
 
Solo said:
I don't care if it is spelled Ra's and pronounced Ray-sh.

I will ALWAYS spell it Rhas and pronounce it Raz.

I'M RAZ AL GHOUL, THE LEADER OF THE LEAGUE OF SHADOWS. DEAL WITH IT.
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was it this way in the animated series? because that's where i thought i got it from.
 
Veelk said:
Considering you just explained his character....no, it obviously does not.

It doesn't even invalidate the born in darkness part. I'm sure lots of prisoners were born in darkness. Talia is the only one that escaped. Like Bruce, she let down the rope and brought her protector with her. Also, it wasn't confirmed to be romantic love, which would be kind of creepy.
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Pretty sure it was romantic love.
 
Went last night and enjoyed it immensely

Loved Bane
Loved the ending
The Pit could have been used as more of a catalyst (I read some of the posts regarding a couple of push-ups and Viola he is ready)... Would have loved it if someone dropped a little knowledge and called it the Lazarus Pit, you're reborn and all

Loved the music, the Airplane sequence at the start was amazing
Some gasped at Talia' reveal, but due to my comic book knowledge and video game knowledge, that was no f'n surprise, Ra's son... LOL

I went and saw Amazing Spider-Man after that, was a good 1-2 Super Hero combo, had a good Saturday Night
 
Korey said:
Does anyone think that the reveal that the kid from the dungeon is Talia completely invalidates Bane as a character?

His motivations, background story, etc. is completely destroyed by that twist. At that moment, you have no idea who Bane is or why he's doing what he's doing other than being the real villain's boyfriend.

He wasn't really born in darkness or anything like that, he was just a prisoner that helped Talia when her mom was killed. His background is really vague. Even the thing with his mouth injury is vague. He was "excommunicated" from the league for loving Talia, not because he was too dangerous or whatever you'd believed up to that point.
Click to expand...

What I found a little shocking was that when Talia saves Bane, we see him getting all mushy around her, so while it seems he is some sort of revolutionary, his goal it seems was really just to aid her in her cause.

It wasn't Banes cause but he was damn effective it moving things forward.

Theres also that wierd moment before he picks up the rope, he looks at Batman. I thought is he going to change his mind and help Batman out? I have to see it again but I could have sworn those odd 2 seconds were there.
 
Speaking of games.....what they should do now is get Rocksteady to make an absolutely amazing game covering the ENTIRE trilogy. Yes, it will come out a few years after it ends. But hey, so did the Goldeneye game, and that rocked.
 
Veelk said:
Only because you wan to be sure. It's ambiguous. I prefer the big brother kind of love interpretation
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He was kicked out of the League of Assassins for having brotherly love towards her?

Would have made no sense, especially since Raz specifically saved him from the prison for helping her.
 
Veelk said:
I think the movie would have been legitimately different if Heath Ledger was still alive. I don't necessarily think they planned out the 3rd movie while writing the 2nd, but Joker or his influence would have been felt more if he had been alive. I mean, where was he, exactly, when the prison break happened? I guess he was sent to a different, federal prison or something, deemed too dangerous to gotham. It's not unreasonable, but the real reason he wasn't there was because of real life reasons.

I wonder how he and Bane would have interacted
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In Arkham Asylum. It was Blackgate Prison that got liberated.
 
Yeah, it was Blackgate, not Arkham. Speaking of which, we never heard if the Narrows (where Arkham is in the Nolanverse) ever recovered in the 9 years post BB :_(
 
They were in love? I'm pretty sure it was more of a sibling/guardian kinship. R'as kicked him out apparently because he was "already a monster".
 
what bane did with announcing that a citizen has the trigger and letting the city eat itself alive for 5 months was a very joker thing to do. I can't see him replacing bane in that scene but I got that vibe from that scene in the stadium
 
wetwired said:
what bane did with announcing that a citizen has the trigger and letting the city eat itself alive for 5 months was a very joker thing to do. I can't see him replacing bane in that scene but I got that vibe from that scene in the stadium
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It wasn't a Joker thing to do though. The Joker actually WOULD HAVE DONE IT (given the trigger to some random). For Talia/Bane, it was about giving the citizens of Gotham false hope before crushing their city/souls.

I love that these characters were so well rounded that I can feel comfortable in predicting what their actions would have been in different scenarios.
 
wetwired said:
what bane did with announcing that a citizen has the trigger and letting the city eat itself alive for 5 months was a very joker thing to do. I can't see him replacing bane in that scene but I got that vibe from that scene in the stadium
Click to expand...

If anything, Joker actually does give someone the trigger unwittingly. Bane's line comes off more as a bluff.
 
Korey said:
He was kicked out of the League of Assassins for having brotherly love toward her?
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...yes? Her father despised Bane because he saw him as a symbol of his failure. He failed to protect his wife and child where he did, and his daughter loved Bane more than she did him for it.

Do you really think that he would have gone "Oh, well, you saved my daughter, thank you very much and OH MY GOD, YOUR HAVING CONSENSUAL SEX WITH HER?! GET OUT OF MY ORGANIZATION!"

It'd be extremely petty of him to throw him out over that. If she was too young, I also doubt that she would be so adamant against him either. It also said it took her years to track him down, so it's reasonable to assume that she was an adult by that time.


Korey said:
Would have made no sense, especially since Raz specifically saved him from the prison for helping her.
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I'm pretty sure Talia was the one who got him out. Or maybe they never said, but I don't recall Ra's ever doing Bane any favors.
 
Veelk said:
...yes? Her father despised Bane because he saw him as a symbol of his failure. He failed to protect his wife and child where he did, and his daughter loved Bane more than she did him for it.

Do you really think that he would have gone "Oh, well, you saved my daughter, thank you very much and OH MY GOD, YOUR HAVING CONSENSUAL SEX WITH HER?! GET OUT OF MY ORGANIZATION!"

It'd be extremely petty of him to throw him out over that. If she was too young, I also doubt that she would be so adamant against him either. It also said it took her years to track him down, so it's reasonable to assume that she was an adult by that time.
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I'm pretty sure you're literally the only person that has this interpretation of this, but you may be right. *shrug*
 
I wonder how Heath Ledgers passing affected the story, I am tempted to say that Nolan had a lot more planned for the ongoing battles between the Joker and The Batman, Dent/ Two Face seemed to be getting primed to be the main bad guy at the end of the last one. Has anyone ever spoke out about this?

I do think im happy with the way things turned out, it would have been disrespectful to Heath Ledger to make a throw away comment about the Joker, or try and get someone to emulate him, but I do feel as though he would have had more presence in Gotham after Bane took it over. I wonder if there would have been more tension between the criminals, I think its weird that all the criminals swore allegiance to Bane, would have been more interesting if Gotham got really torn up. That said for the length of the movie I doubt they could have got into that.

Banes Gotham was still slightly disappointing to me after playing Arkham City, I think they could have done more to show just how bad the criminal uprising was.
 
bobs99 ... said:
I wonder how Heath Ledgers passing affected the story, I am tempted to say that Nolan had a lot more planned for the ongoing battles between the Joker and The Batman, Dent/ Two Face seemed to be getting primed to be the main bad guy at the end of the last one. Has anyone ever spoke out about this?
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wat

He died in the last one.
 
Korey said:
Does anyone think that the reveal that the kid from the dungeon is Talia completely invalidates Bane as a character?

His motivations, background story, etc. is completely destroyed by that twist. At that moment, you now have no idea who Bane is or why he's doing what he's doing other than being the real villain's boyfriend.

He wasn't really born in darkness or anything like that, he was just a prisoner that helped Talia when her mom was killed. His background is really vague. Even the thing with his mouth injury is vague. He was "excommunicated" from the league for loving Talia, not because he was too dangerous or whatever you'd believed up to that point.

The face shot of Tom Hardy in the dungeon cements Bane as just being a random, normal guy. He wasn't particularly oppressed by society or anything like that. It's just really awkward and there's a huge disconnect with everything he does in the movie.
Click to expand...

I immediately started thinking about how Bruce smashed up Talia, Bane's girlfriend. Then wondered if Bane knew.

But yeah, it left me with a lot of questions about Bane. I wanted to believe some of his backstory were true. Talia's performance had to be better to carry that kind of weight, and discard Bane as the true villain of the movie. I like to think of him as an independent force with his own ideals and motivations, still strong, which ignoring Talia's next request supported. (Killing Batman) Talia only has her monologue to build her character and then becomes a truck right after. I think they play her good role too straight, probably to avoid telegraphing the twist, but they miss out on any resulting complexity she could have had. Her death scene was bad too. I would have preferred if she was just laid out after the crash, like Reese post-bomb in Terminator. Then Batman figures out the information she reveals on his own, calculating his exit before anyone else could comprehend what he had to do.
 
Korey said:
I'm pretty sure you're literally the only person that has this interpretation of this, but you may be right. *shrug*
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I take it because it works better as a foil, as the best Batman villains typically are.

A non familial guardian figure protecting and raising a child who has lost his/her parents, and then supports him/her on an insane scheme in order to fulfill the dead parents legacy out of pure love for them.

Am I describing Talia and Bane or Bruce and Alfred? Having it become a romance works less because there is nothing sexual between Bruce and Alfred.

No slash fanfic writers, there isn't
 
bobs99 ... said:
I wonder how Heath Ledgers passing affected the story, I am tempted to say that Nolan had a lot more planned for the ongoing battles between the Joker and The Batman, Dent/ Two Face seemed to be getting primed to be the main bad guy at the end of the last one. Has anyone ever spoke out about this?

I do think im happy with the way things turned out, it would have been disrespectful to Heath Ledger to make a throw away comment about the Joker, or try and get someone to emulate him, but I do feel as though he would have had more presence in Gotham after Bane took it over. I wonder if there would have been more tension between the criminals, I think its weird that all the criminals swore allegiance to Bane, would have been more interesting if Gotham got really torn up. That said for the length of the movie I doubt they could have got into that.

Banes Gotham was still slightly disappointing to me after playing Arkham City, I think they could have done more to show just how bad the criminal uprising was.
Click to expand...

To me it's more disrespectful to completely ignore heaths contribution as the joker as if it never happened.
 
If you make yourself more than just a casualty, then you become something else entirely.

Which is?

Harvey Dent in TDK, Mr. Wayne.
 
Solo said:
wat

He died in the last one.
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That was pretty ambiguous though, he fell a relatively short distance, to me it seemed more like they 'faked' his death just to allow Harvey Dent to be the hero Gotham needed, whilst Two Face was essentially now just going to be a villain and Dents story was done, it would have been pretty weird if thats how things played out, and im probably wrong, but it also seemed weird that he would die so quickly and easily.


wetwired said:
To me it's more disrespectful to completely ignore heaths contribution as the joker as if it never happened.
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Agreed, but I feel as though a paragraph in the credits for Heath Ledger would have served better than a throwaway comment about the Joker, he sadly didnt have very much of a part to play in this film at all, and all they could have really done was allude to the chaos he was causing in Banes Gotham, that would have been pretty weak.
 
bobs99 ... said:
That was pretty ambiguous though
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Nothing ambiguous about it. He fell like 70 feet, broke his neck and died. He was dead when Bruce turned his head to the other side. Then in the closing montage Gordon was talking at his funeral. Then AGAIN at the start of TDKR, Gordon is memorializing Dent.

Inception's ending is ambiguous. TDK's is not.
 
bobs99 ... said:
That was pretty ambiguous though, he fell a relatively short distance, to me it seemed more like they 'faked' his death just to allow Harvey Dent to be the hero Gotham needed, whilst Two Face was essentially now just going to be a villain, it would have been pretty weird if thats how things played out, and im probably wrong, but it also seemed weird that he would die so quickly and easily.
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Ok, now you're reaching. He looked pretty damn dead to me, and they discussed his death, and had a funeral.

Solo said:
Inception's ending is ambiguous. TDK's is not.
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Did anybody else notice the spinning top on Alfred's table at the end there?
 
Hell, Inception's ending is pretty straightforward too. I guess if people think too hard about it, I guess.

Anyway yeah in TDK Harvey's death is pretty clear. The fact that Batman even moved his dead body affirms it, and he wasn't breathing at all.
 
Ookami-kun said:
.

Anyway yeah in TDK Harvey's death is pretty clear. The fact that Batman even moved his dead body affirms it, and he wasn't breathing at all.
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Not to mention that Bruce and Gordon INSTANTLY start referring to Harvey/Two Face in the past tense :lol

DEAD AS A DOORKNOB
 
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