REMEMBER the dArk knight rises UnmaRked spOileR threAd | You only legend once

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Some food for thought. Batman also didn't win his final fist fight with Ra's. But he had to outsmart him.

I have no idea what happened in that fight anymore. Quick recap?

I expect more from Batman than thuggery. Plus, in a movie that was lacking in the social commentary (especially compared to DK), a violence vs. non-violence theme could have been a powerful statement.

He tried it in the first fight and it didn't do shit. (he also got thrown into the situation)

I like that in the second fight they just went all out. And hitting the mask is a tactic I think.

He didn't get "thrown into" the first fight. He was tracking Bane in the sewers. There was no hint that he had a plan other than punching him.
 
Ugh, again, Im not saying its unrealistic, Im saying its not consistent with itself.

Im not saying anything that happen couldnt or shouldnt happen within the universe of the movie, but the way they showed it caused me to roll my eyes because within their rules it was explained with logic for 8 year olds.

you can't even keep your own logic straight. Stop rolling your eyes next time you watch a movie and maybe you'll be able to keep up with whats going on

With two face thats something you have to do to keep the character the same as its always been, with Bruce is a conscious decision to be extremely vague about his rehab process, its not the same thing at all.

What was vague about it? You're just spouting nonsense
 
I thought it was strange that the two Batman vs Bane fights were just boxing matches. One of the things I find interesting about Batman is that he usually doesn't rely on brute force to win fights. He uses gadgets, misdirection, devices plans. In Rises, you don't see this side of him at all. I guess they hinted at it in the first Bane fight with that smoke bomb that seemed pointless, but that's it.

It would have been more powerful if the movie presented Bane as the violent monster and Batman as the non-violent solution maker. Show that violence doesn't solve problems, and never triumphs over careful planning and smart tactics. Instead, it's two dudes punching each other, and its ultimately won by women with weapons. Yay?
They were both trained by the league of shadows. So all that trickery or gadgets, as they alluded to earlier in the movie, wasn't going to determine the fight.
 
I feel bad for the people that let unrealistic events in a SUPERHERO movie ruin their experience with a film. How could somebody who is a fan of batman and liked the first two movies NOT enjoy this film even a little bit? I know the movie has a ton of flaws, but it's a great ending to the trilogy with some wonderful fight scenes. Sure, the editing is subpar, and the pacing is off in a lot of places, but it's packed with these adrenaline fueled moments that I really don't get out of any other film: when Batman first appears, when Bruce makes the jump, and when Bats finally starts kicking Bane's ass. I dunno, I just don't understand how anybody who liked the previous movies could receive absolutely no satisfaction from this film.
 
You haven't read Knightfall, have you?

Not really a fan of most of Batman stories in the 90's, so no. All I know is Batman gets his back broken by Bane, Azrael becomes Batman and eventually Batman comes back.

However, I know for a fact the flavor of that book is much different than the Nolan universe, so what do you mean?


I feel bad for the people that let unrealistic events in a SUPERHERO movie ruin their experience with a film. How could somebody who is a fan of batman and liked the first two movies NOT enjoy this film even a little bit? I know the movie has a ton of flaws, but it's a great ending to the trilogy with some wonderful fight scenes. Sure, the editing is subpar, and the pacing is off in a lot of places, but it's packed with these adrenaline fueled moments that I really don't get out of any other film: when Batman first appears, when Bruce makes the jump, and when Bats finally starts kicking Bane's ass. I dunno, I just don't understand how anybody who liked the previous movies could receive absolutely no satisfaction from this film.

Lol I said I enjoyed it a lot in my first post, this is all nitpicking.
 
He didn't get "thrown into" the first fight. He was tracking Bane in the sewers. There was no hint that he had a plan other than punching him.

"I've done it before, I can do it again."

He thought he could overcome the odds, regardless; he was cocky.

Not to mention, that's discounting the fact that he did use both smoke grenades and the EMP that killed the lights when he was getting desperate.
 
They were both trained by the league of shadows. So all that trickery or gadgets, as they alluded to earlier in the movie, wasn't going to determine the fight.

Because they had the same training their training goes away? The hell sense does that make?:

"We both know kung fu so let's just box and throw haymakers instead".
 
Noob question: Harvey Dent is still alive, right? Why didn't we see him in TDKR at all?
 
He had already returned to Gotham at that point, he had met with Catwoman earlier. I agree that his entrance at the riot was good ... even if they didnt show him getting into the brawl, which was weird from a storytelling perspective.



With two face thats something you have to do to keep the character the same as its always been, with Bruce is a conscious decision to be extremely vague about his rehab process, its not the same thing at all.



Lol no, the screaming and all was fine even though if thats all you need to fix severe back issues then .. yeah, allright. Next cut hes already doing pushups and shit. Listen, if you think its perfectly told, then awesome, but it didnt play out that way with me and people I went to see it with, so its not like Im crazy picky here.
But Nolan reminds everyone that he's going through months of rehab as when he first enters it, the time bomb is set to go off in like 5 months, and by the time he makes the jump, he has no more than a few days.
 
I have no idea what happened in that fight anymore. Quick recap?

I expect more from Batman than thuggery. Plus, in a movie that was lacking in the social commentary (especially compared to DK), a violence vs. non-violence theme could have been a powerful statement.



He didn't get "thrown into" the first fight. He was tracking Bane in the sewers. There was no hint that he had a plan other than punching him.
There was the whole occupy vs wall street theme.
 
I almost wish they used subtitles saying "3 months later" or something like that because everything was pushed together and made it seem like Bruce was rehabilitated overnight. The only real indicators are the snow and the occasional "how much time do we have left" questions that tell us that months have really passed.
 
Yes he does break him physically and mentally.

In the end, he decides to stay as Batman for as long as he can. It's implied he's going to search for a partner so he doesn't have to protect Gotham alone for the rest of his life. It ends with everyone in the city cheering when the Bat signal is turned on (quite the change of tone for a Batman film) and he is on top of a building for a few seconds then swoops down. Credits.

Uh I just saw the movie, and I didn't see any of this? WTF?

I saw everyone think he was dead and erect a statue for him, that funeral for Bruce Wayne, and they showed that Wayne survived when Alfred sees him and Selena at that cafe. And "Robin" found the batcave. What is all this other stuff you are talking about?
 
you can't even keep your own logic straight. Stop rolling your eyes next time you watch a movie and maybe you'll be able to keep up with whats going on

What was vague about it? You're just spouting nonsense

We are arguing about the back thing right? Lets say Im wrong about this (dont think I am just because youre telling me so) What about the magical bat brace that fixes legs?
 
I thought it was strange that the two Batman vs Bane fights were just boxing matches. One of the things I find interesting about Batman is that he usually doesn't rely on brute force to win fights. He uses gadgets, misdirection, devices plans. In Rises, you don't see this side of him at all. I guess they hinted at it in the first Bane fight with that smoke bomb that seemed pointless, but that's it.

It would have been more powerful if the movie presented Bane as the violent monster and Batman as the non-violent solution maker. Show that violence doesn't solve problems, and never triumphs over careful planning and smart tactics. Instead, it's two dudes punching each other, and its ultimately won by women with weapons. Yay?


I didn't think it was strange. I thought it was awesome. Bale growling and grunting during the first fight was chilling and his growling after knocking off a hose to banes mask was an awesome payoff. I'm perfectly fine with the boxing matches. Sometimes batman has to punch a bitch.
 
I get the technical nitpicking for Prometheus, but for this movie it doesn't make as much sense.

Nolan does a fantastic job of making the Batman universe seem real, but it's still a comic book world where sometimes illogical and inexplicable things happen. If your gripe is with the series that's one thing, but this movie isn't any more unrealistic than the other two.
 
There was the whole occupy vs wall street theme.

"Theme" is a bit of a stretch. They mentioned it a couple times (Catwomen, kicking the rich out of their homes) but didn't say or do anything with it.

I didn't think it was strange. I thought it was awesome. Bale growling and grunting during the first fight was chilling and his growling after knocking off a hose to banes mask was an awesome payoff. I'm perfectly fine with the boxing matches. Sometimes batman has to punch a bitch.

Yeah, I guess, for me, it just feeds into the "violence solves all" culture we live, and doesn't make for interesting film making.
 
Great movie. There's a few things I thought we weird, one of which I haven't seen touched on - maybe someone can answer it. If the last sighting of the Batman was the night that Harvey Dent died, what happened in the 8 years that followed that made Bruce Wayne's body deteriorate so much? Seems stupid to me that while he may have abused his body in the ONE YEAR that he was Batman, his body would have fallen apart that much in such a short amount of time. Am I missing something?

Also, do something about the AURORA. Please. It's tasteless...I thought GAFs standards were higher. Which ever mod did that should be ashamed and bam himself.
 
So, violence defeats violence. That's not particularly interesting.

Bane was supposed to present a physical challenge Batman was supposed to overcome, one that he has to rise up to contend with. Batman defeating him through a non-violent solution would ruin the whole point of their struggle.
 
That music that plays during the plane sequence at the beginning is resonating in my ears

Has become a fucking ear-worm, can't stop hearing that haunting beat

I think it's called Gotham's Reckoning... So Good!
 
Great movie. There's a few things I thought we weird, one of which I haven't seen touched on - maybe someone can answer it.

If the last sighting of the Batman was the night that Harvey Dent died, what happened in the 8 years that followed that would have made Bruce Wayne's body deteriorate so much? Seems stupid to me that while he may have abused his body in the ONE YEAR that he was Batman, his body would have fallen apart that much in such a short amount of time.

Also, do something about the AURORA. Please. It's tasteless...I thought GAFs standards were higher. Which ever mod did that should be ashamed and bam himself.

It wasn't really clear but the logical scenario is that he fucked his leg up in the fall with Dent at the end of TDK. The rest of his body wasn't' really fucked up, just out of shape as he had become a recluse and didn't do shit for 8 years.
 
Not really a fan of most of Batman stories in the 90's, so no. All I know is Batman gets his back broken by Bane, Azrael becomes Batman and eventually Batman comes back.

However, I know for a fact the flavor of that book is much different than the Nolan universe, so what do you mean?

I know it's different. Nolan takes the stories of Batman, and executes them in a realistic, or hyper realistic or quasirealistic, however you want to see it, way.

In Knightfall, as a side effect of a psychic battle against her brother, a doctor healed Wayne's back with her powers. To rehabilitate his skills, Bruce asks the famed assassin Lady Shiva to retrain him. Instead, Shiva pits Bruce against several vengeful expert martial artists. Shiva's caveat is that these attacks will continue indefinitely until Bruce Wayne breaks his vow to never kill. Finally, in the midst of another attack, Bruce feigns using the "Leopard Blow" fatal maneuver Shiva had taught him, leaving his would-be assailant apparently dead. Shiva finally declares him worthy of fighting her at some point in the future.

Given that, I just don't see how a normal healing process with additional training within the prison over the course of 6 months is in any way out of tone with the rest of the films. He took the same basic idea and executed it in a more realistic way, as he had done with all his batman films. And Batman recovering from his injuries this way is no less faithful to Batman's comic roots than twoface was.
 
Great movie. There's a few things I thought we weird, one of which I haven't seen touched on - maybe someone can answer it.

If the last sighting of the Batman was the night that Harvey Dent died, what happened in the 8 years that followed that would have made Bruce Wayne's body deteriorate so much? Seems stupid to me that while he may have abused his body in the ONE YEAR that he was Batman, his body would have fallen apart that much in such a short amount of time.

Also, do something about the AURORA. Please. It's tasteless...I thought GAFs standards were higher. Which ever mod did that should be ashamed and bam himself.

I get the sense that his deterioration is more psychological than anything. He's clinging to his pain and, in a sense, wants to die, so that's why he isn't recovering as he should.
 
It wasn't really clear but the logical scenario is that he fucked his leg up in the fall with Dent at the end of TDK. The rest of his body wasn't' really fucked up, just out of shape as he had become a recluse and didn't do shit for 8 years.

I moreso got the feeling that the combination of all the shit he did in the first two movies just caught up with him. I'm basing that off the explanation by the doctor about all the things wrong with him. I don't think it was that specific event at the end of Dark Knight that injured him. I mean, in Batman Begins he falls like three stories onto the top of a car.
 
Because they had the same training their training goes away? The hell sense does that make?:

"We both know kung fu so let's just box and throw haymakers instead".

No, as in the first fight, Bane was able to see through the trickery because he was trained by the league. So he knows how to focus. In the 2nd fight, Batman knew it was worthless using those tactics so he went straight for the fight.
 
Bane was supposed to present a physical challenge Batman was supposed to overcome, one that he has to rise up to contend with. Batman defeating him through a non-violent solution would ruin the whole point of their struggle.

How does using a non-violent approach ruin the point of their struggle? The Batman symbolizes power over oppression. It's the hope that there is a good force out there to vanquish evil. But by making the good triumph through physical strength, it eliminates the "anyone can be The Batman" theme. It solidifies that raw power is all that's needed to take charge.
 
I know it's different. Nolan takes a realistic, or hyper realistic or quasirealistic, however you want to see it, take on the batman universe.

In Knightfall, as a side effect of a psychic battle against her brother, a doctor healed Wayne's back with her powers. To rehabilitate his skills, Bruce asks the famed assassin Lady Shiva to retrain him. Instead, Shiva pits Bruce against several vengeful expert martial artists. Shiva's caveat is that these attacks will continue indefinitely until Bruce Wayne breaks his vow to never kill. Finally, in the midst of another attack, Bruce feigns using the "Leopard Blow" fatal maneuver Shiva had taught him, leaving his would-be assailant apparently dead. Shiva finally declares him worthy of fighting her at some point in the future.

Given that, I just don't see how a normal healing process with additional training within the prison over the course of 6 months is in any way out of tone with the rest of the films. He took the same basic idea and executed it in a more realistic way, as he had done with all his batman films. And Batman recovering from his injuries this way is no less faithful to Batman's comic roots than twoface was.

To be honest, I kept expecting them to throw Bruce in the Lazarus Pit, but obviously theres no magic in the Nolan universe really, so thats out. My basic nitpick is "I expected more of the rehab montage"
 
Its the same in Dark Knight Returns. When Bruce abandons the mantle, the war wounds come back to cripple him. Getting back into the game energises him and subsides the pain. People can overcome any pain through adrenaline.
 
We can talk a lot about the themes here. Specifically of Batman as a person whose lost his purpose in life and is now struggling to get it back. This is different than begins because he feels he's already failed and lost connection with other people, where as before he still had his connection, he just ignored them in favor of something else. Rises is, above all, a story about a man that is trying to set his life right. This is reflected in Talia, who suffered a similar fate, but instead chose to carry out her fathers plan to for no real purpose, and died with no point. And I don't see how it was rushed, tedious, or convoluted. I actually thought it took it's time. I was never bored and I think this was far more straightforward than TDK was.

And I felt that TDK had the audio thing as much as TDKR does.

The first two movies, you felt like you were watching something unfold, evolve. In this one it's like you're watching layers and layers of ideas abruptly being placed next to each other.

So the end result was very choppy. Very messy. If he had taken one idea he felt was most important to complete the trilogy beautifully, and done it as fluidly as BB and TDK it may have been something. In BB and TDK you were following a sequence of events which effectively allowed you to anticipate what would happen next. In TDKR it's just abruptly slapped on.
 
No, as in the first fight, Bane was able to see through the trickery because he was trained by the league. So he knows how to focus. In the 2nd fight, Batman knew it was worthless using those tactics so he went straight for the fight.

Have you heard the argument "Give Batman an infinite time to prepare and he can defeat anyone!" In Rises, Batman is given 5 months to prepare for a fight with Bane, and comes up with a plan to punch him in the face. That's not exactly the characterization that makes Batman such a fascinating character. This is a guy who could triumph over a bear in the woods while naked! He can even beat Superman! But in this, his great plan is to punch Bane in the face?
 
So they never do call Selina Catwoman in the film right? It was something that crossed my mind this morning. Pretty cool

I wondered about that and the reason is Selina is not a hero to the public. No public image. (not in this universe) She is not a symbol and prefers to stay in the shadows.

For the few who know her to call her Catwoman would seem kind of silly.
 
i don't know why but I always assumed bane would break batman's back and throw him in the prison for eight years, and that's how we would see Gotham go to hell over time. I guess having Bruce in one place for eight years wouldn't have been too plot-moving though...
 
"Theme" is a bit of a stretch. They mentioned it a couple times (Catwomen, kicking the rich out of their homes) but didn't say or do anything with it.



Yeah, I guess, for me, it just feeds into the "violence solves all" culture we live, and doesn't make for interesting film making.


I just think batman in nolans universe likes to fight. He's more of an animal than detective comic batman. He's not a super genius and has to rely on fox for a lot of things. That being said he does do a lot of things himself and outsmarts people. Its just that I think for the movies to work as action movies they wanted bats to be a terrifying physical force. I'm fine with that because it makes this version of batman slightly unique.
 
I don't know why Batman didn't think to mess with his mask. That's when he finally gets the upper hand in the fight, but it was by accident.

Best fights in the trilogy though.
 
Have you heard the argument "Give Batman an infinite time to prepare and he can defeat anyone!" In Rises, Batman is given 5 months to prepare for a fight with Bane, and comes up with a plan to punch him in the face. That's not exactly the characterization that makes Batman such a fascinating character. This is a guy who could triumph over a bear in the woods while naked! He can even beat Superman! But in this, his great plan is to punch Bane in the face?

hey it worked didn't it? haha
 
Have you heard the argument "Give Batman an infinite time to preparer and he can beat anyone!" In Rises, Batman is given 5 months to prepare for a fight with Bane, and comes up with a plan to punch him in the face. That's not exactly the characterization that makes Batman such a fascinating character. This is a guy who could trump a bear in the woods while naked! He can even beat Superman! But in this, his great plan is to punch Bane in the face?

No, he comes up with a plan to break the police out of the sewers, heal himself and his mind, and then take out Bane through combined arms.

I understand your point; it isn't perfect. But it isn't as simplistic as you're making it out to be.
 
"Theme" is a bit of a stretch. They mentioned it a couple times (Catwomen, kicking the rich out of their homes) but didn't say or do anything with it.



Yeah, I guess, for me, it just feeds into the "violence solves all" culture we live, and doesn't make for interesting film making.

Its not a stretch. Bane and Talia use it as a method to have Gotham share a hand in its own demise. Just like Has wanted. So you have the occupy movement standing by Bane vs the Batman and an organized establishment. Its the basis for others to be involved. Its sort of like a continuation of Jokers anarchy theme.
 
I almost wish they used subtitles saying "3 months later" or something like that because everything was pushed together and made it seem like Bruce was rehabilitated overnight. The only real indicators are the snow and the occasional "how much time do we have left" questions that tell us that months have really passed.

Blake's character specifically states that three months have passed. What more do you want? Or maybe it wasn't Blake, but during a conversation with the commissioner, SOMEONE says three months have passed.
 
All Batman needed was some kind of putty to spray over Bane's breathing hole. Instant profit

Blake's character specifically states that three months have passed. What more do you want? Or maybe it wasn't Blake, but during a conversation with the commissioner, SOMEONE says three months have passed.

They should have had a title card and a timelapse of trees
 
Have you heard the argument "Give Batman an infinite time to preparer and he can beat anyone!" In Rises, Batman is given 5 months to prepare for a fight with Bane, and comes up with a plan to punch him in the face. That's not exactly the characterization that makes Batman such a fascinating character. This is a guy who could trump a bear in the woods while naked! He can even beat Superman! But in this, his great plan is to punch Bane in the face?

Bane cannot feel pain with the mask or does it just ease his exsisting pain?

As soon as Batman broke the mask, Bane turned into a sort of wimp because he has not felt pain in so long?

What would you have Batman do? He figured out the best way to take him down.
 
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