The Mana Legend
Banned
I really wish people would realize this, but in the big scheme of things, The Joker was a pretty worthless character in the trilogy. Not a single one of his plans worked.
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I really wish people would realize this, but in the big scheme of things, The Joker was a pretty worthless character in the trilogy. Not a single one of his plans worked.
Biggest-Geek-Ever
Member
I really felt like an idiot when Talia stabbed Bruce. Not because I didn't see it coming, but because I STILL thought Bane was the child. I even thought of when he said "By time I saw the light I was already a man," and I still didn't fucking get it. :lol
I know, right? I wish there were more scenes like that, he looks so awesome and dramatic. It's a good look for him.
BUT WHAT ABOUT HIS BLACK EYE MAKE UP!?
Most revealing photos I saw were of Cotillard in the Talia outfit and I figured she'd be Talia Al Ghul.
Her stabbing Batman still caught me off-guard though.
I figured Miranda was Talia due to the first teaser with Ra's. And since I figured Ra's would remain dead... Boom! Daughter takes over.
I put two and two together before that child actress leaked who she was playing.
Razgriz-Specter
Member
RustyNails
Member
What? Only his ferry plan failed.
I think Anne Hathway is very pretty. Does her chest need to be popping out of the costume for her to look good as catwoman? Her personality was great too. Would have been nice to give her a scene with a pet cat or something though. For the folks who need to be hit over the head with it lol
His plan to turn Gotham into nutsville with the fall of Harvey Dent was ended with the bullshit Dent Act.
Bane succeeded where Joker failed by A: Killing the Mayor B: Turning Gotham into nutsville for real.
The Mana Legend
Banned
Tell me, what other plans of his worked in the grand scheme of things?
Shrennin
Didn't get the memo regarding the 14th Amendment
Saw this tonight and loved it. My few quibbles and observations (quickly since it's late, and I need to go to bed):
1) I wish Selina had been used more in the latter part of the film, particularly after Bruce is thrown in jail and Gotham is falling into chaos after the bombs. Hathaway did a great job, I thought, so I just wish she'd have had more to do at that point as a sort of touchstone for the audience for someone outside the police force.
2) Caine was absolutely amazing in this and the three films definitely have the best Alfred out of any of the Batman movies, there's absolutely no contesting this fact.
3) The score was amazing, and I had a huge grin on my face when Neeson showed up and the small Al'Ghul musical motif popped up, because I've always loved that bit from the BB score.
4) I think I may like it better than TDK, but it's been so long since I've watched TDK, I don't want to declare it a fact. What struck me was that while TDKR is dark, it doesn't seem as bleak as TDK. I think this is because most of TDK is the Joker trying really hard to prove humans are putrid creatures and I think it really starts to work on the audience near the end, whereas in TDKR, it felt much more like a group of people imposing their will on the city, and the city just trying to bear the evil, and even Selina ends up having a good side.
5) There wasn't a single performance as stand-out as Ledger was in TDK, but that's hard to top obviously.
6) I'm in the camp that really dislikes the shot of Bruce and Selina at the cafe at the end. I was really hoping we'd see Alfred nod and we'd be left to our own devices because it should be obvious what that means. I know, I know, there are people that are STILL confused by it, but I'd rather Nolan edit for those of us with brains and intuition rather than for the lowest common denominator.
7) I really think we shouldn't have actually seen an actual visual flashback to Talia escaping the prison until it's revealed who she is and she relates the reveal. We should have just gotten the story told in dialogue before that point, because the whole, "Haha, tricked you, it's a girl!!" aspect to the visual just annoys me for some reason.
8) At the end of the day I don't know if the movie even really NEEDED Bane at all. I don't know who you'd replace him with per say, but once the reveal of Talia is done you sort of realize he didn't really have a huge arc in the movie that provided a ton of motivation.
9) I liked how it was implied that "Robin" was actually taking up the Batman mantle rather than actually being Robin. At least, that's what I got out of it.
Anyway, will definitely see it again, and it was a great way to end the trilogy. I never would have thought when I saw Batman Begins all those years ago that I would feel nearly as sad saying goodbye to this incarnation of Batman as I did saying goodbye to Middle-Earth when RoTK ended.
1) I wish Selina had been used more in the latter part of the film, particularly after Bruce is thrown in jail and Gotham is falling into chaos after the bombs. Hathaway did a great job, I thought, so I just wish she'd have had more to do at that point as a sort of touchstone for the audience for someone outside the police force.
2) Caine was absolutely amazing in this and the three films definitely have the best Alfred out of any of the Batman movies, there's absolutely no contesting this fact.
3) The score was amazing, and I had a huge grin on my face when Neeson showed up and the small Al'Ghul musical motif popped up, because I've always loved that bit from the BB score.
4) I think I may like it better than TDK, but it's been so long since I've watched TDK, I don't want to declare it a fact. What struck me was that while TDKR is dark, it doesn't seem as bleak as TDK. I think this is because most of TDK is the Joker trying really hard to prove humans are putrid creatures and I think it really starts to work on the audience near the end, whereas in TDKR, it felt much more like a group of people imposing their will on the city, and the city just trying to bear the evil, and even Selina ends up having a good side.
5) There wasn't a single performance as stand-out as Ledger was in TDK, but that's hard to top obviously.
6) I'm in the camp that really dislikes the shot of Bruce and Selina at the cafe at the end. I was really hoping we'd see Alfred nod and we'd be left to our own devices because it should be obvious what that means. I know, I know, there are people that are STILL confused by it, but I'd rather Nolan edit for those of us with brains and intuition rather than for the lowest common denominator.
7) I really think we shouldn't have actually seen an actual visual flashback to Talia escaping the prison until it's revealed who she is and she relates the reveal. We should have just gotten the story told in dialogue before that point, because the whole, "Haha, tricked you, it's a girl!!" aspect to the visual just annoys me for some reason.
8) At the end of the day I don't know if the movie even really NEEDED Bane at all. I don't know who you'd replace him with per say, but once the reveal of Talia is done you sort of realize he didn't really have a huge arc in the movie that provided a ton of motivation.
9) I liked how it was implied that "Robin" was actually taking up the Batman mantle rather than actually being Robin. At least, that's what I got out of it.
Anyway, will definitely see it again, and it was a great way to end the trilogy. I never would have thought when I saw Batman Begins all those years ago that I would feel nearly as sad saying goodbye to this incarnation of Batman as I did saying goodbye to Middle-Earth when RoTK ended.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Yeah, but the plan with Dent failed at the expense of the Batman. As consolation prizes go thats not half bad.
BruceLeeRoy
Banned
Fuzzy Reactor is nuts. I don't even like Hathaway but she is the best Catwoman ever. She was fantastic.
NaturalHigh
Member
Okay, so did Bane really get killed by that missile blast? I don't think he is dead. And how the fuck did Batman survive?
GekigangerV
Member
Just got back from seeing it, definitely thought it was good, but it did have some weird points.
Outside of the obvious weirdness of Bruce's back being fixed with rope technology, I found myself wondering for the duration of the prison scene why nobody was just climbing the rope safety rope that clearly led to the top. Also bugged me: if the fail-safe for the reaction device was to fill the chamber with water, why exactly couldn't Batman just dump it in the river at the end? Oh, and my friend was claiming that a number of scenes seemed to be inconsistent with day/night transitions, particularly the stock exchange scene into the chase. I didn't notice myself, but is this accurate?
The big thing I'm still not sure how I felt about is the portrayal of Bane. I liked the character's dialogue, personality, and background. I feel like I like most of the look he was going for. But I just... didn't like the mask. It felt off to me somehow. And of course the voice caught me off guard. I was expecting something a little more tough and gritty, but he felt almost a little elegant. Not sure if I dislike what they did there, but at the very least it caught me off guard. Oh, and not giving the "Robin" character an actual Robin name made me a little sad. Would it have been that tricky to change that Blake to a Drake?
Still, I definitely enjoyed it, and I found it a nice close to the series.
Outside of the obvious weirdness of Bruce's back being fixed with rope technology, I found myself wondering for the duration of the prison scene why nobody was just climbing the rope safety rope that clearly led to the top. Also bugged me: if the fail-safe for the reaction device was to fill the chamber with water, why exactly couldn't Batman just dump it in the river at the end? Oh, and my friend was claiming that a number of scenes seemed to be inconsistent with day/night transitions, particularly the stock exchange scene into the chase. I didn't notice myself, but is this accurate?
The big thing I'm still not sure how I felt about is the portrayal of Bane. I liked the character's dialogue, personality, and background. I feel like I like most of the look he was going for. But I just... didn't like the mask. It felt off to me somehow. And of course the voice caught me off guard. I was expecting something a little more tough and gritty, but he felt almost a little elegant. Not sure if I dislike what they did there, but at the very least it caught me off guard. Oh, and not giving the "Robin" character an actual Robin name made me a little sad. Would it have been that tricky to change that Blake to a Drake?
Still, I definitely enjoyed it, and I found it a nice close to the series.
demosthenes
Member
People STILL think that Bruce is dead. They even showed him and they think he's dead. If they didn't show him what would they be thinking then?
The missle blast could blow away a bunch of cars but Bane survived? Every single page, it seems lol
RoninChaos
Member
LMAO Oh my fucking god.
Green Mamba
Member
Uh, Bane was established to be super duper strong, yes, but he's still human. I think a missile to the chest would end pretty much anyone.
demosthenes
Member
The only reason his blood/guts weren't splattered on the walls was b/c this was PG-13.
RustyNails
Member
Grand scheme? Does joker look like a schemer?
His plan to blow up Gotham Hospital, his bank heist, the switcheroo with Harvey and Rachel (knowing Bats would speed towards Rachel), his prison breakout, his "turning" of Harvey Dent into Harvey Two Face, etc. His switcheroo of hostages and thugs during the final skyscraper shootout also worked, if you don't count Batman subduing the SWAT team.
Joker was always a step ahead of everyone, until the ferry shenanigans.
MisterAnderson
Member
Did anyone else get the vibe that the pit/prison is reminiscent of the well that Bruce falls into as a child? The imagery is eerily similar.
RustyNails
Member
I'm pretty sure I saw Bane's head get decapitated and fling across from the cannon blast from Batpod...All you re-watchers, please confirm this for me!
I think we all got it. It's like a poem.
RoninChaos
Member
The only real issues I have are how JGL came to the conclussion that bruce was Batman, how Bruce got back into Gotham, and why Batman would leave some amateur to take his place. I realize this is the Nolan verse, and Bruce had been looking for a way out. Hell, he quit before. With that said, I just don't see how he could say "Here, you take this mantle, and do something with it" because he doesn't know the guys skills, his training, etc. Bruce traveled the world and trained with the deadliest assassin's on earth. JGL was in a boys home and joined GCPD. It almost seems... irresponsible?
Did anyone else get the vibe that the pit/prison is reminiscent of the well that Bruce falls into as a child? The imagery is eerily similar.
Vibe? There are several references to that. Even the movie title
Did anyone else get the vibe that the pit/prison is reminiscent of the well that Bruce falls into as a child? The imagery is eerily similar.
That was the point. Also, Bruce was an expert cave climber so him actually climbing out didn't seem too crazy, what's crazy is how a rope fixed a broken spine.
The theory is that JGL is actually the Riddler, and Batman just handed him Gotham on a silver platter
Hasphat'sAnts
Member
That was pretty much laid out in front of you with neon signs.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Lets see how far we can take this. Can we get half the internet thinking, within a month, that JGL is the Riddler?
We'll just have to imagine the fire.
That's why the beginning of my JGL as Robin fanfic opens up with Robin taking martial arts training that Bruce paid for before he left..
The Mana Legend
Banned
Uh, it wasn't a broken spine.
As if Bruce could really stay away if he saw Gotham being taken over and Blake was failing to do his job.
Shrennin
Didn't get the memo regarding the 14th Amendment
My guess with this, at least, is that it was a reference to Tim Drake, who was the only Robin to actually figure out Batman's identify. He's also my favorite Robin, so that helps!
Also, did the safety rope lead to the top of the pit? If so, then that's clearly a plot hole...
EDIT:
Ahh, I guess that answers that then!
Hasphat'sAnts
Member
THE TRAINING IS NOTHING! THE WILL IS EVERYTHING!
THE WILL TO ACT!
Ra's Al Ghul's still the best villain in the trilogy.
It didn't lead to the top. It only went like halfway up.
RustyNails
Member
I think Bat armor sort of stopped his spine from getting broken. A fractured vertabrae, maybe.
Did anyone else get the vibe that the pit/prison is reminiscent of the well that Bruce falls into as a child? The imagery is eerily similar.
nhlducks35
Member
Did anyone else get the vibe that the pit/prison is reminiscent of the well that Bruce falls into as a child? The imagery is eerily similar.
Full circle.
Maybe he tracked it down after Batman Begins? It seems like something he would do. He's obsessive.
Ghost_Protocol
Member
Did anyone else think Batman's suit looked cheaper in this one than in TDK? It looked very rubbery in the light.
demosthenes
Member
He was arrested shortly after he killed them. He probably had it on him still and it was given back to Wayne.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
It looked horrible in a lot of shots, especially the cowl. I was very surprised. Part of the problem was that so much of the movie was set during the day of course.
As I said, I'd really prefer Nolan have edited for those of us that aren't unthinking morons rather than editing for the idiots in the audience - as it makes for a much more interesting cut of the film, imo, when something like that is implied, makes it a more powerful moment.
Those of us with brains can explain it to everyone else.
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