She didn't just want to blow it up. She wanted to induce chaos for the world to see how Gotham was corrupt and could not be saved. That's why they let the 5 month timer count down. Setting the population loose on the elite was her version of the Scarecrow mass hallucination.
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She didn't just want to blow it up. She wanted to induce chaos for the world to see how Gotham was corrupt and could not be saved. That's why they let the 5 month timer count down. Setting the population loose on the elite was her version of the Scarecrow mass hallucination.
smokeymicpot
Beat EviLore at pool.
She was wearing them in the final scene when Alfred looks over.
Shrennin
Didn't get the memo regarding the 14th Amendment
What would be the point of revealing herself though? It seems like she revealed herself when it became necessary to save Bane. If it wasn't necessary, and she could still get inside information on the resistance if possible, then that was working to her advantage.
demosthenes
Member
It's what Solo has been saying which is what I'm basing my belief off.
But it is how I see it happening. Nolan is done. He will not come back. I doubt the others will without him.
Shrennin
Didn't get the memo regarding the 14th Amendment
I actually noticed that too haha
Alright, then, I'll accept that.
Still, Gotham seems quite clean and non corrupt until she unleashes criminals onto the city. The city was completely different than the one in BB. The only example of corruption in this case is the Harvey coverup, which is a scandal at best.
I also find it strange that (again, supposedly, because we're shown no evidence of it in this film) this incredibly crime ridden and corrupt city is home to the stock exchange. I thought crime drove away big business?
Search the thread, there are multiple signs pointing to Batman getting out alive. He got away before ever leaving Gotham, he was nowhere near the blast. Nolan makes it clear that Bruce Wayne lives, people that believe otherwise aren't noticing the clues throughout the end of the film.
I just don't agree with that at all though. Like the other guy said, this isn't Inception. There's no reason to believe otherwise, and all fingers point in the direction that it happened. There's nothing to the contrary that would say otherwise. It couldn't have been more grounded and definite without Bruce walking up to the camera saying, "Hey this is really me, I'm still alive, here's the proof."
The US Marines who came in, she is the one who gave up their position to Bane's men. She couldn't get that kind of intel if she wasn't embedded with the resistance.
smokeymicpot
Beat EviLore at pool.
He knew the fusion reactor could be used as a weapon that is why he didn't tell anyone about it. Only telling the person he thought he trusted.
The fingerprint shit is strange just for the fact there was a shooting in wall street and the market didn't stop. He should be getting back his cash.
Same way he got around in Batman Begins.
Hobbestetrician
Member
She also got lucky that Gotham apparently seceded (SomeDude shoutout!) from the US so they didn't have the might and abilities of the entire US military trying to do something. They could only spare three special forces guys who went down in five minutes.
"Sorry, Bruce, we know some bad shit went down on Wall St. yesterday but all your money is gone. There is no way the hostage situation had anything to do with that and the market doesn't stop for anything." Can't believe so much hinged on that stick-up and no one really batted an eye.
But I guess it was a stretch for Catwoman, Gordon, and the other 12 million Gotham City residents over an 8 year period. If only Bruce Wayne and Batman had conveniently disappeared and then reappeared at the exact same time over that 8 year period, maybe then they could've figured it out... Oh wait.
Inside information on the resistance why? She was planning on blowing up the city at the first sign of trouble anyways. Why does she care what the resistance does?
demosthenes
Member
Exactly. It would have all come back.
So The Joker wasn't lying?
Shrennin
Didn't get the memo regarding the 14th Amendment
Well, the police corruption seen in BB could have changed drastically with Gordon's promotion to commissioner. Even then we see that the mayor planned to "dump" Gordon eventually. Gotham was still a corrupt city, but that doesn't mean that there aren't good people in Gotham at all.
So she knows when to blow it up, if she has to? I mean, I assume she didn't want to blow it up until the reactor decayed and blew up on its timetable. If she could continue causing the resistance to fail by feeding inside information to Bane, then that would crush the people of Gotham even more.
It just doesn't make sense for her to reveal herself until it was absolutely necessary. She wasn't in danger of Bane and as long as the resistance viewed her as an ally then all it could do was work to her advantage.
Biggest-Geek-Ever
Member
Thousands of people being arrested and then not offered parole, all based on the idea that Dent was a hero and not a murdering psychopath, is way bigger than a scandal.
And that's assuming the Dent Act's biggest deal was the lack of parole. Considering they had to build an entire prison because of it, it was probably entitled a lot more than that.
I didn't see the Miranda Tate reveal coming at all since I was never a big Batman reader. My only exposure to Al Ghul was one or two episodes of TAS (which I'm not sure that Talia appeared in) and the first movie (which was long enough ago that I forgot any kids he may have had). I think even if I remembered that Ra's only had a daughter I would have just assumed that only the daughter had been mentioned before since Bane was the Black Sheep of the family in the movie (having gotten kicked out of the League of Shadows, etc.)
Regarding how Bruce got back to Gotham after climbing out of the prison, this question was posed to me by somebody after the movie. My response - "he's the Goddamn Batman."
Regarding how Bruce got back to Gotham after climbing out of the prison, this question was posed to me by somebody after the movie. My response - "he's the Goddamn Batman."
So she can get the full 5 months instead of having to detonate prematurely?
Should've listened. He's a man of his word.
Well, it'd be a pretty big scandal. A coverup that killed the Due Process part of the justice system, and hundreds/thousands of people locked in prison longer than their sentence dictated. In a weird way, it was another "Band Aid" on the corruption of the city, like the band aid that was the Wayne's Murder, according to Ras.
Also, NYC has had the Stock Exchange for years. It's good now, but there were a few decades where crime was rampant in NYC. Stock Exchange didn't move then.
I find that quite annoying as well. The whole situation in Gotham was possible because of this incredible coincidence: that she was able to rise up to the top of Wayne Enterprises and somehow gain Bruce Wayne's infinite trust in a few short years. Also, she knew that he was Batman somehow...and we were led to believe that she was not on speaking terms with her father prior to his death so I have no idea where she would have found that out.
She cared enough about getting them to follow the decoy truck. She was keeping an eye on them to make sure they didn't do anything severe to their plans.
Like she said, they wanted to give them hope just so they can dash them at the last minute.
Theatricality and deception are powerful agents for the uninitiated. But we are initiated, aren't we, Bruce?
Oh boy, you are in for a show tonight, son!
Shrennin
Didn't get the memo regarding the 14th Amendment
Well, Bruce did keep her from the inside knowledge until he was absolutely forced to because he was losing his company. Until that point, she was the only one who consistently helped fund the project and seemed to care about it. Their plan was to force Bruce to bring someone into the fold and it worked because Talia had been working on gaining Bruce's trust for much longer than when the movie started.
YOU'RE IN FOR A SHOW TONIGHT!
Hobbestetrician
Member
Was it years? It seemed he met her for the first time at the party where Selina steals his car so it was only like a week later that he was turning over the whole company to her. I know she had been investing all that time but that shouldn't necessitate handing the company over to her.
Biggest-Geek-Ever
Member
THE SPEED! THE FEROCITY!
Something Bane said.
smokeymicpot
Beat EviLore at pool.
She had enough money to make a plan that worked. Took a few years but she was 6 minutes away from winning. About her father chances are she talked to her father still. But for Bruce he had to either trust the girl he had a thing for that wanted to save energy or pick the guy he knew that was working with Bane.
Heh, a few short days then in that case. Even more ridiculous.
I still don't understand why he built the reactor if he knew it could be used as a weapon. Would there be a magical point in time when fusion would suddenly become a completely safe and non-exploitable form of energy? Did he learn nothing from history?
Actually now that I think about it, the way Bruce threw "you have my permission to die" back at Bane made me think about GAF's horrible quote abuse, lol.
No one cared who I was until I put on the mask.
smokeymicpot
Beat EviLore at pool.
It was years she said it been 4 years or something since Bruce funded the project or some shit.
Ras' men knew Bruce was Batman and surely at least one of them escaped at the end of Batman Begins. When she assumed leadership of the League of Shadows that guy could've told her.
This is actually my main gripe with the movie, there is zero ambiguity in the ending.
Fox finds out autopilot was already installed, and then they show Bruce sitting there when Alfred looks up.
I don't know if panning away after seeing the look on Alfred's face would have made it a better movie, but it would have opened the ending up to debate. As it was, everything was wrapped up and explained with no room for interpretation.
BeautifulMemory
Member
Why does Itune get a deluxe edition for the soundtrack? I see 3 new, different tracks -_-
That wasn't their first meeting I think, just their first meeting since he mothballed the fusion project.
"Crashing" actually, but yes, when that horrific (in theme, not quality) music kicks in...whooooa.
I posted this in the other topic, but here's a copy to go in this one:
No, it's not nitpicking. It's true, and the movie is full of that kind of shit. Why the fuck he made a city of 12 million people (as they kept repeating) look so totally dead is beyond me. The only time we saw any citizens was in the trials and the fight in front of the jail. In any sort of logical reality, there would have been a million people at that bridge by day three, much less five months in. By two months, the roads would have been unusable, there would have been widespread crime and murder (because every single cop in the city except for the ones we like were stuck underground), and everyone would have long forgotten about the unfairness of rich people, much less bother to hold trials.
But what bothered me far more is the idea that they would not only have a rough idea of when an unstable nuclear energy source/weapon - which by the way was supposedly brand new and totally unique and thus would be even more impossible to predict - but they actually knew down to the second when it would blow.
Then there's Bruce's three minute smirky conversation trying to convince Selina that she's a good person while the city is five hours away from being vaporized. No one thought to tell Bale he should maybe look a little more serious? Especially considering how personally injured he was at the thought of Gotham being destroyed? And how long did it take to find her, considering she professionally hides for a living and was randomly walking down some avenue? All of it time well spent. Fox, meanwhile, was apparently hard to find. I mean, certainly he couldn't invent something that might make it a little easier for the one man who could save the city to find him.
Four hours to go, let's go create a flame bat signal because it looks cool.
I was told by the Batman to get as many people over this bridge (that, once again, should have been crammed with angry people doing anything they could to get out) as I can. Here's a bus half full of orphans. That ought to do it.
I had time to build the Bat (really? that's the best name they could come up with? And don't propellors need a lot of space above them to pull in the air necessary to remain aloft?), but I was just too busy to put in the autopilot. I sure hope that doesn't become an important oversight.
I wish I could let all these idiocies go like I do for most action pictures. But Nolan seems to want us to think a lot. Unfortunately, he only wants us to think about certain aspects that he has carefully manicured. The other stuff not so much. Anyways, I should just stop seeing his movies. I haven't enjoyed one since Memento. I just keep getting caught up in the Gaf hype. The funny thing is that I loved the first forty minutes or so, which apparently everyone else hated, and then the annoyances began to add up at an exponential rate.
Tpthrlldragster
Member
To be fair, Batman disappeared 8 years ago, Bruce stuck around for a few years working on the energy project. When the project, failed he became a recluse.
Shrennin
Didn't get the memo regarding the 14th Amendment
That quote obviously also went against Batman's "one rule." Part of me was thinking that Bane finally broke Batman to the point where he was willing to break that rule - essentially what Joker was trying to do (and kinda succeeded in, honestly).
That's not how it turned out, so it just became a pretty cheesy way of throwing back a line which has no weight from the character it is coming from to the character who originally said that line.
Nothing wrong with that. The end of the movie is clearly a matter of passing the reins on to Blake, so an ambiguous Bruce death really has no place.
Did anyone else think it was weird that we got no mentions of the Joker at all? I mean I understand that it's a sore subject since Ledger died, but still, I feel like it's worth mentioning, especially since Bane frees all the prisoner.
"TRIGGER!? TTTTTTTTTTTTRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGEEEEEEEEEEEEEERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!? WHERE'S THE TRIGGGGGGER!?"
"TRIGGER!? TTTTTTTTTTTTRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGEEEEEEEEEEEEEERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!? WHERE'S THE TRIGGGGGGER!?"
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