This city is awesome.
Time to run the one in the Pheasant Lane Mall in Nashua out...
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CFA response to anti-gay alleg. "Guilty as charged." Do NOT gloat about eating at CFA
- Thread starter RBH
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Time to run the one in the Pheasant Lane Mall in Nashua out...
And cities have the freedom to not allow CFA. CFA's freedom of speech is not hindered at all.
It's discrimination based on beliefs. That's about the same thing. Can a member of the KKK open a business? What about a gang member? A felon? A Black Panther member? Amazing how you all are ok with this.
So we should only offer protection for speech we find non-offensive?
Look, I don't like Chick-Fil-A's policy supporting anti-gay causes and I'm glad a lot of people are outraged about it too. I agree with protests, boycotts etc. But I have to say I think the Mayor's letter, which makes it clear any denial of permits is content based rather than legally based is inappropriate.
How far should local governments be able to take this viewpoint discrimination? Should it just be restricting businesses that restrict gay rights or the rights of other minorities, they can't get permits, but any other business follows normal practices? Suppose that an Alabama city took an opposite point of view and denied a business a permit because the owner was known to hold personal positions contrary to Alabama law and policy? Suppose a town in Texas banned businesses not of the Christian faith because that's how the town identified?
I agree with the SENTIMENTS of the Boston mayor, I really do. I just think this has been poorly thought out and should not stand on those grounds. Businesses of whatever viewpoint should be allowed to enter a town as long as they're compliant with all local ordinances.
Hold a vote then, this isn't a cities one voice it's a mayors abuse of power. If the city did not want them there the business would fail on its own right?
Shouldnt the guideline be whats illegal and what isnt? If the chain isnt showing any discriminatory actions in the workplace, if they arent donating to any illegal organizations then the government shouldnt be closing off their borders.
Its scary to think that a mayor could maybe look at the list of all those companies that supported prop 8 and decide that they arent able to do business in his area.
Freedom of speech, heh. The problem with freedom of speech is that it enables hate or discrimination under its guise. I am certain that the inception of "free speech" was not intended to support discriminatory or oppressive views rather the opposite. It's a double edged sword and by the same token people have every right to openly detest Dan Cathy's comment and CFA which donates to organization that oppose rights and freedom for all.
Absolutely. However denying a business the right to open because they donate to anti gay org is not proper.
They do hold a vote, every few years...
Daydream Sequence
Banned
Which sauce are you referring to? Whenever I got one it was just the butter roll, the pickles, and the chicken.
Captain Sparrow
Banned
A-M-A-Z-I-N-G. We have a controversial discussion like gay marriage. Where those for it seeminly only want "equal rights." Yet some of those very same people are demanding a constitutional right be taken away from CFA.
Like I said earlier in this thread, Bigotry goes both ways.
Like I said earlier in this thread, Bigotry goes both ways.
Although I agree, he did cite traffic issues as his reason for denying them a zoning permit.
Exactly. And I think I agree with the mayor of Boston and Mr. Moreno from Chi-town just because I dislike CFA enough to not care whether or not they open a new location.
People should be able to voice their opinion by either eating there or not, and it shouldn't be up to an elected official to decide that (unless there were some serious issues or w/e). My problem with letting the people vote with their money is that I think a lot of people are uninformed about who CFA donates to, and some just don't care, despite being LBGT allies.
Am I correct in guessing you (and a lot of people currently posting with similar views) are part of EuroGAF? This is pretty well settled law in the US. I know it's the opposite in Europe but in the US the policy has long been (and most Americans seem fine with it) that the MOST reviled and disgusting speech should get the MOST protection. Thus you'll never see something like, for example a holocaust denial ban in the US, or a ban on various racist/homophobic/whatever groups based on their disgusting viewpoint.
Corporations are not people and they do not have constitutional rights.
Daydream Sequence
Banned
The problem isn't their speech. It's that they're taking money that the community pays them and uses it to actively inhibit the rights of others.
EatinOlives
Member
And like others said earlier, the bigotry-against-bigots argument is completely laughable.
Dude Abides
Banned
They're obviously wrong on the free speech issue but it isn't two way bigotry. Disliking someone's politics isn't bigotry.
The mayor can only block permits or other administrative things like that. Communities everywhere make decisions about what kinds of things they want in their cities every day, and if a mayor wants to deny a permit to a business because they don't feel that business would be an asset to the community, that's within their ability. There's no right to open a business and sell food.
I think freedom of speech is vital. And no one is saying they cannot have this speech. They just have to suffer the consequences. That may be that it is more difficult to get approval to run a business in some areas. Again, the government can be voted on every few years, if people don't like their decision. Zoning on arbitrary concerns has been a city prerogative for a very long time.
You should have used Diptic so you could have put all of those in one Instagram update.
Canadian actually.
And yea, Westboro Baptist Church is a shining example of tolerance for repugnant hatred.
I think that how certain people treat/regard "liberals" or "conservatives" is certainly within the realm of bigotry.
Dude Abides
Banned
Well, bigotry is a loose term, but I think it is useful to distinguish between a distaste for what a person believes and disliking who a person is.
Ok that's a incorrect view. CFA makes food. People buy the food if they want. What CFA does with it's profit as long as it is legal is their right. CFA isn't a government agency it's a private company.
Yea I bet you were super pissed when all those people spoke out for allowing black people rights. Those poor southerners. Having to endure going to the same schools as blacks. It was outrageous. The bigotry the white southerners received was just unbearable.
Sure, but it's not like saying it's taxpayer funding for an anti-gay group. What you're essentially objecting to, if I understand you correctly is that a CFA in Boston would sell a customer a product, and then the corporation may take a portion of that money (really a portion of the money they made getting it from the franchise when they sold them the supplies for it in the first place) and use it to fund anti-gay groups. That's ridiculous.
It's like a thread I did in 2008 that I thought was crazy THEN where a congressman argued that it was "taxpayer funding for pornography" for a soldier on a military base to buy PlayBoys and similar magazines with their salary. See the disconnect there?
Captain Sparrow
Banned
Chik Fil A has 4 billion in sales. The contributions were 4 million. If you really want to look at the "community aspect" of it. How much of Boston's sales are fighting gay marriage?
Either way, it isn't the point. Since when are businesses blocked because of one man's opinions on where donations go. I can ASSURE you that there are other mayors that don't agree with donations from their local businesses.
The government accepts donations for their own interests. It's pretty hard for them to be able to deny it for businesses then. Who blocks government donations?
True, but it's pretty clear that it is coming from a few individuals.
Unnecessary post. The thing with the word bigotry is that it's often used when someone doesn't agree with your opinion (yet you probably despise theirs even more).
Yes, but not CONTENT BASED RESTRICTIONS. That is, you can say this is zoned for commercial businesses, this is zoned for industrial, etc. You can say this business must have these specifications. But you CAN'T say "I don't like this company's political views so they can't come in on that basis." The government can do a lot, but it cannot discriminate based on your personal view.
That is useful. What I am saying is that there are plenty of people out there that dislike who a person is based on their being a "liberal" or a "conservative". They let that define them and judge them based on that singular factor.
This is not based on personal views, this is based on actions. If there were no donations, followed by ridiculous statements this would be a non event, like In n Out. No one is suggesting a boycott of them, even though it is very likely the owners feel much the same way.
I know the SC has said corporations are people, but they are not. They are created with the consent of the state, and are subordinate to the state in many matters. Whether they get to open in a certain area is one of them.
EatinOlives
Member
Ironic you say that...
Captain Sparrow
Banned
Please show me the part of the Mayor's letter that indicates it is based on actions, not views.
if its because of a view you hold then yes. well not your free speech but yes your rights are being violated
Exactly, not so sure what's so hard to understand. As evidenced they can say and do whatever they want, that is their free speech. They have it, they are exercising it with whatever statements they put out. Being able to open a store is not freedom of speech; it has nothing to do with that at all. There is no right to open a store wherever you please. The power is in the hands of the elected officials of a city. If they feel for whatever reason your business does not fit the atmosphere/community, they do not have to give you a permit to operate there.
If someone kicks me out of their home because of what I say, I can't claim they are denying my freedom of speech. Whatever statement I make, is mine to stand by; and their home is their property and it is in their discretion who to allow on to said property. I have to make a determination if visiting their home is more important to me than saying/doing things which will offend them. I have a choice either way, as does Chick-Fil-A.
Daydream Sequence
Banned
And the city of Boston has the right to restrict the access of a private company from doing business within their city. CFA are openly bigoted and freely admit to paying millions of dollars to restrict a right that the people of Boston have said is important to them. If the citizens of Boston or Chicago are upset by their mayors' decisions, they'll let them know.
Of course it's ridiculous, and it's what they're doing when they give millions of dollars of their profits from selling sandwiches to groups whose sole goal is to restrict the rights of gays.
LaserBuddha
Member
Businesses don't have the same rights as people. The government has oversight on all kinds of stuff like this, because there has to be a balance between a business' desires and the community's desires. Ever heard of zoning? Ever seen an upscale area where fast food places and the like can't have large/elevated signs?
Nope, just a bright pink porno shop.
I want to open burger joint in some state and can't because I have made donations for pro-gay organizations, thus I have been deemed by the mayor to be anti-christian. Is my free speech being violated?
I'll get there. Answer my question first.
That Singer Guy...
Member
I'll still be eating there unless somebody makes better waffle fries. I don't see whats wrong to be honest, they're a christian owned business thats not gonna change who they are for anybody. They get my props for not bowing to anybody, the same way atheist get props from me for having their own beliefs.
I was ready to make this analogy. What happens when an Athiest Lib is banned from doing business in Moses, Alabama? It's a creepy precedent even if they're going against total assholes.
That isn't what I was saying. If the owner of the business has a view the mayor doesn't like and the business permit is refused by that reason it is a violation of rights. Quit trying to make this more complicated, it's obvious as day that is what the letter said and what my comments entail.
Next to the museum no.. but would you be ok if the porn shop wasnt allowed within a 10 mile radius of the museum?
Why is it ok for it not to be next to the museum?
Do racist people get props for not bowing to anybody?
Daydream Sequence
Banned
Mayor is doing what he feels is in the best interest of his city. That's part of his job. If the people hate his decision-making, they'll vote him out of office. My guess is that the people of Boston/Chicago are applauding the decision to not allow these bigots to build any more restaurants in their city.
LaserBuddha
Member
Oh yes it is quite simple. This isn't one person's views. This is the operating principles of a company and something they funnel the community's money into.
If you're applying as a person, sole proprietor, you might have a case. As a corporation, not so much.
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