Support NeoGAF

[V_Arnold]

Thanks for the answers. No, I will not touch an Asura. They freak me out. The last time I was actually able to enjoy tiny characters in an MMO was when Goblins came out, and that was because Blizzard is very proficient at doing awesome animations. (Also, it was great seeing the Succubus being bigger than myself!)

 

[Kos Luftar]

Playing through faction campaign for HoM stuff atm. So painful. Question. Will GW2 have any vertical progression at max level or will it be completely horizontal?

At some point. This was posted on the ARENA NET blog.

 

[Arksy]

As I said, I wanted to know if there would be any vertical progression AT max level. For example in all other MMOs an active max level character fully decked out in gear is going to decimate someone who just turned max level. In GW2, it seems that any level 80 with vendor gear is going to be just as good as any other max level. What progression will be there apart from skins? Why bother crafting weapons if they're no different to vendor gear?

 

[Kos Luftar]

As I said, I wanted to know if there would be any vertical progression AT max level. For example in all other MMOs an active max level character fully decked out in gear is going to decimate someone who just turned max level. In GW2, it seems that any level 80 with vendor gear is going to be just as good as any other max level. What progression will be there apart from skins? Why bother crafting weapons if they're no different to vendor gear?

Purely for looks.

 

[BrettWeir]

As I said, I wanted to know if there would be any vertical progression AT max level. For example in all other MMOs an active max level character fully decked out in gear is going to decimate someone who just turned max level. In GW2, it seems that any level 80 with vendor gear is going to be just as good as any other max level. What progression will be there apart from skins? Why bother crafting weapons if they're no different to vendor gear?

What good? Aesthetics. It's going to all be about player skill, not loot.

 

[Vinci]

Getting stuff to make others envious, like the Day-Night Greatsword. And then, of course there's PVP. Beyond that? We don't know.

 

[Arksy]

That pretty much means that all the pve content will be accessible to everyone day 1. I'm not sure this is a good thing if there are ZERO barriers of entry into difficult dungeons. How are you going to improve your character beyond level 80?

 

[BrettWeir]

Getting stuff to make others envious, like the Day-Night Greatsword. And then, of course there's PVP. Beyond that? We don't know.

Ahhhhhh! Avatar changes screwing me up on who is posting!

The day-night items are awesome. I can't wait to see what armor/weapons they come up with in the future.

 

[Piecake]

That pretty much means that all the pve content will be accessible to everyone day 1. I'm not sure this is a good thing if there are ZERO barriers of entry into difficult dungeons. How are you going to improve your character beyond level 80?

You dont scale up. You only scale down. You improve your character by looking cooler and improving your skill

 

[Vinci]

That pretty much means that all the pve content will be accessible to everyone day 1. I'm not sure this is a good thing if there are ZERO barriers of entry into difficult dungeons. How are you going to improve your character beyond level 80?

You still have to level to get to the PVE stuff. A level 2 can't walk into Orr and survive. All content is available to level 80s, not to everyone.

 

[Arksy]

Oh well. I just hope the content isn't easy and is actually really difficult.

 

[Kem0sabe]

Skill points are the incentive, the more skill points and trait points you have, the better "equipped" you will be to handle PVP and PVE, so that is the carrot that will lead you to explore and complete all the content, be it on a "low" or "high" level zone.

Oh well. I just hope the content isn't easy and is actually really difficult.

Messing around the world map will always be easy, unless you end up somewhere with high respawn rates or where the mobs are at the tail end of the level range for that zone for your level.

But difficulty can come in many shapes, the jumping puzzles to try and get 100% map completion with the rewards that entails, the events that are sometimes hard to complete due to lack of players or very high HP boss mobs.

I can´t remember a single mmo that had truly difficult solo quest content.

 

[Kos Luftar]

Oh well. I just hope the content isn't easy and is actually really difficult.

Did you get a chance to play in the BETAs?

 

[Vinci]

Oh well. I just hope the content isn't easy and is actually really difficult.

Let's put it this way... ANET softened up the content between levels 1-10 because people were rampantly complaining about how hard the game was. The fact that the game scales you in order to keep you from coming back to a lower-level zone and turning it into a cake-walk is another way of retaining difficulty across zones even once you've hit 80.

 

[NoLootBoxDev]

there is a new update for the client, around 10k files.Just in case for people with slow connection like me.

 

[Arksy]

Let's put it this way... ANET softened up the content between levels 1-10 because people were rampantly complaining about how hard the game was. The fact that the game scales you in order to keep you from coming back to a lower-level zone and turning it into a cake-walk is another way of retaining difficulty across zones even once you've hit 80.

The fact that ANet nerfed the good level of difficulty of the game thanks to complaints is also VERY worrying. I fear it's going to go down the WoW path of getting really damn easy.

 

[Vinci]

The fact that ANet nerfed the good level of difficulty of the game thanks to complaints is also VERY worrying. I fear it's going to go down the WoW path of getting really damn easy.

No, it was because the game is different enough from WoW that people didn't have time to figure out how to play before getting hit with crazy shit like Confusion. They just moved some of those more complicated conditions back beyond level 10.

You're worrying too much.

 

[Arksy]

You're worrying too much.

I know I know. I'm just sick of failed second rate MMOs and really really want this one to succeed. I want this to go the long haul and I don't mean the long haul that SWTOR developers were talking about which seems like it never came to fruition.

 

[Klyka]

I know I know. I'm just sick of failed second rate MMOs and really really want this one to succeed. I want this to go the long haul and I don't mean the long haul that SWTOR developers were talking about which seems like it never came to fruition.

It's not fun to be a newbie who hasn't read up on GW2 at all and go into the first zone as a level 1, levle up to 3 and then suddenly get your ASS handed to you by mobs using all kinds of skills/dodges etc...

People don't know this stuff from WoW and co.

My one friend got brutalized by lvl 4 mobs over and over in BWE1 because he just couldn't properly learn his class without going back to lvl 1 monsters.

Arena.net nerfing the 1-10 range was a good step forward.
There are 80 levels, using 1/8 or even 2/8 of them to ease the player into the game is not in any way a bad thing.

 

[Boogdud]

The fact that ANet nerfed the good level of difficulty of the game thanks to complaints is also VERY worrying. I fear it's going to go down the WoW path of getting really damn easy.

Anyone that tried to beat the charr shaman at level ~5 with twenty or thirty people, knows, the game was not at a good level of difficulty. Some of the stuff was tuned really badly in the first couple bwes. Maybe they went too far the other way, but some of that stuff was literally impossible with the right number of people.

 

[gunbo13]

G600 looks like a mess to me for GW2. You are just changing your overuse to your control side that is more dependent on precision. And GW2 does require such mouse movement for aiming AoE, targeting, etc... People may say you can "adjust" but you are going to hit a wall. It's better to overload your keyboard controls since they don't require the same amount of precision. You can mash, double tap numbers for quick AoE, etc... without affecting your mouse precision. Double tapping with a reach on some numeric side mouse button is doing to whack you out if you are multi-tasking a follow-up with the mouse on a small pixel range. I really also think that it is better to overload your control side which requires less emphasis on XYZ. Depth especially is a control area which always requires a lot of processing and to add rapid presses to that control side? Seems like a bad idea IMO.

I scooped up my G700 a few weeks ago and will use one side mouse tied to a high priority skill slot and middle click for my heal. That's a fair balance. A mouse like the G600 is better suited for a slower paced MMO. I feel like I'll gobble up most of the G600 players in PvP. PvE/WvW should be less an issue.

 

[BattleMonkey]

At some point. This was posted on the ARENA NET blog.

Unless they change leveling alot for launch, the graph is a lie. Each level takes more time than the last one. The rate of leveling is not bad, but it is not flat at all

 

[Vinci]

Unless they change leveling alot for launch, the graph is a lie. Each level takes more time than the last one. The rate of leveling is not bad, but it is not flat at all

The one I see is more of a plateau, with it going up gradually for a bit before leveling off. *shrugs* I never had a problem with leveling so I'm not too concerned.

 

[chiablo]

Unless they change leveling alot for launch, the graph is a lie. Each level takes more time than the last one. The rate of leveling is not bad, but it is not flat at all

Well, to be fair, if I got to level 10, then decided to spend 8 hours completing a jumping puzzle, then the graph would have a sudden spike there.

 

[Kem0sabe]

Unless they change leveling alot for launch, the graph is a lie. Each level takes more time than the last one. The rate of leveling is not bad, but it is not flat at all

Didnt play enough to make an informed opinion on the leveling curve, but i remember reading somewhere that the amount of time for a player to level up should never exceed 90 minutes from 1-80.

 

[Retne]

G600 looks like a mess to me for GW2. You are just changing your overuse to your control side that is more dependent on precision. And GW2 does require such mouse movement for aiming AoE, targeting, etc... People may say you can "adjust" but you are going to hit a wall. It's better to overload your keyboard controls since they don't require the same amount of precision. You can mash, double tap numbers for quick AoE, etc... without affecting your mouse precision. Double tapping with a reach on some numeric side mouse button is doing to whack you out if you are multi-tasking a follow-up with the mouse on a small pixel range. I really also think that it is better to overload your control side which requires less emphasis on XYZ. Depth especially is a control area which always requires a lot of processing and to add rapid presses to that control side? Seems like a bad idea IMO.

You would think that but it's surprisingly smooth. I can't speak to the G600 but I've used an MMO7 since the first BWE and it's been great. The thumb button layout isn't in a grid pattern though so it makes memorizing the button locations pretty easy.

I haven't had any issues with AoE targeting either. It really isn't any different than clicking the left mouse button or the back/forward buttons on most mice.

 

[BrettWeir]

Unless they change leveling alot for launch, the graph is a lie. Each level takes more time than the last one. The rate of leveling is not bad, but it is not flat at all

I thought that the XP level starts to plateau at a certain level? IE, level 30 - 80 take the same XP per level? So up to level 30, it will increase per level?

Or am I mistaken with this info?

Full of questions this morning!

 

[BattleMonkey]

I thought that the XP level starts to plateau at a certain level? IE, level 30 - 80 take the same XP per level? So up to level 30, it will increase per level?

Or am I mistaken with this info?

Full of questions this morning!

Never got that far (only made it to 20), but then the chart should make notes of such since it's not counting the earlier levels which do not take same amount of time.

 

[Vinci]

Anyone that tried to beat the charr shaman at level ~5 with twenty or thirty people, knows, the game was not at a good level of difficulty. Some of the stuff was tuned really badly in the first couple bwes. Maybe they went too far the other way, but some of that stuff was literally impossible with the right number of people.

The Charr Shaman was still pretty damn tough in BWE3. Bodies everywhere. Fun as hell though.

 

[flyinpiranha]

I know I know. I'm just sick of failed second rate MMOs and really really want this one to succeed. I want this to go the long haul and I don't mean the long haul that SWTOR developers were talking about which seems like it never came to fruition.

Be aware that endgame = PVP for the most part so the "long haul" will be how much you enjoy WvW and sPVP. I imagine expansions and such will do great for mainly PVE players but I think going into this expecting PVE content to be the heart of the endgame is the wrong approach. To me it's almost like the PVE part of the game is there to train you for the PVP aspect.

Anyone that tried to beat the charr shaman at level ~5 with twenty or thirty people, knows, the game was not at a good level of difficulty. Some of the stuff was tuned really badly in the first couple bwes. Maybe they went too far the other way, but some of that stuff was literally impossible with the right number of people.

Is THAT was that problem was? Holy shit that thing decimated us and we had like 20+ people. All it ended up being was melee rezzing every caster that was trying to kill him because we'd get one shot just looking at him funny. Finally took him down after about 10 minutes though.

 

[BrettWeir]

Never got that far (only made it to 20), but then the chart should make notes of such since it's not counting the earlier levels which do not take same amount of time.

Definitely. Would be nice to see a number next to the horizontal line as indication of when it plateaus.

**EDIT
Does anyone have a link to BWE3 Black Lion Trading Company items in the store? I really want to start planning out what I want to buy day 1. I know bank slots, but can't recall what else there is that would be permanent to an account.

 

[Deitus]

Never got that far (only made it to 20), but then the chart should make notes of such since it's not counting the earlier levels which do not take same amount of time.

It was supposed to be a quick mock-up, not a scale diagram. It's illustrating the intention to not have a timesink in the form of exponential exp requirements. The exp per level from 30-80 is determined by ArenaNet to be appropriate and reasonable (I haven't gotten that far so I can only take their word on it), and the levels prior require less exp to ease players into it.

 

[V_Arnold]

Be aware that endgame = PVP for the most part so the "long haul" will be how much you enjoy WvW and sPVP. I imagine expansions and such will do great for mainly PVE players but I think going into this expecting PVE content to be the heart of the endgame is the wrong approach. To me it's almost like the PVE part of the game is there to train you for the PVP aspect.

Hm..if this is true, I am going to be a bit sad. PVP does not interest me too much. But I am not against it either, so we shall see.

 

[Maffis]

Well, seeing as it has no subscriptions, and arenanet's philosophy, you shouldn't expect the game to finally begin at max level. The whole game, from 1-80, will take you several several days, if not weeks, to finish. The game is 1-80, with bonuses at the end. Imagine how much game you get out of it considering it is a one-time fee of 40-60 bucks. The point is, the game is more than just max-level raids *cough WoW*.

 

[gunbo13]

You would think that but it's surprisingly smooth. I can't speak to the G600 but I've used an MMO7 since the first BWE and it's been great. The thumb button layout isn't in a grid pattern though so it makes memorizing the button locations pretty easy.

I haven't had any issues with AoE targeting either. It really isn't any different than clicking the left mouse button or the back/forward buttons on most mice.

I'm still skeptical about fast gameplay. When playing ele, I was mashing swap/cast keys basically without stopping. And during this, I have to throw my mouse around for targeting and AoE. Maintaining proper movement during this was the most difficult part (had to be creative). I just can't even imagine somebody doing that if all the activity is moved to the mouse, unless they are going 1/2 speed. Like I'm not even hating on the use of the mouse; it just doesn't seem plausible at that pace.

 

[Vinci]

Hm..if this is true, I am going to be a bit sad. PVP does not interest me too much. But I am not against it either, so we shall see.

I think that's an exaggeration. If you factor in the explorable dungeon modes and how much combat shifts based in different professions and builds being together, the variability should keep PVE folks busy for a while.

Yes, PVP is a major factor in the game. But PVE is pretty deep as well.

 

[BattleMonkey]

Hm..if this is true, I am going to be a bit sad. PVP does not interest me too much. But I am not against it either, so we shall see.

You have stuff you can do to earn unique gear when you max level, which basically involves your usual grinds of repeating old content, but there is not meant to be a major endgame grind, so PVP is a huge focus for GW. Otherwise exploring the rest of the world to experience all the game has and or starting alts to try different play styles.

 

[Klyka]

Hm..if this is true, I am going to be a bit sad. PVP does not interest me too much. But I am not against it either, so we shall see.

You are using the WoW/traditional MMO mentality.
This is not like the above. It's a normal game you buy once and then play however you want.
It's not a job, nor an obligation.
If you finish all the content that interests you and nothing is left, you just stop playing.
You'll have gotten hundreds of hours out of it for 60$.

 

[Kem0sabe]

The world is huge, considering every zone is a viable progression zone due to the down-scaling and the way skill points work.

I doubt i will be able to explore it all before an expansion hits.

 

[Retne]

I'm still skeptical about fast gameplay. When playing ele, I was mashing swap/cast keys basically without stopping. And during this, I have to throw my mouse around for targeting and AoE. Maintaining proper movement during this was the most difficult part (had to be creative). I just can't even imagine somebody doing that if all the activity is moved to the mouse, unless they are going 1/2 speed. Like I'm not even hating on the use of the mouse; it just doesn't seem plausible at that pace.

During the BWEs I was mostly running with a strike team in WvW as an AoE necro and it wasn't that hard. It's all about being comfortable with the bindings and gear you're using though. I got comfortable with this mouse by binding a lot of web browsing stuff into the thumb buttons and I'm at the point where I miss this mouse a great deal at work.

All it takes is a little time to acclimate to using thumb buttons. It just feels so much smoother to always be moving and never having to remove your left hand from WASD in battle.

 

[BrettWeir]

Hm..if this is true, I am going to be a bit sad. PVP does not interest me too much. But I am not against it either, so we shall see.

Also, remember that there is down-leveling, so you can go back to any previous areas, be the correct scale to level, and do things you had not done before. It will take a LONG time to go through each zone and do all that there is to do.

On top of that, ANet has indicated that they can add things at any time they want, giving players even more content. They will have quite the "live team" once the game is released just for things like this.

 

[Deitus]

Be aware that endgame = PVP for the most part so the "long haul" will be how much you enjoy WvW and sPVP. I imagine expansions and such will do great for mainly PVE players but I think going into this expecting PVE content to be the heart of the endgame is the wrong approach. To me it's almost like the PVE part of the game is there to train you for the PVP aspect.

I disagree. I think looking at any part of this game as endgame is a bad way to look at it. I you want to play PVP you can do that from the very start. Well, I'd wait until 7 or so to do WvW, and even then you will have a slight disadvantage over higher level players, but sPVP puts you on equal ground from level 1. If anything, someone who uses PVE as training for PVP will be at a disadvantage compared to someone who spent the same amount of time training in PVP (since the same tactics usually don't apply).

For PVE players there is no shortage of content. I've spent probably more than 80 hours in this game so far and I've barely seen outside the starting zones, or even fully explored the ones I've been to (I leveled multiple characters, so none got very high). Because you don't outlevel content, and because they can continue to add content, there will be no shortage off stuff to do. There won't be a traditional end game grind, so you won't be occupied 40 hours a week for years to come, but who wants that? I don't.

Of course the true fun is doing PVE and WvW, with a little sPVP mixed in.

 

[Kem0sabe]

Of course the true fun is doing PVE and WvW, with a little sPVP mixed in.

I´m actually pretty excited about rolling into WvW as a ranger, i guess ranged always has an advantage over melee in these kinds of environments.

 

[Klyka]

I´m actually pretty excited about rolling into WvW as a ranger, i guess ranged always has an advantage over melee in these kinds of environments.

*uses shadowstep*
I am now right next to you shanking you for superior melee damage.

I love this game way too much.

 

[Vano]

For PvE you have 8 dungeons, each one with 1 story mode and 3 explorable modes, so you have lot of PvE content to do. Just choose the dungeon, do Explorable mode for the Dungeon sets and other stuff + challenge. Also it helps that Explorable mode are hard.

And i suppose they will keep adding Dungeons + the Dynamic Events so i don't think the PvE content is lacking. Saying that GW2 don't have "endgame" just because you don't have raids to do at lv80 is wrong.

 

[gunbo13]

People who don't like PvP need to learn to like it! J/K but don't be timid. Some people have an apprehension to the learning curve, player attitudes, etc... But GW games including GW2 are just not complete without modes like PvP/WvW. WvW should be more then friendly since it is very much rooted in a PvE objective type structure. You even have those instances on the maps. It's basically PvE with the human element instead of AI, which is ALWAYS a bazillion times better.

PvP though does turns things on their heads much like FPS MP modes. I can understand the barrier there since PvE fans might just only like that style. But I see WvW having a pretty easy transition for PvE fans especially if you work with others. Then once you realize that you want to not deal with PUGs, you can step your game up to play the best players in PvP. Nothing is better then winning out playing with the really good PvP players against the really good PvP players. In GW1 at least, ONE bad cast by one team member could lose the match. Shit was intense. In GW2 high level play, it will be more like one decision, strat call, etc... can lose the match. But that doesn't make it less intense, just different.

The game is full fuck with adventure so be adventurous with what you play. Not preachin, just sayin.

During the BWEs I was mostly running with a strike team in WvW as an AoE necro and it wasn't that hard. It's all about being comfortable with the bindings and gear you're using though. I got comfortable with this mouse by binding a lot of web browsing stuff into the thumb buttons and I'm at the point where I miss this mouse a great deal at work.

All it takes is a little time to acclimate to using thumb buttons. It just feels so much smoother to always be moving and never having to remove your left hand from WASD in battle.

I challenge you to a dual kind sir! Eles at dawn.

I trust what your saying and based on your description, it is probably negligible regarding loss/gain. I guess it depends on what mode or character you play. I'll probably be forever skeptical on twitch speed regarding that control scheme though. The guy who I was talking to about that pad thing seemed to have a better case.

 

[BattleMonkey]

*uses shadowstep*
I am now right next to you shanking you for superior melee damage.

I love this game way too much.

And dying as the rest of the horde murders the thief suddeny amongst their ranks.

 

[commish]

Man I put so many hours into the beta... I've just lost interest in the game, even though I've paid for it already. Maybe the release will re-energize me. Or maybe my interest in MMOs is gone after I realized GW2 is, at its core, more of the same :\

 

[BattleMonkey]

Man I put so many hours into the beta... I've just lost interest in the game, even though I've paid for it already. Maybe the release will re-energize me. Or maybe my interest in MMOs is gone after I realized GW2 is, at its core, more of the same :\

Get this man some kool aide!

 

[Vinci]

And dying as the rest of the horde murders the thief suddeny amongst their ranks.

Agreed.

Better to use Scorpion Wire and pull the Ranger to your horde, Klyka.

EDIT: I just know I'm going to buy three additional slots so I can have one of every profession. Fuck.