Dating-Age |OT3| Positivity, Confidence, and Not Being a "Nice" Guy

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Jackben said:
Nah dude, if you have been reading his posts from the beginning he was very clear with his intentions from and very clearly communicated how he was feeling and what he was doing. She contradicted herself severely between saying "you dont have to ask for permission every time" to somehow trying to guilt-trip him saying he doesn't just get to "pop" her and abuse her whenever he wants.

That's total bullshit. I don't care what her motivations were, whether it came from being in abusive past relationships or if it was because she was simply sexually frustrated, it's not an appropriate or an adult way to communicate at all.

Furthermore, he had to get to work, how is that pushing her away? I can understand trying to rationalize her actions but she was very clearly in the wrong here.This is pretty narrow-minded and stupid, dare I say even sexist. Guys are allowed to escalate or slow down sexual encounters just as much as women are.

"This girl invited me over to 'watch a movie' but then she didn't want to do anything more than make-out. That's bullshit"

See how dumb that sounds when you put it in the other perspective?
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1. It's a game. Sorry. The fact that she was so aggressive makes that clear. She didn't want him to have to ask every single time but she didn't want him to just leave either. It's the equivalent of a dude cumming and then getting off the bed, looking at the girl and saying 'kthxbye!'. He didn't cum, he didn't have sex with her, but the feeling she received was exactly that.

2. He had to go to work but he did so (according to his post) after she put all of the work in, threw her self at him, he gets aroused, doesn't reciprocate, and then says, 'Sorry but i gotta go'.
 
ClovingWestbrook said:
1. It's a game. Sorry. The fact that she was so aggressive makes that clear. She didn't want him to have to ask every single time but she didn't want him to just leave either. It's the equivalent of a dude cumming and then getting off the bed, looking at the girl and saying 'kthxbye!'. He didn't cum, he didn't have sex with her, but the feeling she received was exactly that.

2. He had to go to work but he did so (according to his post) after she put all of the work in, threw her self at him, he gets aroused, doesn't reciprocate, and then says, 'Sorry but i gotta go'.
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Yup. Sex or not, she was left feeling used and that's why she reacted the way she did.
 
Crushdance.

Dude, this women may have some issues you really don't need to be involved with. At the very least she has a healthy does of the BSC.

Next time you hang out make sure its not in a bedroom, but someplace yall can talk. And do it rather soon. If this slips away from you, she will make up her mind, close up shop, and it will all be over.

(Though I would consider bailing the eff out).

As for guys not wanting the sex thing. Yes, you are going to run into some moderate to severe issues with this. I know, its strange but true. Almost all women struggle with confidence issues. (Us men fail in comparison with women in this regard). Society and for the most part nature has programed women to think "men always want sex." (And honestly, probably a good rule of thumb to follow).

For a guy to then say no for whatever reason...You take a huge shot to their confidence. They feel unwanted, Unsexy, Less like a women. Once you do this, the relationship is over.

(Im not saying this is her, but in general. I think your girl has other things going on).
 
I just don't understand in what world not wanting to have sex on the second date is selfish for either gender especially when he was clear about what he wanted from the beginning. If she really did freak out from feeling sexually frustrated it would probably have been better to just talk about it or put herself in check. Is really wanting to have sex and feeling denied momentarily really worth being insulting and making someone else feel like shit?
 
Jackben said:
I just don't understand in what world not wanting to have sex on the second date is selfish for either gender especially when he was clear about what he wanted from the beginning. If she really did freak out from feeling sexually frustrated it would probably have been better to just talk about it or put herself in check. Is really wanting to have sex and feeling denied momentarily really worth being insulting and making someone else feel like shit?
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In what world do you live where women are perfectly rational well-behaved robots?
 
Jackben said:
I just don't understand in what world not wanting to have sex on the second date is selfish for either gender especially when he was clear about what he wanted from the beginning. If she really did freak out from feeling sexually frustrated it would probably have been better to just talk about it or put herself in check. Is really wanting to have sex and feeling denied momentarily really worth being insulting and making someone else feel like shit?
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It's not about not WANTING to have sex. It's about putting yourself in a position where one person is crazily aroused, throwing her/himself out there, and then you basically get up and walk out. Nobody is saying he had to have sex with her but its HOW he handled the situation that make her feel rejected and like crap.
 
Uncompromisable said:
In what world do you live where women are perfectly rational well-behaved robots?
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No one is asking her to be a perfectly rational well-behaved robot, but freaking out, insulting him and making him feel like shit on the SECOND DATE isn't a trait most would look for in a partner. That's why most are advising he move on. It's fine to try and rationalize what was going through her head, but in no way was what she did appropriate or okay, nor should CrushDance feel like less of a man or guilty about being honest and upfront with his actions.
 
Jackben said:
No one is asking her to be a perfectly rational well-behaved robot, but freaking out, insulting him and making him feel like shit on the SECOND DATE isn't a trait most would look for in a partner. That's why most are advising he move on. It's fine to try and rationalize what was going through her head, but in no way was what she did appropriate or okay, nor should CrushDance feel like less of a man or guilty about being honest and upfront with his actions.
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Oh, he should definitely move on but don't think for a second that this same thing will not happen with another woman. He rejected her. Rejection isn't handled well by most people, male and female alike.
 
Jackben said:
No one is asking her to be a perfectly rational well-behaved robot, but freaking out, insulting him and making him feel like shit on the SECOND DATE isn't a trait most would look for in a partner. That's why most are advising he move on. It's fine to try and rationalize what was going through her head, but in no way was what she did appropriate or okay, nor should CrushDance feel like less of a man or guilty about being honest and upfront with his actions.
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I agree with you.

That coupled with the fact that she could have some more severe issues underneath the hood are RED FLAGS.
 
ClovingWestbrook said:
Oh, he should definitely move on but don't think for a second that this same thing will not happen with another woman. He rejected her. Rejection isn't handled well by most people, male and female alike.
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I see what you are saying, but come on.,...Its not like this was some torrid, wearing nothing but the birthday suit, right there at heaven's gate, and then backing off.

They had a hot make out, kept going for two hours, nothing was too out of control, and then he had to go to work.

That is NOT egregious.
 
ClovingWestbrook said:
It's not about not WANTING to have sex. It's about putting yourself in a position where one person is crazily aroused, throwing her/himself out there, and then you basically get up and walk out. Nobody is saying he had to have sex with her but its HOW he handled the situation that make her feel rejected and like crap.
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Which is why I say it's just way easier to have sex with her in that situation rather than try to rationally explain why he can't have sex with her in a convincing and non-insulting way which makes both parties look good. Actions speak way fucking louder than words in this case.
 
Tex117 said:
I see what you are saying, but come on.,...Its not like this was some torrid, wearing nothing but the birthday suit, right there at heaven's gate, and then backing off.

They had a hot make out, kept going for two hours, nothing was too out of control, and then he had to go to work.

That is NOT egregious.
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Two hours... she is basically THROWING herself at him in almost every single possible way. Biting him, scratching him, basically role playing Dom/Sub. Sorry, this was no simple 'make out' session.
 
I don't even know what the fuck I just read. All that I can do is wish you luck, man. Luck, and good communication. Personally, I'd bail the fuck out.
 
Uncompromisable said:
Which is why I say it's just way easier to have sex with her in that situation rather than try to rationally explain why he can't have sex with her in a convincing and non-insulting way which makes both parties look good. Actions speak way fucking louder than words in this case.
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Oh come on. If he's not ready, he's not ready. Guys can 'not be ready', just like girls can.

Only thing Crush possibly did wrong was not slow her down enough at the start.
 
ClovingWestbrook said:
It's not about not WANTING to have sex. It's about putting yourself in a position where one person is crazily aroused, throwing her/himself out there, and then you basically get up and walk out. Nobody is saying he had to have sex with her but its HOW he handled the situation that make her feel rejected and like crap.
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ClovingWestbrook, I think this is something we can all agree with... I more have issue with Uncompromisable's opinion that, "men, who does not want to have sex, cannot be trusted".

I'm sorry, but I'm not going to f anything that moves. I rather have sex with someone I love than someone meaningless to me. I have absolutely no problem turning down a beautiful woman in a hypothetical situation where one approaches me out of the blue for sex. I just don't see the world in that way. Other people may, and that's fine for them.

I'm not even talking about being intimate. I have no problem being intimate and satisfying a woman sans sex, but again it has to be someone I care about. Someone I'm dating. Not just some random girl, no matter how beautiful. And before anyone asks, it has worked out quite well for me in the past and current relationships.
 
ClovingWestbrook said:
Two hours... she is basically THROWING herself at him in almost every single possible way. Biting him, scratching him, basically role playing Dom/Sub. Sorry, this was no simple 'make out' session.
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Perhaps not, but everything was still in the cage.

That coupled with how she responded...
 
Antagon said:
Oh come on. If he's not ready, he's not ready. Guys can 'not be ready', just like girls can.

Only thing Crush possibly did wrong was not slow her down enough at the start.
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He handled the situation wrong by letting it get to the point it did. Again, don't have her watch a movie in your room. If she is scratching, biting, stop it THERE. Don't have a 2 HOUR MAKE OUT SESSION where she is getting EXTREMELY aroused and then not even help HER get off. He could have said, 'I'm not reading to have sex yet BUT I really want to make you cum'. He didn't, she felt rejected and EMPTY.
 
ClovingWestbrook said:
He handled the situation wrong by letting it get to the point it did. Again, don't have her watch a movie in your room. If she is scratching, biting, stop it THERE. Don't have a 2 HOUR MAKE OUT SESSION where she is getting EXTREMELY aroused and then not even help HER get off. He could have said, 'I'm not reading to have sex yet BUT I really want to make you cum'. He didn't, she felt rejected and EMPTY.
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agreed
 
ClovingWestbrook said:
He handled the situation wrong by letting it get to the point it did. Again, don't have her watch a movie in your room. If she is scratching, biting, stop it THERE. Don't have a 2 HOUR MAKE OUT SESSION where she is getting EXTREMELY aroused and then not even help HER get off. He could have said, 'I'm not reading to have sex yet BUT I really want to make you cum'. He didn't, she felt rejected and EMPTY.
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Im certainly not saying that he handled the situation correctly. (This is all assuming that she doesn't have serious underlying issues....due to her response).

But to say this is all on him, is not far.

Also remember, this dude claims this was his first kiss (or something like that...correct?)...All that "scratching" and "biting" could have been just some nails in the skin and a little nibble...Big difference.

Though I see your point, and I don't necesarrily DIS-agree with you, IMO it is unfair to throw him under the bus and say he should have got her off when the clothes remained on.

He didn't handle it in a very graceful way, and she didn't either. Bad situation.
 
ClovingWestbrook said:
He handled the situation wrong by letting it get to the point it did. Again, don't have her watch a movie in your room. If she is scratching, biting, stop it THERE. Don't have a 2 HOUR MAKE OUT SESSION where she is getting EXTREMELY aroused and then not even help HER get off. He could have said, 'I'm not reading to have sex yet BUT I really want to make you cum'. He didn't, she felt rejected and EMPTY.
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A couple of weeks back I spend an entire night in bec with a girl practically doing that, without finishing each other off, as she wasn't ready. But I guess she was obligated to do that? Fuck off.
 
Sarye said:
ClovingWestbrook, I think this is something we can all agree with... I more have issue with Uncompromisable's opinion that, "men, who does not want to have sex, cannot be trusted".

I'm sorry, but I'm not going to f anything that moves. I rather have sex with someone I love than someone meaningless to me. I have absolutely no problem turning down a beautiful woman in a hypothetical situation where one approaches me out of the blue for sex. I just don't see the world in that way. Other people may, and that's fine for them.

I'm not even talking about being intimate. I have no problem being intimate and satisfying a woman sans sex, but again it has to be someone I care about. Someone I'm dating. Not just some random girl, no matter how beautiful. And before anyone asks, it has worked out quite well for me in the past and current relationships.
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A man that wants sex =/= a man that has no standards. Precisely for that reason, not having sex with her pointed her to believe that she was below his standards.

I understand you want to get to know a woman before sleeping with her. Crushdance's girl obviously felt close enough to him to be ready to have sex, him refusing her thinking it's "too soon" makes her feel like what? Like a slut cause she's the one that can't wait now. Women hate that, just saying.
 
Antagon said:
A couple of weeks back I spend an entire night in bec with a girl practically doing that, without finishing each other off, as she wasn't ready. But I guess she was obligated to do that? Fuck off.
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COMMUNICATION BITCHES IT'S BEST TO HAVE IT UP FRONT.

She had a perception about what was going to happen, and so did he. They did not match up. If he's uncomfortable getting blue balls, then he needs to be up front about that, and if she wants to use him as a hot and heavy "almost," then she needs to say that shit outright.

In your situation, there was a mutual understanding, in his, there was not. And there needs to be in the future. Lesson learned, and I hope it's a lesson learned by both parties after they talk about it.
 
I agree with the others. You rejected her, then forced her to tell you why she felt sad.

Men can handle rejection better than women. Why? Because we get rejected all the time. But for a woman it is a rarer experience, especially if she is attractive.

Rule of thumb: if you don't want sex, don't invite her into the bedroom. It gives the wrong signals if you invite her into your room and don't have sex. Not only that, make her do all the work, then just get up and leave.
 
Omegasquash said:
COMMUNICATION BITCHES IT'S BEST TO HAVE IT UP FRONT.

She had a perception about what was going to happen, and so did he. They did not match up. If he's uncomfortable getting blue balls, then he needs to be up front about that, and if she wants to use him as a hot and heavy "almost," then she needs to say that shit outright.

In your situation, there was a mutual understanding, in his, there was not. And there needs to be in the future. Lesson learned, and I hope it's a lesson learned by both parties after they talk about it.
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And this is how this message will be perceived by some women:


Hello, name is Romeo, I need to know that you are the one before we sleep together. I will not sully myself with your ilk if I find out that you are not a true lady. Do not tempt me as you will be refuted like the wench that you likely are.
 
SlipperySlope said:
Men can handle rejection better than women. Why? Because we get rejected all the time. But for a woman it is a rarer experience, especially if she is attractive.
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I can agree with this. Girl still freaked out and was extremely rude which is bad form and doesn't bode well for future relations. That's all I'm trying to say.
 
All of us are sure being presumptious.

We have NO idea what this women wanted.

(This could be a troll..it all adds to ambiguity and opposed views so well).
 
Uncompromisable said:
And this is how this message will be perceived by some women:


Hello, name is Romeo, I need to know that you are the one before we sleep together. I was not sully myself with your ilk if I find out that you are not a true lady. Do not tempt me as you will be refuted like the wench that you likely are.
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I should clarify...up front being before a situation gets heavy and you know intentions, not before you buy her dinner. And a little common sense always comes in handy too. When clothes start to come off and there's heavy touching with nails and teeth and whatnot, if you're unsure, stop the situation and get sure. No one likes a good session getting fucked up (no pun intended), but no one wants to have the end result that we're reading about either.
 
Antagon said:
A couple of weeks back I spend an entire night in bec with a girl practically doing that, without finishing each other off, as she wasn't ready. But I guess she was obligated to do that? Fuck off.
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How well did you know the woman? Had you been with her before that in any sexual capacity? How well do you know each other?
 
CrushDance said:
I straight up said: "What did I do wrong?". And this is the point where I went from guilt to guilt bordering on anger: "It..it's just that when I do something to you. It's because...I want too. But the way you touched me at times, I felt as if you were trying to take advantage of me."
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What she said actually makes sense lol.

She wasn't thinking, she was just in tune with her desires and acting on instinct. You on the other hand were very deliberate and thinking about every move and every touch. You weren't just doing what you instinctually wanted to do and thus being fake. Hence her feeling uncomfortable with how you touched her. Even if your thought is that you want to hold back and do less, it may be right, but it's not natural.
 
I am just going to say this Crush,

You need to change your perception and view of women. To look at a woman who you find attractive on the street isn't MISTREATING them. Women aren't these goddess that need to be treated like delicate nuclear weapons. This is one reason why you acted the way you did in the bedroom. Women want sex just like men do. Women are sexual creatures. You don't need to think about every single thing you're going to do with a woman. Be natural. Don't treat her as if she isn't really sure what she is doing.
 
Bucket-o-roadkill said:
I was wondering this myself.. I've had more relationships with girls who I work with and get to know that way, rather than the traditional sense of 'talking over a candle lit dinner' or something..

I have another date lined up for tomorrow night with a different girl, watching fireworks. Hopefully number 8 will be a different story. Lol
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Well date 8 didnt even happen, I've been cancelled.. Better than being stood up though, so that's lucky. I'd have been absolutely fuming. Can't we make a forever alone gaf instead? I don't belong in this thread, haha
 
CRUSH quit putting the pussy on a f*ckin pedestal.

you should have just banged her. why do people always over think these things, personal boundaries, moral standoffs, ugh it makes things so complicated!

when a girl jumps my bones and starts biting my neck, oh thats it then. cuffs are off and the f*ckfest begins! NEXT TIME CRUSH JUST SCREW HER.

to update my situation btw: this new girl that was in a bit of an awkward situation with me and my friend. i've screwed her several times and have started seeing her now. she's met the parents and everything, and my friend is completely cool with it.

oh and the batshit mental ex-gf keeps messaging me on fb saying she still cares for me and all this crap. wish she'd leave me alone and stop giving me grief. COMPLETELY OVER HER NOW.

life is good at the minute.
 
Smelly Tramp said:
CRUSH quit putting the pussy on a f*ckin pedestal.

you should have just banged her. why do people always over think these things, personal boundaries, moral standoffs, ugh it makes things so complicated!

when a girl jumps my bones and starts biting my neck, oh thats it then. cuffs are off and the f*ckfest begins! NEXT TIME CRUSH JUST SCREW HER.

to update my situation btw: this new girl that was in a bit of an awkward situation with me and my friend. i've screwed her several times and have started seeing her now. she's met the parents and everything, and my friend is completely cool with it.

oh and the batshit mental ex-gf keeps messaging me on fb saying she still cares for me and all this crap. wish she'd leave me alone and stop giving me grief. COMPLETELY OVER HER NOW.

life is good at the minute.
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Well, again, the problem isn't that he didn't have sex with her, the problem is he put himself in a situation where sex was going to be a very big possibility. The fact that he doesn't realize this is an issue in of itself.
 
Smelly Tramp said:
CRUSH quit putting the pussy on a f*ckin pedestal.

you should have just banged her. why do people always over think these things, personal boundaries, moral standoffs, ugh it makes things so complicated!

when a girl jumps my bones and starts biting my neck, oh thats it then. cuffs are off and the f*ckfest begins! NEXT TIME CRUSH JUST SCREW HER.

to update my situation btw: this new girl that was in a bit of an awkward situation with me and my friend. i've screwed her several times and have started seeing her now. she's met the parents and everything, and my friend is completely cool with it.

oh and the batshit mental ex-gf keeps messaging me on fb saying she still cares for me and all this crap. wish she'd leave me alone and stop giving me grief. COMPLETELY OVER HER NOW.

life is good at the minute.
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Crush don't take advice from this guy, there's a reason he's here.
 
Smelly Tramp said:
CRUSH quit putting the pussy on a f*ckin pedestal.

you should have just banged her. why do people always over think these things, personal boundaries, moral standoffs, ugh it makes things so complicated!

when a girl jumps my bones and starts biting my neck, oh thats it then. cuffs are off and the f*ckfest begins! NEXT TIME CRUSH JUST SCREW HER.

to update my situation btw: this new girl that was in a bit of an awkward situation with me and my friend. i've screwed her several times and have started seeing her now. she's met the parents and everything, and my friend is completely cool with it.

oh and the batshit mental ex-gf keeps messaging me on fb saying she still cares for me and all this crap. wish she'd leave me alone and stop giving me grief. COMPLETELY OVER HER NOW.

life is good at the minute.
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Thing is, he didn't want to fuck her yet (or at least that's what I get from his post, correct me if I'm wrong Crush) but she overwhelmed him. The guy is a virgin, it isn't strange that he still has to get a bit more comfortable with his sexuality, or that he didn't really knew how to handle it yet. I don't know what you would do if you'd end up dating a girl that's a virgin, but I know that I'd be extra careful not to push her into a situation that she wouldn't be comfortable in.
 
Antagon said:
Was our first date, only talked to her a few times a couple of months before that.
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Are you a virgin? Are you comfortable sexually? Do you see looking at a woman who is attractive as somehow mistreating them?
The reason that I am asking these questions is because if you are comfortable with your sexuality and sex in general, you may be better
at just making out for two hours than Crush. My wife and I can make out for hours too without having to get off but thats because
we know one another. There is a type of trust there that we're not going to just get off for ourselves and leave the other person hanging.

Crush NEEDS to be more aware of how such situations can create tension and a feeling of rejection in the other person.
 
ClovingWestbrook said:
Are you a virgin? Are you comfortable sexually? Do you see looking at a woman who is attractive as somehow mistreating them?
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She's the second girl I've had sex with (on later dates) and the first time was sort of a mistake. While I was pretty comfortable around her, I hadn't really been in a situation remotely similar in years.
 
Antagon said:
She's the second girl I've had sex with (on later dates) and the first time was sort of a mistake. While I was pretty comfortable around her, I hadn't really been in a situation remotely similar in years.
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But it's quite likely that she was able to get a sense that you weren't going to just leave her hanging. Also, its possible that she felt that YOU were into it just as much as she was. I am not sure that Crush conveyed the same type of thing with his girl. If a woman is throwing herself at you and you don't convey that you are into it as much as she is, it can create the feeling of rejection.
 
Ramblin said:
I apologize, that was harsh. But I don't think encouraging him to not think in a situation like that is a wise one.
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Well, actually I think what smelly is saying is correct but in the context of sex itself. The problem isn't that Crush was thinking, the problem is WHEN he is thinking and when he ISN'T thinking.

For example:

Think BEFORE you put yourself in a situation where sex is a very big possibility
Don't think hard DURING sex

Think BEFORE you go on the date
Don't think hard DURING the date
 
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