Dating-Age |OT3| Positivity, Confidence, and Not Being a "Nice" Guy
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Vermillion
Banned
You need clear and explicit consent to engage in intercourse. Lack of a "no" is not a "yes."
Okay fine.
I suppose there's a chance that you'll meet some crazy girl who will regret having sex after and then claim it was rape.
But let's just assume that in that situation things had kept going at the same reasonable (probably slow, even) pace, with her initiating most of the contact (as she did)...if it ended up that they had sex, and he didn't explicitly ask for permission...though she didn't resist in the least (besides playful teasing, like the story). Do you consider that rape? She seems like the type that might say it. But I'd be inclined to laugh in her face if she pulled that card.
Don't think I'd call it rape myself, but at the very least the first time ask. You'd have to stop for a few seconds to grap condoms anyway, perfect time to ask if she's ready.
SquiddyCracker
Banned
Hey, if she ain't stopping you from going bareback she probably wants it!
Jo Shishido's Cheeks
Member
Not necessarily. If I have a girl on my bed and I've undressed her with no form of resistance whatsoever, then that is my consent. To say at that or numerous other similar junctures you should stop and literally ask "I would like to have sex with you now. Is that okay, yes or no?" is ludicrous.
Yeah, I don't know about legality, because people can manipulate the truth too, but as long as she's not on drugs (including alcohol) and doesn't resist, you're fine IMO. Use common sense.
I'm not suggesting guys be all askey or even non-forceful, but this is some serious stuff.
Hell, if you're smart you'll ask her if she has any STDs before you go at it anyways.
Devolution
Member
Disagree. In asking you get confirmation and nothing is lost in the process.
You guys are asking questions that still persist in rape law.
Does a women have to actively give consent either verbally or some how resist?
What if she doesn't resist at all, but says she was too scared to do any resisting?
What exactly is consent? Is consent in her mind or is consent in the mind of the one alleged of the crime? Or is it, would a "reasonable person think she is consenting to sex"?
States do differ on this issue.
Obvioulsy, this is all VERY serious stuff, and one should be very aware of what is going on and never even get close to the line. For everyones sake.
Devolution
Member
This is why I stress enthusiastic consent always. If she gets mad at you that's on her.
ClovingWestbrook
Banned
Unfortunately even with full on consent, there is the possibility she will claim rape and the man will go away for the lie. Now, obviously one should still make sure the other party wants intercourse before anything takes place but at times, when both parties are literally going animalistic style, neither party is concerned with asking. Rather, just playing off the moment and actions of the other person.
Devolution
Member
Still nothing lost when you ask more than you just assume.
Devolution
Member
Considering the rape statistics in the United States it's obvious many men don't ask when they should.
Jo Shishido's Cheeks
Member
Aren't we assuming that verbal consent is the only consent though?
Definitive though it may be, surely there are other means to gauge whether sex is an option than specifically outright asking so?
Definitive though it may be, surely there are other means to gauge whether sex is an option than specifically outright asking so?
Jackben
bitch I'm taking calls.
Yeah. But the girls that would claim that as rape are more of the problem. Attention seekers, really.
Thats just stupid and can ruin the moment.
Each and every single time i had sex with a girl for the first time we start undressing each other. Doesnt this always happen?
SquiddyCracker
Banned
That post only makes sense if the majority of rapes are a result of women falsely claiming rape.
Which isn't the case.
Devolution
Member
Plenty of women consent because they're intimidated and already naked, considering all that's involved here, there is nothing wrong with (and ultimately it's best) making sure she really wants it.
This is stupid. Plain stupid. Since when does being naked qualify as consent to be penetrated? Consent can be withdrawn at any time. This is why you make sure the other person wants it. I have yet to be in a situation where the mood is killed because he's making sure I'm not just going with the flow out of intimidation or fear.
ClovingWestbrook
Banned
So if a woman is literally taking a guys dick out of his pants and putting it inside of herself, he should ask? I see what you're saying, and yes, in the end asking won't necessarily cost anything, but there are certain points where IMO both sides are giving their consent.
Jo Shishido's Cheeks
Member
Well I've been asked exactly one time. Kinda. She said whilst fooling around:
"So are you gonna stick it in me soon?" (classy!)
Other than that there hasn't been a single instance where I've asked or been asked.
No rape claims so far!
Devolution
Member
I'm saying some people don't know enough or care to ask when they should and that's obviously a problem. Pulling the "it would ruin the moment" game is some tired ass bullshit. The statistics alone should tell you that it's better most people ask than assume.
Arjen
Member
Doens't it depend on the situation? I can understand your point if you pick a girl up in a bar, you barely know her, she's drunk you make sure it is what she wants.
But if i've been on a couple of dates, you are comfertable with eachother, you made out before, and then it leads to sex eventually i feel it's a different situation.
Jo Shishido's Cheeks
Member
I agree with you overall but on this specific point, without meaning to belabour said point, surely some type of resistance or hesitation would be experienced on the way to getting naked if the woman was indeed intimidated?
Uncompromisable
Banned
You guys are pretty dumb with your "EXPLICIT CONSENT" stuff. Do you guys bring a consent form along with a witness? Do you know that depending on your state, a woman is allowed to withdraw consent AT ANY POINT after sex has started? A woman can say you raped her under any pretense for any reason she wants. Are you going to live your lives being scared of this? DO YOU NEED FOR HER TO SAY "YES" LOUD ENOUGH FOR THE NEIGHBORS TO HEAR IT? You guys really make me laugh. Take risks in life. I've known guys who've been doing this for years, sometimes really pushing it, and nothing has ever happened to them.
Here's a trick though, if you're really scared.
Whip out your thing next to her face, if she blows you, then you're in business. If not, than everything can stop then and there. You don't need to pull her clothes off, ask permission or anything, it's really "do or die", and it heavily implies consent. I vote for: if she's cooperating, than it's consent.
Here's a trick though, if you're really scared.
Whip out your thing next to her face, if she blows you, then you're in business. If not, than everything can stop then and there. You don't need to pull her clothes off, ask permission or anything, it's really "do or die", and it heavily implies consent. I vote for: if she's cooperating, than it's consent.
You gonna make her sign something? Because any girl who's crazy enough to claim rape in the first scenario is probably crazy enough to just lie about it.
The fact we have to have this conversation is fucked up enough, legal system is just a joke.
Devolution
Member
Some people are simply terrible at gauging situations, body language or even giving a shit unless they're told specifically that they have to get active enthusiastic consent. When Antioch College declared that consent had to be actively given the young men were soured and even said "then I won't get any." Scores of redditers recently came out and talked about raping women in that thread from their side. How many of them just assumed they had it when indeed they did not?
http://feministing.com/2012/08/01/the-wednesday-weigh-in-reddit-rape-thread-edition/
This is the kind of rhetoric that ignores the whole point of consent.
The fact that we have what conversation? The fact that more men should actually engage their partner? I don't need to make a woman sign anything, I am a woman.
SquiddyCracker
Banned
That's one less moron in this thread.
Devolution is wise, she is a woman and a decent representative of womenkind.
Devolution is wise, she is a woman and a decent representative of womenkind.
Jackben
bitch I'm taking calls.
Devolution
Member
I need to reiterate that cooperation out of fear is not consent.
SquiddyCracker
Banned
Yeah, I would advise everyone to ignore that sorta "Be a man, be dominant, if she doesn't want it she'll probably say something, just get in there, son!"-advice.
Whipping out dicks as a test will get you to jail sooner or later.
Devolution
Member
That's the kind of advice that encourages rape really. Who gives a fuck what she thinks if she's not telling me no. Uh she could be scared much worse will happen if she doesn't acquiesce?
So about a month and a half ago I posted that my gf of about a year broke up with me and that we were staying friends with benefits. It worked out alright, but the other day she felt it was time to completely move on and end that as well, for the both of us. Completely understandable, and I thank her for giving me that extra time to enjoy her company.
I had over a month to get used to it but it doesnt hurt any less this time, especially knowing that it's real. We are going to try to be friends down the road after a break, but it hurts. Alot. I don't know what to do anymore. I know the usual things "go out there, focus on yourself, etc etc" but I don't know how. This sucks so much. She was a huge part of my life in that short time. I get "obsessed" easily, and really let her in. I feel so empty.
I had over a month to get used to it but it doesnt hurt any less this time, especially knowing that it's real. We are going to try to be friends down the road after a break, but it hurts. Alot. I don't know what to do anymore. I know the usual things "go out there, focus on yourself, etc etc" but I don't know how. This sucks so much. She was a huge part of my life in that short time. I get "obsessed" easily, and really let her in. I feel so empty.
Slayer-33
Liverpool-2
Jo Shishido's Cheeks
Member
Wow.
Wow wow wow wow wow.
I'm shaking my head so damn much right now, that link was... pretty terrifying actually.
I guess I'd just wrongly assumed that once matured and experienced that many (most?) men would be able to accurately gauge and more importantly respect women and their wishes.
Naivety mixed with wishful thinking clearly!
Though I'm still not sure whether verbal consent is the absolute be-all-and-end-all, I certainly now think it has a higher importance than I'd previously considered.
Right ..
Must be a special breed of women around there.
If she voluntarily got naked, not resisting verbally or psychically and then co-operates with the "penetration process" why the hell should anyone ask.
Thats basically as stupid when you're starting to kiss someone and stop in the midst of the moment to ask for permission to slip your tongue inside her mouth.
SquiddyCracker
Banned
This is word-for-word what I could see some people suggest in this thread.
? She stuck around for the extra month and a half for me because I asked her to. Problem?
There's one thing that sticks out in all of this, and all I can say as advice is that you do know how to move on, because at one time you didn't have her. No doubt it'll be hard, just as anything worth doing, but the result will be you happier.
You have suffered a loss so you're expected to go through all the typical emotions, and you should vent in the appropriate places and the appropriate times, and all of that. But moving on will only help you at a point too.
SquiddyCracker
Banned
You'll get over it.
Lots of things only take 3 seconds to ask thats not the point. Bodylanguage is pretty basic in these situations.
Regarding the sex-asking. You can just say 'Are you ready for this?' or something like that. It can feel completely natural to ask. Depends on the girl, depends on the mood... Maybe it fits to say 'You want to fuck me?' It doesn't have to be awkward. And if asking in your own way with a natural feeling is too much for you and will ruin your chance then I don't know what to say.
Devolution
Member
Obviously it's not for many people or they simply choose to ignore it.
Hell just a simple "you want this dick right?" and gauging her reaction would do. There are ways to ask that aren't mood killers and are actually rather hot.
you'll always be miserable if you think people are doing you favors by hanging out with you......stop underestimating yourself.
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