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Dota 2 Beta Thread 2: Real Talk Discouraged [Magnus, Teams, 6.75b, 150+ Shop Items]
- Thread starter Artanisix
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DOTA clearly not as skill intensive as fightman games.
CarbonatedFalcon
Member
I think Quantic just got outpicked more than anything else in Game 1 there, though they did lose it pretty early on as well.
You don't see what the big deal is with using another company's assets without reimbursement or permission?
Lionheart1337
Member
I agree with him though, it's a different type of skill than fighting games. Anyone who played Invoker enough knows spamming is not that hard, whereas timing frames and such for combos in fighting games is harder and takes more practice.
Schweinehund
Member
I find the micro intensive heroes harder and more fun to play. LD has to be the most fun solo lane hero, and enchantress is by far the most fun int carry.
I'm going to need some serious practice on meepo.
It's stolen model. Aion owns it, no one else. What's so hard to understand?
I say that in Dota, it's just as hard if not harder in some cases. Popping that Phase Shift with Puck to avoid Huskar's Life Break, making those deadly fog hooks with Pudge, and Mirana's arrows are just a few examples. I didn't even discuss adapting your item builds for the situation. I was Puck against Anti-Mage yesterday and I made the tactical decision to go Arcane Boots instead of my usual Treads on Puck.
Honestly the need for quick thinking and reflex in dota is laughable in comparish is on to most fighting games. Which is completely fine since it more than makes up in other areas, the problem is that the most flashy aspects are the ones that get the most praise (like that Invoker play) when in other genres it's done better.
Train of Midnight
Banned
I understand why it's wrong obviously, but these people on the Dota Workshop want this guy's blood. Just chill the fuck out, people.
Has Aion's company said anything?
Has Aion's company said anything?
They havent said anything and they dont need to for the community to react this way. The workshop was founded on creativity and hard work ending in real contribution to games you like and even money. It makes the workshop community look bad when people get prestige and money for ripping off the work of others.
poppedcollar69
Member
So I was experimenting with warlock fatal bonds and using diffusal blade on level 1 naga illusions... copypaste from the combat log:
So the first illusion, which I targeted with the diffusal blade, takes 549 damage, which is equal to its hp. The real siren takes 20% of that, 109 damage. But the other two illusions appear to have taken their hp in damage plus 109 damage, which I don't understand.
So the first illusion, which I targeted with the diffusal blade, takes 549 damage, which is equal to its hp. The real siren takes 20% of that, 109 damage. But the other two illusions appear to have taken their hp in damage plus 109 damage, which I don't understand.
Train of Midnight
Banned
Oh, people do get paid for Workshop stuff? I was wondering how that worked.
Yeah, ok. I redact my previous statements. That shits needs to go.
If Aion management even sniffs this the wrong way they can easily start the ball rolling on what could eventually lead to the steam workshop/user-submitted dota2 items being shut down completely. Of course that's the absolute worst-case scenario. Best-case, this is seen as a chance for cross-promotion and we'd see iconic items from other games (maybe orcs must die stuff or swordinthe stone from magicka) ingame with profits going directly to the borrowed IP's owners.
That's been being done in TF2 for years now. As for Aion shutting down the Steamwork shop entirely, that's completely ridiculous. It's like someone shutting down Youtube for users uploading movies and TV shows, just ban the user or implement a better filter.
How can you filter for every item/weapon in every non-valve game? It's impossible to do.
Crowdsource it, just like how this was discovered.
Which is something they're already doing so.
Never understimate lawyers! All it takes is for another company to profit with borrowed IP for talks to begin. Do you remember the "Scrolls" vs Elder Scrolls BS where the case was shaky at best?
Crowdsourcing doesn't solve things. What if the vast majority will vote up a well-made and artfully done item that's an homage from a non-Valve IP? This isn't etsy or some indie game, but a full fledged digital content creation and submission system that allows both contributors and Valve to make money. Aion itself wouldn't have to request this to be shut down, but it could be the precursor to increasingly restrictive submission guidelines, TOS/EULA, and other sorts of certification messes that will make the system cumbersome and ultimately unappealing.
What i'm really trying to get at, and what most people have already said, is that basically one person doing this can ruin it for everyone.
Dreams-Visions
Member
that's unfortunate. I have that mace. The original designer should obviously get the proceeds and I'm surprised something so blatant would be done.
There we go. The workshop is very popular for many reasons. One of the biggest reasons is making money on your creation
BingoBongo
Neo Member
i played this game so much, read many guides but i'm still in the trash pool
you guys have some tips?
the only heros that i'm really comfortable with, are item indipendents supports. excepted riki for obvious reasons
you guys have some tips?
the only heros that i'm really comfortable with, are item indipendents supports. excepted riki for obvious reasons
Complex Shadow
Cudi Lame
chaos knight. no questions just do it
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
How many games have you played? (I'm just curious what "so much" is) And what do people mean by "the trash pool"?
It goes from Normal-High-Very High now. There's no trash pool really when the majority of people are probably in normal.
CarbonatedFalcon
Member
Welp, Leshrac is insanely good if you let him get out of control. Got him in SD and dominated. It's fun trying out new heroes you've seen, but haven't played so much.
Though I guess Leshrac being good is old news, as he's a top (or maybe second now) tier ban/pick.
Though I guess Leshrac being good is old news, as he's a top (or maybe second now) tier ban/pick.
How do you check to see which pool you are in?
BingoBongo
Neo Member
hundred n fifty and with trash pool i mean the lowest:
sometimes leavers, autoattacking creeps, boots 1st item on squishy heroes, trying to make impossibles early ganks, don't initiate tf (don't use blink + ravage for example) and always focus the wrong hero or focus multiple heroes, no push/push the wrong towers delaying the game, tf 1vs4/2vs5/..., when defending not standing back the towers and not waiting the whole team, ecc...
not arguing that i'm better, i'm still in this pool.
Dreams-Visions
Member
I agree they need to add another layer of separation. A "Low" grouping for people who are genuinely new to the game. It's part of the reason so many "Normal" games end up being snowball rofflestomps one way or the other.
Also, I'm definitely enjoying the "High" level games I've been playing. Much more intense with decidedly better play across the board.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Jesus christ, had a pretty decent game going until the twenty minute mark when our Riki says "brb guys going to eat" and then goes afk for, I shit you not, half an hour. And even then we still got them down to one tower at half health but every time we tried to push in and knock it down they slaughtered us. Maybe if we hadn't been down a player for half an hour we could have had that one.
Schweinehund
Member
Leshrac is crazy good. Edict just eats any hero up. Pair him up with shadow demon and you have one clusterfuck lane (for added bonus, exort invoker mid).
If you want a hero that will carry you out of any tier that you're in, I would recommend duo lane lich, solo lane invoker, solo lane lone druid, jungle lycan, jungle prophet. Getting good at invoker is your best bet. I think what influences the game the most is how successful your mid is, and I would argue that invoker is capable of handling just about any mid. Invoker is also extremely flexible in roles. Any hero that can carry the game while being successful without a lane partner is a good choice for winning in pubs. I recommend lich because he will just autowin lanes regardless of you or your opponents skill level, he's a good fallback pick if you can't play any of the above.
I get the most enjoyment out of the game by randoming though, it keeps the game interesting and helps me develop skills for each hero and understand their strengths and weaknesses better.
Also special shoutout to bounty hunter. If played right he's probably the best stealth pub stomper, and he doesn't really need uber cs to get to that status. With good map awareness and the right opponent line up he will just stomp them early game. Phaser/Drum/Aquilas max rank jinada hits surprisingly hard. Just don't do the battlefury build, its a waste of time. He's not a fast farmer, and its a complete waste of his ult. Battlefury farming also doesn't give gold to your team mates and cause the other team to lose gold.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
I'm definitely not confient enough yet to random in All Pick, especially because in pub matches I usually pick support of some kind because no-one else will. But I absolutly love Single Draft because of how often it forces me into trying new or little-used heroes. Even if I suck as them (had like a 2/7/3 Lina game last night) I still feel like I'm learning how they operate.
CarbonatedFalcon
Member
There was a time in WC3 Dota when it could, but I'm pretty sure it's invulnerable in Dota 2. Saw something posted about this a few days ago.
And Dota 2 really needs something like the medals you get in e.g. Halo 2/3 and above after the game ends. I want to see how many double kills, triple kills, clutch escapes, etc. people have.
CarbonatedFalcon
Member
Another thing that could use improvement is the watch games tab. It's really lacking in functionality with it just being a page and then arrows to navigate the 100s of other pages.
You need to be able to sort by skill level, heroes in the game, starting soon, game mode, etc.
Leave the front page for games that have either just started or feature pro players (if they want to be tracked in this manner.)
There may be some sort of algorithm there already, but the page is still horribly unusable.
You need to be able to sort by skill level, heroes in the game, starting soon, game mode, etc.
Leave the front page for games that have either just started or feature pro players (if they want to be tracked in this manner.)
There may be some sort of algorithm there already, but the page is still horribly unusable.
only if i get a 720noskopes medal
Normal is low/areyounew?? tier. They just changed the name so noobs didn't feel bad about being awful.
get momquit nerd
MrChocolate
Member
FFS Im tired of this dumb a**holes that I get on matchmaking.
We were like 30 - 10, and suddenly, they start being cocky, going alone and while doing so getting ganked until we got 38 - 40 and the other team won.
Yeah, Im mad as fuck...
We were like 30 - 10, and suddenly, they start being cocky, going alone and while doing so getting ganked until we got 38 - 40 and the other team won.
Yeah, Im mad as fuck...
Train of Midnight
Banned
Man, bad fucking night. Couldn't win a single game.
Eh, playing with the kag bros is close enough to angry birds anyway, you're basically throwing your heroes at the enemy base.
Schweinehund
Member
dota 2 casualfest iphone game confirmed.
Dreams-Visions
Member
That's really the point. There is a large range of competency between "are you new" and "are you high yet?". That competency difference often results in feeders and ragequitters that is seen so often in normal level games. Dota could use maybe one more division so that people who are almost "High" are not finding themselves solo pubbing and on a team with a guy with 0 wins.
So maybe a "Low" division for truly new people so that they don't get shit on by guys with 400 games worth of experience if for no other reason...and so that the teammates of the guy getting shit on don't have their games ruined by a guy playing against people notably better than he or she.
@Ikuu, that's good to know. But it still seems like it could use a bit more division between the very bottom and everyone else.
was the other team full of late-blooming hard carries or something? I find that it's pretty hard to blow a 20 kill lead, especially assuming you had a tower advantage.
iunno maybe make people who pick 'new to the game' when they first start it up play some bot matches or something before mm?
was the other team full of late-blooming hard carries or something? I find that it's pretty hard to blow a 20 kill lead, especially assuming you had a tower advantage.
hahahahha shoutout to loki_demi
Dreams-Visions
Member
yea idunno either. but I Valve I trust.
Perhaps a system similar to the StarCraft II approach. 4 or 5 "placement" matches, then dropped into an appropriate level of play that you can move up from as you get better. It doesn't have to be as obvious as StarCraft II's Bronze/Silver/Gold/Diamond system, but I'm sure they can work something out.
I can support this. I have a huge... 46 wins to my name. I've started queuing with friends who have just started and there's a noticeable difference in skill level between my typical games and these.
I've been playing HoN MM for the past few months instead of Dota 2, but I'm warming back up into Dota 2, and for some reason matchmaking is god-fucking-awful. I only 40 recorded matchs in official MM, but everytime I matchmake I get stuck with people on the other team with 200+ wins, while my team has even or LOWER. Like do I just need to play 24/7 and lose a shit ton of games or does Valve need to hurry the fuck up and make this game available to everyone so I can stomp on people worse than me guarunteed?
EDIT: Looks like it just happens to be who I queue with, which in this case was my friend NukeDukem who has about 200 games under his belt, I guess the MM only takes into consideration the highest-number-games-played-player?
EDIT: Looks like it just happens to be who I queue with, which in this case was my friend NukeDukem who has about 200 games under his belt, I guess the MM only takes into consideration the highest-number-games-played-player?
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