Support NeoGAF

[WanderingWind]

Meh, at this point I doubt it. Assange will get send into Sweden, maybe go into trial gets fines and that's it. Whole ordeal will make Assange look like paranoid twat.

I mean, what is there to doubt?

 

[Hindle]

They want hilm because he posted sensitive information that could endanger American lives, what else did he expect?

 

[SirIgbyCeaser]

If he gets assassinated i'd chuckle.

 

[sangreal]

They want hilm because he posted sensitive information that could endanger American lives, what else did he expect?

Actually, he is wanted for molesting women and fleeing the country to avoid prosecution. Also, for violating the Bail Act in the UK by escaping his house arrest

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

At this point, he's got no chance of a fair trial. It would instantly become about politics, and the US would love nothing more than to discredit him and lock him up.

He'd be out in 2 years at most even if he was convicted, and it's not like Swedish prison is anywhere near the hellholes we have here.

 

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

If he gets assassinated i'd chuckle.

...

 

[FStop7]

They want hilm because he posted sensitive information that could endanger American lives, what else did he expect?

Oh is that what it could do


Lots of regurgitated talking points going on in here

If he gets assassinated i'd chuckle.

And we're done.

 

[iNvid02]

If he gets assassinated i'd chuckle.

ok yeah but WHAT THE FUCK?

 

[Sir_Crocodile]

If he gets assassinated i'd chuckle.

Why on earth would you do that?

 

[RyanDG]

Because the UK extradition process allows for more opposition than the Swedish one? (Meaning it would take a lot longer.) Because the English-speaking Assange actually can defend himself against extradition in an English-speaking court? (Meaning it would be easier to dispute it.)

#1 - The UK extradition treaty is actually more lax than the treaty with Sweden. Furthermore, both treaties allow for a lengthy review process and appeals process before being sent over. Additionally, the EU itself also has the potential to review the extradition order PRIOR to Assange being sent over to the US (which would allow him to defend himself in English if he so chooses). There is nothing more beneficial to the US in having Assange in Sweden than having Assange in the UK.

To be fair, if the US wanted to extradite Assange, it would've even been easier for them to do so to have Sweden NOT be requesting his extradition. The fact that Sweden is requesting Assange's extradition actualy complicates things more.

#2 - Translators would be provided for him if he doesn't understand the language, but an important thing to also consider here, is that Assange previously applied for Swedish residency so should have a level of comfortability with the country and its proceedings.

I'll bet.

No, the typical accused rapist is not pursued and given this much attention on an international scale. This is not about rape, but rather about destroying a man's reputation in order to bring him to "justice" by any means necessary for his Wikileaks activities. His story and the known facts make more sense than the claims being made against him.

When someone has the level of celebrity as Assange, it is only natural that he gets plastered all over the news. However, it is dishonest to suggest that people aren't extradited to other countries over rape charges after lengthy court proceedings and that countries don't pursue alleged rapists to bring them to justice.

Secondly, I believe that it is misguided to suggest that this is not about rape, as what you are essentially doing here is suggesting that there is no validity to the charges brought by the women who are the alleged victims of the crime. I guess it's fine to blame the victim but considering that these charges actually make it more difficult for Assange to be brought to "justice" (by the US with criminal charges if they should so choose) for his wiki leaks activity because of the potential for dual extradition requests (and the issues with international courts that these cause), means that if the US was some sort of puppeteer organizing the women, the swedish courts, and the UK courts now in some grand conspiracy, they have essentially made their jobs harder now.

 

[Kusagari]

This part really doesn't make any sense. Sweden would not give Assange over US in any situation.

Ecuador said Sweden could have him if they guaranteed that, and they wouldn't.

 

[Nickovic]

I'm really annoyed with the Australian government. Do something. Damn it Julia

 

[Mael]

Ecuador said Sweden could have him if they guaranteed that, and they wouldn't.

Sweden can't guarantee either that he won't be abducted by aliens.
The US has done nothing to request him so they can't answer that question it's also what UK said.

 

[KHarvey16]

If the rape accusation is a manufactered threat or if it is real.

The manufactured part is the claim the UK and Sweden ate acting because of pressure from the US, and that the US just wants to extradite him themselves. It's entirely unsubstantiated beyond a bunch of people with vested interests in others believing it saying it's true.

Then why won't the US say as much?

Sweden and the UK have said they aren't being pressured.

 

[sangreal]

Then why won't the US say as much?

...

"I have no information to indicate that there is any truth to that at all," State Department spokeswoman Victoria Nuland told reporters. "This is an issue between the Ecuadorians, the Brits, the Swedes. I don’t have anything particular to add," Nuland said.
...
"It is an issue among the countries involved, and we are not planning to interject ourselves," she said.

 

[AAequal]

Ecuador said Sweden could have him if they guaranteed that, and they wouldn't.

Of course they can't, there are many things they can't guarantee for him. But again it's just silly to think Sweden would hand Julian for the US. Sweden has very strict extradition laws for criminal offences.

 

[1-UP]

Of course they can't, there are many things they can't guarantee for him. But again it's just silly to think Sweden would hand Julian for the US. Sweden has very strict extradition laws for criminal offences.

This.

 

[D4Danger]

Sweden and the UK have said they aren't being pressured.

the former British Ambassador to Uzbekistan Craig Murray seems to think they are

http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2012/08/americas-vassal-acts-decisively-and-illegally/

I returned to the UK today to be astonished by private confirmation from within the FCO that the UK government has indeed decided – after immense pressure from the Obama administration – to enter the Ecuadorean Embassy and seize Julian Assange.

Why is America involved at all? Assange is an Australian in the UK, hiding in a Ecuadorian embassy, wanted for questioning in Sweden.

 

[massoluk]

1. All we got is Julian Assange's words on the conspiracy theory.
2. Actual substantiated stuffs just pointed that this is Sweden wanting to have a trial on alleged rapes.
3. The dudes co-workers confirmed he was an asshole.

Forgive me for not buying whatever he's selling.

 

[KHarvey16]

the former British Ambassador to Uzbekistan Craig Murray seems to think they are

http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2012/08/americas-vassal-acts-decisively-and-illegally/



Why is America involved at all? Assange is an Australian in the UK, hiding in a Ecuadorian embassy, wanted for questioning in Sweden.

"Private confirmation." And still no one can think up a reason for why anyone would want to storm the embassy to get him. He can't get out.

 

[midonnay]

Sweden and the UK have said they aren't being pressured.

but what about the former ambassador to Uzbekistan saying that his sources has told him that the US are pressuring the british to storm the embassy?

doesn't sound like something a former diplomat would make up...


edit: nvm already posted :/

 

[1-UP]

1. All we got is Julian Assange's words on the conspiracy theory.
2. Actual substantiated stuffs just pointed that this is Sweden wanting to have a trial on alleged rapes.
3. The dudes co-workers confirmed he was an asshole.

Forgive me for not buying whatever he's selling.

.

 

[SirIgbyCeaser]

Why on earth would you do that?

He's kinda making himself a target, the United States hates the fact that someone is published and avoiding laws. He might really be a rapist avoiding charges. Actually, the chick he raped should be the one pulling the trigger.

It's not gonna happen though, but come on, it'd be pretty funny if it did.

 

[KHarvey16]

but what about the former ambassador to Uzbekistan saying that his sources has told him that the US are pressuring the british to storm the embassy?

doesn't sound like something a former diplomat would make up...


edit: nvm already posted :/

Let's also be clear that this ambassador has a history of anti-US sentiment. He was fired from his job. Now, his feelings may be justified and it's certainly possible his firing was wrong, but it means simply taking his word is difficult.

 

[Mael]

but what about the former ambassador to Uzbekistan saying that his sources has told him that the US are pressuring the british to storm the embassy?

doesn't sound like something a former diplomat would make up...


edit: nvm already posted :/

We've got plenty of former officials who're full of.shit
Can't speak if they're as bad in the UK

 

[empty vessel]

They want hilm because he posted sensitive information that could endanger American lives, what else did he expect?

Talk about paranoid!

1. All we got is Julian Assange's words on the conspiracy theory.

The existence of a federal grand jury investigating charges against Assange is confirmed by the US government itself, including charges that carry the death penalty.

 

[Paches]

They want hilm because he posted sensitive information that could endanger American lives, what else did he expect?

Yeah, he exposed illegal activity done by world governments. Of course they want to nab him. If a journalist from the NYT did an exposé on the collateral murder video and posted the leaked video, they wouldn't have gotten in trouble.

 

[Choke on the Magic]

Actually, he is wanted for molesting women and fleeing the country to avoid prosecution. Also, for violating the Bail Act in the UK by escaping his house arrest

I think he's refering as to why the US wants him extradited and he's right. This guy's a joke.

 

[ComputerMKII]

Are other accused rapists so vehemently pursued?

Roman Polanski

 

[SirIgbyCeaser]

Roman Polanski

He managed to sneak in and make the movie Carnage in new york anyway.

I though that was impressive. Also Ballsy.

 

[ComputerMKII]

If he gets assassinated i'd chuckle.

I disagree, but if the UK police somehow storm the embassy and they find out Assange had already left the country weeks ago I'd find that amusing.

He managed to sneak in and make the movie Carnage in new york anyway.

I though that was impressive. Also Ballsy.

Although set in Brooklyn, New York, the film was shot in Paris, because of Polanski's fugitive status.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnage_(2011_film)#Production

 

[KHarvey16]

The existence of a federal grand jury investigating charges against Assange is confirmed by the US government itself, including charges that carry the death penalty.

I believe the focus of the investigation is the question of Assange participating in the theft, not receiving or publishing anything. And as far as I know, Sweden won't extradite anyone if the death penalty is a potential punishment for the crimes cited in the indictment.

 

[Mael]

Roman Polanski

So Switzerland and the US are also part of the eu?
Man I didn't know we saved the Euro at this extent

 

[sangreal]

The existence of a federal grand jury investigating charges against Assange is confirmed by the US government itself, including charges that carry the death penalty.

While I actually don't doubt the existence of a grand jury, this is not true.

 

[shinobi602]

I haven't been following this Assange case much...can anyone sum up what crimes he's being charged with and why this is international?

 

[Mael]

It's international because he fled Sweden and is trying jump ship out of the UK

 

[Lonely1]

It's a manufactured threat if we're judging by anything other than unsubstantiated statements from Assange, his lawyers or Ecuador.

I will take the official world of the Ecuadorian government over yours.

 

[sangreal]

I haven't been following this Assange case much...can anyone sum up what crimes he's being charged with and why this is international?

The EAW sets out four offences:

“1. Unlawful coercion - On 13-14 August 2010, in the home of the injured party [AA] in
Stockholm, Assange, by using violence, forced the injured party to endure his restricting
her freedom of movement. The violence consisted in a firm hold of the injured party’s
arms and a forceful spreading of her legs whilst lying on top of her and with his body
weight preventing her from moving or shifting.

2.Sexual molestation - On 13-14 August 2010, in the home of the injured party [AA] in
Stockholm, Assange deliberately molested the injured party by acting in a manner
designed to violate her sexual integrity. Assange, who was aware that it was the
expressed wish of the injured party and a prerequisite of sexual intercourse that a
condom be used, consummated unprotected sexual intercourse with her without her
knowledge.

3.Sexual molestation - On 18 August 2010 or on any of the days before or after that
date, in the home of the injured party [AA] in Stockholm, Assange deliberately molested
the injured party by acting in a manner designed to violate her sexual integrity i.e. lying
next to her and pressing his naked, erect penis to her body.

4.Rape - On 17 August 2010, in the home of the injured party [SW] in Enköping,
Assange deliberately consummated sexual intercourse with her by improperly exploiting
that she, due to sleep, was in a helpless state.

It is an aggravating circumstance that Assange, who was aware that it was the
expressed wish of the injured party and a prerequisite of sexual intercourse that a
condom be used, still consummated unprotected sexual intercourse with her. The
sexual act was designed to violate the injured party’s sexual integrity.”

It is international because Assange fled Sweden to avoid the investigation and tried to seek Asylum in Britain, and now Ecuador.

 

[Mael]

I will take the official world of the Ecuadorian government over yours.

Ah yes the wonderful Ecuadorian diplomats known for smuggling cocaine in diplomatic bags...

 

[SirIgbyCeaser]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnage_(2011_film)#Production

I've been fooled by hollywood.

 

[sangreal]

I will take the official world of the Ecuadorian government over yours.

You should probably do some research on the Ecuadorian government then.

 

[akira28]

Of course they can't, there are many things they can't guarantee for him. But again it's just silly to think Sweden would hand Julian for the US. Sweden has very strict extradition laws for criminal offences.

Oh yes, tremendously silly. Silly silly. Lets disregard the possibility of something because it's completely uncommon, and the novelty of it causes us to be confident that it will not occur. Not because it's impossible, or even difficult, just complicated, rare, but not unexpected. I don't see what makes it silly.

If the US wanted him, wouldn't they put up with the difficulties? If it's so strict, why wouldn't they be able to point out that extradition wouldn't occur because he'd be too busy dealing with Swiss Sweetish law? They won't because it's not true. Sweden could just as simply find him guilty, and then why wouldn't he stand to be held responsible for laws broken internationally?

 

[Sir_Crocodile]

He's kinda making himself a target, the United States hates the fact that someone is published and avoiding laws. He might really be a rapist avoiding charges. Actually, the chick he raped should be the one pulling the trigger.

It's not gonna happen though, but come on, it'd be pretty funny if it did.

It might be funny if a guy whose innocence or guilt has not been proven is executed?
If he was guilty under swedish law it should be imprisonment anyway, unless you're a fan of the death penalty.

 

[Mael]

Swiss is in the story too, now?

 

[AnathemicOne]

Swiss is in the story too, now?

Sweden, not Switzerland

 

[OriginofHysteria]

I have no idea.


It's a waste of money.

I think it actually costs more to keep prisoners alive.

 

[Mael]

Sweden, not Switzerland

Oh yes, tremendously silly. Silly silly. Lets disregard the possibility of something because it's completely uncommon, and the novelty of it causes us to be confident that it will not occur. Not because it's impossible, or even difficult, just complicated, rare, but not unexpected. I don't see what makes it silly.

If the US wanted him, wouldn't they put up with the difficulties? If it's so strict, why wouldn't they be able to point out that extradition wouldn't occur because he'd be too busy dealing with Swiss Sweetish law? They won't because it's not true. Sweden could just as simply find him guilty, and then why wouldn't he stand to be held responsible for laws broken internationally?

Corrected now

 

[akira28]

Swederland, Switzerland, same fuckin place.

 

[empty vessel]

I believe the focus of the investigation is the question of Assange participating in the theft, not receiving or publishing anything. And as far as I know, Sweden won't extradite anyone if the death penalty is a potential punishment for the crimes cited in the indictment.

What does any of that matter to whether or not Assange's assertions of political persecution are a "conspiracy theory"?

While I actually don't doubt the existence of a grand jury, this is not true.

It is true in any meaningful sense of the word. Holder has personally confirmed the existence of "an active, ongoing criminal investigation" against Wikileaks. "Let me be very clear, it is not saber rattling. To the extent there are gaps in our laws, we will move to close those gaps, which is not to say ... that anybody at this point, because of their citizenship or their residence, is not a target or a subject of an investigation that's ongoing."

And the existence of the grand jury is otherwise known.

You should probably do some research on the Ecuadorian government then.

The Ecuadoran government is no less respectable than the US, UK, or Swedish governments.

 

[Lonely1]

The existence of a federal grand jury investigating charges against Assange is confirmed by the US government itself, including charges that carry the death penalty.

But, as I understand, the USA can legally detain foreign citizens for indefinite time without charges. And has a proven history of doing so.

You should probably do some research on the Ecuadorian government then.

Not that I trust USA and England governments more.