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[Always-honest]

Which is, and it is my point. Apart from the exterior looks (which only fool you for a split second) there is no sane person in the world that will buy a GS thinking it's an iPhone. That accounted for Apple accusations towards Samsung by the way.

They copied almost the entire thing to ride on its succes. The verdict says nothing about the quality of of the copy. Which in general is pretty good.

 

[HollovVpo1nt]

They copied almost the entire thing to ride on its succes. The verdict says nothing about the quality of of the copy. Which in general is pretty good.

I agree. They wanted to, literally really, provide an alternative iPhone. But there are two things here that should stay separated:

1. Copying the succesfull iPhone design and therefor providing a more affordable iPhone alternative
2. Copying the iPhone to make people think it IS the iPhone

I think there might have been people that played around with a GS and thought: well it looks like and iPhone and has about the same fuctionality, but it's cheaper so I might concider this over an iPhone. But I highly doubt there were people who thought: Hey this is a cheaper iPhone! I'll buy this!

 

[Krauser Kat]

Everyone with eyes can conclude that the Galaxy S is trying to look like an iPhone. But what you, and many other are doing, is selectively seeking for screenshots/images that suggest that the devices are inseparable. The Galaxy S in your image is a Galaxy S withing the App Drawer, with no background. Also, if the UI of Android is so bad and slow and fugly, how come people supposedly confuse it with the almighty buttery smooth epitome of design called iOS?

Thanks for not touching an android phone since ICS. Please re inform yourself.

 

[HollovVpo1nt]

Thanks for not touching an android phone since ICS. Please re inform yourself.

What? I didn't say I agreed with the UI beeing bad/ugly/slow (on the contrary really), I was trying to point out how people get confused with the two devices, gives the supposed significant differences in user experience.

 

[mescalineeyes]

Thanks for not touching an android phone since ICS. Please re inform yourself.

You might want to work on your reading comprehension/sarcasm detector.

But hey, if I can get Android fanboys to rile each other up then I'll gladly take that power.

 

[Always-honest]

I agree. They wanted to, literally really, provide an alternative iPhone. But there are two things here that should stay separated:

1. Copying the succesfull iPhone design and therefor providing a more affordable iPhone alternative
2. Copying the iPhone to make people think it IS the iPhone

I think there might have been people that played around with a GS and thought: well it looks like and iPhone and has about the same fuctionality, but it's cheaper so I might concider this over an iPhone. But I highly doubt there were people who thought: Hey this is a cheaper iPhone! I'll buy this!

i actually thinksome do think that.
A lot of people thought and maybe still believe that they are identical products, just from another brand.

Thanks for not touching an android phone since ICS. Please re inform yourself.

well yes, they are getting better and better at it.

 

[mescalineeyes]

well yes, they are getting better and better at it.

JB is very, very smooth.

Until you open any app not made by Google, that is.

 

[jorma]

You might want to work on your reading comprehension/sarcasm detector.

But hey, if I can get Android fanboys to rile each other up then I'll gladly take that power.

well you are the one riled up at the moment, even though the company you root for won a billion dollars.. weird how that goes.

 

[mescalineeyes]

well you are the one riled up at the moment, even though the company you root for won a billion dollars.. weird how that goes.

The only reason I am "riled up" is because Apple still hasn't sent out invites to their iPhone 6 event and I have to keep using a phone that is literally too dumb to track my runs or scroll through Groupons faster than 5fps.

According to android this here chubby guy ran a marathon last saturday.

 

[jorma]

The only reason I am "riled up" is because Apple still hasn't sent out invites to their iPhone 6 event and I have to keep using a phone that is literally too dumb to track my runs or scroll through Groupons faster than 5fps.

"ok"

 

[HollovVpo1nt]

i actually thinksome do think that.
A lot of people thought and maybe still believe that they are identical products, just from another brand.

Well then the discussion strads. I don't think people bought the GS thinking it was an iPhone, you do. Can't help that.

You might want to work on your reading comprehension/sarcasm detector.

But hey, if I can get Android fanboys to rile each other up then I'll gladly take that power.

Given he quoted for me not sensing the sarcasm, I take you call me a fanboy too? I find that a bigger offence calling a forum poster "he/she", which is supposed to be a bannable offence to you. Especially since I have tried to elaborated my thoughts, much more than you have done so far. Please do elaboraty why I'm an Android fanboy.

 

[mescalineeyes]

Well then the discussion strads. I don't think people bought the GS thinking it was an iPhone, you do. Can't help that.

This is not about Samsung trying to fool people into thinking they are buying an iPhone.

The problem is with Samsung forgoing years of R&D by simply copying the iPhone.

Samsung phones, certainly nowadays, are good enough to merit a sale on their own. Samsung has always been an established and trusted brand. They have no reason to fool people into buying their Galaxy devices.

 

[bionic77]

Well it must have, because the iphone4 changed everything ALL OVER AGAIN!

It was the first iPhone where everything just worked and had good battery life. Its successor was not even as good.

I am not going to step into the fanboy wars and take a shot at Android because I actually like the stock Nexus phones. I just get annoyed when some people can't admit the obvious (at least to me) because of some attachment they hold to their phone/console/pillow/etc.

 

[HollovVpo1nt]

This is not about Samsung trying to fool people into thinking they are buying an iPhone.

The problem is with Samsung forgoing years of R&D by simply copying the iPhone.

Samsung phones, certainly nowadays, are good enough to merit a sale on their own. Samsung has always been an established and trusted brand. They have no reason to fool people into buying their Galaxy devices.

To fool = To deceive or trick; dupe. I think it's more luring people into buying the phone that actually fooling people to buy the phone. One will be fooled once he/she bought the phone and found out it wasn't an iPhone. Which, again, is highly unlikely cause it sais samsung on the front of the device, on the back of the device and during the boot-up sequence. Apart from that, the Galaxy S has two capacitive buttuns which the iPhone doesn't (which are visible and not touch activated), a different form factor and different dimensions. In all honestly, side by side, the phones don't look as much alike as the images make it look.

Also, please reply to my previous request.

 

[mescalineeyes]

To fool = To deceive or trick; dupe. I think it's more luring people into buying the phone that actually fooling people to buy the phone. One will be fooled once he/she bought the phone and found out it wasn't an iPhone. Which, again, is highly unlikely cause it sais samsung on the front of the device, on the back of the device and during the boot-up sequence. Apart from that, the Galaxy S has two capacitive buttuns which the iPhone doesn't (which are visible and not touch activated), a different form factor and different dimensions. In all honestly, side by side, the phones don't look as much alike as the images make it look.

Also, please reply to my previous request.

please re-read my post, that reiterates a lot of points which I agree with, saying that they look sufficiently alike not to fool anyone, but not enough to say that Samsung came up with all of this on its own.

Given he quoted for me not sensing the sarcasm, I take you call me a fanboy too? I find that a bigger offence calling a forum poster "he/she", which is supposed to be a bannable offence to you. Especially since I have tried to elaborated my thoughts, much more than you have done so far. Please do elaboraty why I'm an Android fanboy.

Why I think you are an android Fanboy?
I am not gonna lie, I think there's a few things about Android that are legit great. Hell, I used it for 2 months now and I'm still here and I don't dread it. But it's not all that -- to me at least. And that's okay.
But to deny that Super AMOLED displays are the worst thing in the world once you take them outside the house? That to me is fanboy drivel.

I find that a bigger offence calling a forum poster "he/she", which is supposed to be a bannable offence to you.

Oh, it's not bannable only to me, I've seen it happen. Especially since you're not a Junior member, if you'd say that to the wrong person, you'd probably have quite the shitstorm coming your way. Be careful is all. And nice to our lovely transGAF community should you meet them on your ways here.

 

[HollovVpo1nt]

please re-read my post, that reiterates a lot of points which I agree with, saying that they look sufficiently alike not to fool anyone, but not enough to say that Samsung came up with all of this on its own.

My bad. Yes Samsung did have enough potential to come up with something of their own rather than.. *cough* be inspired by*cough* iPhone. But they didn't. Obviously to draft behind apple's lead. It worked out for them.

 

[mescalineeyes]

My bad. Yes Samsung did have enough potential to come up with something of their own rather than.. *cough* be inspired by*cough* iPhone. But they didn't. Obviously to draft behind apple's lead. It worked out for them.

That's to be seen, since the money they are supposed to fork over to Apple is merely a slap on the wrist, but the patent thing might backfire.

But to rip off something where Steve Jobs, the most vindictive and unstable person working in tech at the time, is standing on stage with his shit-eating grin saying "we patented the hell out of it"... takes special kind of courage. Or stupidity.

 

[HollovVpo1nt]

Why I think you are an android Fanboy?
I am not gonna lie, I think there's a few things about Android that are legit great. Hell, I used it for 2 months now and I'm still here and I don't dread it. But it's not all that -- to me at least. And that's okay.
But to deny that Super AMOLED displays are the worst thing in the world once you take them outside the house? That to me is fanboy drivel.

A. That would make an Amoled fanboy
B. I didn't deny nor confirm that SAMOLED displays are bad (outside). I said that claim is inaccurate, then gave the reason why I think it's inaccurate. The Lumia 800/900 is in the same family of displays (amoled) and, again, have taken a lot of top spots when it comes to outside readability.

http://www.theverge.com/2012/5/8/30...laymate-outdoor-readability-test-galaxy-s-and

That article states that Lumia 900 wins outside readability (credit given to CleanBlack technology) but also states that the Galaxy S came in second and the iPhone 4 a close third. Both the Lumia and the Galaxy S have an Amoled display. The article does state "AMOLED technology has for a long time been plagued by terrible readability when taken out in direct sunlight, as evidenced by the results produced by the now well-aged HTC Desire, which starts to struggle under conditions defined as "heavy shade." "

But if the Galaxy S can beat the iPhone, I don't see why the Galaxy Nexus couldn't, since it has better screen technology.

If you would have been more calm and not dropping unsupported oneliners, I think you could have prevented the f-bomb (which is fanboy, a term a hate more than cursing)

That's to be seen, since the money they are supposed to fork over to Apple is merely a slap on the wrist, but the patent thing might backfire.

But to rip off something where Steve Jobs, the most vindictive and unstable person working in tech at the time, is standing on stage with his shit-eating grin saying "we patented the hell out of it"... takes special kind of courage. Or stupidity.

I have no time to explain what I think of that statement, but there has been an excellent TED talk, which used tose infamous words as an example. It's really interesting (just 10 minuntes, have look if haven't seen it already):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zd-dqUuvLk4

 

[Osiris]

Google has finally found a few words to express their opinion on the ruling:

Google responds

“The court of appeals will review both infringement and the validity of the patent claims. Most of these don’t relate to the core Android operating system, and several are being re-examined by the U.S. Patent Office. The mobile industry is moving fast and all players — including newcomers — are building upon ideas that have been around for decades. We work with our partners to give consumers innovative and affordable products, and we don’t want anything to limit that.”

In other words... "Meh, Nothing to do with us."

A much more muted and noncommital response than I expected, that's for sure.

 

[atomsk]

Now, the notification drawer, that's where it's really at. Apple ripped that off and it's still not as good as the original.

rip webos

and this

Apple said they owned patents, but we were debating about the prior art [about similar technology that Samsung said existed before the iPhone debuted]. [Velvin] Hogan was jury foreman. He had experience. He owned patents himself...so he took us through his experience. After that it was easier. After we debated that first patent -- what was prior art --because we had a hard time believing there was no prior art."

"In fact we skipped that one," Ilagan continued, "so we could go on faster. It was bogging us down."

is fucking infuriating. DO YOUR JOB

 

[gcubed]

rip webos

and this



is fucking infuriating. DO YOUR JOB

yes, this jury isn't doing itself any favors by continuing to talk to the media about how they ignored the judges instructions and just skipped parts of the verdict.

 

[Zombie James]

rip webos

and this



is fucking infuriating. DO YOUR JOB

Pfft, who wants to work on a weekend? Let's not read any of our instructions and just listen to the juror who invented the DVR in 2002. He's a patent expert.

 

[gcubed]

"Once you determine that Samsung violated the patents," Ilagan said, "it's easy to just go down those different [Samsung] products because it was all the same. Like the trade dress, once you determine Samsung violated the trade dress, the flatscreen with the Bezel...then you go down the products to see if it had a bezel. But we took our time. We didn't rush. We had a debate before we made a decision. Sometimes it was getting heated."

again, this jury.

A device with a hardware keyboard and 4 face buttons - infringed on screen and bezel design patent. Between the tab getting awarded money without infringement. the intercept being marked as not infringing but still guilty of inducement and awarded a few million, the jury just skipping parts of the verdict and marking samsung as guilty, and ignoring the judges instructions i'd lol so hard if this got thrown out

Hogan also said: "We wanted to make sure the message we sent was not just a slap on the wrist… We wanted to make sure it was sufficiently high to be painful, but not unreasonable."

Jones noted that the 109-page instructions, which Hogan said the jury had decided not to read, specifically stated that "the damages you award are meant to compensate the patent holder and not to punish an infringer".

 

[Zombie James]

Just keeps getting dumber:

At one point during the second day of deliberations, jurors turned off the lights in the room to settle a debate about the potential influence screen brightness might have on Apple's graphics interface. Their verdict: Apple's designs were unique.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/25/velvin-hogan-foreman-apple-samsung_n_1830411.html

What the hell does this even mean? In low brightness Apple's UI is unique... but in full brightness you can't tell it apart from a Samsung phone?

 

[maharg]

Google has finally found a few words to express their opinion on the ruling:



In other words... "Meh, Nothing to do with us."

A much more muted and noncommital response than I expected, that's for sure.

Google's real response was on Tuesday when they sued Apple through Motorola Mobility.

 

[The Faceless Master]

no, because I have eyes.

that's not to scale and it shows the home screen vs the app launcher

 

[Lothars]

Just keeps getting dumber:



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/25/velvin-hogan-foreman-apple-samsung_n_1830411.html

What the hell does this even mean? In low brightness Apple's UI is unique... but in full brightness you can't tell it apart from a Samsung phone?

I take it as exactly that, It's a very strange statement.

 

[numble]

yes, this jury isn't doing itself any favors by continuing to talk to the media about how they ignored the judges instructions and just skipped parts of the verdict.

rip webos

and this



is fucking infuriating. DO YOUR JOB

Bzzt, try again.


Originally Posted by googleplex:
Nothing indicates that they did discuss Prior art again, lest of all this verdict!

But I guess it helps the narrative to some in here to believe Apple did nothing wrong, as they stand in line for thier yearly iPhone update.
Bzzt, try again.

One of Apple's clean sweeps in the verdict was that all Samsung's smartphones were found to infringe on Apple's patent covering bounce-back. In short, this is what lets a user scroll beyond the edge of an image, Web page, or list, and have it bounce back onto the screen.

"We were thinking Apple filed a patent for bounce-back, (and) that's where we got stuck...because (of) prior art," Ilagan said. He added that the group eventually found some of Samsung's prior art "significantly different" from the technology outlined in Apple's bounce-back patent.

http://news.cnet.com/2300-13579_3-10013512-4.html

SAN JOSE, Calif.-- Just minutes after the nine jurors in the Apple Inc. AAPL +0.09% and Samsung Electronics Co. 005930.SE -0.93% patent trial began deliberating last week, they were stuck. It was seven "yes" votes to two "no" votes on the first question they faced: whether Samsung violated an Apple patent related to the bounceback action a touch-screen makes.

With the votes tallied on a white board, they decided to review the evidence, recounted juror Manuel Ilagan in an interview. They powered up a video of a computerized touchscreen tablet that had been developed by Mitsubishi 8306.TO -1.60% that Samsung asserted proved Apple didn't come up with the idea first and that its patent should be invalidated.

They were huddled around a large oval table in a conference room at the federal courthouse here. On one side there was a large white board. On the other, a refrigerator and coffee machine.

Mr. Ilagan, who is 59, said they watched the video "very, very carefully" but decided to move on when the two weren't swayed. "We didn't want to get bogged down," said Mr. Ilagan, who works in marketing for a company that makes circuit boards.

The bounceback patent, which the jurors eventually decided unanimously that Samsung infringed, was one of a handful of sticking points in the otherwise smooth and surprisingly quick 22 hours of deliberations, according to Mr. Ilagan's account.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...843420578.html

.

 

[Kabuki Quantum Lover]

that's not to scale and it shows the home screen vs the app launcher

Yes, but that's what Samsung used to advertise the Galaxy.

 

[reKon]

Omg, I've been missing out on mescalineeyes posting! This is going to be good

 

[rozay]

At least you didn't call me an "it". If you're unsure of someone's gender, you can use their name. If I was lexi you'd probably be banned right now.

You can get banned for replying to someone and using the term he/she?

 

[samus i am]

You can get banned for replying to someone and using the term he/she?

mescalineeyes was just being contrarian, and frankly it was a very pointless comment.

 

[gcubed]

.

5 things wrong and 1 thing right doesn't make everything right. They "skipped" pinch to zoom, not bounce back, they didn't read the judges instructions, they made multiple mistakes on infringement, inducement and monetary awards, all while trying to say they weren't rushed and took their time... it'll be an interesting appeal.

 

[giga]

5 things wrong and 1 thing right doesn't make everything right. They "skipped" pinch to zoom, not bounce back, they didn't read the judges instructions, they made multiple mistakes on infringement, inducement and monetary awards, all while trying to say they weren't rushed and took their time... it'll be an interesting appeal.

Samsung's prior art argument for pinch to zoom was the Mitsubishi product. I believe the Verge had an article about it. Said product is specifically quoted in the WSJ story. There's no indication that they skipped deliberation completely on the prior art of pinch to zoom.

We're all dealing with incomplete information, where positing from statements that are out of context or lacking of information is muddying what really happened behind the scenes.

 

[buhdeh]

A. That would make an Amoled fanboy
B. I didn't deny nor confirm that SAMOLED displays are bad (outside). I said that claim is inaccurate, then gave the reason why I think it's inaccurate. The Lumia 800/900 is in the same family of displays (amoled) and, again, have taken a lot of top spots when it comes to outside readability.

http://www.theverge.com/2012/5/8/30...laymate-outdoor-readability-test-galaxy-s-and

That article states that Lumia 900 wins outside readability (credit given to CleanBlack technology) but also states that the Galaxy S came in second and the iPhone 4 a close third. Both the Lumia and the Galaxy S have an Amoled display. The article does state "AMOLED technology has for a long time been plagued by terrible readability when taken out in direct sunlight, as evidenced by the results produced by the now well-aged HTC Desire, which starts to struggle under conditions defined as "heavy shade." "

Yeah I don't know about the Nexus but a lot of reviews say that the S3 AMOLED is one of the best for outdoor/sunlight visibility. Here's one: http://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_i9300_galaxy_s_iii-review-761p2.php

 

[phosphor112]

The comments from the Jurors... holy shit. They are more stupid than I thought!

 

[rozay]

Yeah I don't know about the Nexus but a lot of reviews say that the S3 AMOLED is one of the best for outdoor/sunlight visibility. Here's one: http://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_i9300_galaxy_s_iii-review-761p2.php

The reflectivity on the S3 is a lot lower than their implementation on the nexus. Not a fault of AMOLED screens themselves, as nokia has achieved wonders with their clearblack implementation.

Mescalineeyes probably needs to lay off the drugs if the nexus's screen is illegibile in sunlight, but it could be a lot better. The worst phone I've owned in terms of visibility was probably my nexus one, but considering how deep the screen was from the surface it's not surprising.

 

[Error]

I dont get this android is sluggish argument anymore. Jellybean effectively kills that argument, beside the UI is much better than iOS. Next?

 

[mescalineeyes]

I dont get this android is sluggish argument anymore. Jellybean effectively kills that argument, beside the UI is much better than iOS. Next?

Next? Go launch Nike+ on Android and iOS side by side. For example.
Literally every app is worse on Android than on iOS. It's basically like watching a toddler play ball and then seeing the Yankees.

 

[Kinitari]

Next? Go launch Nike+ on Android and iOS side by side. For example.
Literally every app is worse on Android than on iOS. It's basically like watching my a toddler play ball and then seeing the Yankees.

No?... I have a Nexus and My girlfriend has an iPhone4. There are a lot of apps/use cases where I do things about 2x to 3x faster than her phone.

We both open up cut the rope, and mine opens faster - for example. You really are coming off like this means far too much to you. I am sure there are apps that run faster on iOS, but I don't think that's going to be a universal thing bro.

 

[mescalineeyes]

No?... I have a Nexus and My girlfriend has an iPhone4. There are a lot of apps/use cases where I do things about 2x to 3x faster than her phone.

We both open up cut the rope, and mine opens faster - for example. You really are coming off like this means far too much to you. I am sure there are apps that run faster on iOS, but I don't think that's going to be a universal thing bro.

it's not about how fast they open. Go ahead and use them.

 

[pxleyes]

I dont get this android is sluggish argument anymore. Jellybean effectively kills that argument, beside the UI is much better than iOS. Next?

Jellybean is on what, 1% of android phones? Sluggishness is still prelevant in most android phones, and it will be for probably the rest of the year until jellybean phones start hitting. It should tell you everything you need to know that Google had a whole subproject to tackle the frame rate and responsiveness of the OS.

 

[Kinitari]

it's not about how fast they open. Go ahead and use them.

I have? We both have? Seriously - a few apps here or there I am sure are faster on iOS - but you think every single one?

 

[mescalineeyes]

I have? We both have? Seriously - a few apps here or there I am sure are faster on iOS - but you think every single one?

It's not only about speed. I am talking about UX.
But yeah, most apps are slower on Android, even if they launch faster due to the good hardware they're on.

 

[buhdeh]

mescalineeyes and pxleyes are the same person.

 

[virtuoso88]

Next? Go launch Nike+ on Android and iOS side by side. For example.
Literally every app is worse on Android than on iOS. It's basically like watching a toddler play ball and then seeing the Yankees.

Not the most important one, the web browser.

 

[polyh3dron]

Not the most important one, the web browser.

If uglier rendered text = better, than sure.

 

[virtuoso88]

If uglier rendered text = better, than sure.

We're talking about speed and I guess android just replaces the specified fonts with whatever it wants right?

 

[mescalineeyes]

Not the most important one, the web browser.

I am really partial to Safari but the stock JB browser is perfect.

Spoiler

except for the font thing.

 

[Marty Chinn]

It's not only about speed. I am talking about UX.
But yeah, most apps are slower on Android, even if they launch faster due to the good hardware they're on.

If iOS isn't really much beyond an app launcher, and you both launch the same app, is the UX really that different for an identical app?