Mass Effect 3: Leviathan Trailer [Out Now]

HP_Wuvcraft said:
Well, the Leviathan explanation of a Reaper's purpose makes loads more sense. This should have been the MacGuffin.

BioWare's strategy with this game has been all kinds of fucked up.
Click to expand...

I still think it's stupid in the context of the way you've interacted with Reapers in the past (eg: dialogue with Sovereign), but it's something in the face of nothing, and that something is believable and understandable in the context of Mass Effect 3's plot arc.

For those who want to know know how Leviathan explains the Reapers:
the Leviathans were the first dominant species in the galaxy. Every other species was subservient, worshipping the Leviathans as essentially gods. As these species evolved, they eventually created machines that would wipe them out. The Leviathans got tired of trying to micromanage dumb species constantly wiping themselves out, and instead developed a babysitter AI (the Catalyst) to watch over the numerous species of the galaxy. The AI's goal was simple to ensure organic life was preserved.

The AI experimented with solutions to this 'problem', such as guiding organic species along a 'safe' controlled technological path (relays, and so on), but for whatever reason deemed preservation of organic material through 'harvesting' into great singular creatures was the best solution under given circumstances. The first species 'harvested' were the Leviathans, and thus was created Harbinger, the first of the Reapers.

Ever since the original harvest the Catalyst has been using the galaxy as an experimental test bed to find a better solution to the 'problem' of organic preservation, using Harbinger to lead the charge and harvest sentient species in the galaxy for reasons. This is why the cycle is stuck in a continuous loop: as part of it's original programming, the Catalyst is looking for a 'solution' as organic preservation, and it calculates harvests/Reapers is the best it has.

As said though, this still doesn't excuse the heinously stupid end game 'solution' to the 'problem', the 'problem' that doesn't actually exist and instead contradicts everything you know. Leviathan puts more pieces of the puzzle together but the end picture is still a big turd.
 
EatChildren said:
Leviathan puts more pieces of the puzzle together but the end picture is still a big turd.
Click to expand...

What's an even bigger turd is putting these puzzle pieces behind a DLC pay wall. I'm sorry, but that's just another one of Bioware's many slaps to the faces of the fans of this series.

Hey, at least it can now finally put to rest all the "artistic integrity" bullshit of the ending.

What Bioware doesn't get is the more they explain about the Reapers, their origins, and their motivations, the less we actually give a damn about them. They've definitely failed to realize "less is more" in this case.
 
sflufan said:
What's an even bigger turd is putting these puzzle pieces behind a DLC pay wall. I'm sorry, but that's just another one of Bioware's many slaps to the faces of the fans of this series.

Hey, at least it can now finally put to rest all the "artistic integrity" bullshit of the ending.

What Bioware doesn't get is the more they explain about the Reapers, their origins, and their motivations, the less we actually give a damn about them. They've definitely failed to realize "less is more" in this case.
Click to expand...

At the same time, it's fluff and has no impact on the actual game. My guess is that they make stuff up as they go along. They need some kind of story hook? Here you go, some kind of hokey pokey story about the first "Reapers".

Putting it up behind DLC is kind of fucked up, but since I doubt the concept of the Leviathan was even there at launch, I kind of don't care.
 
Nothing has ever had impact on the 'game'. The fluff has impact on the story. That's the only thing that has ever been impacted by anything. The ending doesn't change either, but that's mostly the point. It's fluff/padding that fleshes out the reasoning of why the ending gets to where it is, but the ending itself is still awful. As long as the contrived and unconvincing excuse of
inevitable synthetic/organic war
remains, so too will the ending forever be a turd.

And for all the faults of BioWare in this game, I still firmly believe EA rushed the project. Playing through it a second time now, it's a big game yet there's clearly so many rough spots in the design, assets, story and everything else. It stinks of a project that wasn't given room to breath, and though the ending may have ended up the same, I think there's a chance it would have been different if there was no pressure to 'get it done'.

But that's a debate for another thread at another time.
 
I have to say that the DLC is staged almost like a movie, so anyone watching it on YT wouldn't miss anything, especially not combat-wise. :p

Overall, it was alright. I didn't like how inexplicably sudden those
orbs were everywhere you looked
, or that
those paintings were conveniently placed in a mountain side.
You'd imagine they'd have faded over millions of years, and that the planet's tectonic plates would have shifted enough times. :p

Besides that lazy plot driver, the rest of the story was fine. The origin story is actually acceptable, but now makes the end ever so flawed. It could possibly make those who deemed the Catalyst argumentatively immutable, eat crow. After all, vent kid did tell us that its solution was flawed -- that's why Shepard was there at the end.

Lastly,
I liked that there wasn't a hologram. We were treated like adults! Being inside Shepard's mind was a much better presentation than the ending.
Again, it makes the ending worse, because we got stuck with a stupid kid who didn't mean anything to us, who tells us that we have to do what it says.


Vire said:
Question: Has anyone replayed the ending after beating Leviathan?

Any noticeable changes?
Click to expand...
I doubt this DLC would affect the ending in any way.
 
EatChildren said:
I still think it's stupid in the context of the way you've interacted with Reapers in the past (eg: dialogue with Sovereign), but it's something in the face of nothing, and that something is believable and understandable in the context of Mass Effect 3's plot arc.

For those who want to know know how Leviathan explains the Reapers:
the Leviathans were the first dominant species in the galaxy. Every other species was subservient, worshipping the Leviathans as essentially gods. As these species evolved, they eventually created machines that would wipe them out. The Leviathans got tired of trying to micromanage dumb species constantly wiping themselves out, and instead developed a babysitter AI (the Catalyst) to watch over the numerous species of the galaxy. The AI's goal was simple to ensure organic life was preserved.

The AI experimented with solutions to this 'problem', such as guiding organic species along a 'safe' controlled technological path (relays, and so on), but for whatever reason deemed preservation of organic material through 'harvesting' into great singular creatures was the best solution under given circumstances. The first species 'harvested' were the Leviathans, and thus was created Harbinger, the first of the Reapers.

Ever since the original harvest the Catalyst has been using the galaxy as an experimental test bed to find a better solution to the 'problem' of organic preservation, using Harbinger to lead the charge and harvest sentient species in the galaxy for reasons. This is why the cycle is stuck in a continuous loop: as part of it's original programming, the Catalyst is looking for a 'solution' as organic preservation, and it calculates harvests/Reapers is the best it has.

As said though, this still doesn't excuse the heinously stupid end game 'solution' to the 'problem', the 'problem' that doesn't actually exist and instead contradicts everything you know. Leviathan puts more pieces of the puzzle together but the end picture is still a big turd.
Click to expand...

Well, at least the plot finally admits that the Catalyst is an
AI gone berserk
, which the original plot didn't even imply (although IIRC, this was finally implied in the extended ending). But it's nice to hear it stated outright. It makes me feel better for choosing the "Destroy" ending for all of my play throughs. Sure there are casualties from "Destroy" choice but what war is not without casualties?
 
EatChildren said:
I still think it's stupid in the context of the way you've interacted with Reapers in the past (eg: dialogue with Sovereign), but it's something in the face of nothing, and that something is believable and understandable in the context of Mass Effect 3's plot arc.

For those who want to know know how Leviathan explains the Reapers:
the Leviathans were the first dominant species in the galaxy. Every other species was subservient, worshipping the Leviathans as essentially gods. As these species evolved, they eventually created machines that would wipe them out. The Leviathans got tired of trying to micromanage dumb species constantly wiping themselves out, and instead developed a babysitter AI (the Catalyst) to watch over the numerous species of the galaxy. The AI's goal was simple to ensure organic life was preserved.

The AI experimented with solutions to this 'problem', such as guiding organic species along a 'safe' controlled technological path (relays, and so on), but for whatever reason deemed preservation of organic material through 'harvesting' into great singular creatures was the best solution under given circumstances. The first species 'harvested' were the Leviathans, and thus was created Harbinger, the first of the Reapers.

Ever since the original harvest the Catalyst has been using the galaxy as an experimental test bed to find a better solution to the 'problem' of organic preservation, using Harbinger to lead the charge and harvest sentient species in the galaxy for reasons. This is why the cycle is stuck in a continuous loop: as part of it's original programming, the Catalyst is looking for a 'solution' as organic preservation, and it calculates harvests/Reapers is the best it has.

As said though, this still doesn't excuse the heinously stupid end game 'solution' to the 'problem', the 'problem' that doesn't actually exist and instead contradicts everything you know. Leviathan puts more pieces of the puzzle together but the end picture is still a big turd.
Click to expand...



Ah yes, my mistake.
 
I watched the videos on Youtube and at one point
Leviathan states that reapers are made in Harbinger's image
. Has the
human Reaper
ever been explained?
 
Dr Stabbingworth said:
I watched the videos on Youtube and at one point
Leviathan states that reapers are made in Harbinger's image
. Has the
human Reaper
ever been explained?
Click to expand...

We've known since the end of ME2, all Reapers start by making a larval form of the host species and around that the typical Reaper husk is built, which is why all Reapers generally look the same but are from multiple different species across millions of years.
 
Still in the middle of this DLC - at the asteroid, and I have no idea how Sheoard can't
tell these motherfuckers are indoctrinated. Even with the first guy Shepard looked a bit daft, but again?! At least the people in the Arrival DLC played it off better.
 
I wish Bioware had
pushed the "Star-brat is a an AI and AI can be wrong angle" in vanilla ME3. You could have at least debated the issue with the AI. :|

So much missed potential.
 
RedSwirl said:
Still in the middle of this DLC - at the asteroid, and I have no idea how Sheoard can't
tell these motherfuckers are indoctrinated. Even with the first guy Shepard looked a bit daft, but again?! At least the people in the Arrival DLC played it off better.
Click to expand...

Shepard has shown plenty of times across all 3 games how much of an idiot he/she is.
 
Dr Stabbingworth said:
Huh, I totally missed that. Thanks
Click to expand...

By "we have known from the end of ME2" I just meant that is when Edi tells you it is a larva, the developers themselves told us that all Reapers are built the same way and that they end up looking the same depending on what sort of Reaper type they get made into.
 
RedSwirl said:
Still in the middle of this DLC - at the asteroid, and I have no idea how Sheoard can't
tell these motherfuckers are indoctrinated. Even with the first guy Shepard looked a bit daft, but again?! At least the people in the Arrival DLC played it off better.
Click to expand...

I appeased my frustration of this by assuming
Shepard knew they were indoctrinated but didn't believe the source to a standard Reaper source, and thus was wondering where it was coming from.
 
That ending had the potential to be so much cooler than it was. Glad I YT'ed it and didn't waste any money.

Edit: Ha, called it. Only thing it does is give you more meaningless EMS points. GG Bioware.
 
The DLC was fun, it was great to play through it and story wise, whatever. It makes sense in most regards to the ME3's ending. The desert level was fun and fantastic. Along with the meteor mission, that was so eery.
 
EatChildren said:
I appeased my frustration of this by assuming
Shepard knew they were indoctrinated but didn't believe the source to a standard Reaper source, and thus was wondering where it was coming from.
Click to expand...

Okay, so after finishing that section, it's apparent that
this wasn't standard indoctrination. For one thing it isn't permanent. Also, even after Shepard realizes they were under control, they don't even assume it was a case of indoctrination. It's like BioWare mistakenly made the symptoms look too much like indoctrination by mistake, making players instantly think that's what it is while everyone in-universe doesn't suspect as much.
 
EatChildren said:
I still think it's stupid in the context of the way you've interacted with Reapers in the past (eg: dialogue with Sovereign), but it's something in the face of nothing, and that something is believable and understandable in the context of Mass Effect 3's plot arc.

For those who want to know know how Leviathan explains the Reapers:
the Leviathans were the first dominant species in the galaxy. Every other species was subservient, worshipping the Leviathans as essentially gods. As these species evolved, they eventually created machines that would wipe them out. The Leviathans got tired of trying to micromanage dumb species constantly wiping themselves out, and instead developed a babysitter AI (the Catalyst) to watch over the numerous species of the galaxy. The AI's goal was simple to ensure organic life was preserved.

The AI experimented with solutions to this 'problem', such as guiding organic species along a 'safe' controlled technological path (relays, and so on), but for whatever reason deemed preservation of organic material through 'harvesting' into great singular creatures was the best solution under given circumstances. The first species 'harvested' were the Leviathans, and thus was created Harbinger, the first of the Reapers.

Ever since the original harvest the Catalyst has been using the galaxy as an experimental test bed to find a better solution to the 'problem' of organic preservation, using Harbinger to lead the charge and harvest sentient species in the galaxy for reasons. This is why the cycle is stuck in a continuous loop: as part of it's original programming, the Catalyst is looking for a 'solution' as organic preservation, and it calculates harvests/Reapers is the best it has.

As said though, this still doesn't excuse the heinously stupid end game 'solution' to the 'problem', the 'problem' that doesn't actually exist and instead contradicts everything you know. Leviathan puts more pieces of the puzzle together but the end picture is still a big turd.
Click to expand...

God, this is such a clusterfuck of bad writing and planning.
 
EatChildren said:
I still think it's stupid in the context of the way you've interacted with Reapers in the past (eg: dialogue with Sovereign), but it's something in the face of nothing, and that something is believable and understandable in the context of Mass Effect 3's plot arc.

For those who want to know know how Leviathan explains the Reapers:
the Leviathans were the first dominant species in the galaxy. Every other species was subservient, worshipping the Leviathans as essentially gods. As these species evolved, they eventually created machines that would wipe them out. The Leviathans got tired of trying to micromanage dumb species constantly wiping themselves out, and instead developed a babysitter AI (the Catalyst) to watch over the numerous species of the galaxy. The AI's goal was simple to ensure organic life was preserved.

The AI experimented with solutions to this 'problem', such as guiding organic species along a 'safe' controlled technological path (relays, and so on), but for whatever reason deemed preservation of organic material through 'harvesting' into great singular creatures was the best solution under given circumstances. The first species 'harvested' were the Leviathans, and thus was created Harbinger, the first of the Reapers.

Ever since the original harvest the Catalyst has been using the galaxy as an experimental test bed to find a better solution to the 'problem' of organic preservation, using Harbinger to lead the charge and harvest sentient species in the galaxy for reasons. This is why the cycle is stuck in a continuous loop: as part of it's original programming, the Catalyst is looking for a 'solution' as organic preservation, and it calculates harvests/Reapers is the best it has.

As said though, this still doesn't excuse the heinously stupid end game 'solution' to the 'problem', the 'problem' that doesn't actually exist and instead contradicts everything you know. Leviathan puts more pieces of the puzzle together but the end picture is still a big turd.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the write-up, $10 saved.
 
This dlc should have been in The original game. It looked great and was on par with the highs of the series.

Story wise it really adds nothing that you couldn't have put together from the original cut but it's nice to get more details if you enjoy the lore.
 
Could someone explain this to me whose beaten it? Some of the story beats here are a little absurd.

So I keep running into these orb artifacts all over the place. Why are they only now suddenly showing up? Seems awful convenient... What's the difference between these artifacts and the artifacts that were previously used for indoctrination?

Also why the hell does Shepard act like he's never seen indoctrination before? Seems odd. Plus the fact that you just waltz into the mining bay, bypassing doors and stealing security codes and yet no one bates an eyelash? Not very sneaky... If Leviathon didn't want the crew there why didn't he make the people attack Shepard? Why not have Shepard knock out the first people he meets at a gate out front and then dress in their uniform to act like a member of the mining facility?

Besides some of the really silly story points I'm enjoying the environments. Although visiting the same lab THREE times is a little tiresome. Like seriously? The first time is was fine, second okay, THIRD?

If someone could elaborate on the spoilers I posted above, I'd be grateful.
 
Your first question will be answered in the DLC. Also because of reasons.

The second point is also because of reasons.

And by reasons I mean contrivances.
 
I skip reading this thread because wary of spoilers. I finally bought ME3 a few days ago because of Origin 50% sale, is this dlc happen in the middle of ME3 3, so I should probably just get it now, or should I beat ME3 first than get this dlc after I beat the whole game?
 
Callibretto said:
I skip reading this thread because wary of spoilers. I finally bought ME3 a few days ago because of Origin 50% sale, is this dlc happen in the middle of ME3 3, so I should probably just get it now, or should I beat ME3 first than get this dlc after I beat the whole game?
Click to expand...

If you want to play the DLC you should do so before you reach the Mass Effect 3 end game.
 
Federico_612 said:
A character being stupid so that the writer mustn't work hard is something of greek epic tragedy, not of modern writing.
Click to expand...
Whut

Actually, Shepard's denseness did bother me, maybe I'm just being too hard.

EatChildren said:
And by reasons I mean contrivances.
Click to expand...
B-I-N-G-O.

Because this was a DLC, they couldn't and didn't and wouldn't be able to evenly disperse some of those
orbs
to other parts of the game to tie it with the rest of the story/series.

Even Leviathan itself was problematic.
We had never encountered one before, yet it was so easy to track.

If those artifacts are so rare, why are they everywhere!? Who were the people that brought in that ship at the end of the game, where Shep gets the mech? I didn't read the notes/codex.
 
I just finished it in almost exactly 3 hours. It was meatier than I expected, worth the $10 in my mind.

Ending controversy aside it felt really good to spend some time in the Mass Effect universe again. I hope that rumored Omega DLC actually happens.
 
So I just beat it.

So that ending made up for some of the issues I noted with the story earlier. And holy shit, that seemed kinda important? Surprised this was in DLC.
 
Eh, this looks interesting but I hate DLC that is pre-post game. I actually thought the extended stuff was okay, but with this DLC do I have to reload a pre-Earth save again?
 
Vire said:
So I just beat it.

So that ending made up for some of the issues I noted with the story earlier. And holy shit, that seemed kinda important? Surprised this was in DLC.
Click to expand...

It did seemed very important. But then they're nowhere to be seen at the end and we still use the Crucible to deal with the Reapers.

One more year of development could have changed a lot if this was included in the main game sadly.

It's a nice DLC, but it should have been part of the main game so that Leviathans could have an important role in the last mission, like they should.
 
HP_Wuvcraft said:
Was I the only one disappointed by the fact
that there were more than one?
Click to expand...

They sure came out of nowhere. All this time you talk
to only one of them, and all of a sudden two more come out without saying a word when you're about to get back to the surface.
 
Bisnic said:
They sure came out of nowhere. All this time you talk
to only one of them, and all of a sudden two more come out without saying a word when you're about to get back to the surface.
Click to expand...

It sure made them seem far less powerful and a lot more cowardly. Also, now we've got two dead races just chillin' in the current story.
 
Ok so just to verify if you have a save after the end game can you play the DLC? Would this require another playthrough to make it fit in the story?
 
I really liked this and sorely wished that it was included in the original game. It was the kind of mission that ME3 sorely lacked: one that was tiered and had hubs that would slow the pace of the mission down and allow you to explore and look at stuff in detail. You even return to one hub area repeatedly, and each time there's new stuff to do.

I was surprised that there was so much to it. A new Citadel area, that being 1 of 2 hub areas, and a surprising amount of new dialogue -- including new banter from your squad if you take the time to speak to them during the intersticial returns to the Normandy between each segment of the mission.

I appreciate that they attempted to spice up combat on a few ocassions, though the effectiveness of each occurrence varied:

1.
Guiding and guarding the repair droid during combat on the mining asteroid
-- this battle was rather unpleasant because of the confusing environment layout. I didn't know what I could or couldn't vault over.
2.
Copious amounts of exploding barrel thingies on the cliff-side dig-site. It was fun starting a chain of explosions, though it didn't take out the Reaper forces as easily as I thought they should have. Then again, I was playing on Insanity.
-- I really liked this environment.
3.
Inserting battery cells into the drowned spaceship in order to access the Titan mech was okay, but it was playing in the mech that was more fun.

I thought Bioware did a good job with the places you visited during this mission. Each planet was visually interesting in different ways, especially the excavation site.

This mission, though still exceptional even when experienced by itself 6 months after finishing the game the first time, is the kind of stuff that really would have elevated ME3 if included originally. Though it didn't change the ending in any meaningful way, what glimpses into the Reapers history offered by Leviathan was revealing in regards to the nature of the Catalyst. Ultimately though, it's not the reason to play this. The variety is. It reminded me a lot of ME2 and its missions, especially the dlc stuff that came afterward.

$10 well spent. Took me about 3 hours.
 
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