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Deleted member 102362
Unconfirmed Member
Those power/control beliefs are still stereotypes, many of them rooted in violent, medieval histories (especially banking).
Both.
Antisemitism a problem that needs to be fixed
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polyh3dron
Banned
Keep fighting the good fight, LostVoyager.
Neko Mimi Mode
Member
There are some radical elements in hareidi (ultra-Orthodox) Jewry that oppose the state of Israel for religious reasons; specifically, the three oaths.
I'm Jewish (by birth, culture, etc.), and my own experience with antisemitism in real life has been literally nonexistent. Of course, I've lived in South Florida and Southern California all my life, and don't look particularly Jewish, so perhaps I've just been lucky.
It's far less a problem than...well...basically any other kind of minority persecution in the United States.
It's far less a problem than...well...basically any other kind of minority persecution in the United States.
Is Anti-Semitism really that big of a problem? I've yet to meet a person in my life who has seemed like one or anyone that's denied the Holocaust. Even conspiracy guys who say 911 was an inside job don't even deny it.
Honestly Sikh people are faaaar worse off in today's world. Some people see a turban and they immediately act different all of a sudden. Pretty sad how they get associated with Terrorist's when they are so peaceful.
Honestly Sikh people are faaaar worse off in today's world. Some people see a turban and they immediately act different all of a sudden. Pretty sad how they get associated with Terrorist's when they are so peaceful.
Neko Mimi Mode
Member
Thanks, I will check it out! I also found this video that explains a lot:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zA5is7IcEqA#t=00m19s
Freezie KO
Banned
Your premise is flawed.
There is no "Jewish agenda." Jews are individuals just like anybody else.
To say that there is a "Jewish agenda" is the same anti-Semitic fear-mongering bullshit that has been around since the Middle Ages. This myth of the Jewish agenda is the same one repeated throughout history. That the Jews are secretive and have their own agenda, which often runs contrary to the host country (which inevitably is the powerful majority).
The very ideas that you are proposing are the ones that motivate ghettos and pogroms. It's the language of Nazis because the Jews' "agenda" was supposedly against Germany, the host country, as a whole. And it's the essential premise of The Elder Protocols of Zion.
That you don't even realize the insidious hatred in your premise is, honestly, frightening. That you don't recognize the inherent bias in sites like "Real Jew News" is chilling.
Again, there is no "Jewish agenda." Like all people, Jews are individuals. Sometimes, they are motivated by love, hate, culture, money, politics, and emotion, just like anybody else.
Again, it's absolutely frightening that you would take one woman and suppose she speaks for all Jews.
Jews are individuals. Get off your hate sites and realize this.
Once again, Jews can disagree with each other. Because they're not a monolithic group with a single agenda and opinion.
Where I come from the term for this is 'gyp', derived from gypsie. The first time I heard someone say jewed I was pretty gobsmacked, but then I realized I'd been using just as racist a term all my life.
Well, do you live in Hollywood?
Yes!
Well according to racists you're already a part of it then and you know they're usually pretty trustworthy
I'm not going to get too involved in this thread as I dont want to get banned again. I would just just like to point out that Palestinians are Semites too and they are the ones who are under occupation and had more of their land stolen every day by the state of Israel.
There are also many Jewish people who are also against the apartheid state of Israel and its crimes against the Palestinians. Are they anti semites too?
There are also many Jewish people who are also against the apartheid state of Israel and its crimes against the Palestinians. Are they anti semites too?
Canis lupus
Member
Ive never witnessed antisemitism where I live, I live close to a city with a notable jewish orthodox community and Arab community.
But, since Arabs are also semitic speaking people, can someone be accused of anti-semitism for Arab discrimination?
But, since Arabs are also semitic speaking people, can someone be accused of anti-semitism for Arab discrimination?
onken
Member
The blind hate and ignorance on display here is disgusting.
I'm Jewish as well, but I think this topic is silly. I think LV just picked this Ism so people would have to be on his side.
And as a Jew, I think Israel has a terrible government on par or worse than most other of the awful governments in the region. The way they use Antisemitism for any criticism thrown their was is gross, as is how that government uses the Holocaust constantly for political purposes. The West's (primarily America's) weird guilt protection thing has never made much sense to me. I understand that the West wants an ally in the region for stability, but there has been nothing about Israel that has ever brought stability to the region and America having such a hard on for it only makes thing worse for all parties.
There isn't and shouldn't be anything inherently Antisemetic about having negative views of Israel. It has an objectively shitty government.
I was actually gyped by an actual gypsie taxi driver when I went to Italy. I wasn't aware they hang out at the air port and take tourist who don't know any better on taxi rides and charge them double or triple what the actual Rome city taxis charge you.
Neko Mimi Mode
Member
Oh ya, Neturei Karta supporting Ahmedinijad at the UN last year. YWN posted some rather amusing videos in relation to that.
I don't want to live on this planet anymore.
Nobody thinks all criticism of the Israeli government is grounds for anti-semitism. Singling out the state and people of Israel for criticism and disproportionate expectations however is fairly obvious.
Neko Mimi Mode
Member
Goomba, just stop. You're going to get banned again and you totally deserve it. You're crusading against Israel, the Bible and Jews in the wrong thread.
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Deleted member 102362
Unconfirmed Member
When I learned the origin of "gypped" several years ago, I also made a point of excising it from my conversational vocabulary.
Freezie KO
Banned
Read the thread. This has been brought up.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism#Etymology
1. You come off like a simpleton when using hyperbolic, baiting statements like "apartheid state" to describe complex territorial disputes.
2. Quit the persecution complex. In this thread, the number of people pointing out that they might be called an "anti-Semite" by some straw-man Israel defender vastly exceeds the number of people that would actually call you an anti-Semite for having anti-Israeli views.
3. Anti-Semitism is a genuine thing that can be completely divorced from the Israel/Palestine conflict, yet you felt it necessary to focus on the latter. That really discredits your whining about how others are tying the two together.
TurkishEmperor said:
The term "anti-Semitism" has come to describe anti-Jewish sentiment. If you're genuinely curious about the etymology of the phrase, here's a link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism#Etymology
That the phrase has come to exclude Arabs is not a vast conspiracy. That's how language works sometimes.
I believe most of the "intellectuals" who "deny" the holocaust believe that it happened, but just think that it was a really minor thing. Something I learned recently while watching a seminar on this issue out of curiosity. I think they cite some varying sources of the number of people who were killed (stating that the number was increased very considerably over time), hence that conspiracy. A lot of problems with that IMO, and there are probably some deniers whose views reflect those mentioned in the OP, but I thought I'd mention that that seems to be the official way that they view it. All very weird and offensive regardless
Thanks for your reply, Freezie KO! This topic seems to be very close to your heart. Of course we are all individuals. No need to draw such wild conclusions...
I wasn't talking about any worldwide "Jewish agenda" conspiracy. Word "if" was important part of that sentence and the question "What's wrong with being successful?". By agenda I meant political agendas that every organization has (or they are in a very sorry state).
For example AIPAC:
"The American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC) is a lobbying group that advocates pro-Israel policies to the Congress and Executive Branch of the United States."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Israel_Public_Affairs_Committee
Judging by the US aid to Israel they are very successful in driving their agenda.
I wasn't talking about any worldwide "Jewish agenda" conspiracy. Word "if" was important part of that sentence and the question "What's wrong with being successful?". By agenda I meant political agendas that every organization has (or they are in a very sorry state).
For example AIPAC:
"The American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC) is a lobbying group that advocates pro-Israel policies to the Congress and Executive Branch of the United States."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Israel_Public_Affairs_Committee
Judging by the US aid to Israel they are very successful in driving their agenda.
Freezie KO
Banned
Joel Was Right
Member
I imagine this to be true of many who hold prejudices against groups of people
Palette Swap
Member
I don't think it's a good idea to mix stuff like the Israel-Palestine issues in the OP. That stuff tends to poison any discussion on antisemitism real quick.
I hate whoever created the term antisemitic, instead of just calling it anti-Jewish and avoiding the unnecessary "antisemitism is not only against Jews" crap.
When people say antisemitism they mean hate for Jews. Just install an addon to your browser that changes it to anti-Jew if it troubles you that much.
Also, if anyone doesn't think the Israeli-Arab conflict receives a special amount of attention they're deluding themselves.
In Darfur, 400,000 people died in 5 years. In the Arab world +50,000 people died this year from government crackdowns. That's almost half of the death toll of the ENTIRE Israeli-Arab conflict on ALL sides (including Israelis).
There's a ton of valid criticism to be leveled against Israel, but there is also a ton of hypocrisy that goes with it.
When people say antisemitism they mean hate for Jews. Just install an addon to your browser that changes it to anti-Jew if it troubles you that much.
Also, if anyone doesn't think the Israeli-Arab conflict receives a special amount of attention they're deluding themselves.
In Darfur, 400,000 people died in 5 years. In the Arab world +50,000 people died this year from government crackdowns. That's almost half of the death toll of the ENTIRE Israeli-Arab conflict on ALL sides (including Israelis).
There's a ton of valid criticism to be leveled against Israel, but there is also a ton of hypocrisy that goes with it.
A. Yes, a lot of people think any criticism of the Israeli government is grounds for Antisemitism. Including the Israeli government.
B. I don't single out the Israeli people at all. They just have a shitty government. It's singling out the country in the sense that this thread is about Antisemitism in general, but I don't think people have disproportionate expectations in regards to Israel. Any country acting in the manner that Israel does gets criticized. It is my opinion as a Jew that the Israeli state as it is currently governed is a disservice to and embarrassment to the Jewish people. I feel bad for Survivors and those who worked in good faith to create and secure a Jewish homeland. It got fucked up hard along the way. Military people and politicos completely hijacked the whole idea. It's gross. As it stands, the Israeli government is no better than all the other governments in the region that America and the West take such issue with.
Yeah, when I found out what gypped meant, I was pretty dismayed. I've tried to stop using it but it still slips out sometimes. I need to get better at that.
Neko Mimi Mode
Member
Ok.
Your vitriol against Israel is irrelevant to this thread. That said, I would caution you to keep the bullshit to a minimum. Israel is considerably better than any other country in the region on issues such as women's rights, homosexuality, freedom of speech/press, support for 3rd World countries etc.
Regardless, double standards and unparalleled expectations for Israel is a recognized form of anti-semitism.
EDIT:
I just want to say, I somewhat agree with the premise re this thread. How inevitable was it that a thread on the need to end anti-semitism would turn into an Israel-bait, semantics argument or flat out denial anti-semitism even exists?
I think 400,000 people being slaughtered is worth slightly more air-time than Jews building houses in the West Bank, don't you?
I don't see how it matters? In an ideal world we would give the conflicts in Africa the same attention as we give the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Not switch our focus from one conflict to another.
It probably gets more air time over all where I live. And it's not like they run a story that is "NEWSFLASH: THIS JUST IN - 400 000 PEOPLE KILLED OVER NIGHT IN DARFUR". It's an ongoing conflict and the media report about it continuously. Just like they do with the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
Sadly I think that Darfur being ignored is due to prejudice, just not anti semitic prejudice in that the media decided to give its foreign affairs sections over to how naughty people are being in Israel rather than in Africa. I think it is being ignored for the same reasons as that missing 18 month year old boy is being ignored
Joel Was Right
Member
One of the earliest forms of antisemitism I encountered was in my English Literature class when reading The Merchant of Venice
Neko Mimi Mode
Member
No doubt.
1. I don't believe Jews building homes in the West Bank is evil.
2. Even if I did, I still wouldn't give it equal air-time to 400,000 innocent people being slaughtered in Darfur, or 20,000+ in Syria or any other crime against humanity.
Joel Was Right
Member
Eh, I dunno, accusing Merchant of Venice of being highly anti semitic (if that is what you were doing and not referring to classmates/teachers) is, while true on a basic level, missing the point of the play. The actions of the Christians in the play are no less reprehensible despite ostensibly being the good guys
DonasaurusRex
Online Ho Champ
Im gonna tell you this straight up.... as a black person..those numbers for people that have anti semetic views...is low. College on a big campus and floors full of people thousands to a dorm...i was SHOCKED. I was always under the impression that since they were on the brink you dont even comment on anything jewish/holocaust, just show respect like i would want for my ancestors that had to deal with lynchings/jim crow/discrimination etc. These kids were letting the jew jokes fly like they were knock knock jokes. Which made me wonder how much they heard that shit growing up. Even if their defense is oh just jokes, you gotta wonder how much of this stereotyping is going on that it disseminates down to the children THAT prevalently. And unfortunately i just heard a story about a jewish kid getting jumped at my old school. Its messed up.
Black people may be the most negatively stereotyped race , but man, mother fucka's wanna kill y'all , damn. By far the most hated .
Guerrillas in the Mist
Member
Historically, Jews got into banking because many European nations did not allow them to enter most trades and professions. Banking was still seen as a bit iffy at that time in most Christian nations (Usury), so many got into that line of work.
So amusingly, the anti-semitic stereotype of the "Jewish Banker" was brought about by anti-semites.
So amusingly, the anti-semitic stereotype of the "Jewish Banker" was brought about by anti-semites.
I will say one thing, because I want people who don't know any better to maybe read it.
Antisemitism is not the same as criticizing Israel.
But criticizing Israel can and absolutely has in plenty of cases been the way to channel antisemitic thoughts and feelings.
You know the line "The audience doesn't always know when they're being lied to, but they know when they're being told the truth"?
It's the same thing.
You just feel when there's anti-Semitic feeling underneath something.
Antisemitism is not the same as criticizing Israel.
But criticizing Israel can and absolutely has in plenty of cases been the way to channel antisemitic thoughts and feelings.
You know the line "The audience doesn't always know when they're being lied to, but they know when they're being told the truth"?
It's the same thing.
You just feel when there's anti-Semitic feeling underneath something.
Joel Was Right
Member
You don't need to isolate Shylock as the villain to recognise his portrayal as a money hungry loan shark, in addition to his characterisation as "the Jew", invokes antisemitic stereotypes.
Yes it does and I agree. Shylock is an anti semitic portrayal of a Jewish character and I think he was intended to be but look at the actions of the Christians in the piece. Shylock is Borat
The point here is to focus discussion. Of course you are correct, though
teruterubozu
Member
Yes, but LostVoyager is on a crusade to name every disenfranchised group, so give him time, he'll get there.
Surprised he hasn't got to people with ginger hair and those people that try to mug you for charity donations when you walk down the street.
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