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[Haly]

My first thought was "a lot of limited fodder".

Also given what we've seen so far, my dreams of a GW populate deck are looking slim. It's just too narrow an effect to be consistent.

Selesnya Guildmage, however, is surprisingly good. Repeatable instant speed token maker? Don't mind if I do!

(Considering the ability of the Selesnya guildleader, I imagine WOTC envisioned a populate deck built around getting massive amounts of 2/2 and 3/3 tokens while stalling for time using the life gain and cards like the Populate Fog. But it's just way too slow.)

 

[Hex]

My first thought was "a lot of limited fodder".

Also given what we've seen so far, my dreams of a GW populate deck are looking slim. It's just too narrow an effect to be consistent.

Selesnya Guildmage, however, is surprisingly good. Repeatable instant speed token maker? Don't mind if I do!

(Considering the ability of the Selesnya guildleader, I imagine WOTC envisioned a populate deck built around getting massive amounts of 2/2 and 3/3 tokens while stalling for time using the life gain and cards like the Populate Fog. But it's just way too slow.)

Between Garruk making beasts or wolves, Entreat the Angels, and others a populate deck is not bad and can be done.
Along with Thragtusk and the GW make a 3/3 centaur token.
Mix in blue with drake tokens and the merfolk legend and things can get interesting and also gives you the ability to tap all of their creatures and control a little.

 

[f0rk]

Between Garruk making beasts or wolves, Entreat the Angels, and others a populate deck is not bad and can be done.
Along with Thragtusk and the GW make a 3/3 centaur token.
Mix in blue with drake tokens and the merfolk legend and things can get interesting and also gives you the ability to tap all of their creatures and control a little.

The available tokens aren't the problem, it's the cards with the ability not being efficient enough to be competitive in constructed.

 

[Haly]

I think wizard decided that, in the average case scenario, Populate will be targeting a 2/2 or 3/3 token, so they balanced around that. The problem is getting those tokens out consistently is a huge hassle. Unless you get the 3/3 Centaur maker on your opening hand, you're not going to have a decent populate target until T4 or later. Until then, all your populate cards are basically overcosted.

 

[Hex]

The available tokens aren't the problem, it's the cards with the ability not being efficient enough to be competitive in constructed.

True.
Though I am looking forward to seeing the end of ponder, vapor snag, gutshot, mana leak , primeval, and various other irritations and hopefully creativity may hit again.

 

[ultron87]

In Magical Christmas Land you copy your Geist of St. Traft tokens.

 

[Haly]

In Magical Christmas Land you copy your Geist of St. Traft tokens.

Bant Geist Populate?

It's so crazy it just might work!

T2 Guildmage
T3 Geist
T4 Turn Geist sideways and POPULATE.

 

[Hex]

In Magical Christmas Land you copy your Geist of St. Traft tokens.

Would make for interesting rules loops.

 

[Keru_Shiri]

Hmmm, I'm kinda liking Rakdos Cackler. It's no Goblin Guide, but a 2/2 for 1 that can't block seems pretty solid.

 

[narcosis219]

Would make for interesting rules loops.

You mean about the exiling of tokens? The copies won't be exiled because they aren't the original token. They don't come in attacking either

 

[Negator]

Deathrite Shaman seems insane, I think it's going to see a lot of play

 

[Sinatar]

Some kind of Bant populate deck might be possible with:

I already use that in my durdly G/U deck to make instant speed thragtusks. =p

 

[Sinatar]

So our lunch game today saw one of my opponents play this little combo:

+

In a mono red deck. On one game he had 2 scythes on one elder and shot me for 30. Nuttiness.

 

[ajf009]

Here's a wild idea for a deck a friend and I just came up with. And I'm trademarking it.

4 elvish piper
4 llanowar elves
4 ring of valkas
4 wordly tutor
4 Asceticism
3 emrakul
3 progenitus
3 Ulamog
3 kozilek
1 red, white, black, & green praetor
24 forests

Or switch out the Progenitus with 3 It That Betrays, if it all goes well this is a 4th turn Emrakul with haste

 

[ZZMitch]

Yay, Giant Growth!

I thought the same thing lol.

Very pleased.

 

[OnPoint]

Here's a wild idea for a deck a friend and I just came up with. And I'm trademarking it.

4 elvish piper
4 llanowar elves
4 ring of valkas
4 wordly tutor
4 Asceticism
3 emrakul
3 progenitus
3 Ulamog
3 kozilek
1 red, white, black, & green praetor
24 forests

Or switch out the Progenitus with 3 It That Betrays, if it all goes well this is a 4th turn Emrakul with haste

Why the ring? Why not Lightning Greaves or Swiftfoot Boots?

 

[Sinatar]

Why the ring? Why not Lightning Greaves or Swiftfoot Boots?

Yea there are better options for giving immediate haste then the red ring.

 

[zethren]

Some kind of Bant populate deck might be possible with:

I already use that in my durdly G/U deck to make instant speed thragtusks. =p

Yup. I am for sure running a Bant list once RTR hits. I already have all of the duals necessary save 3 more glacial fortresses an any of the RTR lands of course.

 

[ajf009]

Why the ring? Why not Lightning Greaves or Swiftfoot Boots?

Shit youre right! I don't know the ring just what came to mind first, lightning greaves would definitely be better

 

[WanderingWind]

Time to proxy up the rest of the B/G zombies and my new Frites. Mind Sculpt is a FANTASTIC graveyard enabler that pairs very well with Thought Scour.

 

[f0rk]

Mind Sculpt isn't good in Reanimator, neither is Thought Scour. The only reason to have blue in the deck is if you are playing Tracker's Instinct.

 

[WanderingWind]

Mind Sculpt isn't good in Reanimator, neither is Thought Scour. The only reason to have blue in the deck is if you are playing Tracker's Instinct.

I will respectfully have to disagree. There are 2 major problems when running reanimator. Getting cards from your deck into your graveyard and getting rid of cards in your hand. Blue excels at the first. Mind Sculpt gives you great results for very little mana, same with Thought Scour, with the obvious benefit of the card draw at the end.

Now, this is where the second issue crops up majorly with blue. Right now (as far as I can tell) there is no reliable way to get what you draw into the graveyard. After extensive playtesting, the W/U/B version is still inferior to the B/R/G version, simply due to the looting in red. I found that mulch is great for the latter, but mostly as a graveyard enabler. You don't need all that mana - you just need enough mana to cast things Borderland Ranger and (obv) Unburial Rites.

In fact, you almost never want creature cards in your hand (unless they're super cheap) for either deck. Tracker's Instinct is a definite bad fit for either deck.

 

[Sinatar]

I will respectfully have to disagree. There are 2 major problems when running reanimator. Getting cards from your deck into your graveyard and getting rid of cards in your hand. Blue excels at the first. Mind Sculpt gives you great results for very little mana, same with Thought Scour, with the obvious benefit of the card draw at the end.

Now, this is where the second issue crops up majorly with blue. Right now (as far as I can tell) there is no reliable way to get what you draw into the graveyard. After extensive playtesting, the W/U/B version is still inferior to the B/R/G version, simply due to the looting in red. I found that mulch is great for the latter, but mostly as a graveyard enabler. You don't need all that mana - you just need enough mana to cast things Borderland Ranger and (obv) Unburial Rites.

In fact, you almost never want creature cards in your hand (unless they're super cheap) for either deck. Tracker's Instinct is a definite bad fit for either deck.

I've had a fair amount of success with this reanimator build.

I should replace slagwurm with something better but other then that it's solid.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

Faithless Looting and Mulch are generally good enough to get you there. Tracker's Instincts is almost never run in Frites, but it is often run in Splinterfright since that's a deck that actually plays its creatures and uses its graveyard as a bizarre anthem effect.

 

[f0rk]

I will respectfully have to disagree. There are 2 major problems when running reanimator. Getting cards from your deck into your graveyard and getting rid of cards in your hand. Blue excels at the first. Mind Sculpt gives you great results for very little mana, same with Thought Scour, with the obvious benefit of the card draw at the end.

Now, this is where the second issue crops up majorly with blue. Right now (as far as I can tell) there is no reliable way to get what you draw into the graveyard. After extensive playtesting, the W/U/B version is still inferior to the B/R/G version, simply due to the looting in red. I found that mulch is great for the latter, but mostly as a graveyard enabler. You don't need all that mana - you just need enough mana to cast things Borderland Ranger and (obv) Unburial Rites.

In fact, you almost never want creature cards in your hand (unless they're super cheap) for either deck. Tracker's Instinct is a definite bad fit for either deck.

Faithless Looting, Mulch, Grisly Salvage and even Wild Guess all do so much more than anything in blue with colours that are actually relevant. Brad Nelson and Gerry Thompson have been putting out some great RtR brew content over the last couple of weeks including a playtest video with B/W/G with Thragtusk and a R/B/W list with more removal instead of mana dorks. Both of them look pretty good, and way better than anything with blue in it.

Sinatar I think you have a few too many Unburial Rites targets. You should either go all in on the Glory's Rise plan or not bother with as many humans and get more Pilgrim's / Elves.

 

[WanderingWind]

I've had a fair amount of success with this reanimator build.

I should replace slagwurm with something better but other then that it's solid.

My B/R/G version is almost exactly the same, but with Elesh instead of the wurm, 2x Cathedral Sanctifier instead of 2 bird, Avacyn instead of Gisela, Gristlebrand instead of Monstrosity and 2 desperate ravings instead of the O-Ring.

Faithless Looting, Mulch, Grisly Salvage and even Wild Guess all do so much more than anything in blue with colours that are actually relevant. Brad Nelson and Gerry Thompson have been putting out some great RtR brew content over the last couple of weeks including a playtest video with B/W/G with Thragtusk and a R/B/W list with more removal instead of mana dorks. Both of them look pretty good, and way better than anything with blue in it.
.

Faithless looting, yes. That was the point I was making. If there was a great looting ability in std blue, it would be very useful. I strongly dislike Wild Guess type effects. Randomness is the death of precise decks like this. Mulch, when broken down to it, is great for green graveyard enabler. But if you're hurting for mana in this deck, you've already lost. So, all it really ends up being most of the time is a graveyard enabler. Which thought scour does much better, obviously.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

Mulch lets you fill your graveyard, but it also lets you run a few fewer lands and still make your drops. I often run 20-21 lands plus Avacyn's Pilgrim in my Human/Glory's Rise reanimator deck.

 

[f0rk]

Read Wild Guess again

And Mulch goes deeper in more relevant colours and a land is still a drawn card as divisionbyzorro said. Being in blue just for Thought Scour is asking for trouble, especially with Birds rotating.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

Oh man, I just saw an awesome black common for limited in the spoilers.

Stab Wound 2B
Enchantment - Aura
Enchant Creature

Enchanted creature gets -2/-2.
At the beginning of enchanted creature's controller's upkeep, that player loses 2 life.


I can't wait to put that on some 3/3 unleashed creature and just watch my opponent squirm.

 

[WanderingWind]

Read Wild Guess again

And Mulch goes deeper in more relevant colours and a land is still a drawn card as divisionbyzorro said. Being in blue just for Thought Scour is asking for trouble, especially with Birds rotating.

That's why you ignore green altogether. There is more to the blue than just those 2 cards. I'll post up my deck after dinner/football game.

EDIT: And again, I did mention that it's not a great deck ATM, right? But the issue isn't mana - it's looting, 100%.

 

[BlewHedgehog]

Mulch is ridiculous and has to be run in that deck. Aside from the obvious benefits, it often saves you from that awful situation where Faithless Looting has whiffed on a fattie a few times and you've almost killed yourself with the card disadvantage.

Edit: Ignore green?! And miss out on any kind of acceleration? The entire reason the deck is scary is because of the threat of turn 3 Elesh Norn or Griselbrand. Digging is great, but Mulch will sometimes gain you card advantage. Mind Sculpt also doesn't provide any of the filtering that Mulch or Looting does.

I do agree that Tracker's Instincts is just terrible. The only reason to play blue in this deck is Phantasmal Image if you're running a Solar Flare package. Given what you're trying to do, wouldn't a more control-oriented deck in that vein perform better?

 

[divisionbyzorro]

You're going to run green in Frites post rotation anyway because of Grisly Salvage.

 

[crimsonspider89]

Not to mention as well Jarad's Order. I really do not see much stopping Frites with all the G/B discard now.

 

[OnPoint]

Not to mention as well Jarad's Order. I really do not see much stopping Frites with all the G/B discard now.

Rest in Peace and Ground Seal are real cards, as is Tormnod's Crypt.

 

[Hex]

Not to mention as well Jarad's Order. I really do not see much stopping Frites with all the G/B discard now.

Frites loses its main power with Elesh Norn gone, as well as Sheoldred, Wurmcoil, the Titans ..it will need work.
Not to mention the pure volume of GY hate.

 

[crimsonspider89]

Agreed but if you have to sideboard/mainboard gy hate cause of Frites, it has done its job. And people forget the biggies from Avacyn Restored: Avacyn, the gw and rw angel, Griselbrand, and such.

Titans and the Praetors were broken.

 

[WanderingWind]

Frites loses its main power with Elesh Norn gone, as well as Sheoldred, Wurmcoil, the Titans ..it will need work.
Not to mention the pure volume of GY hate.

Which is why most of this is acadmeic anyway. A frites without Elesh is just not as strong and frankly, with the amount of graveyard hatred (thanks snapcater) it's not going to be viable moving forward right now.

Still, the blue variety was missing looting more than any thing else. Being able to cut through your own deck, find what you want and elixir it all back in made unburial rites connect much more than before, quicker than before.

 

[Negator]

From Twitter:

 

[divisionbyzorro]

Cute.

Also irrelevant.

 

[zethren]

But oh so fun for dat kitchen table jank.

Sign me up for a playset on the cheap.

Plus that has to be some amazing art on Foil copies.

 

[OnPoint]

A five turn clock for blue-white control.

Would be interesting if someone could make that work.

I wonder if someone could proliferate that to a win in Modern.

 

[Yeef]

That's actually pretty interesting. It's like a more fragile, but faster version of darksteel reactor. Obviously won't matter much for standard, but it's a decently obtainable alternate win condition in those colors for casual games.

 

[zethren]

A five turn clock for blue-white control.

Would be interesting if someone could make that work.

I wonder if someone could proliferate that to a win in Modern.

Maybe in a B/G deck with fog effects to stop combat damage and cards like Divine Deflection for whatever burn or direct damage comes your way?

 

[divisionbyzorro]

A UW or Esper deck can find any number of 5-turn clocks. The great thing about doing things honestly through combat is that when they find an answer, you still made progress to your goal.

 

[OnPoint]

Maybe in a B/G deck with fog effects to stop combat damage and cards like Divine Deflection for whatever burn or direct damage comes your way?

Oh my God.

Turbo Fog could be a real thing with this. Maybe.

Orim's Chant? Silence? Uh oh...

 

[Venfayth]

It's so easy to just .. remove D:

 

[divisionbyzorro]

Turbofog will never work competitively. Ever.

You can win a few FNMs here and there (and lose all your friends while you're at it) but it will never be a real deck in the metagame.

 

[Snowden's Secret]

I haven't played Magic since Ravnica and unfortunately had to sell off all my cards this time last year because times were rough (nothing like selling thousands of cards for $400) and I'm stoked for this expansion. Gonna blow so much dough on this block.

That filibuster card will be awesome for friends play.

 

[crimsonspider89]

Maybe run a four color defender deck? Using Axeborn Defender to ramp with other defenders out. Maybe. Who knows.

 

[OnPoint]

Turbofog will never work competitively. Ever.

You can win a few FNMs here and there (and lose all your friends while you're at it) but it will never be a real deck in the metagame.

If someone finds a way to Isochron Scepter-Silence combo that to a win, I will smile in your direction. But deep down, I know you're right.