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[Devolution]

She's the one I had my little argument with I talked about a few pages back. I didn't say her name though because so many seem to have something against her. Personally, I came out of our argument liking/respecting her a shit ton more. Hell though....she probably doesn't even remember what it was (I barely do) or who the heck I am.

Wait wait I think I remember you. You had a totally different av though and it was about how we're damned if we do, damned if we don't in fighting back when it comes to rapey situations or something?

Devo's passionate about certain things - but she makes herself a target because she's speaking for a group that's very under represented here, so that often makes her the only one calling out certain behaviour. If there were a lot more females on the board we'd get more responses from them and Devo wouldn't be the one appearing to be the aggressor so much.

As someone with sisters and GFs who have been leered at, ass-grabbed at clubs, been talked to in a disgusting manner or feeling threatened by certain men's attitudes and behaviour I'm glad someone is raising their voice about these things.

Thanks bruh =D.

 

[Opiate]

I know you only said hivemind once and you've since apologized, but GAF is simply not a hive mind. The only way I look at GAF as a hive mind is that it's a safe place. Sure we can disagree about politics, movies and videogames, but it's, at least in recent years, always been a safe place for many people as long as it doesn't devolve into personal attacks or stuff of that nature.

I've probably made it clear that in past threads that I live in the middle of nowhere. For example, with the trans thread you noted earlier, I don't look at at trans members pointing out that "ladyboy" might be offensive as a sign that GAF is subject to faux outrage or political correctness. I look at it as a chance to learn from people that I would never meet in my everyday life, yet have found a home here on GAF and I can learn from them. Posters for example like Ottoman Scribe or Devolution, two opposites ends of a spectrum if you will, don't exist in my world or, at least if they did, they would be ridiculed or attacked if they spoke their opinion. They'd probably try to tar and feather Ottoman where I live and Devo would probably be either laughed at or beaten if there were enough rednecks in the room.

That's the thing for me. GAF gives me an outlet to the outside world so to speak and strength to believe in my convictions. I was a coward in colllege when I was sporting my "Fight Racism" Hot Topic t-shirt and did jack shit to stick up for the gay kid at my summer movie theater job in between semesters who was constantly called the f-word.

FFS, I'm still a god damn coward to this day when I listened to a guy that was going to give out a peace award talk about how gay people were abominations. I don't know. I'm not the best poster and I've probably deserved to be banned a few times, but GAF at least is a place I can escape to where people are treated equally and we can just talk about shit without fear of that kind of stuff.

tl:dr

I love GAF.

Great post.

 

[Oblivion]

Two times!

I don't think anyone here hates me. I think I do annoy a couple.

Actually, I hate you. Quite a bit in fact.

But that's mostly due to racism.

 

[Vincent Alexander]

Wait wait I think I remember you. You had a totally different av though and it was about how we're damned if we do, damned if we don't in fighting back when it comes to rapey situations or something?

I have to sport this avatar for football season then back to Raziel.

I vaguely remember it as it was when I first started posting, but that brings back memories---definetely about rapey situations. I think the entire thread was about some dumbass police officer giving tips on how to not get raped. Could be wrong.

 

[Devolution]

I have to sport this avatar for football season then back to Raziel.

I vaguely remember it as it was when I first started posting, but that brings back memories---definetely about rapey situations. I think the entire thread was about some dumbass police officer giving tips on how to not get raped. Could be wrong.

Yup it was the "Avoid sexual assault by not dressing like a "slut" Says Toronto Cop" thread.

 

[Cyan]

Actually, I hate you. Quite a bit in fact.

But that's mostly due to racism.

Why we still got hate against monkeys?

 

[Foxix Von]

Never forget this day... The day we lost Blasty.

Hang in there pal. We're rooting for you.

 

[Vaporak]

This is complete and utter bullshit. I'd love to see just one actual example, because all I see are consistent assertions that Devo is NeoGAF's dark angel and no actual examples of her getting away with shit that I, for instance, wouldn't get away with. Show me just one, or stop trying to assert your magical worldview where Devo is the problem instead of all the people who revile her. Because I'm just not seeing it.

No need to jump to his view being "utter bullshit; It's not all in his head, Devo's self admitted to being banned once for posting aggressively.

 

[Visceir]

I thought phosphor112's posts in the creepershots thread were quite reasonable, or atleast I don't think they contained anything that would warrant a ban, but people (including Devo) kept on twisting his words and making it seem like he was saying way worse stuff than he actually did.

Now he is the one who is banned.

 

[noah111]

Just woke up (had a horrible bish dream). What'd I miss? Is it over? Am I alive for good?

 

[Devolution]

You're not even juniored. Congrats on being unscathed. You are the Tom Cruise (from War of the Worlds) of that thread.

 

[Neo Child]

i keep getting banned for making gay jokes even though they arent offending anyone cause i obv joking

(my last ban was from quoting a film - the film made a gay joke and i quoted it. thought that was a bit harsh)

 

[Moral Panic]

Wow, woke up to second round and still alive. Did we get an afterword in on the creep thread?

 

[Timedog]

This is the wrong way to think about the problem.

People's thought processes are shaped by society. Society is the gestalt of all the interactions you engage in and perceive. When people post sexist or racist stuff, it doesn't trouble me that they think that -- whatever, I know sexist and racist people exist -- but it troubles me that, by doing so, they are implicitly contributing to social norms which inculcate people in the belief that sexism and racism is acceptable, conventional, and unpunished. If you want to observe evidence for this process, all you have to do is look at the panoply of posts on GAF in which people seek societal approval for their actions or thoughts.

Posting about how that stuff is sexist and racist is an attempt to tilt the scale the other way and create a societal understanding that sexism and racism are unacceptable, unconventional, and will result in negative consequences -- and, also, to normalize the idea that speaking up about sexism and racism is a good thing to do, which if anything is an even less popular concept.

So it's not that I value the opinion of that stranger so much as that I perceive that they, and I, are both part of a society shaped by our statements and actions.

This great post got ignored.

 

[EVOL 100%]

Wow, woke up to second round and still alive. Did we get an afterword in on the creep thread?

Well, it's unstickied so I think it's over now.

 

[TUROK]

Whoa, I feel like I've missed out by not posting in this thread.

I haven't been here long, but my second ban was for telling someone that they were "incredibly dense." Seemed a little excessive to me.

 

[Sviatoslav]

You're not even juniored. Congrats on being unscathed. You are the Tom Cruise (from War of the Worlds) of that thread.

Nah, he's more like more like Tom Cruise's stupid son in War of the Worlds. He survived even when it made no sense.

 

[Devolution]

Nah, he's more like more like Tom Cruise's stupid son in War of the Worlds. He survived even when it made no sense.

Touché.

 

[Volimar]

This great post got ignored.

I missed that post, thanks for bringing it up. I agree with that, pigeon. I'll expand my own views on it to include this:

I really hate it when someone says something about an obviously horrible statement and someone replies something to the effect of "welcome to the internet" or posts the "You must be new here" willy wonka picture. Such replies don't just excuse those statements, they give a tacit protection of them in that they give the impression that these horrible statements are the norm, and the person reacting to them negatively is somehow the aberrant voice in the conversation. Just because it happens a lot doesn't mean we should just let them slide. We're part of the community as well, and we contribute to the norms just as much as the negative people do.

 

[noah111]

You're not even juniored. Congrats on being unscathed. You are the Tom Cruise (from War of the Worlds) of that thread.

Nah, he's more like more like Tom Cruise's stupid son in War of the Worlds. He survived even when it made no sense.

This thread is a safety valve that I think the forum needs, and I hope it stays that way - good or bad.

tl;dr - don't start no shit, won't be no shit

Rules to live by. I hope this thread doesn't start becoming a chat room or continued conversation from a locked threads topic, since that would probably get it closed. This thread is basically GAF's closure.

 

[Rentahamster]

I will say that in virtually every case Manos was banned, someone else was banned for insulting him back, so I'm not blind to the role others played into making him feel like he was backed into a corner. But I can assure you that he's never been banned for the opinion he had, just the way things went south subsequent to that.

The thing is, though, it's not just "someone else was banned for insulting him back". Lots of the posts he wrote, even relatively innocuous things, would be derided and belittled in a form of soft bullying by numerous posters seeking legitimacy and admiration from their ideological peers for scoring political points. This would often spill into belittling Manos himself, rather than his opinions. It wasn't just one against one ad hominem, it was more like one against dozens.

A hostile environment like that doesn't help one's sanity, I would imagine. Not that I'm justifying whatever aggressive, insulting, rude behavior Manos did to get banned. The point is, that future Manoses (and this is what I assume made Jaydubya snap too) can be prevented if this dogpile behavior is curbed somehow. Posters getting on your case day in and day out for the most petty of reasons over multiple years can take a toll. Is it fair? Probably not, but hey, that's what happens sometimes with free and public discourse. Personally, though, I think any sort of solution that tries to discourage dogpilie groupthink would probably be worse than the problem anyway.

 

[Rentahamster]

What happens when we all have photoreceptors in our eyes and it's as simple as blinking to take a 32MP shot and upload it to the net? Because we're getting there.

I brought this up multiple times in the thread. Nobody cared.

 

[Sviatoslav]

The thing is, though, it's not just "someone else was banned for insulting him back". Lots of the posts he wrote, even relatively innocuous things, would be derided and belittled in a form of soft bullying by numerous posters seeking legitimacy and admiration from their ideological peers for scoring political points. This would often spill into belittling Manos himself, rather than his opinions. It wasn't just one against one ad hominem, it was more like one against dozens.

A hostile environment like that doesn't help one's sanity, I would imagine. Not that I'm justifying whatever aggressive, insulting, rude behavior Manos did to get banned. The point is, that future Manoses (and this is what I assume made Jaydubya snap too) can be prevented if this dogpile behavior is curbed somehow. Posters getting on your case day in and day out for the most petty of reasons over multiple years can take a toll. Is it fair? Probably not, but hey, that's what happens sometimes with free and public discourse. Personally, though, I think any sort of solution that tries to discourage dogpilie groupthink would probably be worse than the problem anyway.

Just wanted to say this is a great post. I was trying to make this point about dogpiling on posters earlier in this thread but I couldn't be this eloquent since I was busy watching Sunday Night Football.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

Actually, I hate you. Quite a bit in fact.

But that's mostly due to racism.

Not that time I set up a camera in your moms toilet?

I figured that'd be the reason.

 

[Devolution]

Not that time I set up a camera in your moms toilet?

I figured that'd be the reason.

You love poo too much.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

You love poo too much.

There's a perfectly willing market for the genre.

And it's not like I'm not watching other forum members poo right now. For quality assurance of course.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

Interesting factoid.

Timedogs bathroom walls are lined with crushed velvet.

 

[Trent Strong]

On that topic, and some others? Absolutely.

If you are not going to call anyone out, why raise it? What purpose does it serve? And not just anyone, people who are aggressively stupid get called out. You need to get harder if you are afraid of a co worker beating you. Or get a new fucking job.

Yep, those fucking profanities, they mean a lot I think I'm pretty pleasant. I also think if someone is just misinformed I will provide information, but if someone is actively pursuing or supporting policies that hurt me and mine, I will let them know.

Yeah, I should start calling 300 pound dudes fucking idiots to their faces, and also quit my job because I'm not allowed to call my co-workers fucking idiots to their faces. This is the kind of sound, no hyperbole advice that you can only get from the internet.

 

[Log4Girlz]

Interesting factoid.

Timedogs bathroom walls are lined with crushed velvet.

I would have guessed pizza.

 

[Rentahamster]

I thought phosphor112's posts in the creepershots thread were quite reasonable, or atleast I don't think they contained anything that would warrant a ban, but people (including Devo) kept on twisting his words and making it seem like he was saying way worse stuff than he actually did.

Now he is the one who is banned.

I actually feel kinda sorry that phosphor is banned. I value his opinions about Muslim relations (especially in light of recent current events) since I don't get to interact with many practicing Muslims IRL.

GAF also seems like a place where he can seek and get support when shitty people in his real life give him gruff over his religion.

 

[SquiddyCracker]

Never forget this day... The day we lost Blasty.

To Blasty!

 

[Riposte]

Looks like I didn't get ban. Thought I was done for. Well now I can continue to silently mock people who get banned despite being much kinder than me.

 

[Ovid]

Damn... Blasty got banned too??

Damn..

More people got banned!?

Oh man, Blasty too? I guess he wasn't paranoid.

Haha...and Sentry made it out unscathed. He might have you on thin ice though.

 

[strafer]

Not Blasty.

 

[Tesseract]

internet peoples, i love you.

 

[Boss Doggie]

Hmmm this thread is warming up.

 

[marrec]

More people got banned!?

Oh man, Blasty too? I guess he wasn't paranoid.

Haha...and Sentry made it out unscathed. He might have you on thin ice though.

The guilt that Sentry is going to carry with him until his dying breath is his true punishment.

Blasty's blood doesn't wash off Sentry.

 

[Dead Man]

Yeah, I should start calling 300 pound dudes fucking idiots to their faces, and also quit my job because I'm not allowed to call my co-workers fucking idiots to their faces. This is the kind of sound, no hyperbole advice that you can only get from the internet.

No, you have misinterpreted my statement a bit, sorry, should have been clearer. If you are in a job where you are afraid of a co worker you should get a new job.

 

[Rentahamster]

If you are in a job where you are afraid of a co worker you should get a new job.

He's not afraid of his co-worker.

 

[Dead Man]

He's not afraid of his co-worker.

Okay.

Edit: Actually, not okay. He is. He may not live in fear or anything, but he said he would not say something due to worry about getting beaten, not out of courtesy. If he just didn't want to be rude, fine. But that is not what he said.

 

[Basileus777]

Being afraid to call someone a fucking idiot to their face is a bit different than being afraid of that person in normal circumstances. I'm not sure how having the barest shred of manners and sense and avoiding saying something like that to a coworker is being painted in a negative light...

 

[Dead Man]

Being afraid to call someone a fucking idiot to their face is a bit different than being afraid of that person in normal circumstances. I'm not sure how having the barest shred of manners and sense and avoiding saying something like that to a coworker is being painted in a negative manner...

Gah. Look. He has given his only reason for not saying that people are idiots as fear of losing his job (fair enough) or getting beaten up. I think the second is not a great situation to be in with a co worker. Maybe I misinterpreted what he meant, but if I worked with someone I was afraid of beating me up if I called out their stupidity I would be looking for another job. He never said it was manners. Manners enforced by threats of beatings are not manners, they are submission.

 

[jmdajr]

man we lost a lot of folks over the weekend.

 

[Mumei]

Yeah I'm sure it is because she's a woman, and has nothing at all to do with her manner of posting + the fact that if anyone else addressed fellow members like she does they'd be permed in a nanosecond.

I don't see you getting this same "hate" for being a female poster here. Nor shanshan, nor Cloudwalking, nor fiction, nor just about every other female poster. Hmmmmmmmm, I wonder why that is?

I don't think that her aggressiveness has nothing to do with it, but I think that her being a woman is the factor that makes this an issue. People frankly become hysterical when she is no more aggressive than her interlocutors. For instance, right now you are being as aggressive as she typically is, and in the same ways that she is aggressive (biting comments, sarcasm, and condescension). If she is being no more aggressive than, say, Dennis is, yet I see no one come to this topic to make thinly veiled comments about how 'certain people' are just too aggressive and intemperate, what am I to believe is actually the issue?

Or does marrec get the same hate she does? He is similarly aggressive and active in those threads; do you see people in NBA-GAF complaining about him and how he gets away with things? I, at least, do not see this.

 

[HamPster PamPster]

The guilt that Sentry is going to carry with him until his dying breath is his true punishment.

Blasty's blood doesn't wash off Sentry.

 

[Hazaro]

Surprised Panda bit it.

He plays advocate in most threads.

 

[WanderingWind]

Gah. Look. He has given his only reason for not saying that people are idiots as fear of losing his job (fair enough) or getting beaten up. I think the second is not a great situation to be in with a co worker. Maybe I misinterpreted what he meant, but if I worked with someone I was afraid of beating me up if I called out their stupidity I would be looking for another job. He never said it was manners. Manners enforced by threats of beatings are not manners, they are submission.

The point is this. Over the internet, it's real easy to assert things like "I call people fucking idiots to their face." In the real, adult world, this is the behavior of a person nobody wants to associate with, and yeah, it most certainly can lead to physical confrontations. It's cute to imagine yourself as William Badass, esquire, defender of self-evident truths, cutter of bullshit and wielder of a glorious mane of hair and a biting wit. In real life, you likely do not actually go around calling people "fucking idiots" because the end result would not be as consequence free as it is online.

 

[shanshan310]

Question, does Milton actually have a gaf account?

 

[Broder Salsa]

Question, does Milton actually have a gaf account?

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/member.php?u=76135

Guess that counts even if banned.

 

[Dead Man]

The point is this. Over the internet, it's real easy to assert things like "I call people fucking idiots to their face." In the real, adult world, this is the behavior of a person nobody wants to associate with, and yeah, it most certainly can lead to physical confrontations. It's cute to imagine yourself as William Badass, esquire, defender of self-evident truths, cutter of bullshit and wielder of a glorious mane of hair and a biting wit. In real life, you likely do not actually go around calling people "fucking idiots" because the end result would not be as consequence free as it is online.

Actually, I'm short, overweight, and balding. But yeah, mainly I do call people idiots if they are idiots. Maybe I do do it more diplomatically, but I don't not debate something just because I am not the biggest guy in the room. And it is hardly consequence free on GAF. I would be banned in short order if I went around doing that.

Look. The discussion started way back when it was asked if anyone call republicans names like they do on GAF. We have got way too caught up in my being aggressive about it or starting fights or something. Lets go back.

If I meet a Republican in real life, I don't call them a fucking idiot and tell them I hope they die. People do say things like that to Republicans on GAF though. No one could be as outraged in real life as some people are on GAF. They couldn't function as a normal human being if they were.

Speaking of outrage that may be exaggerated... Who calls for Republicans to die? I say to their face that they are a fucking idiot if they raise the topic of politics.

I said fucking idiot because Trent did. Would I actually use the words 'fucking idiot'? Depends on the situation. In the workplace? No. But I would certainly attack their position, and if they were imbeciles I would probably mock them gently. Better? Would I refrain from doing so because I am afraid of being beaten up? No, I don't work in that sort of of environment, and if I did I would be looking for another job. I might refrains from doing so because of a lack of job security, or out of courtesy.

After that of course a few other notable posters who are significantly close to the Republican position than I am threw a few questions, and I answered them. And here we are.

There was never any response about who had called for Republicans to die, either.